Subaru Legacy/Outback

seayakker · March 2002

Wow I just popped over to the link Revka posted (I too was one of those folks who had narrowed my choice down to a Passat or an Outback - Outback won hands down) & I'm amazed at the difference in tone between the posters here at Subaru compared to other forums.

Seems to me that folks who have chosen Subarus, by and large, are intelligent, considerate & helpful with a healthy sense of humour. We're good people!! I think this should be added to the plus column for anyone considering a Subaru [grin]

And I'd like to take this opportunity to thank everyone here who has been so helpful with the questions that have popped up for me - you folks are great!

Jillian

mrdetailer · March 2002

While this may work better on regular roads, do not use RainX or any simlar product on the rear window if you will be driving on dusty roads. The Dust sticks like a magnet, and you are much worse off. I use RainX on the windshield, but not on the tailgate window.

ateixeira · March 2002

It would help Pat in those wet conditions, though.

-juice

rsholland · March 2002

subaru_team · March 2002

Here you go:

11th position in the VIN -

G or 6 = 5 speed

H or 7 = Automatic

Hope this helps you in your quest!

Patti

ateixeira · March 2002

Thanks, Patti. I know the first character is country of manufacture. For Subaru, 1=USA, or SIA in Indiana, J=Japan, or Gunma.

-juice

subaru_team · March 2002

for adding that. It's interesting if you look at VIN's in parking lots to see where they were manufactured.

Patti

goosegog · March 2002

Steve/fibber2: If you want more on the connection between the Rover 215V8 and the Buick V6 e-mail me at the address in my profile and I'll forward you a Word document containing some interesting history.

self_mechanic · March 2002

Are all the US model Legacy/Outbacks manufactured in Indiana? I checked the web site of Subaru dealer for outback and the VIN number start with 4. According to #5056 1=USA. The forester and Impreza start with J. Anyway, can you get a US model Outback LLB which is manufactured in Japan?
Thanks.

A. Chee

hypov · March 2002

Alland-
4=USA (Indiana) too. Unless Patti or anyone else comes up with otherwise.
My VIN starts with '4'.

-Dave

paisan · March 2002

All US legacies and outbacks are made in SIA, have been since ~'92 The H6 engine however is made in Japan IIRC.

-mike

fibber2 · March 2002

I never liked the idea of doing it, unless there was serious runout that would not allow the pads to contact flat. Rather I have (asked, when someone else is doing it, or when doing it myself) gone with 'block sanding'. It can either be done with a coarse grit paper wrapped around a wood block, or carefully done with a grinder. It adds some texture to the rotor for faster pad seating, breaks any surface glaze, removes minor grooves. Just make sure to remove the rust ridge on the outer and inner edges as they can damage new pads if they ride on these raised surfaces.

Steve

fibber2 · March 2002

Thanks, Will do so when I get back home.

Steve

kmarted · April 2002

I am about to finalize my car choice- either the Outback wagon with the 4 cylinder engine or the LLBean Outback with the 6 cylinder engine. The dealer I have worked with has made an offer for both cars that when compared to the invoice price are very attractive. II would like to hear opinions from those that have just purchased an Outback wagon with either engine. In particular, if you have the 4-cylinder, do you like that choice or wish you had the bigger engine, or if you have the 6 cylinder, do you find you really use all of that power or is it overkill. Was it worth the extra $5.0 k or so to get the larger engine. I live in Georgia and most of my driving is city and highway with some excursions to the hillier (I really can't bring myself to say mountainous since I lived in Oregon before coming to Atlanta) areas of N. Georgia, N. Carolina and Tennessee. Snow is not really a problem, even though the natives somehow turn it into one. I occasionally will carry a mountain bike or two, camping and climbing gear, and a passenger.
Any information and opinions will be greatly appreciated.

oclvframe · April 2002

Kevin,

Last year I test drove, and, had to choose between the 4 and the 6 cyl. IMHO there was no comparison when it came to smoothness and power delivery. I was sold on the Bean. I would have gone for the VDC but couldn't justify the additional cost.

