Subaru Legacy/Outback

grahampeters · June 2002

G'day

Sounds like a good sales pitch. The Legacy is larger on the interior. Rear seat space, in particular is wider and more legroom. Cargo space is also larger overall.

Give him a prize though. What stock is he trying to shift?

Cheers

Graham

subyaudidude · June 2002

According to cars.com, the Legacy has more passenger volume (95.9 cu.ft. vs. 95.1 cu.ft) and more cargo volume (34.3 cu.ft vs. 33.2 cu.ft).

jay_24 · June 2002

The outback/legacy has more room but not by much. There is about 1 inch more legroom and 2 cubic feet cargo room in the outback/legacy. You can do a compare on Edmunds main page between the two models.

Test drive both and go with the one you like best.

I have the Outback with 2 small kids. It works fairly well for weekend trips. However kid #3 may push us over the edge and back into a bigger SUV or the mini van.

paisan · June 2002

Also don't forget the #s that are given are volumetric, which means that although the forester has almost as much interior passenger space, some of it is wasted up high above your head. The legacy has more practical passenger space front to rear.

-mike

kens · June 2002

True, the height of the Forester does increase both passenger and cargo volume, but it's not necessarily "wasted" space.

If you don't typically carry rear seat passengers, the Forester gives a much more sense of roominess for the front-riders due to the height and more vertical windshield slope. That's one of the reasons why I picked the Forester over the OB back in '98.

Also, the vertical height can come in handy in the cargo area. For me, it can be the difference of being able to fit two mountain bikes side by side in the back.

I do agree that the Legacy has more overall useable space, but just wanted to point out that being tall has it's advantages too. ;-)

Ken

ateixeira · June 2002

That salesman has it reversed. The Legacy has more passenger room, especially rear leg room. It's also wider.

The Forester's cargo area is IMO boxier and more usefully shaped, but the strut towers protrude and eat into the volume, as does the moonroof (still worth it IMO). Still, it'll fit a taller box more easily, like a freezer or a clothes washer.

The Legacy's cargo floor is wider because of the multilink rear suspension. You have a much bigger floor area, wider and deeper. But it's not as tall, so bulky boxes may not fit as well. But baby gear does.

I own both and recommend them. The Forester is better in the city, turns quicker, is lighter, more maneuverable. The Legacy is smoother, quieter, better on the highway and on trips. It's a tad more comfy for passengers. But the Forester is more fun for the driver.

But 2 kids? I'd go with the Legacy. Remember, you get rear disc brakes, and it's a little cheaper.

-juice

peterson10 · June 2002

Actually, the Forester was suppose to be my wife's car, but its too much fun to drive so we have agreed to "own" both jointly. The Forester is for blasting around town and getting to the trailhead or streamside; the Outback is for long range cruising (incredibly smooth and quiet) and, believe it or not, hauling lumber. Lumber, you ask? Yes, fold down the rear seat, slide the front passenger seat fully foreward and then recline it, and you have over eight feet of cargo length. The guys at the lumber yard USED to laugh at me when I'd pull up to the contractor's shed in my Subaru. I'd just smile, slide all fifteen 2x8s in, CLOSE the back hatch and wave goodbye. The slightly shorter Forester is better suited to hauling crates and the like. Its also custom-made for organizing flyfishing gear, but I'll save that for another post.
YetAnotherDave

viktoria_r · June 2002

Got hitch installed at local U-Haul - $150 total (I opted out of wires/ball/etc, need only for bike rack). I believe it's 2". The hitch is by Draw-tite, looks OK to me, price was OK IMO too.

ateixeira · June 2002

Sounds good, that is cheaper than the OE hitch, which is a Class I and has only a 1.25" receiver.

-juice

doneko · June 2002

From: "Doneko" <reply_to_list@please.com>

Subject: How to remove fake wood panel from dash?

Date: Saturday, June 15, 2002 9:37 AM

Hi,

I purchased a 1999 Subaru Legacy Outback Limited couple of months ago. The

previous owner poured some coke in the dashboard, so all the climate control

keys are sticky. I'd like to remove them as well as the CD player in order

to clean them. This is how far I got (I removed the cup holders):

http://www.qqriq.com/Pics/subaru_radio.jpg

How should I remove the fake wood panels? I tried to force them but I'm

afraid to break them.

