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Subaru Legacy/Outback

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Comments

  • zman3zman3 Member Posts: 857
    "Minneapolis.... Well, maybe that's the problem." Uh, yeah, whatever that means. :)

    When it snows here you can't drive more than 30mph due to all of the traffic that has been created over the last 10 years. Snow only adds to an already dreadful transportation issue.
  • plantzplantz Member Posts: 3
    I really appreciate all of you taking the time to share you experiences with me.

    I'm inclined to go with the GT. The money is not a big deal for me, but I am concerned about the environment, oil, etc. On the other hand, it's not as bad as what many people drive.

    I've never owned a Subaru. I'm drawn to the fact that it's different. A couple of other "different" cars I've owned: 1965 Saab (in late 60s) with the Monte Carlo two-stroke engine; 1972 Mazda RX2 with the rotary engine.

    Bob
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,756
    There you go. Now you know what it means. :P

    I feel for you, but you have to go where there's work. Darned cities, anyhow.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    Bob - CR's TSX took 9.2 seconds to reach 60mph, nine point two! Let's categorize that below "slower Hyundais".

    That's got to be extreme driver error -- the TSX is actually in the low 7 second range for 0-60 according to other car mags. Heck, my wife's *automatic* TSX is in the high 7 to low 8 second range according to my butt dyno... I used to time my manual-trans Prelude in the low 7 second range for 0-60, and the TSX is easily just as quick, probably better actually.

    Craig
  • jfljfl Member Posts: 1,396
    At a minimum I'd get the brakes checked. There's a huge variation in pad life. Some of us have gone 60k or more and others were replacing pads at 24k.

    I should probably check mine. 8~o

    Jim
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Craig - CR buys a car from the lots, not a potential "ringer" from the press pool. They don't abuse the tranny, so the result is more representative of real-world to a lot of folks.

    Plus, if you compare CR's gas mileage, the way CR drives, you should compare CR's acceleration, just to keep it apples to apples.

    So yes, CR's TSX was fuel efficient, but it was also slow. CR's Legacy was a lot less efficient but it was also a lot quicker.

    Reasonable trade-off if you ask me.

    -juice
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    I don't buy it (the CR numbers that is). Our TSX is fast in everyday driving (without abuse) *and* gets 28-34mpg on a regular basis.

    I also don't abuse my Outback XT. It is faster than the TSX, but not 3 seconds to 60 faster. And it gets 19-23mpg on a regular basis.

    Knowing my OB XT 5EAT gets to 60 in the high 6 second range, my butt dyno is confirming the TSX 5AT is doing it in the high 7 to low 8 second range.

    So comparing my experiences with both cars, I still think their TSX 9.2sec 0-60 time is way out of line.

    Craig
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Their 0-60 times with all cars they test are lower than those found in car rags. They test more as how the average owner might drive, not for the absolute best numbers possible.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    For some reason CR gets low numbers for Honda's 4 bangers. Maybe they test them with weight inside, and the relatively low torque figures penalizes them more than other manufacturers?

    I don't know. Their CR-V took something like 10.5 seconds. That's all day long.

    Their Forester X was about even with that TSX. I wonder if they even floor it? Forester's old throttle was very sensitive, it's now a little more linear.

    -juice
  • ozman62ozman62 Member Posts: 229
    My guess would be that you picked up a small rock between the rotor and the rotor cover on the backside. I've had this 'problem' a couple of times on my Forester, it seems to occur more often when there's some snow on the ground, likely because that's when the city starts 'sanding' the roads. Well, it's not really sand. The diagnosis and fix is pretty simple.
    HTH, Owen
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    Agree with Bob on this one. Some years ago they addressed it in answering a reader letter. The car mags do 6k rpm clutch drops, and automatic max converter stall speed launches. CR does a 'hit the gas' type launch, more in line with what people who actually want their car to last more than a week without tranny replacement do.

    Steve
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,756
    I think you're right, Owen. I blind-swiped along the outside of the pads yesterday when my wife dropped me off to work and she said she didn't have any more problem with the noise for the rest of the day. I did not have any problems today yet, either. I think, however, that I will stop and grab a new set of pads for fronts and backs just to have them on hand should I need to do a replacement in a hurry. I have 90K on my rears thus far..... they're probably getting close. ;-)

    Thanks for the feedback, folks!
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    10k good luck, you might want to bump up closer to 15k.

