Subaru Legacy/Outback

ebony5 · July 2005

While gassing up the other day I noticed somebody adding Lucas Upper Cylinder Lubricant and Fuel Injector Cleaner to his gas. I asked him what it was and how he liked it. His reply was that it was really good stuff, that helped both the mileage and the long term care of the engine. I have a '96 OBW with about 79,000 miles on it. I can hear(and have heard forever) the well known piston slap but the engine seems to be running fine. My concern is that with the potential for head gasket problems and the fact that this is a 10 year old boxer engine with 79,000 K -Could adding this additive cause any problems?- should I just leave well enough alone. I take really good care of this car and want it to last as long as possible and if this could increase mileage as well as help the engine I would use it , but if there is a potential downside I would do without. Any advice/feedback concerning this or a similar product would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

xwesx · July 2005

At somebody's suggestion (all these things blend together after a while), I tried "Sea Foam" engine/fuel system cleaner to my car on Friday before heading out for a trip from which I returned last night. I replaced the fuel filter (had about 42K on it) just prior to filling up the next morning and adding the Seafoam. Before doing either, the car hesitated/pinged slightly under heavy accelleration, but for the most part behaved just fine. After replacing the fuel filter and on my way to the fueling station, the car did not seem to hesitate, but it still pinged a little. After adding the Seafoam (and I mean real quick afterward! - by the time I had made it to the hills out of town (about 10 miles), there was no ping), the ping was gone, and the responsiveness of the car is quite a bit better. Supposedly, you can direct-inject it into the intake manifold to clean up the valves, etc., and I may try that as well. I was glad to spend the $6.50 on the can of product and I think it worked much better than the Chevron Techron fuel injector cleaner I had used in the past.

If you have not used a cleaner in the system to this point, I would recommend it. It absolutely should not harm the system; at worst it will make no noticable difference and at best will even help.

187K (with some change) and counting!

andyg0404 · July 2005

Hi,

I've just purchased a 1998 Subaru Outback legacy wagon. It has 111,000 miles on it and appears to have been kept in good working order. I got in the car this morning and turned the key and absolutely nothing happened while the "check engine" light came on. When I say nothing happened, the starter didn't click, nor the engine engage. It was like turning the key to open a door. I tried several times and then the car started up fine and there was no "check engine" message. I looked in the manual and this particular situation wasn't dealt with.
I'm hoping someone can give me an indication of what the problem is. I'd hate to be sitting out in the middle of nowhere with a car that doesn't start.

Thanks for your time.
Regards,

Andy Ginsberg

garandman · July 2005

Hey everybody, I'm just about ready to do the 90K service for my 98GT wagon and I was wondering if anybody had this service performed in the denver metro area and how much did they pay for it. Also, is there a list of things that need to be done for this service so that I know I'm not getting charged for something I don't need?

Best thing to do to find a mechanic is to go to the "mechanX files" at the Car Talk section of cars.com. note that a lot of foreign car garages work on Subarus but don't necessarily note it there.

Depends on how long you plan to keep it. Some folks change the seals in the front of the engine and replace the O ring in the oil pump, since they're both prone to failure. Others even change the cam belt at 90K instead of waiting. But most people just do the routine service. You can find what is suggested here:
http://www.cars101.com/subaru/subaru_maintenance.html

rbyrd · July 2005

Andy, that happened to my wife's '96' on several occasions. It was a '96' Legacy LSi with the 2.5 motor. It was ages ago and the miles were few, maybe 30 or 40 K. It turned out to be a relay ? under the hood. Darned if I can remember which one or where exactly that it was. I do remember that she had to lift the hood and wiggle something and it would start. We finally got it to act up while at our mechanic's garage. He fixed it and we never had another episode. One other thing weird about our LSi was that if the alarm was activated the only way to turn it off was to open the trunk with a key.
If I can get our mechanic to remember what it was he replaced, I post.

Dick in Ohio

jeffmc · July 2005

Andy,

First off, congrats on your Outback. I've got a '91 Legacy (233k miles) and an '04 Outback (18k).

Sounds exactly like a situation a co-worker of mine had with her '03 Forester. You may have done this, but the first thing I'd do is (if it's an automatic trans) move the shifter out of park and then back into park. It may look like it's in park, but may not quite be, or perhaps that sensor in the shifter is off just a bit. If the car thinks it's not quite in park (or not in neutral) it won't start, for safety reasons. Not sure how familiar you are with Subarus, but in order to move the shifter without the engine running you need to have your foot on the brake and the key turned to allow accessory power (when you're twisting, the first stop's for the radio, the next stop's for accessories, and then the ignition).

First time something similar happened to me I panicked, but eventually noticed I had left it in drive when I shut the car off the previous night.

