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Comments
Greg
-Ralph
I think Toyota used the name Lexus so they could easily create a new customer value: Luxury and reliability. BMW seems to be adding reliability to their value which, in my opinion, will drive them above the other German automakers. I also believe that today, everybody is starting to expect high reliability.
Just my 2 cents although it's highly possible that I am all wet in my evaluations.
Mike
-mike
Mike from North Texas (too many Mikes)
Toyotas and Hondas bring in a premium price, selling close to or at MSRP. This gives a dealer about 2-3K+ in profits.
Subarus and other brands sell for $100s over invoice.
The Toyota Dealers and Honda dealers hold the price up near MSRP because they know that they won't be making $ in the backend of warranty work (paid to them by the manufacturer) repair and maintenance work.
Other makes know that they will on average make $X over the life of the car on warranty work and repairs, so their profits are about the same as those doing less repairs.
It all boils down to $ and cents.
-mike
I went to and test drove a 01 LLBean yesterday (at another dealership 30 miles from here). Susan with SoA had called and had them agree to give me the Subaru family discount, which is suppose to be $300 over invoice.
The cost they gave me was $28,130.
The cost on a 02 base Outback with no options other than automatic and cd was $23,000. I checked the invoice prices through Edmunds and they are around $1000 less. What's the best deal you guys have heard of? Oh yeah, they only offered me 18,000 for my 01 Outback base wagon as a trade-in. I felt it should be more based on what Edmond's says is a fair trade-in value.
Sharon
Also, it doesnt sound like a demo is the way to go. I think we will try for an 01, when the 02's come out.
Thanks.
Bucky
Not sure how many miles you have on your '01 but KBB shows a Trade In value of $20,400 for a Base AT w/ 6000 miles in Good condition. When I choose Fair condition it goes down to $18,245. Not gospel but once again a point of reference.
I'm looking at purchasing a 1999 Brighton wagon with 76,000 miles for $10,900 from a dealer.
The car seems in extremely good shape. Do you think that this is a good deal with high mileage as such?
Thanks,
Joe
Course they could have just made a bunch of $$$ and want a better car.
Any high milage drivers car to share your strategy?
At any rate it seems like a fair but not excellent deal. Hopefully the car has been well maintained (oil). I'd bet you could chop a few hundred off the price as the car is the bottom of the line model (usually not very popular) and high milage for the year (thus suspect).
Keep in mind you've got a bunch of stuff comming due at around the 100K mark. Belts, timing belt, tune up, possible valve work. Also your CV boots are currently suspect as are your shocks. Tires you can see for yourself.
Then at around 130K start looking at your alternator, water pump and starter motor.
I asked him what he meant and he said, "Oh, we never see our Subaru customers again until they want to buy another one. The Volvo people are back here all the time." He refused to elaborate.
Re the cargo net: I now see why the diagram, despite originalbitman's improvements, is confusing. The instructions refer to the "tail light access panel" and show this dinky little door that I had not even noticed. I thought they meant the panel you remove to change the bulbs, but they really mean the one that gives access to the bolts that hold the tail light assembly on.
For anyone interested, there are very reasonable prices on CarsDirect. $21.5K for GT and $23.7K Outback LTD.
I would appreciate any information anyone can give me before I make my purchace.
If you haven't already, drive both and see which one suits you. You may prefer the way one 'feels' compared to the other. They're both great in the snow, and rain too. Where are you located - does it snow much there? If not, the GT would probably be fine, even if it did snow a lot.
We chose our '00 Outback because of the all-weather package (heated seats, mirrors, lsd, wiper de-icer). I believe the '02 GT gets this package now too. So, if that's all you're looking for, then the GT would be the choice based on price.
-Brian
(probably didn't do much to help you choose one over the other)
I would appreciate any information anyone can give me.
For the most part very similar vehicles and unless you need the inch of ground clearance the decision is more a matter of taste than actual performance.
Here's my GT: http://bitman.com/gt/
bit
This is a follow-up to my post #2182. Subaru replaced my clutch assembly, pressure plate and fly wheel last week under warranty at 15,000 miles. They blamed me for prematurely destroying the clutch, but they said they would replace it as a "goodwill gesture", even though the warranty doesn't really cover these parts since they are "wear" items. After a full week at Carlsen Subaru in Redwood City, I picked up my 2001 Outback on Wednesday afternoon. Everything seemed fine except for a minor popping sound from the gearbox when shifting into 5th gear. One of the things I had complained about besides the chattering and burning clutch was a clicking sound when shifting into 2nd gear. They fixed the clicking sound by insulating the shifter clips, so I assumed the new 5th gear sound was nothing major.