I too take the vehicle up to Bull Mountain, Tsali, or Dahlonega for riding my bike, but, I only cary one bike with the seats folded down. I haven't gotten the roof rack attachments for my old Yakima yet....some day.

Bottom line is, test drive both. BTW I wanted auto...I live in Cumming and work at Tech, so I have long commute and stick just gets old after a while during bad traffic. If you are looking for a 5-speed, then the limited in a 5-speed might actually be a fun car to drive!

Good luck,

-r

c_hunter · April 2002

I had an H4 Outback for 2 years, and recently got an LL Bean. Both cars are great. The main difference is the level or refinement you get with the H6 engine, and that should be apparent with a test drive. The H6 also gets off the line faster, and really hauls in passing maneuvers once the transmission kicks down. But the main difference is in the feel and nature of the engines: the H4 is a bit raspy and sporty, while the H6 is relaxed and butter smooth.

To me, the H6 was worth every penny.

Craig

otis123 · April 2002

As others are saying, the H6 makes the Outback a whole different car - more refined, smoother... It can really move, too!

ateixeira · April 2002

I have the four banger in my Forester, and it's a perfectly adequate powertrain. No sane person could realistically claim he needs more power.

So of course, I'd get the six. ;-)

-juice

ochssk · April 2002

We got the H6 (LL Bean). After putting up with my '88 4 cylinder 4Runner and '95 Saturn SL2 I swore I would never get 4 cylinder again (or a GM). We have yet to take our Bean up to mountains but I can't wait. The power is very smooth with the H6. I find myself flying down the freeway without even realizing it.

snowbelter · April 2002

Our family has both. 4 is great for a driver w/o passenger(s). Got the 6 because 4 is too slow getting out of busy intersections with the weight of 2 or 3 passengers. 6 has more zoom although you really feel the power only at higher revs i.e. passing on a hwy. The 6 doesn't zoom from a dead stop like you'd think a 6 would. Hate buying gas for the 6 as I use hi-test. Actually bought the VDC for the McIntosh system rather than the Bean.

bkaiser1 · April 2002

Having not driven the h6 model, I can only speak to the power of the 4cyl Outback. I have an 01 OB wagon with the 5sp and love it...off the line with a full load, the car is no rocket, but the motor has an amazing amount of torque that feels better than the numbers might suggest. Sure, the 6 has gobs more power (yet gets essentially the same gas mileage as the 4) but I have never found myself dreading a passing manuver or a hill in this car. I have logged several multi-thousand mile road trips in my OB with a big load on the roof (3 bikes plus camping gear) and a full cargo area and have been impressed with how well this car pulls mountain grades at highway speeds. Were money-no-object and I could tolerate an auto trans, I would not hesitate to get the 6 -- but the $5000 price difference between my OB and the LLB is pretty steep in my book for essentially the same car with a fancy interior and bigger motor. I'm holding out for the Forester Turbo motor in the OB body!

seayakker · April 2002

I'm not sure if I can add anything new here other than another thumbs up for the Bean. After testing both, & noticing a big difference in power up steep hills, I justified the H6 purchase since I live in a hilly urban area & need to haul a fair amount of weight. The smoothness of the engine has been mentioned & with the handling & interior, I feel like I'm in a luxury auto.

I didn't particularly care about all the bells & whistles when I bought it, but at this point I'm delighted with most of them on a daily basis. Especially the all weather package & the MOMA steering wheel - it seems a little obscene to like a steering wheel as much as I do, but what can I say - I'm a tactile person, and how nice it is to have your hands on a lovely, smooth mahogany surface like that the whole time you're driving! [grin]

IMHO, no doubt, worth the extra 5K.

Jillian

sukibear · April 2002

I posted these questions under "Cleaning..." but they are really more general than that.

I'm thinking of getting the air filtration system for my 2002 Outback wagon. Does anyone know if it will keep the dust down inside my car? And if I buy one on-line can I just go to any Subaru mechanic to have it installed - or would it create a warranty problem? (I know that if I buy it through the dealer and have them put it in, it will probably cost twice as much.)

