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Comments
Rob - I believe the cooler is made for Subaru. I have seen before in this forum that people have purchased non-Subie coolers for the better price. My salesman even told me to go elsewhere to purchase the cooler due to price. As for it drawing on the battery, I can't remember what the manual said, but it should be in there. (maybe I'll check tonight).
ddty - $25,990 for a Bean?? Do you know someone? That is a great price. Did it come with tires?? ;-) I guess they are not selling as well as expected, but, still great cars. Congratulations and welcome to the club.
-Greg
I continue to be amazed by all of the positive comments about these cars. As has been noted before, the other groups seem to complain more about their cars than praise them.
I really undecided about which model to get. I think I've ruled out the VDC due to cost. If I can get a Bean for $26K that may be the way to go.
However, I don't really like the sunroofs on the LTD and Bean. The front doesn't really do anything for me since it just pops up. However, I really want leather interior. Is it possible to get leather in the base OB? Other than leather and sunroof, are there any other differences between the base OB and the LTD?
How much better is the performance and mpg with the 5 speed? I'm tempted to go that route except for the Chicago rush hour.
I've also heard the VDC is quieter due to added insulation. Would undercoating do anything to quiet the other models more?
Thanks for all of the advice.
Jim
PS - how do I get one of those nifty flags after my name?
As to your question about what the LTD adds to the base OB, this is what I gathered that is added to the Limited:
*All weather package with heated seats, defrosting outside mirrors, windshield wiper de-icer
*Side impact airbags, front seats
*Dual sunroofs (front pops up, rear retracts)
*AM/FM/Weatherband/Casstte/CD, 8 speakers with bass, midrange and treble adjustments.
*In-glass antenna
*Leather trimmed seating surfaces
*Leather Steering wheel
*Leather shift knob
*UV tinted glass
*Variable delay front interval wipers
*Front door courtesy/puddle lights
*Gold accented alloy wheels
*Body color door handles and mirrors
Does anybody have any comments on the assembly quality of an OB which is made here in the States vs the Forester which is still made in Japan? I heard the Indiana plant had quality problems when it first opened but I'm assuming that those problems have been solved by now. Generally speaking, some people believe that vehicles assembled in Japan have fewer problems than those assembled here in this country (USA). I've heard comments that Japanese workers are more detail oriented than American workers (no flames please, it's just what I've heard others say, lol). In fact, a co-worker told me he'd only buy a Japanese car that was actually made in Japan. Any comments?
and Jim, you've GOT a flag after your name, lol! --Old Glory! But I've run into many on these boards here at Edmunds that change their flags to reflect their heritage. You can do that by editing your profile and changing the country designation to whatever you choose. You must then log-out of Edmunds. If you have auto-log-in, then you'll have to manually log out and then re-log back in.
Jim - you've driven an Outback, try a test drive in a Forester. The main thing to consider - the Forester is a tad more snug in the rear seat area than the Outback. So, if you have kids or regularly transport more than 2 people around, the Outback (any of the flavors) may provide a more comfortable ride. The Outback also has a softer ride.
You can get aftermarket leather installed in any vehicle, including the base Outback. Some dealers have packages available, but you could go and find an installer yourself. I personally like the cloth seats better, so ours is the base Outback.
Quality: both vehicles are well built. And a good powertrain warranty is provided - so those parts you talked about getting at an auto store are covered!
Come over to the Subaru Crew topics - you'll get some additional responses (and opinions)
-Brian
As for performance I think the 5 speed does a much better job of letting you use the torque curve of the H4. I love mine.
bit
I also glanced at the Forester. They had a silver premium package with leather and a large sunroof. The roof looks a little more practical on the Forster since it slides from the driver all the way back to the passenger. Hmmmm...decisions, decisions!
Juice - I think you have a Forester and your Dad has a LTD (if I remember correctly). What can you offer in the way of comparisons and contrasts between the two vehicles?
Jim
The OB has a smoother ride, feels heavier (not just weight wise), safer in some way. I don't feel like I'm hogging the road or a parking spot with some Monster SUV I need a ladder to get out of either.
Now some of this might be that my previous car (1988 Nissan Sentra) was a smaller car that had no power steering or cushion (lol). However, I had that car 13 years- and I believe that I am right again in choosing a quality, long lasting vehicle.