Thanks for your help!

hypov · June 2002

Hehe you're in luck... maybe.
I just did what you're attempting to do.

Sorry juice, I couldn't wait and did the install.

Anyway Doneko, ok you got the cupholder unit out.
With a sturdy blade/knife, try to pop the top panel housing the vent duct and control module. Start from the left, insert the blade/knife at about the middle and gentle pry to dislodge the catch. You'll hear a pop. Then prey the right middle. Once both sides a release, slowly lift from bottom. There are wires connected to the hazard button.
To remove the vent control module, there are 4 screws (one at each corner). Use a magnetized phillip head screwdriver. Once you've got those screw out, slowly pull the control module out and disconnect the wiring behind. Just remember what goes where.
Now, for the CD. It's a big PITA.
I see you've got the ashtray removed. OK, now you got to get down and look at the top side of the ashtray's slot. There are 2 screws towards the opening of the slot. Use a 1" blade/stem phillip head screw driver to remove them.
Oh, before you do that. Engage (pull) your hand brakes. Insert key into ignition and turn to accessory, and shift gear to First. That will give you room to move, and you'll need the shifter there later anyway.
Realistically, you should be able to remove the section of the trim but it didn't work for me. So like me, if it does not come off, you will need to remove the panel encasing the shifter. But before you could remove that you'll have to remove the panel before that. Flip open the center storage compartment. You'll find 2 screws. Remove them and with a blade/knife inserted into the seam on the side, slowly pry away the panel. Once that is removed, do the same with the panel encasing the shifter. You'll have to rotate the panel 90 deg. so it will clear the shifter. Now slowly remove the trim from the top. You'll find that the power socket will come with it. You'll have to manuever the trim to get the bottom of the trim to clear the base and get the power socket out of it's interior slot. Once you've got the trim and power socket to clear, remove power socket wiring (remember which is which. use a tape to label).
OK, the audio unit. It is fastened by 6 screws, 4 front 2 aft.
Use a standard lenght phillip head screwdriver for the 4 front. Magnetized the screwdriver. It's no fun fishing for the screws if they drop. For the 2 aft, use an extra long phillip head screwdriver, again magnetized. Then slowly pull the unit out. There will be 2 set of wiring behind, one will dislodge on its own when you remove the unit whilst the other you'll have to depress and stub and pull.

Caution. Just underneath the ashtray area is the SRS unit. So be careful if you have fish for dropped screw. Try not to drop screw in there. Like I'd said earlier, it is no fun.

Oh, while you're at it. Please take pics of each step for juice. I couldn't cause I don't have a camera. Thanks

-Dave

idahodoug · June 2002

A couple of tips from having just done this a week ago.

I think the steps Dave mentioned are a bit out of order, though you may well be able to do it his way as well. Here's where we differ:

After removing the cupholder (you've done this, though the pic looks like the R side screw is back in?), you should pull the ashtray (or storage cubby -whichever yours came with) by pressing down on the lid that pops up and pulling it out of the way. Then look in the vacant hole for two Phillips screws on the "roof" of this vacant hole. If you don't have a small enough screwdriver, you can use a Vise Grips or pliers holding a driver bit from a power drill set. You only need to turn them a full revolution before you can take them out with your fingers.

NOW, you can grab the top edge of the wood trim piece that goes around the stereo and pull it toward you a few inches until you feel resistance. DON'T remove this panel or you'll have to pull the center console to get it back in.

Next, you can push both vents all the way down, and insert 2-3 fingers to grip the bottom edge of the vent holes in the trim and pull back and down at a 45 degree angle while rocking the piece side to side. It takes quite a bit of force, so focus on spreading the load across all your fingers to avoid breaking the trim piece. It will come out with a pop, then disconnect the wiring to the hazard switch as indicated above and continue.

The plastic clips you're trying to get to pop loose are at the vertical center of the vents. I chose not to pry as the trim seemed very easy to mar, so I quit and just pulled it out.

Anyhow, the upper trim panel you're working on is held down by the lower panel, and you can't tilt it out of the way until you remove those pesky ashtray area screws FIRST. That's not clear in Dave's post, so thought I'd pop in on 'ya.

I cleaned some coffee or Coke grundge out with a wet rag. I suggest disconnecting the battery lest you short something and cause yourself more problems. Good luck.