Also, how about the auto-dimming mirror with compass - does this have to be hard wired? Could, say, an auto glass shop put it on for me? Is this a cool thing to have anyway? And who is Darlene? Can she sell me these parts?

Thanks in advance. You are all so generous with your knowledge...

Kim

kazansky · April 2002

Dear Subaru gurus,

I am trying to perform diagnostic on my '99 Legacy Brighton (Check engine light just came up one day after I have installed Mass Air Flow sensor). Haynes Repair Manual: "make sure test mode connector is disconnected..." (6-3). I have observed about 12 different connectors under the dash right below the steering wheel. Which one is the test mode? What color is it/how many pins or what other distinctive characteristics of the subject?

Any links/references will be very appreciated.

Thank you.

bat1161 · April 2002

I had both the Air filter and the auto-dimming mirror installed by the dealer, but that was part of the deal I worked out with them. I have a 2000 OB with both items, and love them. The car comes pre-wired for the mirror starting in the latter half of 2000. I know this because the dealer had to order the wiring harness in order to install it :-) Having allergies, I find that the air filter system does help (so long as you drive with the windows closed) and would recommend it as well. Like I say, I'm not sure how to do the install. Hope this helps.

Mark

jimw11 · April 2002

I am a new Outback owner and I have an embarrassing question to ask. I just bought my Outback a couple of weeks ago. It has the 4-cylinder engine with a manual transmission. Recently I was accelerating onto a highway when I tried to shift from 3rd to 4th gear. I somehow missed 4th gear and lightly bumped reverse instead (not hard). There was a very brief metallic sound as I bumped reverse but I instantly backed off as soon as I heard the sound. I checked the shifting afterwards and everything seems to work correctly including reverse.

My question, did I do any damage to the transmission? I love this car and I want to keep it a long, long time.

J

goosegog · April 2002

sukibear: I have the filters and they do keep the interior much cleaner, especially if you do any driving on dirt roads. I bought the kit a few months after getting the car and put them in myself. I was going to replace them after year and asked the dealer to supply them while the car was in for service. But they put them in anyway and I refused to pay for the labour. I had wanted to see how much dust they had actually collected, but of course I couldn't because they'd chucked the old ones.

There are two filters that go in behind the glove box. You have to remove some trim and the glove box itself. Not difficult but takes about 60 minutes the first time. Instructions are included. At one time I had posted photos of the entire procedure but the hosting site went kaput. I still have the pictures though.

goosegog · April 2002

jimw11: Probably you have done no damage. At that speed you'd never get into reverse, you just heard the teeth on the gears zipping past each other as you pressed them together. If you broke a piece off one of them you may find out in short order if it gets sucked up into your transmission, but I think it's unlikely. Everyone who drives a standard has done something like that at least once and I've never encountered any consequences other than a red face (and more recently a disdainful sneer from one of my standard-driving kids).

If you are really paranoid you could get the transmission oil changed and then go looking for metal parts in it.

subarullbean02 · April 2002

I just purchased the OB Bean and the manual recommends Premium over Regular gas. Are most H6-3.0 owners out there using premium versus plus and regular?

I've only had the car for 3 days now and am wondering why I didn't get a Subaru a long time ago.

kturner1 · April 2002

Is there anyone out there who hasn't clashed their gears? I've done it a couple times with no apparent ill effects. I'm not sure about reverse but forward "gear" clashing is actually synchro clash. Synchros help equalize the rpms of the gear rotating to the shaft's rpms. The gears are continually meshed and won't actually clash. Your tranny is probably fine. Just don't make a habit of it. There's a "how things work" website around somewhere that explains this.

c_hunter · April 2002

As others have mentioned, your transmission is probably OK. It's the kind of thing that will fester in your mind and make you wonder, but I know a lot of people (including myself) that have ground the gears a little and have never heard of a real problem or transmission failure.

My father had an 89 or 90 Dodge Daytona and the orginal transmission had a loose bolt floating around in it. It got jammed up and broke a few gears. Talk about a racket! Sounded like the shaking ball bearings in a metal can. The car still drove fine, however, which I found amazing. Chrysler installed a new transmission no charge, and sent the old unit back to HQ for a full engineering analysis.

