Subaru Legacy/Outback

ateixeira · January 2002

Hauling about 1500 lbs or so, I didn't have to slip the clutch too much. No bad smell. Though when I tried to teach my lil' brother to drive stick, I smelled it, so I know what you mean.

I didn't hit any major hills, nor did I drive long distances with the trailer, though. So YMMV.

-juice

c_hunter · January 2002

I've seen guys with manual transmissions really cook their clutch at boat ramps (even on big manly trucks). All it takes is a loaded wet boat, an incline, and an uneven surface. Many boat ramps are made from big concrete blocks spaced 2-4" apart. That distance is enough to act like a chock to smaller tires, and it can really cause problems. You have to really slip the clutch at high RPM in some cases, while also trying to avoid sliding backwards into the water. Lots of fun! With an auto trans, it's usually a non-event. Just put it in "1" and press on the gas pedal.

Craig

kmclean · January 2002

Andrew -

We had our 2K OB wagon's "back five" windows tinted in the spring of 2000, and have survived [nearly] two Seattle winters without any leaking (and the car lives outside). We're very glad we had the tint job done.

If you plan to keep the car for a few years or longer, I'd recommend the higher quality "metallic" film installed by a well-established shop. It's worth the extra few dollars.

Ken in Seattle

c_hunter · January 2002

H6-3.0 GT wagon in Japan

paisan · January 2002

I think that is class, and it doesn't look like it gets the dumb moonroofs either!

-mike

canoeist · January 2002

I have been considering having the windows in my 02 LL Bean wagon tinted as well. Any concerns with the film on the back glass defroster wires or the side glass antenna wires?

hypov · January 2002

someone get a mop!!!
I've made a mess of the floor. =o)
I'll part with my OB for that GT; and no moon roof.

-Dave

aps5 · January 2002

The window tint place said you can remove the tint from all but the back window, since the wires will come off with the tint material. He uses "3M" - I don't know if this is metallic or not.

Today I turned on the auto climate control, in the LLB 02, and immediately it said "ac". It is unclear why it did this, since humidity is low and it is cool outside..... It is frustrating to have to turn it off.

subearu · January 2002

I'd rather have this:

http://www.subaru.co.jp/legacy/c/c1/c1_k03.htm

-Brian

oclvframe · January 2002

Andrew,

I have an 01 Bean. The A/C will turn on automatically when you press the auto button...I think that is how it was designed to operate.

If all you want is the fan...press the fan button once and set the temp you want it to blow at....you can crank up the fan speed by pressing the button consecutively. About 90% of the time I get in the car, crank it up, hit the fan button and off I go. These days I set the temp. just warm enough to cause it to heat on cold mornings. In the afternoon, I hit set the temp to 65 and it just blows fresh air at ambient temp which has been very pleasent here lately.

As for the tint. I have all my windows tinted with fully metallic tint 35%. There is just a slight amount of added privacy, plus much cooler in the sun. No adverse effects to the seal, antenna functions, or defrost lines. BTW I used SolarWorks which is a nationwide chain that uses Lumar film...I chose the film they call the Mellinium film for the windows and Premier film for the moonroofs. If I had to do it again, I'd have tinted the moonroofs with 50% vs the 35 since up there it is virtually see-thru.

You can see pics of my Bean at: www.gatech.edu\oit\oe\design\rob\suby\subaru.htm

-r

paisan · January 2002

On my auto-climate it automatically puts on the A/C because it puts the defroster on when you first start-up until the temp needle lifts off of the "C" I usually just hit the A/C button off to prevent the compressor from running.

-mike

c_hunter · January 2002

On the Subaru system, AC runs by default whenever the ambient temp is above some limit, whether you want AC or not. I think the idea is to dehumidify and condition the air. Not a bad concept, but it seems uneccessary to me. Usually I want a little humidity in the winter, especially when running heat!

