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Subaru Legacy/Outback

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Comments

  • oregonmanoregonman Member Posts: 60
    Just got my new 2002 Outback and want to get a hitch for it. I was wondering which hitch will fit the best. I am most concerned with getting the best fit - as close up against the bottom of the bumper as possible and not sticking out past the bumper (without the drawbar, of course). Price is not the primary concern, but if I can get as good a fit and it is not too difficult, I might install it myself and save some money. Any recommendations?
  • kmcleankmclean Member Posts: 173
    Doug -

    The clutch chatter definitely happens in reverse. Our OB overnights in our driveway, nose-in to the garage door, and begins its day by backing up a fairly steep driveway. If I'm thinking about it, I can avoid the chatter, but as I don't drive the car a lot (it belongs to the boss), I often forget and get a chattering reminder of my inattentiveness. It can also have in first gear, as noted elsewhere.

    Here's a follow-up to someone's earlier post about sloshing sounds in his OB. We had some pretty strange WX in seattle yesterday - thunder, hail, downpours, etc. - not the usual sort of thing out here. The boss mentioned that the car was sloshing on her drive from the Park 'n Ride to the house (the car had been out in all this wild WX). I patronizingly told her I'd check it out, and, by golly, she was absolutely correct. She had mentioned it as a "hill" phenomenon - I simulated it by abrupt braking. I was amazed! Reminded me of the beach! I parked it and looked underneath (it was NOT any of the doors - I checked those first). The water was dripping from just inboard and behind the front left wheel, and at another spot just aft - a few inches in from the rocker panel. I plan to check this out further (maybe do a few experiments), but will also call the dealer to see it this rings a bell - perhaps we're either missing a plug - or have a clogged drain plug somewhere. More on this later.

    Ken in Seattle
  • rob999rob999 Member Posts: 233
    Hidden Hitch
    1800hitchit.com

    Almost not noticeable.
    Piece o' cake to install.
    No cutting of lower valance req'd.
    Order the wiring adapter/plug connection too - plugs right in to the OEM wiring plug located behind the right rear cargo trim panel.
  • idahodougidahodoug Member Posts: 537
    Ken,

    Sounds like you have plugged drain. The sunroof has several drains (one at each corner I believe) and the grille at the base of the windshield also has one at each side of the car. Generally, automakers have these routed to the rockers and then slit type drains in the rockers to the street. Check the places it's dripping and use a toothpick or other non-metallic (avoids scratching paint off drainhole edges) thin item to clear the drains.

    You must routinely leave the car under a pine tree or other foilage, eh?

    IdahoDoug
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    Note: a half to near empty tank will/can induce sloshing too. It's a different animal, but thought it would be good to know to fill the tank first so as to not go phantom hunting.

    -Dave
  • ronpianoronpiano Member Posts: 1
    Glad to know about the drains in the sun roof. My 2002 LL Bean has its drain right in the sun roof map light/overhead switch panel. It drains straight down into the coffee cup holder if I'm lucky, otherwise my right leg winds up getting wet. I've brought it to my dealer already to be fixed; at least that's what they told me. This past week we had some rain-guess what? Watered down coffee and wet legs.
  • idahodougidahodoug Member Posts: 537
    Either your drains are blocked at the rocker and the tubes all the way up to the sunroof level are full (unlikely), or one or more of your drains are plugged up at the sunroof level.

    Open the roof fully in a dark area and use a penlight to find the drains in the front two corners of the sunroof opening. You're looking for something blocking it.

    In fairly rare cases, the drain tube becomes disconnected at the sunroof level. Very bad news as it's tough to get reconnected. While the sunroof is open you could use a tube, funnel and glass of water to place small amounts of water right at the drainhole to see if it will go down it without causing problems.

    The blockages at the sunroof are sometimes a surplus screw or nut accidentally left somewhere up there during assembly.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Wow, Doug, what a story! Unreal! I hope it didn't do any damage to your engine or fuel system. You may consider replacing the fuel filter and adding a can of Techron for the next fill up.

    oregon: the OE hitch will offer the best fit. You'll find better prices from Hidden Hitch or Draw Tite, but the OE hitch offers a perfect custom fit. Even the departure angle is unaffected - the exhaust tip protrudes farther. and you really only see the receiver.