I don't think the check engine light is meaningful unless the engine has been running for a few minutes and it stays on... it may have just been illumated because the key was turned enough to allow accessory power, lighting your dash indicators.

Or it could be a relay like Dick said.

My 2 cents.

-Jeff

skinsfan33 · July 2005

YES! A bug shield will hurt your gas mileage. The only question is how much. I used to have a ranger and my bug spoiler sapped 2mpg on the highway. I found this out on a cross country trip. I removed my bug shield and my mileage went from 22 mpg to 24. I put it back on and the truck went back to 22 mpg. Took it off and it went right back to 24 mpg. :surprise:

I get only 24 mpg from my 1998 2.5 legacy Outback. Underinflated tires have got me before. I have tried changing my airfilter to a K&N and will soon remove the cross bars on my roofrack. I am thinking about changing spark plugs and increasing the gap to about .50-.55. Also, I would like to know if anyone has made exhaust changes and do they help? :confuse:

andyg0404 · July 2005

Thanks for your time and help Dick and if your mechanic remembers the part he replaced that would be great.

Andy

andyg0404 · July 2005

Thanks Jeff. I confess to being remarkably nonplussed when absolutely nothing happened. Mine is a five speed and it's possible that I didn't have the clutch depressed. I've had the Subaru for two weeks after owning a Honda Civic Wagon for 19 years. I could have done without all the bells and whistles and automatic doodads on the car but as my brother pointed out, they don't make cars any more the way I would have liked. He suggested that I buy a Model T.

Thanks again.

Andy

xwesx · July 2005

LOL You and me both!

lauridsd · July 2005

Hey all,

I just bought a 2005 Legacy 2.5i sedan this week, and am very happy so far.

However, I'd love to replace the ash tray with a spring loaded coin holder.

This is, of course, difficult due to the small size and specific shape of the existing ash tray.

Anyone know of an after market coin holder that is small enough to work in this capacity? I am not afraid of using a Dremel on it to get it to fit either, so "close" might be good enough....maybe.

Anyone?

jeffmc · July 2005

No suggestions on an aftermarket option, but would it be easier just to modify the ashtray?

lauridsd · July 2005

That might work. I just need the guts from a few cheapo coin holders I can destroy.

If worse came to worse, I suppose I could always replace the ash tray if I wreck it.

ameadows · July 2005

I apologize if this question has already been answered. I am looking to replace the Firestone Wilderness tires in my Outback. The tire size is 225/60R16. I live in Colorado. So I am looking for all-weather tires. Something that is not too expensive nor too cheap. Good Quality. Decent Price. Any suggestions would be very appreciated?? Is it also better to purchase the tires online?

Thanks

PF_Flyer · July 2005

You might also ask over in the Tires, tires, tires discussion.

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The Mazda Mania Chat is on tonight. The chat room opens at 8:45PM ET Hope to see YOU there! Check out the schedule

ateixeira · July 2005

CR rated the Falken Ziex 512 very highly, and it comes in that size. I have a set in a different size on my Miata and I am very pleased with them, plus they were priced right.

-juice

dano50 · July 2005

I put Bridgestone Turanza LS-H tires on my 02 Bean, best tires I've ever had. Quiet, smooth, good handling. Have 10,000 miles on them. Don't know about handling in snow, but they have been great in heavy rain.

Paid $600 out the door in North Carolina

ebony5 · July 2005

I put Yokahama Aegis LS's on my '96 OBW-The ride is a bit harsh but everything else is fine-the Avids ride may be a bit smoother but they are not as highly rated for rain and snow . At any rate I think Yokahama makes a fine tire and the prices cannot be beat. I had the service manager at the Subaru dealership get the tires for me and I used Subaru bucks to defray some of the expense. When I called Tirerack they recommended the Avid over the Aegis saying with AWD I did not need the added snow traction but I go up to the Catskill Moutains in the winter so went the more cautious route. There are alot of tires out there and it depends what your criteria is. How much you want to spend,driving conditions, tread life, etc. If you got to tirerack.com you can research the tires and read other peoples comments on them. Good luck

rubysubyob · July 2005

I have a similar question regarding replacement tires ('00). Based on your replies and tirerack.com, I've narrowed it down to BFGoodrich Traction T/A, Bridgestone Turanza or Potenza, and Michelin Pilot or Hydroegdge (though still taking recommendations). However, I'm not quite sure whether I need T-rated or H-rated tires. It seems that T-rated tires are not recommended for Outbacks (?), though my last pair of H-rated tires are done after 20,000 miles. I'm not quite sure where I'll be driving in the coming year, so I'm just looking for the best value all around. Clarification on T vs. H would be much appreciated!
Thanks.

fibber2 · July 2005

H rated tires are a must.... The mfgr determines the tire grade based on the sidewall stiffness, load rating, etc. The OBW is a heavy vehicle for it's class, and going with T's could put you in the danger zone if they were to become underinflated even just a little bit.