While I haven't noticed a drag on the engine with the H6, it still annoys me to have AC cycling, so I usually put the system in ECON mode or overrride the AC alltogether.

We're lucky Subaru even gives us the option to turn AC off. There are quite a few luxury cars out there that run the AC all the time, without providing an off switch.

Craig

ochssk · January 2002

My wife started the process to buy an Outback through the Costco program. She put in for the LL Bean but I'm still not sold on the extra cost for the H-6 engine and all the bells and whistles on the LL Bean. Any owners out there willing to give their two cents worth? Anyone else use the Costco program to buy their vehicles?

c_hunter · January 2002

I had an H4 Outback and recently moved to an LL Bean. In my opinion, the extra $$ for the H6 and amenities are well worth it. The H6 is extremely smooth and quiet. Took what was already a great car in my opinion and elevated it to more of a luxury vehicle. If you take the options and free 36K miles of maintenance into account, you're paying roughly $1200 for the H6 upgrade. Seems worth it to me.

That said, I was happy as a clam with my H4 Outback until I made the mistake of test driving the LL Bean. It pulled me in!

I don't know anything about the Costco program, but you should be able to get a Bean or regular Outback for close to invoice price at most dealerships. I paid $200 over invoice for my bean, with no haggling at all -- just asked the dealer to match another dealer price I saw on the internet.

Craig

rob999 · January 2002

I want one.

I'd glady skip the designer nameplate and the moonroofs for one of these. Thanks for the pic, C_hunter

- Rob

otis123 · January 2002

Go for the H6 version, it brings the whole car to another level (smoother ride & handling, heavier, more power when you need it). We've had our Bean for a year this coming Friday, and I've turned to my wife (the primary driver) plenty of times while driving to say "I'm so glad I decided to get you the 6 cylinder" (it's a little running joke we have, since she's the one who insisted on the 6, I'm cheap and wanted to get the 4!).

So, bottom line, don't be cheap, life's too short!

If you really hate the logos, you can take them off (someone posted how they did it about a month or two ago).

kens · January 2002

The caption on that photo says "Further evolution to the ideal grand touring car".

I guess the next step of evolution would be a manual tranny and a 5-speed auto!

Ken

paisan · January 2002

IMHO a GT wouldn't need a MT. A 5 or 6 speed AT would be nice w/manumatic thoug would be nice.

-mike

taubate · January 2002

I have a 2002 Subaru Legacy L Wagon, bought new and it has 700 miles on it. On cold starts, as I drive away I can hear a rattling noise coming from the engine.

The dealer mechanic sent me a copy of a bulletin saying that the noise is normal and will not lead to future problems. The cause of the noise is due to design changes in the engine (shorter piston skirt, etc.) It is true that once the engine heats up, the noise goes away because the piston has expanded somewhat.

How believeable is this bulletin? Any engine noise can't be good.

paisan · January 2002

How long do you let it idle before driving away? Subarus are known for cold valve clatter. Basically I would not worry if it's a small valve clatter and disappears after a short time, definitely by the time the engine temp raises off the "C"

-mike

taubate · January 2002

Actually, I didn't let it rattle. Start and then drive away. Given the length of winters in Minnesota, cold starts are commonplace. But I never have this problem with my other car, a 92 Accord.

I wonder if it's worth the hassle to insist on having it fixed under warranty

paisan · January 2002

Probably nothing to fix. I'd let it warm up about 1 minute before driving, and not pouncing on it hard til it is past the "c" I bet there is nothing they can "fix" since it doesn't appear to be broken.

-mike

hondafriek · January 2002

I agree with Mike all subarus have some valve clatter until they warm up, there is nothing to fix and you can complain to Subaru If you want but they will not do anything to what is considered normal.

BTW. your Honda has adjustable valve clearance, which has probably been adjusted more than once, thats the reason you do not hear the rattle, subaru has hydraulic lifters hence the rattle until it warms up.