I drove away happily and confidently. I drove home about 10 miles and went out later that night. Upon returning home after maybe another 10 miles of driving I noticed that while the car was in idle in the garage, the tachometer was revving up and down from 1,500 rpm's to 750 rpms back and forth with my foot not on the gas. This was not normal. I then heard a rapid dripping sound and found a trail of liquid leading into my garage and walked around to the right front tire to investigate. There was rapd dripping of what seemed like a watery substance forming a pool about a foot inside from the rt. front tire. Since it was late, I put paper bags down and decided to follow up in the morning. The next morning, the bag was fairly wet and there was still a foot-wide pool of a watery substance on the garage floor. I called Howard at Carlsen to ask his advice since I didn't know if it was OK to drive it in. He assured me that since I had the defroster on the night before, that it was just AC condensation. I cautiously proceeded up the freeway to Carlsen to have them check it out just to be safe. About 5 miles up the freeway I heard a terrible screeching at rapid intervals. I merged over to the slow lane, pulled off onto the shoulder with the noise worsening, and then, "Bang!". The car wouldn't go forward and there I was on the side of the freeway. I figured my transmission had just gone out. The emergency call box operator called AAA for me and also patched me through to Howard. I asked Howard if he could get me a tow any faster than AAA and if I needed a flatbed. He didn't seem to know if a flatbed was necessary and he said if it was the transmission, then it was "already wrecked anyway." Exasperated, I stuck with the AAA idea and waited on the side of Hwy 101 for an hour. I checked the owner's manual and it said NOT to have any wheels on the ground if transmission trouble was suspected.
When we arrived at Carlsen with my car on the towtruck's dolly, everyone completely ignored us for 10 minutes. No one looked at me, much less asked what was going on. Then 6 mechanics started circling the car, not saying a word. I asked if they wanted to see where the liquid was coming out of the car and was ignored. I was later told again that it was the AC condensation. After they pushed it into the garage, Mark, the mechanic showed me my old clutch, fly wheel, and pressure plate as I had asked the day before. He was very nicely explaining the discoloration, etc of the parts when Howard yelled at us that I was to get out of the garage. We walked out of the garage while continuing to discuss what might be the problem, and Howard pointed to his watch, and said, "watch your time, Mark!" So my conversation was cut short. I was given a loaner car and told they'd call me later with a diagnosis.
Howard called me a couple hours later and told me that I needed a new transmission. I asked what happened. He theorized that it might have been a bad bearing, dropping metal chips into the transmission gearing and causing metal on metal that morning. (This, after blaming me for the destruction of the clutch.) Or, later, he said it might have something to do with the clicking and popping sounds I had heard from the gearbox, like a loose piece of metal that broke free into the transmission.
Patti, I want to get to the bottom of these problems! I have lost any feeling of safety or faith in the reliability of the car and also the dealership in making my car right. How do I know when I get the car back next time that the problem is really solved? How am I to be assured that any and all collateral damage from the "metal on metal" transmission failure will be completely fixed? I am not an expert on cars, but the dealer is supposed to be! If they had the car for a week putting in a new clutch and then handed it back to me, only to have the transmission fail the next morning, how do I know when and if this car is going to be safe and reliable?
Patti, I haven't called Subaru-3 yet, but I will on Monday morning. I feel like I need to have a district rep investigate these problems so I can feel safe driving my car again. I have to say that I don't trust the dealership to make it right after going through this experience. I also am not sure that whatever happened to the transmission isn't something that they did or didn't do while it was in their shop for the week prior, or if it was something very wrong with the car from day one. Either way, it's not good.
I'd appreciate Subaru's district invlovement in this matter.
Shelby
What color was the fluid that leaked? If it was clear, then it probably was the condenser. If it was tan (or red for an AT), then it's tranny fluid. But, it sounds like it was condenser from what you described.
I would think that SOA would be able to help get this situation rectified. I'd also choose another dealer for future servicing of your OB!
-Brian
I agree with Brian, sounds like you need a new dealer!
Good luck, Tom
I don't know much about Subaru cars, but I've driven manual shifts for close to 50 years and I have never had one go out like that. In fact, I have a 1987 Saab with the original clutch and transmission. It's never given a problem in 180K miles. Good luck to you.
Jon W.
I am leaning toward the GT. I'm having a hard time justifying the extra 2K for leather and the weather package. Subaru is making a mistake not offering these options on the GT station wagon. They do come standard on the GT LTD sedan, but the sedan will not accommodate my family's needs as well as the station wagon--car seat, stroller, kid accessories, dog, dog accessories, etc. etc.
