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Subaru Legacy/Outback

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Comments

  • nygregnygreg Member Posts: 1,936
    might be worth it if you get what you want. Plus, the 2 hours back in your new car can be fun. Of course, I know how hard it can be to find that time, especially if you have kids. Keep in mind the blue has the gray interior.
    My wife and I like the funky look of the OB too.

    Good luck,
    Greg
  • zman3zman3 Member Posts: 857
    FWIW I have a 98 Outback. It does have the cold weather package and the heated seats are darn nice. As far as LSD, I live in Minnesota. My OB does not have a LSD and I have never come close to getting stuck. It has plowed through any storm we've had. I will qualify that by saying that I don't travel off road and I have never stopped on a hill during an ice storm. We tend to get more snow and less ice here. For my usage a LSD is grossly overrated. If it was on a vehicle I already wanted then that would be great. But I personally won't let it be a deciding factor in which vehicle I buy next.

    Karl
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Since it's so close, I don't think you can go wrong with either. In other words, either one is fine.

    So, in this case, which one brings you a bigger smile? Let the tie breaker be emotional. Do you like the feel from behind the wheel of the Outback? The trendy two-tone and beefed up look? Go for it and don't look back.

    -juice
  • xccoachlouxccoachlou Member Posts: 245
    You mean that with the high demand for Subaru's here in the Tri-State area, higher expenses, additional freight charge (ok it's only $10, but still, it is higher), etc., etc., that a dealer in Arkansas can't match the price?

    You need to gently pull teeth and get the dealer to open up.

    "Gee, I hear these cars really sell well in the Northeast and New England."

    Here, the dealer will extol the virtues of AWD in general and Subarus in particular.

    "I bet they go for a pretty penny there"

    Here, he'll talk about how expensive they are and how we're paying so much for them.

    Then you just sweetly mention that he can definitely give a better price than those NY dealers.

    And when he bites... TA DAA! :)

    Red is my favorite color for the OB :)
  • tamara6tamara6 Member Posts: 38
    Hi Lou, everyone,

    I am going to try just what you suggest. Probably tomorrow, my Wednesday evening is sort of booked.
    The dealer two hours away says that the 2002 is in good shape, but that someone backed into it once and they had to replace the bumper. Is it possible to crack the bumper and get it replaced. without damaging the car? I mean, I know that's what bumpers are for, but I've never seen one crack and the car be undamaged. What do you guys think?

    Tamara
  • tamara6tamara6 Member Posts: 38
    Are dealers more or less likely to deal on a car they've had around for a while. My local dealer has had a seamist green OB on the lot since maybe November. Am I more or less likely to get a better price on it? Or should I wait until he gets a new one in and then be on top of it the first day? What do you think?

    Tamara
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Lots of times bumpers get dinged and the cars don't, but look closely at the surrounding panels to make sure they are aligned nicely.

    It depends. Some times dealers sort of pay a fee to keep a car on their lot, so it may actually cost them more to keep it there a long time. That might offset their desire to get rid of it soon.

    Ask about how you can get the absolute lowest price they can offer you, it may even require that you order a car.

    -juice
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    Sorry, I couldn't resist ;-)

    Very few dealers today can maintain a large stock of cars on their lot without actually financing the inventory. Thus, every day a car sits unsold, the less total profit they make on that unit. Now granted, over the long haul it all comes down to averages, but I have been told that the sales mgrs get anxious when a single unit sits too long and may price it to move.

    Steve
  • ladywclassladywclass Member Posts: 1,713
    I suppose it's redundant to say check out the prices on Edmunds for market value for area, etc ... I also think the 'longer' you go in and out of the dealer the more they realize they are going to have to 'deal' ... if you can handle doing that ... I was in and out over about a 2-3 month period while I shopped around and was able to tell the salesman what I liked about this or that model .. they definitely knew I was in the market, but not 'sold' on the Subaru (well, I WAS but they didn't have to know it!)
    Also, check the dealer's website. Mine had a "deal" posted that they didn't really intend. It said ANY new car or truck 1% over invoice. (Was supposed to say select vehicles, but I printed it out - several different days). They also had a deal for 3 free oil changes with purchase on the website that wasn't ever mentioned in the showroom. They were not going to show me the invoice, however I KNEW what it was from my snooping on Edmunds.
    In the fall of 2000 I was looking at 2000 model Outbacks, but ended up getting just as good a deal on a 2001 based on the info from the web.
    The sticker price on my 2001 Outback was around $25,400 (and remember this was when the new ones had just arrived) and I paid $2,200 less than that.
    Doing it this way, I did 'lose' one Outback in the dark blue that I thought I wanted, but I ended up with the light green which is better here in the snow and salt, and it also had a couple more options that I have really enjoyed ...
    Good shopping Tamara
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    There is a lot of travel in the adj screw for each of the fogs. You can get them to do arial searches, if that is what makes you happy! I moved them up till they gave a broad spread to the front and sides for back roads deer spotting. But I only use them with no other traffic around, as they can now be quite blinding.