    -juice
  • goosegoggoosegog Member Posts: 206
    The post Ken referred to was mine. I have not found the source yet although I was 99% certain it was the fuel tank as the sound was from the rear and disappeared when the tank was full to the brim. We don't have a sunroof so that's not it.

    But...I mentioned to the missus just a couple of days ago that I hadn't heard the noise for a week or two and she concurred. The weather has been a bit dryer of late (meaning heavy rain only every two or three days, this being Vancouver) and the car is left outside all the time. Our driveway slopes down steeply and the car is parked nose in most of the time. Also, as IdahoDoug suggests, it gets covered in pine needles in short order (no way to avoid this unless I park outside someone else's house) and although I do attempt to clean out the drains around the windshield and the tail lights it is impossible to do it properly without dismantling half the car.

    The drains in the doors are clear but it is very hard to spot where water should drain out (or not - even harder!) under the car. So I still don't know why this noise appeared magically earlier this year after two years of ownership and now seems to have gone away again. If it isn't the fuel tank perhaps composted pine needles have found their way into the rocker panels and finally blocked the drains.

    Next time I wash the car I'll drive it immediately after.
  • idahodougidahodoug Member Posts: 537
    Goose,

    It's simple to check the drains in the cowl. Pour a half glass of water in the cowl on one side of the vehicle and look behind the front tire on that side for a stream coming out to the ground. If it all comes out rapidly on that side the drain's fine. If it takes a long time dribbling out then there's a partial blockage. Repeat on the other side.
  • viktoria_rviktoria_r Member Posts: 103
    I will be installing hitch on my 01 OB Wagon shortly - got a quote from U-haul for $145 (no wiring - i only plan to use it for bike rack; with wires/ball/etc was quoted $200). I will let you know how it went.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Those prices are cheap. You may want to get the harness just in case you ever need to tow - you could use it to bring a rented chipper/shredder home, for example, or help a friend move.

    -juice
  • hammersleyhammersley Member Posts: 684
    Doug: Your HVAC backlight is a very inexpensive bulb that takes a technician about 1 to 1.5 hours to get in to & back out of. My dealer estimated about 80 bucks. A screwdriver & patience may be cheaper. Some day when I have the time, I might dive in to mine, since it's out as well.

    Cheers!
    Paul
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Aren't they cold soldiered in place? Could you change it yourself?

    -mike
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    I installed the Subaru OEM hitch myself. Nothing fits better than this part. It does require a little plastic cutting of the bumper underside skirt, but the payback is a tight-to-the-body, neat fit.

    I was a little disappointed with the drawbar that Subaru provides (it is not reverseable - can only be used in 'step-up', not 'step-down' mode), but $20 to Reese fixed that little glitch.

    Steve
  • subyaudidudesubyaudidude Member Posts: 136
    but I'll be the first to admit that I'm just too lazy to go back and search through them all for the answer to my question, so I'll just pose it here.

    What is a good set of replacement tires for the Firestones? I'd prefer something that didn't squeal in the corners like the Firestones, but I have no idea what to get. FWIW - Tire Rack has the General XP 2000 H4 on sale for $49/tire, as well as the Kumho Ecsta HP4 716 at the same price. Both are HR speed rated. I don't want to spend a bunch, but I won't skimp on safety/grip/etc. either.
  • idahodougidahodoug Member Posts: 537
    I put Michelin X1's on my Legacy a couple days back and true to form they're superb. Great tracking, super quiet, nice ride quality (less thumping on expansion joints) and the thing I always buy Michelins for - perfectly round. You'd be surprised how often tires are slightly out of round. From the driver's seat you won't notice it at first as the rubber absorbs minor imperfections. But over miles it will wear slightly unevenly, get slightly out of balance, and gives less traction during the slight bouncing phase of tire rotation. The slight vibrations are noticeable for the last 2/3 of the tire's life but there's nothing you can do about it then.