    -mike
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    Look for Subarus 5+ years old with probably over 60,000 miles. All the low end models of that vintage will be in the $10K ballpark or lower.

    Craig
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    For $10k I'd buy a '99 Forester L or S, in decent shape, with about 60k miles.

    To be honest Subies don't depreciate much, so I'd stretch the budget a bit and look for a new Outback Sport, maybe $16k or so. A TS wagon if you can only go to around $15k.

    Look at it this way - 5 year powertrain warranty, so a 5 year loan is reasonable.

    -juice
  • bat1161bat1161 Member Posts: 1,784
    Also, I beleive Subaru did not have side curtains until only a couple of years ago, and then on the higher end models only.

    Mark
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Actually the curtains only came this year, 2005. Before that they had side airbags to protect the torso.

    Forester is the exception in that the side air bags also protect the head. It works well enough to earn it a Good rating from IIHS, which ironically is higher than the Legacy with the curtains.

    -juice
  • steine13steine13 Member Posts: 2,818
    "Look for Subarus 5+ years old with probably over 60,000 miles. All the low end models of that vintage will be in the $10K ballpark or lower.

    Craig "

    Good post. Think about it for 5 minutes. You'll find a new one bought near invoice to be a better deal in the long run...

    That's just the market on these cars... my personal preference is $6k cars, buy for cash, forego collision insurance to save money. I have given up looking for $6k Subies. 100k+, 8 years old, no thanks.

    It's like the $5k 4x4 pickup... everybody wants one.

    -Mathias
  • prigglypriggly Member Posts: 642
    Does anyone know if noise/vibration/harshness have been reduced in the '05 model compared to the '04? Has the acceleration been improved and anyone have a 0-60 time? Any known issues with the six cylinder engine?

    Thanks.
  • reblack_jrreblack_jr Member Posts: 57
    Looking for ideas on replacement tires for the OEM Wilderness tires. I see discussions on Bridgestone RE... Turanzas, BF Goodrich T/A V, Michelins Pilot Sport A/S, Pilot H4s, A4s, and MXV4s.
    Any new experience will be appreciated, thanks!
    Bob
  • 63corvette63corvette Member Posts: 51
    Question: Does anybody have any actual timed figures for the STOCK base 2.5L Outback (manual) to 60 mph, or in the quarter mile. I know this isn't the Z06 forum, but some of you guys seem pretty performance oriented, and I just bought a base 2.5, 5spd Outback, and would like to understand it's real world performance parameters. Why did I buy the base if I am into performance? $17,340.00 brank new, that's why.I think the guy (above) who is looking for a used $10,000 Subaru would be much better off economically, to buy a Subaru Outback brand new for $17,000.

    Thanks
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    If you're after comfort, definitely go for the Turanzas. Stay away from the MXV4 -- they are noisy and wear quickly. Pilot Sport A/S is great if you place more emphasis on handling.

    Craig
  • wired1wired1 Member Posts: 45
    Nice Outback/Legacy reviews in the 10-24-04 New York Times.....
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yes, the '05s are more refined and ride more quietly. Honestly the old H6 was already very quiet (you couldn't hear it idle though you might have felt it).

    Given it gained 38hp and lost about 180 lbs, yes, I'm sure it's quicker. Gearing is same as before.

    Ball park I'd say about 0-60 in the 7s for the H6, 6s for the turbo automatic, high 5s for the turbo MT5.

    The base 2.5i Outback should be in the 8s.

    C&D tested a 5 speed Legacy it took 8.8s, but that was the old model. The new ones are lighter and have 3 more hp, not a huge difference but enough that you expect to knock off a few tenths. 8.5 seconds should be easy to obtain.

    -juice
  • 63corvette63corvette Member Posts: 51
    Thanks juice. Next question. Top speed? Mine runs to 5200rpm and then just stays there. I calculate that's about 113mph? Does anyone have higher figures on a 2.5L base Outback? 3600miles now, so I assume it is "broken in" about as much as it will get?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I read 109 mph or something like that for the old Forester, faster than you could ever safely drive on any US public road.

    The turbo is close to 130 mph but I wouldn't want to try to verify that.

    Any of them will break 100 easily, so cruising along at 80 or so should in a 75 zone to keep up with traffic should be a breeze, especially with any of the turbos.

