Subaru Legacy/Outback

viktoria_r · May 2001

i just did not realize that crossbars will be sold separately from rack itself. oh, well, not a big deal. the car still should come under 20K. the CD option is kind of pricey, though. like i said, i've always driven 6 and 8 cyl cars. will this car have enough pick up power with, say, 4 adults on board? i sure hope so... still surprized at fuel mileage. saw in previous posts that it can vary greately. no big shock to me though, my current car is rated 19/29 mpg. should make no big difference from my current car. does anybody know if Subaru is planning a major redesign any time soon? just curious what's in store for the future

rsholland · May 2001

come with crossbars standard. They're optional on all other Subaru wagons. You should be okay power wise. If you're concerned, test drive it with four people aboard.

Bob

originalbitman · May 2001

You can get an aftermarket CD for $200 easy. I put a Blaupunkt Nevada in mine and it was something like $169. But you might want the Soob speaker upgrade...

bit

ateixeira · May 2001

The CD option is something like $250 even at invoice, so I'd also recommend going aftermarket for that. Places like Circuit City sometimes run specials where installation is free.

The keyless is easy to add. I believe it's something you can program yourself. Ask your dealer if he'll sell you the accessory for invoice price, even if it's not already on there, or go to www.subaruparts.com and order it there.

I have tinted windows, but the A/C in my Forester will freeze you! That plus I'm getting 25.1mpg over the last year in my Forester.

22/27 mpg is actually very good for a 2.5l engine. It's better than competitors with the same size engine, even those that are just 2WD. Plus it runs on regular 87 octane, which around me costs 24 cents per gallon less than premium.

More pros: Camry and Accord don't offer AWD, Camry V6 requires premium fuel, neither offer a wagon bodystyle, and Subaru's warranty beats both (it's longer than Honda's and only Subaru includes roadside assistance).

Good luck with your car shopping.

-juice

evilizard · May 2001

I've driven my Sub loaded with 4 adults on many occasions. You'll know that its got weight compared to being by yourself but it has enough power to get the job done. You'll hear it reving but it has the output. If you look around 165hp is pretty close to what a lot of v-6's on other cars put out.

I doubt well be seeing major changes for a few years. The 2000 MY was a major redesign over the original series which went from 95-99
(there were some stylistic differences in 97-99 but the powertrain and frame remained the same)
In 2000 they switched engines (DOHC to SOHC)
They changed the rear suspension.
They Dug up some more space in the interior and Added body cladding and more accessories as standard. The Rear LSD was an option in 00, standard in 01.
They also might have made some transmission changes but I'm not sure.
They reinforced the passenger compartment for more safety.

I suspect the next big thing will be the filling out of the Impreza WRX (tack on a few more performance options as standard) and the implimentation of the ST-X concept vehical which has affectionatly unoffically been dubbed "The Outbrat" (see sub web site for details).

hammersley · May 2001

Age over beauty?!?!? Don't confuse me...
I just had a birthday last weekend, and I've been told for years that I have a "great face for radio"...

Too late... I'm confused

Cheers!
Paul

originalbitman · May 2001

"...but it has enough power to get the job done."

That is unless they are Paisan's freinds.

bit

bandd1 · May 2001

Looking to purchase rear seat cover for my outback any ideas? Thick enough for the dogs nails.. oh p.s. thanks for input on warrenty...
also the 6 ad changer is it better to get after market or pay the price at dealer.. they wanted around 300.
Which after market products is compatible? Thanks again

jim235 · May 2001

Juice - Patti was handling it but I was passed on to other people since she was unavailable (in training). Someone else at Customer Service (Dan Devinoespert?) is supposed to be their expert on this problem, but I never was able to speak w/him directly. Subaru seems unwillingly to discuss this cold start issue in a public forum like Edmunds and has never responded to a single post on this issue. I assume Patti has been directed not to respond to posts regarding this problem on Edmunds. Correct me if I'm wrong Patti! Jim

jim235 · May 2001

Subaru's retail price on the extended warranty is not set by Subaru but by the dealer and is fully negotiable at any dealership. You can negotiate the best price most easily at the time you buy your car but if you didn't you can still comparison shop a variety of dealers by phone or email and negotiate the best price. I was able to get a variety of dealers to offer the extended warranty for $100 over their cost; which if you get the longest warranty, saves $1000 off the full retail cost. Jim

pattim3 · May 2001

Good Morning.

Nope - no "sworn to secrecy" going on. If you have a cold start problem, the ECU can be checked and - if it is the cause, it will be re-programmed. Service Bulletins are issued after extensive research. They monitor what they are hearing and seeing if the "fix" resolves the problem. If they see that it works, a TSB will be issued. Right now, they are doing the reprogramming and it appears to be working so, I'm sure something more public is forthcoming.