    Michelin is the best at making perfectly round tires. Ask a tire shop guy who mounts tires all day which ones are always round on the spinner and which require the least weights consistently. I also used to look at industry survey data when I worked for the factories.

    Anyhow, these are a bit spendy but they should provide 80,000 miles of service according to the warranty. They use an advanced silica rubber that simultaneously grips better (usually the province of soft tires rubber) and wear well (usually the province of less grippy harder rubbers).
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    A tire shop once pointed out to me an interesting tidbit about tire construction. Most tires are molded as 'two halves', with a seam running the circumference of the tire down the center of the tread. I am not sure if this is still the case, but Michelin used segmented molds, the tire being made of maybe 6 'pieces', with the seams running laterally across the tread/sidewall. The claim was that this helped them better control rubber mass and sizing uniformity.

    Steve
  • idahodougidahodoug Member Posts: 537
    My owner's manual is a little unclear on this issue (surprise!). Anyone know if it's OK to tow an AWD Subaru automatic with the front wheels on a dolly and the rears on the ground. In the manual, it mentions to be sure to top off the diffs and tranny, put it in neutral, have the key on the ACC position. Fine. But then it says "take up slack on the towline slowly.." indicating this is part of the instructions for flat towing on all 4 wheels below. Since the manual switches pages in the middle of this, I'm not clear on how and what to do for a tow dolly.

    I'll be towing it across the country. Also, there's some way to disable the AWD system and make the car go to FWD only mentioned in the manual. If this is a physical disconnect of the rear shaft and such, I'd be curious if it will enter into my decisionmaking. Anyone know about this? There's a thing under the hood labeled "FWD" which I believe is for mechanics to use for a dynomometer.

    Other tips would be appreciated.

    IdahoDoug
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    You cannot tow any subaru with 2 wheels on the ground, unless you want to buy a new transmission. The AT version can be towed with the rear on the ground for a short period of time with the fuse in the FWD slot under the hood and the key in the ACC position and the rear wheels on the ground. This is for emergency purposes and for use with the donut tire. MTs can be flat towed only. They all should be flatbedded if they are going long distances.

    -mike
  • sugardogsugardog Member Posts: 41
    I addressed this issue in 99 when I bought my outback limited. I have always bought the shop manual with a new car, but for this car, none was available, still isn't, from helms anyway.
    back to subject, jack points.
    I asked the dealer service manager, all he would tell me is the notches on the side of the car indicate the jack points, this is the politically correct answer, fear of law suits if someone damages their car jacking it up wrong, they will try to blame the service manager who told them 'where to place the jack'.
    Anyway, I snuck into the service bay when a tech had one on the lift and he showed me where he puts the lift, then the service manager chased me away and gave the tech hell, but I found out what I needed to know.
    In front, there are two frame looking members branching out diagonally from the front of the car to about halfway back, you can put the jack under either side, unfortunately, there is not a single jack point for the entire front or rear,
    if you want to jack up one end you need two jacks, which I have.
    In the back, there is a flat spot right inside where the notch is, you can put the jack there.
    I am really curious what the shop manual is going to say, eventually HAYNES should come out with one, today, it only goes up to 1996.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    In my owner's manual for the XT6 there is a Jack point that ties together the 2 front cross members and in the rear they say to lift it via the center diffy.

    For the sides I place the jack on the pseudo-frame rails and lift the whole side of the car.

    -mike
  • idahodougidahodoug Member Posts: 537
    Mike,

    Thanks for the input - got any more thoughts about the following?

    My original plan (plan A) was to remove the rear drive shaft at the rear diff. This would mean only the rear diff is spinning and there's nothing turning from there forward. I have not looked, but assume I'll find the normal drive shaft with 4 bolts holding flanges when I get under there. If this is done, I cannot imagine that any harm would come to anything for a tow across country.