Cheers Pat.

paisan · January 2002

Could it be a rattle from a heat shield on a cat? That is another possibility if it isn't from the engine directly.

-mike

taubate · January 2002

It's not a heat shield. I've had heat shield hang loose from my Honda before, and I know how it sounds like.

Also, because the rattling doesn't happen until I began driving it, I highly doubt that it's the hydraulic lifters. When I first start the car, before I drive it, everything sounds fine.

My guess is that the short piston skirt is causing this. When it's cold there isn't enough contact area, that results in knocking the cylinders. As it heats up, the piston expands and noise goes away. I just don't know how serious this is. The Subaru bulletin could be corporate propaganda.

jregen7243 · January 2002

My '00 Outback does the same thing. It is normal. Goes away after about a minute or two. You'll notice as the weather gets warmer that it won't do it. I've had other cars that do the same thing in cold weather.

Jon

bkaiser1 · January 2002

My 01 OB (h4/5sp) occasionally makes a light knocking sound when the engine is cold, but from all indications here and elsewhere, it's not something I'm worried about. There was a fairly detailed explanation of the sound on this board a few months ago, and it seemed to be right in line with what my dealer and others have said (could be propaganda, who knows). I try to avoid winding up the engine until it's been at "normal" temp for a while, so I don't think there will be any long term impacts from the noise.

hypov · January 2002

muffled jackhammer at it in a distance?
My '98 OB does that routinely during cold weather and dissipates when the engine warms up.
Now if I could only get a dealer who would be willing to risk their tech to check up on my jackhammer jabbing sound from the engine (piston slap I think) when I hit speeds between 80mph and 96mph (96mph was the fastest I've went).

-Dave

scirocco22 · January 2002

Steve-- Having purchased two new vehicles last year and also hearing input from friends and relatives, you usually can make a much better deal "haggling"/negotiating with the dealer yourself rather than simply accepting the Costco price. All the Costco program does is set an amount above invoice or below MSRP for which the dealer agrees to sell the car. I've discovered that this "price" is quite a bit higher than the actual figure that the dealer will allow the car to be sold.

Now I'm a faithful Costco customer and I'm also a shareholder but when buying a new car, price is my primary concern and any affiliation to Costco that I may have quickly is discarded.

Good luck!

--'rocco

eric102 · January 2002

The COSTCO price at the dealer I bought my Outback from was $500 over invoice. I paid invoice without to much effort. About 3 or 4 E-mails back and forth. The $500 bought me the All weather package.

Eric

hondafriek · January 2002

If the rattle is really bothering you, although it should,nt, bring it into the dealer ask for it to be checked again and have it documented.

You have a power train warranty for 60,000 miles on this vehicle, if you document your complaint at the beginning and they tell you it is normal then if anything goes wrong at a later date you are covered.

I really do not think it is propaganda, it is not in any companys best interest to ignore a glaring fault in its engines.

Cheers Pat.

hondafriek · January 2002

Brian, my boy, you appear to have a real bad case of B4 blues, I have to agree with you that is one gorgeous car especially in that blue.

Now I myself would settle for a Blitzen wagon, make it in that blue as well.

Cheers Pat.

mrk610 · January 2002

I also have that noise . I have a my02 outback h4 eat. I'm taking mine in for its 2nd o/f change. Since the cold weather here in Southern NJ my car also has the rattle . Mine sounds more like a knock coming from the pass side front of the engine .It only happens when I drive it cold but not when its idling . I let mine warm up for about 4-5 mins b/4 driving it and I then have no sound . I have had this looked at b/4 but guess what the dealer didn't find any noise . So I'm dropping it off the nite b/4 so its nice and cold the next day for them . I'm also going to be there when they 1st drive it so they there's no mistake on there part . I've done a lot of research on this in different places and other subaru forums . I've come to the conclusion that it is not engine noise but the timing belt tensioner. Other owners of my 01/02 subarus have had the same noise, and had the dealer change the tensioner and it cured the problem . I'll let you know how I make out with it . I've also had a couple of owners say that it was there fan belt tensioner not the timing belt .I know its not really the fan belt but I don't know how else to explain it .

mike k

taubate · January 2002

Look forward to hearing what the dealer has to say. Thanks for sharing!