According to an article I saw in a trade publication, H could become the minimum grade if proposed new govt testing regulations were to go into effect. T & S just don't have the temp shedding ability, and delaminate too easily.

Steve

kens · July 2005

Steve's right -- don't go to a lower rated tire simply based on price. Many people make the mistake of chosing the sidewall stiffness based on how fast they normally drive -- "I only drive at the speed limit so all I need are S rated tires". The sidewall stiffness also plays a part in the tire's ability to safetly maintain a load. At a minimum, you want the same speed rating as the OE tires.

Take a look at the UTQG of the tire next: the number on the sidewall that reads something like 400/A/B. The first number denotes the manufacturer's treadwear rating. The higher the number, the longer the treadlife compared to a "test" tire.

http://www.tireguides.com/tip4.html

My favorite H-rated all season tires were the Dunlop SP5000s. Reasonable price, good treadwear, very good traction for an all-seaon.

Ken

ateixeira · July 2005

Even though these are rated by the tire makers themselves, look at the two letters. The first is a wet braking rating, AA, A, B, or C. Get a grippy tire if you see a lot of rain (Seattle = get AA).

The second number is heat resistance. What you'll find is generally S-rated tires only get a B here, while H- and better usually get an A.

That might be an issue when tires are underinflated or when you have a heavy load and go long distances. Tires get very hot, imagine you're driving in Arizona far from any service station and hit a pothole and lose some air, so you're now with 20psi in the tires.

Now, do you want an H-rated tire, or S-?

-juice

xwesx · August 2005

Oh, darn it! I'm always bad with these...... um..... an S? No! Wait! H. Doh! I'm so nervous, what was the question again? :P

ateixeira · August 2005

Can I buy a vowel?

-juice

njswamplands · August 2005

rbyrd · August 2005

I have a 'whining' noise coming out of the dash area at 55 -56 mph. It's reminds me of the old speedometer cable when it cried for oil. (that was a long time ago) It only happens occasionally except for today my wife said it was constant. :mad: Anybody else have this problem or have you heard of it and a possible cure ?
Thanks in advance

Dick

mikenvanna · August 2005

I have a 99 Outback Wagon and the clutch pedal has just started sticking and there is a delay beofre it disengages. I have also started noticing that when it does this, it is hard to get it into gear. I haven't had any major problems so far and just recently returned from a 2000+mile road trip, but this problem concerns me. Any suggestions?

fibber2 · August 2005

Ah, the internet is a wonderful thing!

Don't ask me why, but I remembered reading this last year, and was able to find it this morning for you. I assume that when they say "Legacy" in the tech article, that the clutch cylinder components are probably identical to those used on the Outback. With a few exceptions, most parts are...

This sounds pretty much what you describe:

http://endwrench.com/images/pdfs/ClutchInfoWin04.pdf

Good luck,

Steve

ebony5 · August 2005

Can the rear seat in the '96 OBW be folded down flat? It seems when folding down the seat the bottom cannot be moved to allow a level cargo area. I looked to see if there was any way to release the bottom of the seat so the back could lie flat but could not find any. Thanks

20llbean · August 2005

I took my 2001 outback H6 on the beach last week while on vacation. Drove out 4 times and all was well with the vehicle till the final day. It was hot and the sand was a very fine grain. Several vehicles were stuck and as luck would have it, in trying to drive around the other vehicles, I got stuck also. I took more air out of the tires (down to 20 psi) and a simple push while in reverse got me out but in the process, the sand had compacted under the vehicle and resulted in the engine under cover getting broken. I had to pull part of it off as it was dragging under the car. Question: does anyone know the part number of the under cover and does anyone know of a more stronger under cover available for 2001 outbacks? Thanks!

xwesx · August 2005

Yes, the '96 does fold flat and yes, the bottom cushion must come up before the seat backs are folded down. If you thrust your hand between the bottom and rear cushions to the left of the rear passenger side seatbelt latch and feel around, there should be a strap that you can pull out between the cushions. Just give it a tug and the whole seat should lift up and forward on hinges mounted on the front of the seat bottom.

From another perspective: If you sit down in the center rear seating position and latch yourself in with the provided lap belt, the "strap" mentioned above should be buried between the cushions just to the right of the latch point.

I hope that helps!

-Wes-

ebony5 · August 2005

Thanks Wes. I thought if anyone would reply it would be you. Whenever I see one of your postings I pay particular attention knowing we have the same year vehicle, and you seem to be knowagable. I have printed out your directions and will check it out tomorrow if I have the time.

xwesx · August 2005

Haha... not a problem. But, I hope that yours is aging a little more gracefully than mine. With as many other things as I have going on, being 'knowledgable' about my car isn't because it is a hobby!