    Plan B came along when I noted there was some way to put the car in FWD, but from what you say it would still not be a good idea. No big deal so back to plan A which in my mind is a guarantee nothing untoward will happen to the tranny.

    Do you know if the vehicle can be driven short distances (just to take it off the tow dolly and put it on the dolly) with the rear driveshaft disconnected and the temporary FWD thing engaged? Any idea how to engage the FWD thing (technical term - heh)? You mentioned a fuse in the FWD slot under the hood..? Thanks in advance,

    IdahoDoug
  • idahodougidahodoug Member Posts: 537
    Well, so far at least. On the '96 it took about 25 minutes to remove the 10 total screws, open the back of the vent control unit, and remove three burnt out bulbs. Assuming tomorrow I can get or order these at the Subaru dealer this will be a 1 banana job. It should only take about 15 minutes to reassemble with fresh bulbs. Thanks to those who encouraged me to dig into it by telling me they're replaceable - they certainly are!

    I'm new to Subarus as of 3 weeks ago, but I must say this is my 4th experience working on something where I've nodded my head and thought "Wow, THAT was clearly designed to be worked on easily - nice job Subaru." They designed the back of the unit to open up and provide enough room to carefully reach down in there and pull the bulbs out. The unit is simply hanging out of the dash with all connections still in place. Good thing as I was dreading removing the air control cable. Anyhow, I'm liking the Subaru world so far..

    Curiously, each bulb was not simply painted green for night lighting but actually covered with a green rubber sock that looks like a condom for a grain of rice. I was able to easily pull one off to confirm the bulb is burnt out, then put it back on (no comments, please). I'll be curious if the new bulbs come with or without these little buggers.

    IdahoDoug
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Doing the drive-shaft removal would definitely work. There won't be any harm done if the rear wheels are just spinning freely. I'm not sure if the driveshaft in the rear will want to turn with the FWD fuse in place. To be safe I would drive it onto the dolly, then get under there and disconnect the rear diffy from the driveshaft and tie it up with wire. That way there is no chance of a problem occuring. It may be a PITA to do this if you are gonna be driving cross country and need to use the car everyday when you stop. If you'll be making stops where the car is needed less often then it shouldn't be too bad.

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Make sure the rear diffy is filled with gear oil even after you pull the drive shaft. It'll be moving so it needs lubrication.

    I believe you insert a fuse to make it FWD, but I'm not sure which or how many amps.

    I wouldn't drive it like that, though. Take a bicycle with you for quick errands and such. Driving it up the ramp? Maybe, but listen for any strange drive train noises.

    Nice job on the dash lights. And I'm glad to hear Subaru practices safe sex. ;-)

    Sam: sneaky but effective. I've used those cross members to jack the front up, too.
  • hammersleyhammersley Member Posts: 684
    Mike: Towed mine (97MT) almost 1800 miles, 4 wheels down behind the RV last summer without a hitch (well, we used a hitch, but you know what I mean) :)
    One of the RV magazines publishes an annual list of "towable" cars, and the Subaru MT's (sans the WRX) have been on that list for years.

    Cheers!
    Paul
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    But the MT is 100% different from the AT. Don't try the same trip with an auto.

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    We are talking about the AT here.

    -mike
  • mikenkmikenk Member Posts: 281
    When I bought my 2001 VDC, my dealer (Central Kia/Subaru, Plano, TX) gave me a sheet that described their maintenance schedule which inluded more than the manual recommended. The 15K service was $169.

    I took it in this morning to have it done and they have changed the policy. They now have a large card that displays on one side the owners manual recommendations and associated cafeteria pricing; the other side shows their packaging pricing. Their 15k package was now $139, but the cafeteria approach allowed much cheaper prices for the basics. I liked it: it left the decision making to me and gave them the opportunity to honestly sell their additions. I don't know whether this is a new Subaru policy or the dealer approach.