Craig

sbrob · April 2002

I have the 02 Bean with 2k miles. Have run both types of fuel in it and noticed no difference. Why pay more?

fibber2 · April 2002

I knew that I couldn't afford to spring for an OBW with the 6 as I had to replace another car in the same year. So to keep it simple, I never drove one! Figured it would just bother me if I did so, loved it, and then couldn't swing it. :-)

But seriously, I am very impressed with the mid-range torque of the H4 w/auto. No, it is not a hot rod off the line, but is amazingly competent at hill climbing in 4th (with a mild punch to kick out the torque converter lockup). And for $22+k, it is a hell of a bargin!

Steve

sukibear · April 2002

I'm sure that you have a perfectly good reason for leaving Oregon for Atlanta. (I could only come up with either a) Love, or b) Money).

Anyway back here in beautiful Oregon, I just bought a brand new and blue Outback wagon. I've taken it up to Mt Bachelor four times in the five weeks that I have owned it. I have the standard H4 and it has cruised effortlessly over the pass with two people, a bunch of ski/snowboard equipment and a big red chow chow. It passes going uphill no problem - I even blew by a Passat 4 Motion V6!

So, since by your own account Georgia is hardly a mountain region, it seems that you would be perfectly happy with the 4 cylinder. Unless you have five grand you just HAVE to get rid of....

kim

jimw11 · April 2002

Thank you everyone for your responses to my question regarding clashing gears. This is a great forum and I cannot believe I waited this long to buy a Subaru.

c_hunter · April 2002

Steve brings up a really good point, and that is the "value" factor. I still look back on my first Outback (2000 Base/5-spd) as one of the best bargains around. I always felt like I got a LOT of car for the money (think I paid around $22K also) and that is a very satisfying feeling. Compare it to any other $22-24K vehicle out there and you get the idea. The Outback is refined and well equipped, with a lot of nice touches and amenities. Add in AWD, and you have a really compelling choice.

Now that I have an LL Bean, I see a big stretch in the Outback lineup in terms of value. The base model is hard to beat, and I feel like the Bean/VDC models are in a bargain Lexus/Acura league (actually better in many ways). The Limited H4 models seem to be in the hazy middle, where I would probably not shop. My instincts are to go for the base and get a terrific bargain, or go all the way and get the H6. That also looks like a bargain compared to the $35-40K competition, especially since the bean price gets down in the $27K range when you haggle.

Craig

ateixeira · April 2002

Some nice improvements to the 2003 models:

* chrome trim rings around speedo and tach
* new grill, better integrated
* new bumper, also better integrated
* more models get standard subwoofer, like VDC
* VDC gets 6 CD changer standard
* GT model (only) gets shiftronic and VTD AWD!
* GT gets new wheels, nicer

I'm trying to remember if the GT also had the AWP and leather seats, if so I'll have to test drive one with my wife. Those just might sway her.

-juice

ffsteve · April 2002

I opted for the Bean with the 6 cylinder engine, although in the test drives at the dealer didn't notice a lot of difference (but they were a month apart...). It was the comparison to other makes and models that sold me on the Bean. I do enjoy the overall level of comfort and convenience of the Bean, and appreciate driving it in daily driving and fun trips to the mountains/desert.

Since premium grade fuel is specified, that's what I use. I don't feel the need to second-guess the manufacturer on this point and try using a lesser grade. Many here have reported favorably on the use of regular, so in my case I won't feel too bad if I find myself in a remote area where only regular is available.

I just purchased the Yakima racks for two bicycles on the roof. Successfully carried them on a recent camping trip in the desert, requiring a climb over the local mountains. Gas mileage suffered by about 2mpg and noticed just a bit of tippiness on sharp corners, but overall I'm very satisfied. If I didn't have a model glider amongst all the camping gear in the back I would have had no hesitation taking the corners even more aggressively. Last weekend we had two bikes on the rack, one inside, and still had room for three people in the car.