Tip for the day: If you don't have a magnetic screwdriver, try a dab of thick grease to hold the screws onto the tip.

hypov · June 2002

Thanks for chiming in.
I'm never always good at explanation(s).
That's why they never ask me to write procedure manuals at work

-Dave

oregonman · June 2002

Thanks for the hitch info everybody. I got the Hidden Hitch and installed it myself. It cost $130 including the drawbar, but not the ball. Installation was pretty easy with a helper - as others have noted, it is quite heavy.

I got a wiring kit made by Reese for $24. I thought that was a pretty good price considering the place I bought my hitch charges $60 for the Hidden Hitch brand wiring kit.

On the 2002 Outback the wiring connector is on the passenger side under the floor carpet panel. Anyone know the best way to route the wiring from there to the outside?

rob999 · June 2002

I did buy the Hidden Hitch wiring adapter and trailer plug - I don't know if it's the same length as the one you got. I coiled my wiring up on top of the spare tire. When trailering, I just pull the wire extension out under the tailgate and close the gate again.

Some folks may prefer a more permanent outside connection. However, I don't trailer all that much, and keeping it inside eliminates corrosion and road mung buildup on the connectors.

storyteller · June 2002

Rob: Good point about keeping your plug in the car to keep all the contacts clean. Another trick I'll mention although it might be well known: get a dummy mating plug on a short (12 inches) section of wiring harness. Tape that wire to your trailer wire harness right near the end. Spray contacts on both sides with WD40 or something similar and then keep the two plugs mated when you aren't trailering. Nothing is exposed to the air this way. Taping the dummy wire to your real harness wire just makes sure you don't lose the dummy.

Steve

ateixeira · June 2002

oregonman: on my Forester, at the bottom of the spare tire well was a rubber plug (Grommet). You remove that, and the OE harness kit includes a new grommet that replaced it, with a hole in the middle for the wiring. If you don't have one I'd try some surgery on the original plug, maybe drill a hole into it. Start small and enlarge as needed, because you want it water tight (mine is).

I used some grease to keep the contacts rust-free, but I forget if it was included with the kit or not.

-juice

rob999 · June 2002

Be sure to use DIELECTRIC grease for lubricating contacts on wiring connections. Dielectric grease does not conduct electricity. It's usually available at RatShack or your local hardware or trailer supply store.

Once upon a time I had a Chevy truck with a permanent 'outside' trailer connection. I thought it would be schmart to coat the inside of the connector with lith grease to prevent corrosion, and so I did. About a day later I noticed the turn signal and running lights operating erratically. While walking around the back of the truck I heard a sizzling sound, like bratwursts on a grill. I followed the sound to the trailer plug. Lo and behold, the inside of the plug was glowing cherry red- the whole plug melted together. The lith grease had shorted the circuit out. Had to get another plug and section of wiring harness. I don't know why, but the circuit breaker never blew out despite the wires melting.

ateixeira · June 2002

Now I'm pretty sure a little tube came with the hitch kit, because I don't have that grease in my shed.

-juice

oregonman · June 2002

Thanks again for the excellent info. I hooked the wiring adapter up and routed the wiring into the spare tire well. I found the grommet that juice refers to and that should work fine. Nice touch for Subaru to include a replacement grommet in the wiring kit.

I think that I'll leave it in the tire well for now and try running it out the tailgate at first and if I find that to be a problem, I'll run it through the grommet. Thanks again for all the help.

92cbt · June 2002

Hello:
My 01 Bean suffers from multiple clinks and clunks from the rear passenger side. I've removed every thing not bolted on and it still lives. Very annoying as you can hear it over the radio. The second set of noises comes from the front passenger door. By either getting a strong side wind at hi way speed or passing a large truck at 70 mph, I get a sound much like waxed paper on a pocket comb and it's LOUD. Dealer has checked all this out and of course can't find anything. The car has 11500 miles on it and I am considering dumping the rattle trap for a real car. Has anyone else had these problems or did I just pick the short straw.
thanks in advance

cptplt · June 2002

had a similar problem on my wifes minivan, could have sworn the noise was from below the van but it was actualy a loose crossbar on the roof!!

mikenk · June 2002

I have 01 VDC with 15K miles. No squeeks, rattles, or noticable wind noise.