Ask for me when you call. Dan is our liaison with our tech. group and he helps the Reps. with tech. questions. But, the first step is to go to the dealer. If you get a hassle, call us and we can consult with the dealer. It should be an easy process.

Extended Service Agreements - I always encourage negotiations on the price, but I (I know my opinion is a bit skewed) think that our's (Added Security) is worth it. The benefit over the other programs is that it allows us more flexibilty if something is not covered. With the other programs, they do not have committment to the customers satisfaction. We have a vested interest in our customers and we try to make sure they are taken care of. If the program you purchase is an aftermarket, we cannot get involved in any way.

So, if you like the idea of an extended service agreement, I'd suggest Subaru's plan. Just negotiate the price if you are not comfortable with it. Remember, you get what you pay for and with Added Security, the coverage is better than most others.

Patti

drew_ · May 2001

...at 6-7pm Pacific/9-10 pm Eastern. Hope to see you there!
http://www.edmunds.com/chat/subaruchat.html

Drew
Host
Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards

viktoria_r · May 2001

Both Legacy and Outback wagons list power outlet as an option. Does this mean an additional power outlet? is cigarette lighter outlet standard? thanks!

evilizard · May 2001

The option is actually a second 12V power outlet that goes in right next the the parking brake on the upslope to the between seat jumble box.

If you have whatever option gives you heated seats you cannot have this option as this space is occupied by the seat heat controlers.

The car already comes with two 12v outlets, one up front beneath the radio and one in the trunk inside the tire jack enclosure.

gam2 · May 2001

Is Subaru still offering low financing? Their Website says they are, but has no details.
GAM

subyaudidude · May 2001

Orvis makes a really good cover for back seats. My mom got one for her 2001 OB Ltd. Check out www.orvis.com, then choose travel -> accessories -> automotive.

fishdeck · May 2001

I am looking for some advice. I just bought a LL Bean and have about 4000 miles. I started noticing paint chips at 3000 miles and it is continuing. I have about 12 chips now on the hood and above the windshield-this is making me sick since I otherwise love this car. I have an appointment with the dealer next week but at this point don't know what to do with this. It seems like the paint will just keep chipping off (there are also some blisters with some of the chips).
Has anyone else had a problem like this?
What does anyone recommend as far as a fix? Does it make sense to repaint?
If it makes a difference the car is black.
thanks for any advice.

originalbitman · May 2001

How big are the chips? I take it they are not from rocks or whatever.

bit

bandd1 · May 2001

thanks for info on seat cover did she purchase the car back seat (most likely) ?? suv one would probably be too large?
Thanks again

fishdeck · May 2001

The largest paint chips are about 1/8", irregular shaped and the paint is missing down to the grey primer. They really stand out on the black car. There are no small dents or anything to suggest getting hit with rocks so if they are from rocks they would be small rocks with low impact force. The blistering near the chips makes me think the paint is not stuck very well to the primer.

signalk · May 2001

I'm trying to decide between two vehicles as diverse as a Pathfinder LE and an Outback 5-speed. I drove the Outback Limited 5-speed yesterday and LOVED it....what fun to drive! When I mentioned to the salesguy that I would come back only if he would cut a deal, he said "do you go into the supermarket and tell them what price you want to pay for food?!" Stupid comment. But I do have a question....how negotiable are these cars? Carsdirect has a price of $24,300 fully loaded (with 5-speed) and they're usually high....I'm getting conflicting info on whether or not there are dealer or consumer incentives now (in the Northeast). If anyone has bought one lately, I would appreciate any price info. Thanks.

gjsmithmd · May 2001

We just purchased a 2001 OB Ltd Wagon at Planet Subaru in Norwell MA. Before we even got around to hassling about price, the salesman showed us the factory invoice on the cars we were considering and told us what the dealership wanted to make in profit above that. In addition he volunteered that Subaru was offering the dealers an additional $300 incentive,which I had not found in my research, and took that right off the prices.

In this case, they wanted a 3% profit magin on new cars, and sold their demos for invoice. The car in question was the service manager's car, with 4000 miles on it,and much of the interior absolutely unused. So at $300 below invoice without even a bit of effort on our part, we took it. Maybe we could have done a bit better if we had haggled for an hour, but the few extra $ didn't seem worth it, and Subarru had good financing offers also. The easiest car deal I ever made, and a pleaseant experience all around.