02outback · January 2002

Hi guys and gals. My wife and I (she drives it, I maintain it) took delivery of an '02 Outback 2.5/auto in December. New design/increased content is much improved over '97 Outback my ex-wife left with. The dealer we bought it from insists (both salesman and service writer) that Subaru uses a special break-in oil and we should wait until 3000 - 3500 miles before the first oil change. Anybody know anything about this? Thanks.

hypov · January 2002

if Subaru does use such an oil, you'll probably need it for 10k+ miles. That's about how long to break it in. ;-)
Techs at where I service the car knows none of such. In fact, I do have the part# (somewhere) for the oil use at the factory.

-Dave

ateixeira · January 2002

Darlene from Quality Subaru said that is not true, they do not use a break-in oil. Change it at 3k, no later. I did mine at 1k because I am not patient.

Is the Beanie worth it? In reality only you can determine that. To my dad, it wasn't. He got the OB Limited H4 and loves it.

I'd probably spring for the H6 for my wife, because it does transform it into a more luxurious cruiser. She loves the wood/leather steering wheel and two-tone leather, plus the other touches that make it feel upscale. You also get 3 years of free service and 7.9" of clearance, more than even the Forester.

-juice

ccampbell4 · January 2002

We just got hit with our first real winter storm here. It's mostly ice and sleet, but we're supposed to get snow on top. It was a blast driving to work this morning! The only problem is that my Rodeo is taking up my garage while waiting for the lease to be up. (the lease company won't let me turn it in, even if I pay them the payments up front) I had to scrape ice for about a half hour this morning. I missed slightly once and tore the rubber molding a little around the driver's side window. Aaaaaahh!

I'll be curious to hear how the engine noise issue turns out. That is the same noise I tried to describe a week or so ago as "gritty".

eric102 · January 2002

We got our first (and probably last) snow last night. About 2" on top of ice. I live at the top of a steep hill, going down it you could feel the ABS doing its thing, but the car went where I pointed it, no white knuckles. Several cars and a 4X4 pickup were in the ditch at the bottom. Going back up was even easier, very little wheel slip. I'm impressed, this was my first Outback snow experience. I'm sure my Ford F250 4X4 would have been sideways going down hill.

Eric

c_hunter · January 2002

I also had heard rumors that the factory oil had an additive, but they proved false. I think even Patti checked on this. So, the 3000 mi recommendation is probably not a hard and fast rule. I am guessing you could probably even stretch it to 7500 without any problems. Engine manufacturing has improved significantly since the days when you would find metal particles and machining scraps in your oil!

If the rattle is related to the timing belt, it could be a simple matter of the belt "slapping" the cover that goes over the belt and pulleys. This would be easily diagnosed with a stethoscope or even just by placing your fingers on the cover and feeling for the slap. I always knew when the timing belt on any Chrysler 2.2/2.5 engine needed to be tightened, because the belt would slap the plastic cover in cold weather. Those were manual tensioners. It could be that the Subaru automatic hydraulic tensioner looses a bit of it's force when it gets cold. This is entirely realistic for a fluid based device like this.

Colin, since you have intimate knowledge of the timing belt and tensioner design, is there anywhere the belt could slap? Also, is there a way to adjust the hydraulic tensioner to give it more oomph when the temps drop?

Craig

hondafriek · January 2002

I did my first oil change at 1,000 miles, on my 2001 Gt wagon.

I have changed the oil at 1,000 miles on every new car I have owned It may be considered overkill. but for me it is cheap peace of mind.

I like to think I am doing everything I can for a long troublefree life, ( for the car that is).