As someone else wrote above, I frequently ask myself why I never bought a Subaru before!

Steve

chuckb5 · April 2002

Ateixera,
Looked at your posted changes and for the Outback they all look cosmetic. I was holding out for a suspension change and I guess that is not happening this year. Unless some other changes surface I will purchase the 02 this summer. Where did you find these changes?

rk_goa · April 2002

I am curious if the hood is aluminum. It is lighter and is claimed to improve handling.

nzblade · April 2002

Dear

Anyone :-)
I have a 1993 Legacy TS wagon, well, thats what it is called down here anyway. Its a 2.0ltr, 5 speed manual, normally aspirated wagon.
I've just spent a fortune re-doing all the power steering and brakes etc and I'm wondering what other things I can do to make the car faster, handle better. Is the mode one that I can do anythine to, will it sustain a different engine etc etc, or am I just wasting my time thinking about it ?

Thanks in advance... :-)

rsholland · April 2002

we don't know all the changes for '03 yet. They may(?) also have those suspension changes too. Juice and I both saw the '03s at the NY auto show yesterday.

Bob

99gs · April 2002

Juice posted that the new GT's are going to have VTD AWD and a shiftronic. Would someone compare and contrast VTD, regular AWD, and VDC. Thanks Jack.

paisan · April 2002

VTD: Has a torque split (from start) of 45/55 and uses a planetary gear combined with elecronically controlled clutch plates to transfer torque between the front and rear axles. Cannot vary power from left to right side of a given axle. Weight sensors to sense F<->R weight shifts and ECU to "learn" when to shift power F<->R

VDC: VTD + uses throttle and brake controls to shift power left to right on a given axle and prevent skids. In '02 models there is an "off" switch for the VDC portion up to 30mph.

Std AWD on AutoTranny: 80/20 torque split that can be varied. Electronically controlled clutch pack to vary power F<->R. Weight sensors to sense F<->R weight shifts and ECU to "learn" when to shift power F<->R.

Manual Transmission: Viscous Center Coupling, 50/50 torque split. Uses a viscous fluid that transfers power based on variances in axle speeds, always striving to maintain 50/50 split. F<->R power shifts only.

LSD: Limited Slip Differential, employed by some models (All Weather Package Outbacks, Legacy GT, Outback Limited, LL Bean, WRX) in the rear to provide L<->R power shifts based on traction, will move power from a slipping to non slipping wheel in the rear.

-mike

paisan · April 2002

The VDC/VTD and MT AWD systems provide a more even torque split and more of a RWD car feel when driving comared to the more FWD car feel of the Std Automatic Tranny AWD system.

-mike

mikenk · April 2002

Mike,

Thanks for a nice summary. Making something complicated sound simple enough for basic understanding is difficult.

Mike

paisan · April 2002

I'm sure there will be some "more technical" descriptions, but those are the nity grity of the systems in laymans terms.

-mike

ateixeira · April 2002

Chuck: we couldn't tell if the suspension was changed or not. All the Outbacks on the floor were 2003s, so we could not compare them directly.

We asked and the hood was not aluminum, only the Forester and WRX, per their show notes (which they had to help them answer questions).

The Legacy 2.5 GT was indeed leather, thanks to paisan for checking on that. It had the AWP too, a big plus for a line of cars long neglected (Outback seems to get all the attention). Still no map pockets on the back of the front seats like the Outback, though.

So the Legacy gets a lot more than just cosmetic updates. I bet it's more popular this year. With VTD, Shiftronic, leather, and the AWP, it's very appealing.

paisan mentioned, and I hope he's right, that if leather goes on the GT, maybe Subaru is saving the Limited nameplate for an H6. It it keeps the shiftronic, that would be the sweetest model in the entire lineup, IMO.

-juice

senturi · April 2002

The Australian Subaru website www.subaru.com.au deserves a look. The latest models are on view.
Good views of interior and exterior.

Good luck.

rsholland · April 2002

there is no GT Limited, I wonder if there will still be an Outback Limited?

Bob

Subaru Legacy/Outback

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