Re: Chips....When we inspected the car closely on delivery, it did have several chips in the hood as described above. Nothing that looked like a defect in the paint itself (blistering, etc). I had a late 80's Montero that chipped like crazy and went through 3 windshields until I put a deflector on the hood. Only problem there was that it altered the airflow so much that the wipers were sucked up off the windshield when operating at highway speeds. Any trouble with the aerodynamics of the Subaru deflector? How hard is it to install yourself?

Greg

gjsmithmd · May 2001

Here in MA, the LoJack theft recovery system is a popular option that allows the police to track & locate your car if stolen. They have a new system (System 5) which integrates with the keyless entry option on Subarus, and adds an alarm and ignition kill switch in additon to the locator. HOWEVER, the system has been re-designed recently, and in the passive arming mode is a real PAIN.

The default setup is such that, immediately on closing the doors (i.e. WITHOUT locking them) the system starts to arm and is fully armed in 30 seconds. This happens whether you are in or out of the car. Also, as soon as you unlock the doors with the remote, the system immediately begins to re-arm. Here are a few examples:

If you need to make repeated trips to get items or kids out, you either have to leave a door open, leave the engine running, or make it back & forth to the house in less than 30 seconds!

If you get in the car, close the door, and don't start it up within 30 seconds, the ignition kill switch prevents you from starting it.

If you stop the car, turn off the ignition, and a passenger gets out and closes their door, the system arms in the same 30 seconds, and a second opening of door or hatch will set off the alarm!

Of course, the person I spoke to at LoJack told me that the solution was simple: just put the system in valet mode every time I need to open and close my doors more than once! This involves turning on the ignition and holding down a tiny button under the dash. Of course, it defeats the alarm system entirely. Interestingly, that is how the car was delivered to us after installation of the system!

After 48 hours I was ready to have the whole darn thing pulled out of the car. The management at the dealership told us that this was a new version of the system that they were unfamiliar with. Checking the LoJack web site showed that the system should be able to be set to arm either passively or actively (i.e. only when locking/unlocking with the remote). After several calls to LoJack, the dealer finally got a senior tecnician who was familiar with the procedure, reprogrammed the alarm, and solved the problem. The dealer has now instructed them to only install the LoJack System 5 in active arming mode.

So, for those of you considering this particular system, insist that it be set to active mode only, unless you prefer the "features" I described above. This option is apparently not general knowledge among the LoJack installers.

Greg

canadiancl · May 2001

The Subaru alarm, if you set it to passive arming, functions pretty much the same as the Lojack System 5 in passive mode, doesn't it?

I personally really likes the auto re-arm feature (ie. when you unlock but don't open any door). It guards against accidental unlocking with the remote.

Also there are simple little ways you can override some of those passive features without going into valet mode. For example,

If you have to run back and forth from car to house, I think you can defeat the auto-arm by sticking the key in the ignition and remove it after opening the door. Or, for the auto re-arm, just quickly open and close one door after unlocking will defeat the re-arm. Then you can take your sweet time loading things (and kids) from the house. For course, figuring out all the nuances of the system will take some time and experimentation.

cgd1 · May 2001

This is a two-part question: #1 - Has anyone ever heard of the AWD failing in this manner--my husband parked his 5-speed manual outback station wagon ('96) while on a fire run near the ditch line, but on the grass. He said he got stuck, because (and here's the part I don't understand) only one tire (rear) was spinning and the other three did not move. The spinning tire was not on the ground, according to him, so that means there was not power going to any of the other three tires that were on the ground. Should I tell him he's crazy, or do we have a serious problem??

#2 I'm looking at a '98 Legacy GT Limited that has 45,000 miles on it. Dealer has it marked down to $15,000. It sounds like a real good deal, but I wanted a car with the limited slip differential (for added safety). Should I sacrifice the limited slip and go for it?? My 17-year-old daughter will be driving the car to school in September, 25 miles one way, mostly interstate driving, and we live 22 miles west of Cincinnati, so winters can get nasty. Will the limited slip make a lot of difference driving on snowy, hilly roads??

I apologize if this message should have gone into another category. I've only posted messages twice, and the first time I thought my browser was acting up, because it takes forever (it seems) to get into one of the boards. Now I know that's normal, but I waited longer than usual today and still couldn't get into the "maintenance and repair" board, and I'm real anxious to see if someone's got any suggestions. (My family calls me a "fanatic" about safety, but I told them nothing lives up to its name like a Subaru, so I hope my husband's experience isn't going to be typical of what to expect in the future, or he'll never let me live it down!)

subyaudidude · May 2001

Yes, she got the $65.00 car cover seat. It works quite well, and there is even a hole in the "crease" for the seat belt buckle clips so that, if necessary, people can still sit in the back seat and buckle up.

gjsmithmd · May 2001

This LoJack system REALLY wants to arm itself passively! The only way you can stop it is to start the car within 30 seconds of closing the door, or setting it to valet mode. There is no way for the owner to switch between active & passive modes. By the way, the Subaru factory alarm was not installed on my OB Ltd, only keyless entry. The System 5 has its own alarm & ignition kill system that "integrates" with the keyless remote. Here's the link to their various models: http://www.lojack.com/foryou/lojack.htm.