I would welcome any more comments from others who have a legacy or other subaru with similar ground clearance who live in a snowy climate.
Nice pic of the GT bitman.
bit
Any thoughts?
Chris
-mike
I asked the board what differentiate the L and OB models a few days ago and I thank you for your helpful comments.
The situation is that I want an L/OB and my wife want a Mazda MPV for our next family hauler. I'm sad to report that I'm a wuss and we purchased an MPV this weekend...
I'll still watch the board for entertainment value but unfortunately I won't share your L/OB comradeship in the near foreseeable future.
Best of wishes!
- Paul
-mike
From a safety point is is better. Stiffer safety cage, bigger, heavier.
Got a big more space in the back and limited slip is availible on the rear.
-mike
This past Friday evening, the east coast was hit with a terrible storm, at one point it rained 1 inch per hour. I hit a real wet spot, that would have hydro planed a car easily. I felt a brief hydroplane (about a second of wheel spin) then normal. I found out that the road had 5 inches of standing water on it and I drove through it at 65. I was impressed.
Subbie transmissions are good if they have been well maintained. I would get an extended warrenty however if fluids were not changed every 30,000 miles, or if there was metal shavings in the bottom, or if the fluid was cloudy, brownish or black, or smelled burnt.
Any other optiions on Extended Warrenties
Paul - MPV is a nice minivan. Lots of luck with it. Your still welcomed to "hang out".
OB vs GT - yeah, what everyone else said. We bought the OB - we like the way it looks. There are a few GT wagons running around where I live and they are very sharp looking, especially with the Al wheels. Either way (heavy duty suspension, SUV type styling, OB goodies vs. cleaner look, tighter handling, slightly quicker) you can't go wrong. Good luck deciding.
Greg
bit
I haven't heard yet that the GT is a slouch in the snow.
I have some soul searching to do before I make my decision. I would still appreciate any more input that people might have on the issue.
Heavy duty suspension? I'll let others more knowledgeable then me on this answer.
Greg
If Subaru produced a LTD SW, the decision would be easy.
bit
-mike
Greg
bit
-mike
bit - 2001 GT Wagon
Just finished a trip down the California coast highway (from Seattle - 2350 miles in 8 days) and will add the following tidbits to the board:
(2000 Ltd wagon, 5-speed, 15K miles.)
Gas mileage (family of four, usual stuff, clean configuration): on the two-lane sections, no A/C (cool on the coast), speed rarely over 60, LOTS of curves and up/downshifting: 30 mpg. Interstate with A/C, 70-75 mph: 27 mpg.
Reliability: perfect, with one comment. I did notice the "cold clutch" tendency to chatter the first couple of starts in the mornings, then nothing after that. I don't drive the car much, but as an old manny-tranny guy, this did catch my attention - a couple of times I remembered in time to try to avoid it, but it required very careful pedal management to avoid. On the other hand, there was a TON of up- and downshifting along the coast with not a hint of a problem.
Fun road: if anyone wants to learn the handling capabilities of your Subie (and perhaps yourself), try the stretch of Highway 1 where it leaves Highway 101 at Leggett (between Eureka and San Francisco) heading down to the coast. Holey moley! About 25-30 miles of continuous hills, turns, switchbacks - all on two narrow lanes bordered by trees and cliffs. I couldn't keep up with the locals (after all, I DID have the family in the car), but did pretty well, including a couple of more-or-less planned 4-wheel drifts. I'm glad I didn't Armor All the tires before the trip - they sure need it now (especially the outer two inches of the front tires). I run the tires at 34-35 psi.
A/C did fine keeping us cool as we came up through the valley with temps reaching 105. Figured out how to get more comfortable in the driver's seat (remembering to take my wallet out of my right rear pocket helps a lot!).
I'll change the air filter this weekend and will let you know if that Fram CA-3909 is, indeed, the same size at the OEMs I bought.
So far, so good, but I'll be watching that clutch (all but one - when I lived in DC - have lasted more than 100K miles).
Cheers!
Ken M.
So my wife and I are down to deciding between a '97 Subaru O/B with 92000 miles for $12,900(private sale) and a '99 Taurus Wagon with 29000 miles for 10,900(dealer). We found one of each that we could like. The one thing with the O/B is the current owner had problems with the head gasket that he had fixed. I think we could get him to lower his price some, but I'm not sure about the head gasket. Can someone give me some advice? We plan on getting the car checked out at the mechanic before we make an offer.
Thanks,
Joe
bit - 2001 GT Wagon
Greg