Jim-- yeah, dang... now what?? lol How did that silver Forester look to you? That's the one that I have a deposit down on. I like the contrasting colors of the base S model but really don't care for the new for '02 "graystone" bottom. I liked the '01's platinum color much better. I don't really care for the monotone color schemes either. What do you think? I really do like the contrasting colors on the OB. *argh!* ...again
I guess in addition to driving the Bean, I'll also go and drive the Forester. It's growing on me since it looks more like the traditional SUV yet still gets great mileage. But then again, maybe that's why I like the Outback - it isn't traditional!
Your comments about sporty feel are interesting and may steer me towards the OB. I just want to be comfortable during my 22 mile commute each way. It's all expressway, but that's often a misnomer during rush hour.
At least I have all summer and fall to think about it.
Jim
Comments on the Bean: I chose the Bean over the H-4 simply because of the smoothness and the creature comforts. I have a 40 mi commute each way and I wanted it to be as smooth and comfortable as possible without going out and buying a supper expensive vehicle. I tried numerous other types of vehicles in this price range and nothing came close to how nice the Subie drove...well, except for the MDX, but that is not in the same price range.
Things I force myself to live with/without:
The gold wheels...not my favorite, but, I can live with them.
The front pop up sunroof...would prefer it slid back, but, I can live with it (the kids sure do love driving around with the back one open!)
No 6speed manual or 5speed auto.
No homelink...why?
Subarus truely are fine vehicles. Any model one buys will certainly yeild a long happy ride for a long time.
-r
Sue: I agree with the idea of running the vents after turning off the A/C for just a minute. I turn the A/C off a block before home, and it's always worked.
Forester or Outback? I'll list each one's pros from my point of view:
Forester: much lighter so it feels more agile, shorter wheelbase helps manueverability, cargo area holds tall boxes, made-in-Japan gives it a slight edge in reliability surveys, costs less, world's largest moonroof.
Outback: very substantial "feel", smoother highway ride, more passenger room, better for long cargo, moonroof for the rear passengers too.
If you're on the fence, let your needs pick the car. Got 2-3 kids and dogs and take lots of long trips? The Outback will better accomodate your needs.
0-1 kids and a dog with mostly short trips? Go with a Forester. You can always trade up if you need more space later.
I paid $19,200 way back in 1998 and it's still worth $15k or so. Now that's resale! It still has almost 80% of its original value.
-juice
A local dealer suggested I purchase the automatic model. Said Since the 2000 year model that the manual and auto are very different. Stated that a computer controls the 4 wheels on the auto and basically distributes power to each of the 4 in the amount of power each wheel needs. Said the manual transmission works well but basically distributes power to essentially 3 of the 4 wheels if the 4th begins to slip. Thus the automatic gives more control and also has a higher resale value and a greater market.
I need to know if the above is accurate inasmuch as I thought a manual transmission usually provide more control in snow, etc.
Would appreciate some input plus pros and cons. Thanks.
P.. BTW anyone have any photos of the 2002 Outback Wagon yet?
All Subaru manuals use a viscous center coupling to distribute power front to rear, On manuals the power split is normally 50/50, front to rear. That can change depending on road conditions, or whether you are braking or accelerating.
All Subaru automatics use a electronic center coupling to distribute power front to rear. On most models the normal power split is 90/10 front to rear. I believe the WRX's normal power split is 50/50(?), and the Outback VDC is 45/55.
Only the automatic VDC model has the ability to control power to each wheel. However, some Subarus also have a viscous rear LSD, which can distribute power to either the left rear or the right rear.
Bob
bit
All Outbacks (except the VDC) now have a rear limited slip differential, but an open front differential. So if a front wheels slips, all the power to that axle will leak out the slipping wheel, no matter which tranny you have.
Only the VDC "manages" both front and rear axles (with traction control), and would therefore have an advantage over other Outbacks in the really slippery stuff.
With an auto you don't have to slip the clutch off road, so that would be an advantage. It's also better for towing, and easier for those bumper to bumper commutes.
A manual costs less to begin with, so resale is a wash. It tends to be more fuel efficient, at least in the real-world cases I've heard. I find them far more fun, offering better control, plus you get 5 ratios instead of just 4, and it's quicker to boot.