I hope you find the source; that would be very annoying on a new car.

Mike

hypov · June 2002

a Kazoo?
Something flat or with flat edge and loose (molding, panel?...) would make such a noise when lifted by airflow causing it to flap (vibrate) and making the buzz on its own or when in contact with another surface. Check all edges thats in the direction agains't the airflow. To hear it @ 70 mph definitely isn't that loose to notice whilst the car is standing still.
I know I'm not much help, but from what you'd describe that (whatever flat surface) maybe what you should be looking at.

-Dave

idahodoug · June 2002

The kazoo sound is a classic. Next time it happens, try switching quickly from fresh air on the ventilation to recirc. If it changes, you just got a major hint that it may be the plastic film that is under the interior trim panels on each front door. Especially likely if you have a vent that goes into the door (open door and look for round rubber seal and obviously an opening in it near the hinges). This can do the kazoo sound. The fix is to have the plastic film looked at for loose edges and the edges secured. If the recirc doesn't change the sound, try opening a window to see if it does. It's likely to be a door film issue to have that kazoo sound.

The rattle I can't speak to as it's a tough call w/o being there. Try opening the door nearest the sound and vigorously swinging it back and forth to see if something's loose in it. Sometimes a seatbelt retractor will also be the culprit - try driving around with the rear shoulder belts buckled. Wiggle the folding seatback to see if it's got some slack in it that would rattle. As a resolution to these rattles, I've jumped in the back seat while on a trip and pinned them down while my wife is at the wheel.

fibber2 · June 2002

With the Subaru kit, you tap into the car harness in the lower RR panel, and route it into the spare tire wheel well. The 'converter' module (separate turn/brake/running lights to USA style 1157 bulb) mounts on the sidewall of the well, and the wire runs down & under the spare to the rubber drain plug. The harness has a new grommet installed about 18 inches from the terminal connector to replace the plug. A rubber weatherproof cap is supplied to keep the connector pins clean & dry.

Steve

ffsteve · June 2002

Doug from Idaho mentioned the source of the only rattles in my Bean. Probably in common with all Outbacks, the seatbelt buckles contact the plastic trim alongside the doors and beat a tattoo while driving. Even more, if the rear center belt buckle is not tucked up into its pouch correctly it will also rattle. I'll second the suggestion to drive with all belts buckled to isolate this potential cause.

Good luck,
Steve

ateixeira · June 2002

I was thinking a leaf stuck in the HVAC system.

-juice

jregen7243 · June 2002

For a good laugh, go over to the Jetta board...all they talk about is how their "top quality material" interiors rattle. I have never been in a car that is 100% rattle free. My in-laws just bought a new Toyota Avalon and I noticed rattles in back immediately.

idahodoug · June 2002

Well, I'm getting more impressed by Subaru every day and it's not been a month yet. A few pages up I asked if the Subaru AWD Wagon I bought for my mother could be towed on a dolly with rears on the ground, yet driven around during the tow. To accomplish the rears on the ground, I removed the rear driveshaft so nothing but the rear diff (full of fresh Mobil 1 synthetic gear oil) is spinning. To accomplish the driving around a bit, I put a fuse in the 'FWD' slot under the hood. To be sure it would all work out, I ran a bunch of errands today with the car like this. No problems.

The shaft removal was a 2 banana job with the toughest part finding a way to jack and support the car high enough to swing a wrench under there. There is a heat shield between the exhaust pipe and drive shaft that must be removed (6 bolts), then the shaft itself is 8 bolts (4 at each end). I used a shot of red paint at each end of the shaft to mark it and the 4 bolt holes for later reassembly to the correct position, and used a marker to label the front of the shaft as well. Putting the spare fuse into the FWD slot took about 3 minutes and a light on the dash tells you the system is working in FWD mode. The whole thing took about an hour.

IdahoDoug

idahodoug · June 2002

Before sending off Mom's car, I had a question for the Subaru dealer regarding the allowable difference in tire sizes for AWD models. The local dealer told me "one quarter inch in tire diameter". I didn't buy it as they waffled back and forth depending on how I asked the question, and they could not find it written anywhere for me.