Cheers Pat. PS. I am doing everything I can also for a long troublefree life for me but is does not seem to be working.

hypov · January 2002

Pat- prolongation isn't the key. It's enjoying it all the way up till whenever whenever is :-)
As for the car, yes, prolong its life so you can enjoy it.
My '98 OB had its first oil change at... ~200miles? Well, 3000miles or 3 months and guess which came first? :-D

-Dave

sten2 · January 2002

Does anyone know if the Legacy 95-99 Tweeter kit would work in a 2000 Legacy? They look the same in the pictures.

Karen_S · January 2002

Don't forget tonight's chat!

KarenS
Host
Owner's Clubs

jamessubie02 · January 2002

Would like any comments on the below before I buy. Thanks in advance for the advice.

Any differences in performance with the 5 speed? They seem to be hard to get a hold of as dealers in the NY area stock 95% auto.

Anyone know about the factory installed security system? Does it go off when a loud truck passes by?

Got quoted $24,900 (+ tax and DMV) for a 02 Limited with security system - fair? Can I do better? (Fleet manager said they have all of their models shipped with it installed - could it be just New York City area?)

ateixeira · January 2002

The 5 speed is a little quicker, if only because it has 5 ratios instead of 4. But the boxer engine is torquey and does mate well to an automatic, especially the Phase II engines (2000 and later for Outbacks).

My dad paid about $25k for his OB Ltd auto, so that's in the ball park. I don't think there are incentive programs going on right now.

-juice

bkaiser1 · January 2002

I bought a 5sp OB last year and love it...it feels quicker than the auto OB I rented before I bought, but there is a dead spot just off idle that bogs the car down sometimes. Launch it a bit harder (1200-1300 rpm) and this is rarely an issue. Look back through these threads regarding the clutch shudder that is apparently quite common with this model -- my clutch has shuddered when its cold since the car was new. 20K miles later, it's not worse, but not better. I am hesitant to consider another 5sp Subaru (even the beloved WRX) due to this problem. Otherwise, the car shifts very, very well (coming from someone who previously only drove slick honda 5 speeds) -- the gearbox feels great with fairly short throws and no rubberiness (?) that ruin some other transmission's feel. Also, the 5sp version pulls REALLY well in 5th gear up and over mountain passes...there's rarely much need the go to 4th unless you're passing on a grade or hauling a full load -- this is a pleasant change from my Hondas! Either one you choose, enjoy!
Brian

hondafriek · January 2002

I was being flippant when I said I was also doing everything for a long troublefree life for me.

But you are right enjoying life is the key, and I do enjoy life, so much in fact, that when my time does come I will be carried away kicking and screaming.

Cheers Pat.

oclvframe · January 2002

In post 4195, I vented about the poor service I received from the dealer I have been using since I bought my Bean....well, here is the latest episode of the story:

I stopped by there today because I felt the dealer should pay me back for my out of pocket exepense (having to pay an independent tire dealer for what they should have done under warranty). I also wanted them to see the before/after sheet from the alignment machine showing how far the toe was off. The service writer said ' I never told you your car wasn't aligned properly, all I told you was that the tire wear you had was acceptable.' Then he followed that up by saying that I should not come there again for service if I am going to 'slam' them and question their judgement.

Imagine the audacity!

Bottom line is: Time to find a new dealer. I am hoping that the Subaru/Cadillac dealer will be a little more customer service oriented. As for Troncalli Subaru in Alpharetta, GA...They will never see another cent from me.

Sorry, got carried away venting again. I hope nobody else experiences such awful service from their dealer.

-r

mdisaacs · January 2002

This afternoon I detected an odd burning smell in my new Outback. Before I could raise a serious eyebrow I remembered a post mentioning a certain smell that was related to the All Weather Package. I would just like to verify that the front wiper defroster does generate an 'over heated' smell while it's, umm, breaking in. Otherwise I need to avoid using it and visit the service dept. asap.
Thx - Mike

Subaru Legacy/Outback

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