    Mike
  • nygregnygreg Member Posts: 1,936
    I just installed Dunlop Sport A2s on my 01 Outback. Tires are much quieter and smoother riding than the OEMs. I am still playing with the pressures to get the best handling / comfort. Max pressure on these is 44PSI, so I will try 40PSI next (currently at 35 PSI). Seem to be good in the rain. Of course, they are only 2 weeks old and I don't know what the snow performance is. The OB seems to like them though.

    Greg
  • nygregnygreg Member Posts: 1,936
    I like that approach. When will these dealers realize that many people do understand cars and the games that are played. Honesty is and always will be the best policy. Good for Central Subaru!

    Greg
  • goosegoggoosegog Member Posts: 206
    Well, I did the glass-of-water test as suggested by Idahodoug. The car was not level but facing downhill in the driveway. My first glass of water had no effect for about 30 seconds and then water dripped slowly out at the front of the left wheel well under the bumper. A second glass produced a few drips from the rear as well. I don't think the quantity that emerged was close to the amount I put in.

    When I tried the right hand side of the car water appeared almost immediately at the rear of the wheel well. It seems most of the water from the windshield area goes down the wiper holes in the middle and left side, and not much through the small ones on the right. The slots in the middle also appear to drain to the left side.

    Assuming that the drains are partially blocked how to find where to unblock? I can see that the black plastic piece below the windshield would probably come off easily and the top area could be cleaned but what about much lower down? The dripping water seemed to exit from behind the front and rear of the plastic wheel well insert, which is probably not easily removed.

    Apart from sloshing noises a bigger concern might be water retention in these areas causing rust problems within a few years.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Greg: I'll be waiting to hear how you like them. My Miata will need tires soon.

    -juice
  • idahodougidahodoug Member Posts: 537
    Goose - sounds like you have a bit of blockage on the left side, eh? Can't help you on unplugging it or accessing the area. Perhaps with a strong light or penlight at night (less extraneous light) you could see down in the grilles and find a small pile of pine needles. Using a coat hanger or something might allow you to clear out the drain after getting as much debris out as possible.

    Paison - Just got back from the dealer. The lights do come with those little green rubber condoms - $6.50 for all three bulbs and they've upgraded them so they'll last "forever" now. Also, confirmed that I can just disconnect the rear drive shaft and put a 10amp fuse under the hood in the thing marked "FWD" and drive it around to my heart's content that way. So, the rears will be on the ground whirling away a diff full of fresh Mobil 1 synthetic gear oil for 2100 miles, and we can still drive it around if needed enroute.

    Tires - I put Michelin X1s on my '97 Legacy Wagon Monday and am extremely pleased. According to the Michelin website, these have the best all season traction of all their all season tires, and also beat the rest of their offerings on several other factors. They were a bit over $100 each by the time they were mounted and balanced and the tax was paid. I looked at them on TireRack, but by the time I paid shipping and then paid a shop to mount them the difference was around $10 a tire. I felt it was worth it to have my usual local shop sell and install them as this means I get lifetime free rotations and balancing, free road hazard. These have been notably more quiet than the original factory tires I removed, softer riding, and more stable at speed. Can't yet speak for rain and snow, but they use a special silica compound specifically designed to excel under these conditions (anti-hydroplane design as well).

    I'm a tire freak (OK, several other car related item freak also) and can unequivocally say these are seriously good tires. To give you an idea what a tire nut I am, nearly every car I've ever bought has gone straight from the dealership to the tire store for my choice of rubber.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    No offense but dealers don't know jack. I knew you could disco it and tow it, but as far as driving in FWD mode that is a NO-NO for more than a few miles in dire straights.

    -mike
  • idahodougidahodoug Member Posts: 537
    The way he explained it is this. On AT models, the rear drive shaft gets power through an electrohydraulic clutch pack. Putting a fuse in the FWD holder underhood means this clutch pack stays fully open - transfering zero torque to the rear shaft. That's it.

    The FWD feature is designed for use on a dyno, or for other diagnostics. It can be driven this way indefinitely. You just have a front wheel drive Subaru with zero power diverted to the rear shaft. He also said it can be used if you have a flat on the rear and need to drive it that way for an emergency, which would prevent the different wheel diameter issue.