Greg

ateixeira · May 2001

Carol - all 96 Outbacks had open rear differentials, and the power was just taking the path of least resistance, and leaking out from the wheel that was in the air.

One trick would have been to feather the brakes and create some artificial resistance on that tire, so power was redistributed. This is what traction control systems do, essentially. The Outback VDC uses this type of system.

But yes, a limited-slip differential is a mechanical way to redistribute power, so it would have helped. You just sold yourself on a LSD, so I would look for a newer GT or Outback that has it.

Signal: my dad paid about $25k for an Outback Limited automatic, freight included. That was at www.fitzmall.com. You may want to use their price as a baseline, and have the dealer match it. That salesman sounds really cheesy, so you may try another dealership.

-juice

feilo · May 2001

Anyone got the scoop on '02 OB's and Legacy's?

Feilo.

ateixeira · May 2001

So far I've heard they'll get Bridgestone tires to replace the Firestones, and the VDC gets an off switch.

I think we'll get bigger changes in 2003.

-juice

javaswing · May 2001

Recently test drove the outback. nice ride.
but not impressed with the width of the car.
it is hardly wider than the corolla I am
driving these days!

Anybody got information on future redesign that
would solve this problem?

ateixeira · May 2001

The Legacy just got redesigned for 2000, so the next one would only be due for 2005 or so.

There will be a new Forester for 2003, but I doubt it would be wider than the Outback. A bigger sport utility wagon is expected in 2005 as well.

How much width do you need, though? My cousin has a '99 Outback, and puts 3 kids in the back in safety seats. The 2000 is about an inch wider, too. Check it out:

http://albums.photopoint.com/j/ViewPhoto?u=1400062&a=11264448&p=46643565&f=0

-juice

viktoria_r · May 2001

they currently advertize 2.9% in chicago area. Also saw Outback SW with auto, CD, alarm advertized for 21.5K. Is it a good price?

gotenks243 · May 2001

If you head down to your local dealer, the current color chart includes the 2002s, and there's a couple changes. There's a nice new silver for the Ls and GTs... a new, bright red is available across the line, Legacies and OBs... and on OBs, the only white now is the Pearl White first introduced on the H6s last year.

Mike

francophile · May 2001

You might discover that 2.9% is only for two year loans. The percentage rate rises with the term of the loan.

You should check out the New Car section of Edmunds for car pricing; they are excellent. you can price your car out with the exact options you want, or with the options included on the advertised vehicle, and see how good the price is.

http://www.edmunds.com/new/

Cheers,

-wdb

viktoria_r · May 2001

Edmunds must not have up-to-date info. The incentives section has nothing, yet there are lots of ads on TV locally. the subaru web site also mentiones it, but says 'see dealer for details'

romola · May 2001

I have a 2001 Outback with 2000 miles on it and have decided to sell it. There is nothing wrong with it. I paid 22,955 and it has: Automatic transmission, cargo net, security system upgrade, cd player and rear bumber molding. MSRP total suggested retail price was 24,883. I want a Honda civic. Do you think I should try to sell the car myself? How much should I expect? Should I try to trade it in? I expect to lose a lot, as the tax alone was 1,800 and I don't see how I can recover any of that. Any advice would be appreciated (other than keeping it -- I'm just not a Subaru person...) BTW Kelly, and Edmunds don't yet have 2001 recommended values.

ateixeira · May 2001

Sorry to hear that. Any particular reason? The threat of $3/gallon gas?

Any how, figure you lose about 10% of the value just by driving it off the lot, then 10% each year after that. That's a rough rule of thumb.

Since it's almost new, I'd try to get 90% of its original value, or about $20,700. You may want to try Car Max, which not only sells but also buys cars.

-juice

canadiancl · May 2001

I mean in a span of only 2000 miles, you've decided that you don't really like Subarus and want a Civic, which is a nice little car, but soooo different from the OB. Was there some character flaw with the OB that didn't materialize till after you took delivery? Did you buy the OB on a spur of the moment? If I were you I would hang on to the OB for at least 1 year or else you would really take a bath on a trade-in (or private sale because of the non-recoverable tax)

mitchnet · May 2001

Just finished doing my first road trip using a Yakima SpaceCadet Cargo box on my 2001 OB and thought I'd report that I am very pleased with it.