    -juice
  • 63corvette63corvette Member Posts: 51
    Thanks for the reply juice.Um......ever driven in Montana?
  • jay_24jay_24 Member Posts: 536
    I believe I-90 and I-94 in Montana rank in the top ten for most deadly highways. Probably due to the thought you can go fast and the fact there are lots of critters trying to cross the roads.

    We counted over 45 deer in one night of driving Montata roads. And those were just the ones we saw on/near the road.

    My Outback wagon (H4) can hold 75 without problem and still has enough to pass easily. So probably more than fast enough to be safe.

    --jay
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    No, I wish!

    I guess if the roads are straight almost any car would be stable. The Legacy GT would probably be most comfortable at those high speeds since it's lower and has a longer wheelbase.

    Also, a Forester at that speed would produce a lot of drag and mileage would be lousy. True for any SUV really.

    -juice
  • beanboybeanboy Member Posts: 442
    There are certain spots, especially in the southwest, that have some amazing high-speed roads. Looking forward getting the GT out there to stretch her legs. By the time I take her across country, hopefully there will be some real-world data about high speed stability and any mods needs to hunker the car down. That, plus that pesky 130 mph limiter. Thinking true top speed is in the 140+ range.

    Also looking forward to heading into the mountains and not experiencing such a drastic performance drop.

    -B
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Dunno, at 130mph if you even touch the brakes the brake fluid would probably boil instantly. I can't imagine you could stop the car safely if an animal was in the middle of the road.

    -juice
  • krzysskrzyss Member Posts: 849
    (and it does) it should be able to stop at least once from max speed.
    Nothing prevents you from shipping car to Germany and trying yourself. If Legacy cannot brake from 130 governed then its governed speed is too high ;-)

    Krzys
  • 63corvette63corvette Member Posts: 51
    I concur:-)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I wouldn't want to be the first to find out.

    The GT, at least, has nice, big rotors. I wouldn't want to try that in an Outback XT, which is heavier and has smaller rotors.

    -juice
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    The only advantage to those big rotors is resistance to brake fade. So for repeated stops, I would pick the Legacy GT, but for general purpose braking power, both are more than adequate at speed. If they have enough oomph to invoke ABS, the brakes are doing their job.

    CRaig
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    The brake fluid will only boil if you don't flush it on a yearly or timely fashion.

    I repeatedly stop from 110-120mph say 30 times in a 30 minute session w/o issue in my '94 legacy turbo.

    -mike
  • briguybriguy Member Posts: 1
    I also am trying to decide wether I really need the 6cyl or if the 4 cyl will be just fine. I will be moving back to the cascades in about a year and will need to be able to smoothly get over the passes without to much lag. Will the 4 cyl make it in your opinion?

    Lynn
  • krzysskrzyss Member Posts: 849
    depends less on altitude. Turbo should be better (power wise) for mountains.

    Krzys
  • babe915babe915 Member Posts: 34
    If anyone wants the homelink system for your
     OBW its available as a combo with the dimming rear view mirror/compass. It will replace the present mirror. the 1st dealer i priced a 05 ob
    said it was not an option but saw it on subaru web
    site and 2nd dealer that i did by car from odered
    it in and will replace it for the existing mirror
  • kops1kops1 Member Posts: 2
    I have a 2001 OBW with 65k miles and own outright. I have been offered $9,500 for a trade in which is based on Galves (which is a service that most dealers use to value trade-ins) and includes $500 additional for dealer installed leather. A fairly local dealer has approx. 50 2004 OBW (all with cold weather package) with mileage ranging from 5k to 20k with prices from $17k to $19k. Apparently, the dealership purchased a bunch of cars that were rentals in Utah used by vacationers during the ski season. My car is due for a tune up, timing belt change, etc (according to dealer) which runs appox $800. I drive approx. 15k miles per year. Does it make sense to trade in for the 04 or can I feel comfortable that my car will take me well over 100k miles without problems. Thanks for your assistance.
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    Follow the maintenance schedule in the owners manual, don't follow the dealer's advice or else you will pay too much for servicing (they always try to pad it for profit). Timing belt comes much later than 65K, I think it's 100K...

    Craig
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    In my opinion, no, it's not worth it.

    Your car is yours, you know the exact history. The cost is zero. $800 is maintenance is less than two new car payments.

    The 2004 is just a used (abused?) rental car and who knows what the history includes. At least get a car fax and ask for service receipts for that particular car.

    -juice
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    Wait a few more years and get a "new" Outback. The 2004 models are little changed compared to your 01. They all came with the cold weather package, by the way.