    Having said that, I agree with being skeptical of dealers. I'll be testing things here at the house before towing in a couple weeks. One of my biggest questions is does "zero power to the rear" mean literally zippo or is there some residual spinning of the driveshaft from the clutch pack? If the drive shaft simply hangs there limply when I run it around the driveway, I'm good. If it wants to spin the shaft a bit then I'm toast and obviously holding the disconnected driveshaft up with wire will be a bad thing as it may pop itself loose. If so, we're limited to putting the Subaru up and down on and off the dolly and cannot drive it around unless I completely remove the entire rear shaft. So, I'll let you know how this test goes.

    Is there anything else you can think of that might be an issue? Thanks.

    IdahoDoug
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    There will be residual effects on the shaft. It may be good enough to get it on and off the dolly. Patti from SOA will eventually chime in and can check with the engineers about driving it indefinitely w/o rwd.

    -mike
  • cptpltcptplt Member Posts: 1,075
    its pretty good, one season I was too lazy putting the Blizzaks on and while I had my other car with winter tires to use when it was real bad, the X ones did quite well if the roads weren't atrocious.
  • idahodougidahodoug Member Posts: 537
    The new bulbs went in w/o a hitch. Everything works fine and it was a 1 banana job to the end. Total time was less than 1 hour and now I could do another one in about 30 minutes. Only difficult challenge is not dropping any screws into the dash. A dab of grease on the Phillips screwdriver helps with that.

    If anyone contemplates doing this, let me know and I'll do a post with details.

    Cptplt - did you by chance drive the X1s on any ice? How many miles on them when you used them for this partial winter? What conditions did they fall down in? I'm hoping to get away with them for this coming winter, though we have a lot of ice here and it is obviously unforgiving to nonwinter tires.

    IdahoDoug
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Good job, Doug!

    -juice
  • nine51nine51 Member Posts: 77
    FWIW, I had X-1's on my 96 Impreza Outback (Outback Sport) a few years ago. When they were new, they were GREAT in the rain. No problems with hydroplaning. They were marginal on snow, only slightly better than the original equipment Bridgestones. They were quiet, and had a nice ride, but were not a "performance " tire. After they had 25 to 30K miles on them, the winter performance deteriorated to poor. I got rid of them at around 40K miles, since winter was coming, and I didn't want to drive on them through another winter. I believe they have a 70 or 80K tread wear life, but only if you drive in a warm dry climate. If not, plan on replacing them at 1/2 their tread life. The small groves (sipes) that they use for tread began to wear and squeeze together and close up, leaving me with a tire that was almost a slick, and it became a hair raising experience to try to stop on snow. The construction of the tire was good. I always felt it was a safe tire from a construction perspective, but I wasn't to crazy about the tread design. The tires were rotated and balanced every 7500 miles and the alignment checked / adjusted every 15K.
  • cptpltcptplt Member Posts: 1,075
    sorry, can't say I really had them on ice too much, it was my "good weather" spare vehicle (it was a 92 L sedan). When it was bad I always took out my 98 GT wagon with Arctic Alpins.I probably had put maybe 25K on these tires before I sold it recently, but most winters it had Blizzak WS15s.I am definitely getting them for the wifes minivan though when the stock Goodyear tires need replacing.In good weather and rain I would say they are almost up to the Pilot XGT H4s on my 98 though I didn't drive it like a madman! They are both a thousand times better in rain/snow than the MXV garbage I have had on previous cars!
  • babaorileybabaoriley Member Posts: 74
    IdahoDoug,
    Why not rent a full vehicle trailer instead of a dolly? It just seems safer, less problematic. Unless you own the dolly.

    -Brett
  • hammersleyhammersley Member Posts: 684
    Mike: Another "duh" moment - sorry.

    Doug: Thanks for the confidence-builder post on those lights. May have to take the plunge.