I also considered the Thule Excursion box but Thule does NOT approve the use of the Excursion box with the OB factory crossbars. You can do it..but Thule does not recommend or approve it. I called and spoke directly with Thule customer service to verify this. Thule told me to get their rail mounts, crossbars and locks which adds about another $190. On the other hand, Yakima has fully approved their SpaceCadet box with our OB factory crossbars. The Yakima box also holds a little more (15 cubic feet vs 13). I purchased the Yakima Spacecadet with 2 sks core locks for $270. I also felt the Yakima was better made (ie..insulation on the lid, bigger hinge springs, clamp hardware, etc.).

I was suprised to find that the Yakima SpaceCadet added neglible wind noise..even at 75mph. At lower speed I even opened the window to listen and couldn't detect additional wind noise.

My findings on some other cargo boxes: I liked the Packasport boxes..especially since they are waterproof and use marine carpeting - but at $810+ they were too costly for my limited use which is for vacations and taking the kids to college. The Subaru Accesory boxes appear to be made by Swagman out of BC. They seemed nice enough but are quite a bit more expensive then either the Yakima or Thule boxes.

liondogs · May 2001

mitchnet was there a big gas mileage hit using the cargo box. I have looked into Packasport boxes but am concerned about a big reduction in gas mileage because of increased wind drag. I would like to keep the box on the roof full time this is why I have looked at the Packasport.

ateixeira · May 2001

Using my soft carrier I still get 25-27 mpg on the highway, so it's only 1 or 2mpg worse than usual.

Also, my cousin has one of those huge X-Cargo ones, and he said his mileage was great for the same trip.

So if you want one, don't let a tiny mileage penalty stop you. Even my small one offers 14 cubic feet, which is like having another trunk.

-juice

nematode · May 2001

We have the Thule Excursion cargo box. We have used it for several 2000+ trips with no problems with the factory OB rails and cross bars. The Yakima is better made but costs $270 -vs- under $200 for the Thule with the lock.
There is wind noise from the Thule but is not horrible. The fuel economy hit was about 3-4mpg for us. Basically 19-20mpg from the usual 23-24mpg at 75mph.

paulsgt · May 2001

I have not been back to the dealer in a few weeks (didn't like the way I was treated, I'll have to choose a different one). Anyway, is it true that the 2002 color choices include a bright red for LL Bean? If that is true, I'm waiting till I can buy a 2002. I don't really like any of the color choices on the 2001 models. (If I could get the blue on an LL Bean, maybe but I'll always choose a bright red car if I can get one).

Paul in MN.

drew_ · May 2001

...at 6-7pm Pacific/9-10 pm Eastern. Hope to see you there!
http://www.edmunds.com/chat/subaruchat.html

Drew
Host
Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards

jdlangan · May 2001

Where did you find the Excursion for under $200? I've been researching this again since we have to go to VA Beach for a dance competition in July. The best price I saw was $215, plus shipping of course, on a MSRP of $245. I've been looking at a soft carrier that JC Whitney offers, it has a rigid plactic panel in the front that makes it more aerodynamic, for $99. I'd still prefer a hard box, and like the looks of the Thule, the Sears is just too darned big for my taste since it only comes in one size now.
Jeannette

ateixeira · May 2001

Wow, an Excursion SUV for $200? I thought they were $40 grand. Big rebates, I guess...

;-)

jdlangan · May 2001

They had to offer those rebates to offset the gas prices.......

kmclean · May 2001

Talk about great timing! I've been collecting information on cargo boxes for the last few weeks in preparation for buying one for my 00 OB wagon - even sold the old X-cargo that had served the Caravan so well (saw one installed on an OB like mine at Mt Bachelor in February, and realized it just WASN'T meant to live on my OB). A neighbor bought it and gleefully installed it on his motor home!

Did you buy the box locally or order it "remotely?" I live in the Seattle area and our sales tax is now up to 8.8%, so I wouldn't mind a little savings on that count.

I also plan to use my box intermittently (vacations, moving to/from college, etc.) - how tough was it to un/install?

In any event, thanks for a nice, timely post.

Hey, juice, I was just back your way this week (Bethesda) - OB's look pretty rare back there - compared to Seattle (they're EVERYWHERE out here). Too low-brow for the DC-area socialites?

Cheers from the PNW!

Ken M.

sagarwal · May 2001

Does anyone know of a good site to check for current rebates and incentives. Seems like edmunds and kbb have fallen behind on this aspect of their sites and have not been updating them.

Subaru Legacy/Outback

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