Kirstie_H · August 2005

Don't forget tonight's member-to-member chat - it's open mic night, so come and discuss whatever's on your mind.

6-7pm PT/9-10pm ET. Drop by for live chat with other members. Hope you can join us!

kirstie_h

orangelebaron · August 2005

I just put coins in the ash tray. Simple enough.
Ain't no way anyone's gonna smoke (tobacco) in my Outback anyway! :shades:

Now if someone could come up with an aftermarket replacement for the whole console that would be good. The seat heater switches should go somewhere else, the cup holders moved forward, and the storage compartment made bigger and deeper and bilevel...like on Camry's and Accords.

joyride21 · August 2005

im a mechanic, just bought a 00 outback from a customer that just had the head gaskets replaces, is there any one who knows a place that will chip it, please let me know.

thanks

joyride21 · August 2005

you should check out message #10766

mruebusch · August 2005

Does anyone know if there is an adapter so that i may use my MP3 player in my 05 legacy gt limited

20llbean · August 2005

Joyride21: Thanks, I will check into the metal plates some more.

ateixeira · August 2005

Where's paisan? I think he fabricates a metal skid plate that fits the Outback. Anyone have the link to that site?

-juice

joyride21 · August 2005

you can also try scorpionsubaru.com they have some cool stuff too

ateixeira · August 2005

Found a link for you, look under Rally Armor:

http://azpinstalls.com/

Tell mike juice sent ya, he's also on these boards as "paisan".

-juice

bat1161 · August 2005

Rich,

I had the same problem the first time I took my 2000 OBW through the Pine Barrens with Paisan and others. After that I tracked down the skid plates, and have had no problem since. Mike does make it now for the OB (he didn't at the time). The skidplates also come in handy for protecting the underside while driving through the streets of NY

Mark

K9Leader · August 2005

Try this: http://www.shoptronics.com/baqmp3tofmra.html

or this: http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000513047866/

I have this one and it works reasonably well for under $30 -- I got mine at Costco for about $25. Lets me put MP3s onto a USB drive or plug any device into it and then broadcast to the FM. Here is the manufacturer's page: http://www.vr-3.com/vr3_fmmod.html

Good luck!

--K9Leader

20llbean · August 2005

Mark,

Thanks for the advice and recommendation. The standard cover isn't much for hard off road duty. One other thing, I installed the rear shift protector on the OB back in 2001. After seeing a jeep that run over a large piece of wood buried in the sand and had the shift casing dented but somewhat OK, the rear protector is a must have.

jimmereeno · August 2005

Hello.
I was hoping to get some opinions on the price of a 1998 Outback Wagon before I write the check.

It's the standard model (not the Limited) with a few extras (CD, "tweeter upgrade", seat warmers, keyless entry). It has 35K miles. It's red/maroon.

This is through Carter Subaru here in Seattle, and the car has gone through their standard checklist... with minor repairs being done.

Our agreed-price is $16,300. Any thoughts? Should prices be going down now that the 2002s are going to be on their lot within the next couple weeks?

Thanks.

bat1161 · August 2005

I agree with you. I had also installed the rear diffy protector. One side benefit to the rear protector is it makes an excellent jacking point. If Subaru is trying to show the OB as an SUV/Crossover, I have always felt that skidplates, both front and back, should be standard.

Mark

20llbean · August 2005

Agree. Driving on a beach, even in fairly soft sand that doesn't provide good base or traction, I consider normal off-road activity for the OB. In the snow, this vehicle has been outstanding in snow up to 14 inches (most we have had in tri-state area since I owned the car). A key point out this experience is that the OB was able to get out while some other vehicles unfortunately required the tow trucks.
But stronger plates should be standard or at least offered as an option. Now serious off-road or rally driving (something I don't plan to do in the OB) is a different set of requirements on the car.

I quess that brings a question to mind: has anyone on this board taken a standard/stock OB to an rally course?

Rich

famof3kids · September 2005

I have the bug shield on my 03 Legacy wagon (auto). I just checked and I get 27MPG if I putter around like a slow poke. If I push it I get 22MPG.

jay_24 · September 2005

Not enought to notice. I had one on my 01 Outback for about 2 years. Then the little rubber feet that held it off the hood kept falling off and the shield started rubbing on the hood. (nasty mark on the paint

) so off it came. still get about 27mpg (90% highway miles contant 65mph or so

).

In town (stop/go) and cold temps bring my mileage down. Winter (below 20F) I get about 23.

--jay

Subaru Legacy/Outback

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