    If you really want a new car, an 05 is a better choice. Otherwise, your 01 has a lot of life left in it and there's nothing compelling about the 04 models in my opinion (putting myself in your shoes). The 01 should go well past 100K without major problems.

    Craig
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,756
    Unless you're itching for a different (yet the same) vehicle, I say keep your 01. This, however, coming from someone who doesn't mind investing in a little maintenance. My car, a '96 OBW, was most definitely abused prior to my purhase of it in Aug 2000. I now have 173K on it and I would estimate that I've spent about $2500 in maintenance - up that number to about 6-7K if I would have had a dealer do the same maint. I guess I will be ready for something new after I break 200K (another year? Hopefully 2.....).

    So, if you've taken good care of your car, you should probably keep it until you come across "the one" rather than just taking the best offer. You might not get as much for your trade-in 3 years down the road, but the overall savings should better than offset it.

    Regarding the timing belt, I replaced my first one at 83K right after I bought the car, and I have another belt waiting for me to slap it in when I tear down the front end to replace the water pump gasket. When I pulled the engine out last summer (July 03) to replace some seals and gaskets, the belt had just over 60K on it and was still as spunky as ever - it showed no signs of any wear whatsoever. I agree with Craig - follow mfg's recommendations unless you are driving under extreme conditions (cold/heat). my.subaru.com has the manuals....

    Good luck!
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • sdesde Member Posts: 42
    Please excuse this very basic question... not only am I new to the Outback, but I've never owned a car before! (I've been a NYC dweller for 20 years, now moving to the 'burbs.)

    I like the goodies in the 2005 Outback 2.5 XT, but the recent New York Times review of the Outback says: "The XT, GT and 3.0 R engines require premium fuel." When my wife read this, she said there's no way she'd agree to an XT (and now I'm an unhappy camper).

    Is premium fuel truly *required* in the XT, or merely recommended? If we opt to put regular fuel in the XT, what would we see? Decreased mileage? Decreased performance? Both? Presumably, we can't damage the engine by putting in a lower-grade fuel, right? (I told you I'm a newbie...)

    Any info would be greatly appreciated... thanks so much!
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Most vehicles will adapt to the lower grade fuel as the computer will sense the difference. What you will most likely get is what you mentioned: poor performance and decreased fuel economy.

    Present it to her in this light: 15 gallons per week (or whatever your use is) times the typical $0.20 extra for premium works out to about $3 extra per week. It's not a killer.
  • sdesde Member Posts: 42
    >Most vehicles will adapt to the lower grade fuel as the computer will sense the difference. What you will most likely get is what you mentioned: poor performance and decreased fuel economy.<

    Wow. I see from the XT specs that it already gets lower mileage than the non-XT, and presumably, that's with premium fuel. So with regular fuel, the XT would do even worse.

    When you say that the car will "adapt" to the lower-grade fuel, over what period of time does this adaptation occur? (Once again, sorry for being a simpleton.) Suppose we routinely put regular fuel in the car, and then we decide to set off on a 300-mile trip. If we fill it with premium before we leave, are you saying that we won't realize the benefits of the better fuel, because the car will be "used to" the lower-grade fuel?
  • grove4grove4 Member Posts: 95
    I dont know, but if your staying in the northeast and all wheel drive is one of the goodies you talked about, it will be hard to beat the subaru for fuel mileage.I cant think of anything with awd that gets better mileage with awd.You could also get the base 4cyl.Probobly in the next few years we will see more hybrids with better performance and fuel economy.Right now though its really the mpg that makes a significant difference not so much the premium.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Turbos are force-feeding air and have a much higher effective compression ratio than normally aspirated cars. It won't be happy with regular.

    Even the H6 is tuned for premium fuel. It will retard the timing and try to compensate, but it will lose power and perhaps even a little efficiency, so it may not even save you money in the end.

    If fuel effieincy is important to her, the base engine is plenty adequate and returns 23/38 mpg. Get a Legacy wagon and you get 23/30 mpg. Those would be the best choices for someone looking to minimize fuel costs.

    -juice
  • jopopsyjopopsy Member Posts: 65
    I know there are a lot off cross posters/lurkers on this and the CR-V board.

    Will the Subie hold up as well or longer then the Honda?

    I find the 05 CR-V really addressed a lot of issues (fires notwithstanding) and deficiencies it had when compared to the Subie.

    ????

    Jopopsy
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