So, I called the Subaru 800 number. They told me it's "one quarter inch in rolling circumference", which is about a third the size variation amount the dealer gave. So, now you all know the correct answer. The local dealer seemed unconcerned when I called back to correct them. Guess it's because they get paid to repair AWD systems damaged by incorrect tire sizes, eh?.......

IdahoDoug

paisan · June 2002

Patti told us the 1/4" circumference difference a while back. Glad to know they are giving out the same info on the 800 #. Thanks for the info about the towing thing. Cause I sold my '88 XT6 to a guy in TX who may come to pick it up and have to tow it back via dolly (it has a bad front A-arm)

-mike

ateixeira · June 2002

It's funny because Jetta owners love their cars despite the issues that come up. VWs in general seem to be like that, they spoil you with nice materials but don't seem to assemble them with as much care as some other makes, even ones that use cheaper materials.

So you sold ol' faithful, paisan? That's cool, I guess. The new one's running well now, right?

-juice

paisan · June 2002

The MT is doing well so far. Just needs a rear diffy that is en-route and an A/C charge.

-mike

ateixeira · June 2002

Nah, who needs A/C? I say yank the belt so you're not losing power draw to that needless accessory. ;-)

-juice

paisan · June 2002

But then I couldn't run in stock class. That belt would be running just the alternator and water pump then!

Next summer I may substitute a SC for the A/C compressor

-mike

ateixeira · June 2002

Now THERE is a good reason to draw power.

-juice

nygreg · June 2002

you'll be cooking instead of cooling?

Greg

pan2 · June 2002

Does anyone know why the integrated child seat was discontinued in '02?

We're considering a very low mileage '01 OB from a dealer (program car). It has the child seat and this seems like a nice feature since we have a 5 y/o who will fit it now and a 2 y/o eating his Cheerios at an alarming pace.

The only fact I've turned up was a comment that the seat didn't meet Canadian safety standards.

Pan2

idahodoug · June 2002

Pan2,

I wouldn't get or not get the car based on the child seat. However, I would purchase a quality aftermarket seat such as a Britax either way - for better safety than an integrated seat can offer. The integrated seats don't have the side protection wings, nor can you recline them for sleeping or resting. Don't get me wrong, the integrated child seats are convenient, just be aware they're not going to offer the protection of a current quality child seat. I view them as a last resort, personally.

IdahoDoug

fibber2 · June 2002

seem like a great idea, until an accident occurs. I am not talking 'car accident', but rather the full bladder type, spit-up, spilled juice, etc. I looked at friends vans with them, and decided to pass. Mild resemblance to a toxic waste dump.... It is far easier to take the cover off of the 'Toys R Us' type and throw it into the washer!!!

Steve

subearu · June 2002

on the integrated seat in our Outback when we got ours in Aug '00. There was on in blue with the seat, and another in winestone w/o the seat. We choose the later of course!

We figured that by the time we'd have a kid that could use the seat, the seats on the market would be better than the integrated one on the '00. Plus, I like the fact that all the new seats today have at least a tether strap, which we're using with our Fisher Price Safe Embrace seat right now. Any extra safety features are a plus in our book!

-Brian

ateixeira · June 2002

If it were leather it might be OK, since those wipe clean easily.

They weren't that common though, I doubt you'll find one with the equipment, color, mileage, condition, etc. that you want.

-juice

subearu · June 2002

The blue one (that I would have preferred) had the MT, while the winestone was AT. My dw liked the winestone and tan interior better, plus she did NOT want another MT.

-Brian

nygreg · June 2002

Are our wives related?

Greg

otis123 · June 2002

2001 LLBean w/ 25K miles.... No rattles (except for the first couple minutes after sitting in the summer sun all day - like any car).

Only problem with the car so far was defective front rotors (Subaru installed new ones and new front pads, of course, back at 23K).

Otherwise, smooth riding, flawless performance... as I expected...

subearu · June 2002

if she's wants a mini-van as much as mine does, then yes! wait, you guys already have one, don't you?

-Brian

nygreg · June 2002

Reminds me of the Mitsu commercial where the guy is working out at the gym when over the loud speaker comes "Person with the tan minivan - you left your lights on". hehehe

I take my OB to the gym.

Greg

fibber2 · June 2002

a real man is not ashamed to show his practical side! ;-)

Steve

ateixeira · June 2002

Hey, it's even proof of fertility if you think about it.

-juice

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