    Cheers!
    Paul
  • idahodougidahodoug Member Posts: 537
    Thanks for the input in the X1's. It would be great to get through a single year without purchasing more than one set of new tires. I think I'm singlehandedly making the tire store owner's mortgage payment at this point. I've heard Michelin may make the Arctic Alpin Pilot available in 14" this year, but will try to make a winter with the X1's if they don't get it out before winter. You may have seen my other posts on wheel offsets - the hidden agenda there is that I may buy some used 15" steel Forester wheels and put the already available 15" Pilots on them. Call me strange, but I actually like that styled steel wheel - reminds me of the alloys on my '97 Audi Quattro Wagon a bit - plus they should be cheap.

    Paul - do the lights. The new ones you'll get from the dealer have replaced the ones you have in there and they shouldn't burn out for the life of the car. Plus you get to see those cool little green rubber socks on the bulbs, and clean dust out of the center vents. Let me know and I'll lead you through it, or come out to CDA and we'll do it together.

    Brett,

    Yes, a full size trailer would be a good call. I have a large enough flatbed trailer (carried my '71 Pontiac LeMans Convertible with it), but the way the Subaru is getting to Michigan is a bit circuitous. It's for my mother in Michigan, but I found it locally here in Idaho. My sister and her family are doing a Western loop in their motorhome a couple weeks from now, and hitting Yellowstone just before heading back to Michigan. So I'm renting a UHaul dolly one way from here. Then I'm towing the Subaru to Yellowstone with my LandCruiser to meet them for about 12 hours (the National Lampoon Summer Vacation equivalent to the Grand Canyon "OK Honey, let's go" tour). Then I get up and hustle back to Idaho and they pull the Subaru home to Michigan.

    The reason it needed to be able to move itself enroute is that they are not the best with backing the trailer and prefer to pull it off the dolly if things get dicey at a campground. Yes, I'm going to be chewing my fingernails until they get home on that one. The Subaru is a creampuff and I spent a methodical 3 months looking for it.

    That's why the tow dolly - the 1 way factor. I would have to go get my trailer back from Michigan if I use mine. And there are few more miserable tows than pulling an empty tandem trailer - jiggles the tow vehicle like mad with no weight on it.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Renting a flatbed? I've done it several times for my XT6s. Also the advantage is that if they whack anything it will be the trailer not the car! But the backing thing could be a problem, although I bet they could just disconnect the trailer in the parking lot and leave it til the left the campground?

    -mike
  • hammersleyhammersley Member Posts: 684
    Doug: CDA? Jeez, you're right down the road from me... mom & the kids were there playing yesterday!
    I'm in the Valley, about 2.5 miles south of the mall... soon as things settle down a bit, I might take you up on that offer! I'll zip in to Appleway for the bulbs soon - at least I'll have that part done!

    Cheers!
    Paul
  • idahodougidahodoug Member Posts: 537
    Yesterday? Too funny. Yesterday my wife and I had date night - left the kids and went to Spokane to watch the Alaska thing on IMAX and have a picnic by the river. Perhaps we should consider a house swap since we play in each other's back yards??

    If Appleway doesn't have them, the CDA dealer has a box full - perhaps 30 of each bulb.

    IdahoDoug
  • pica1pica1 Member Posts: 23
    I took a Legacy for a second test drive (this time with the wife and daughter). It's a 2002, and I like it a lot.

    The salesman also suggested the Forester. He said it had more passenger room than the Legacy, and the cargo room was about the same.

    I didn't have a tape measure with me, but to my eyes the Forester's cargo space looked TALLER than the Legacy's, but certainly not deeper. They look about the same width (wheel well to wheel well).

    So...is the salesman right about this? I'm trying to plan ahead for two small kids, a stroller, portable crib, etc.

    I took the Forester (2003 model) for a test drive as well. I'm not too sure about the interior materials. The "golf ball" dash and upper door material looks like a dust/dirt magnet to me, and the center consol plastic looks like it was borrowed from a Nissan Xterra/Altima.

    Still, the Forester has more standard features than the Legacy (2002), and better ground clearance (I live in NE Ohio, so occasionally we get a little snow ;-) ).

    Decisions, decisions...
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