-juice
I haven't seen any pictures but a Subaru dealer told me there will be no changes of significance either mechanical or cosmetic. I did read somewhere that Winestone will be dropped and replaced by a different shade of red.
Vince
1. My gas mileage is lousy. I have a/t and I have been driving fairly slowly with a mix of freeway and city. I usually have the a/c on, but I am only getting 18-19mpg.
2. Steering wheel jerks. If I am going around a corner and I hit a bump, the steering wheel will try to jerk back toward center. If I don't have a good grip, it would likely get away from me.
any ideas?
I average 24-25 in mixed driving with air on and off but I have a stick. How many miles on your GT?
bit
But in the mornings, when the car is cold, I get clutch chatter. I don't burn the clutch [too much] I drive it kinda hard, but only after the clutch is all the way engaged. Dealer asked right away if my chatter was in the mornings [like they have heard of it before] but could not recreate it. Has anyone else had this problem? BMW Subaru manta crux has always been great!
thanks - steve-v
bit
How do I access the board you referred to?
Thanks,
Vince
SUBSCRIBE LEGACYGT Your Name
The list as indicated by its name is made up of GT owners. Not a lot of traffic but what there is comes from knowledgeable enthusiasts. There is an archive but you have to be a member to access it.
bit
thanks for the response. It seems to do it more when turning right, but I've experienced it in both directions.
the car has 1700 miles, so it's still pretty new. I got the oil changed at 1000.
thanks,
Darin
Mileage: give the car another few thousand miles to loosen up. Subies are famous for being "tight" when new. My mileage improved 2MPG after 7K miles or so, and the shifting is much less notchy too.
Cheers,
-wdb
I picked up a tidbit from the Maxima board (I own a 2000 OB Ltd wagon and a '97 Maxima SE) - a fellow with a Max had a leaking problem like yours. The Max moonroof both pops up at the back, or slides back into the roof, as I believe yours does. Turns out that despite the apparent "tight seal" of moon roofs, they are actually expected to let some water get in - and there is a drain system (at the four corners on the Max) in the housing frame that lets the water drain out. This fellow's problem was that somehow one or two of the drains had become blocked with some kind of "crud" (parks under trees that drop seeds, etc.?) that had accumulated over time. As your car is new, there's likely another explanation, but it's worth checking out (perhaps the drains were blocked with paint?).
Good luck, let me know what the answer is.
And to all - a happy (and safe) fourth from the Pacific Northwest!
Cheers!
Ken M.
bit
I've seen better on the 2.5l, but that's acceptable for a mid-size AWD automatic wagon. At least it's regular fuel.
-juice
It does include 4 tires, Greg. -:( 4 Firestones. -:)
So far, it works well, except for its 'native' brake noise when driving backward. The dealership service man told me the correction will soon be available from Subaru. It doesn't hurt anything except for your ear, maybe.
I bought the car from Kirkland Nissan&Subaru, Washington. The sales person is John Simon.
John
"LTW"
It's noisy when you release it? Sound like something is sticking.
That LTW camper looks like fun. I prefer my trusty tent and an air mattress, though.
-juice
Becky
The Subaru one is pricey. Even a wholesaler recommended I shop elsewhere.
-juice
The biggest problem I saw with the LTW is lack of storage space when you add many options. It's also kind of expensive compared to Chalet's bigger (& heavier) Alpine model which comes with more standard items.
I had the very same problem with my OB when I got it. It would not lock and the light was on on the dash. I took it to the dealer without an appointment and they adjusted the latch right away (takes only a few minutes) and since then, no problem any more. There is an adjustment screw on one side of the latch. You need to remove the plastic at the bottom of the gate opening to access it. This plastic panel is held in place by clips. Be very careful when removing it, the small plastic tabs which go into the clips break easily...
Pat.
Tracy: my rear hatch takes a good slam to close. Drop it from about a foot or two away and it does not close completely. Is that the same problem you have?
First, push the rubber liner forward, if you have one, and out of the way. That's usually it. Then ask your dealer to adjust the latch so it's easier to apply.
I've never been back to a dealership so I have not had it adjusted. Guess it never bothered me much.
-juice
Warren