    Steve
  • wrxsoon1wrxsoon1 Member Posts: 158
    Subaru also has quite a few VIP programs. The one I plan on using is their association with the Internation Mountain Bike Association (IMBA). The deal is invoice on any new car (of course there are other details).

    I think there is a list of all the programs somewhere on this site:

    http://www.cars101.com

    Good luck negotiating!

    -Ian
  • scubazscubaz Member Posts: 4
    My old OB was a 2000, but the gate was not a Subaru gate. It was a standard dog gate from one of the catalogs. I saw an earlier post that mentioned that it might harm the mechanism for the moon roof. True?

    S.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Does it press against the headliner? If it presses against the headliner there is a good chance it could harm the mooroof mechanism, it is located right above the headliner.

    -mike
  • tamara6tamara6 Member Posts: 38
    Hi Everyone again,

    The 2002 OB that we are considering has a tape player/radio plus a cd player added in (the Subaru optional cd player). I see that 2003 OBs have a cd player/radio. I don't see a Subaru option to have a tape player added in. I assume that means if we want a tape player we would have to buy one separately (from Crutchfield or someone) and put it in ourselves.

    I have looked at Crutchfield, and I don't see just a tape player that could be added in along with the cd/radio. Does anyone know if such a thing exists? What do other people do when they want a tape player along with the cd/radio?

    Thanks again for the help,

    Tamara
  • babaorileybabaoriley Member Posts: 74
    I didn't think I would need the heating part of the AWP when I bought my 2000 OBW (I wanted the LSD), but I now use the seat heater quite a bit since I messed up my lower back. The heater works great to keep it loose on longer trips.

    Also, I had someone take a corner too tight and scrape my bumper. Nothing too serious, but my insurance company paid to replace the whole bumper and have repainted. There was no other damage whatsoever.

    -Brett
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Tamara: if you want both, I'd shop for a take-out WRX radio. They had a 6CD changer plus a cassette. I bought TWO of them, for both our Forester and our Legacy, and they fit perfectly, use the same harness, and aren't hard to install.

    Try e-Bay or the i-Club classifieds, back then it was $250 or so but now they're cheaper. If you aren't inclined, a stereo shop will charge about $75 to install it for you, so you could have it all for under $300 maybe.

    Bonus: it'll help resale, so looking at it that way the stereo might come out free.

    -juice
  • xccoachlouxccoachlou Member Posts: 245
    How did it go? Are you going to picking up a new OB, Tamara, or Saturday? :)

    - Lou
  • tamara6tamara6 Member Posts: 38
    Well, we are still thinking about it. Can anyone tell me if the 2002 base OB comes with the remote door lock thing as a standard feature? Edmunds says they do, but a 2002 Subaru brochure sort of hints that only the LL Bean does, so I'm confused.

    We are leaning toward the 02 over the 03. Why? Mostly because it has the cassette player and the cd player (the 03 only has the cd player). I know the 03 has the all weather package (the 02 doesn't), but we would likely use the tape player every day, and the heated seats only a few times a year. I guess we could do what Juice suggested (install a unit from a WRX), and we have installed radios in cars before. But it would be an extra expense and effort that we could avoid by getting the 02. Resale value isn't important to us. By the time we want to resell this car (maybe 15 years from now), it will only be worth $500 anyway.

    Aside from the fact that this 02 is a two hour drive, I am a little nervous about the apparent accident it has been in. "Somebody backed into the front bumper" the salesman said. They replaced the bumper, and repainted part of the hood (I'm not sure how much or how it looks). They give a 5 year warranty on the paint repair. This doesn't sound so great to me. My husband thinks that we still should drive up to take a look. What are the chances they could match the sapphire blue paint?

    I haven't been in to talk to our local dealer yet, to ask for his best price. I was going to go today, but it was only 16 degrees outside, so I decided to stay in. Maybe tomorrow - it should be around 30.

    Tamara
  • nygregnygreg Member Posts: 1,936
    The 02 OBs all come with the FOB (still don't know what that stands for), remote. Replacing the bumper cover is one thing. If they repaired the hood, that tells me that more than the bumper was damaged and I would be leary. Unless the hood was just repainted to fix nicks from rocks. How much do you use the tape player??

    Greg
  • nygregnygreg Member Posts: 1,936
    Should have joined us for the chat tonight. You would have gotten more advice than you wanted. Its every Thursday night. Please join us next week.

    Greg
  • rob999rob999 Member Posts: 233
    Do the 03's have a key with the remote built onto the key itself - all one piece? Many new cars have similar

    A fob (key fob) remote would be separate from the key.
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    Tamara-
    If the '03 and '02 CDs are single CD player, then go with the '03 and if you're willing to accept a piece of Al Gator in exchange for the radio that comes with the '03, you'll be able to have the AWP, CD player, tape player, radio and WB. :D

    -Dave
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    gee, I always thought it's "Free On Board". ;-)

    -Dave
  • tamara6tamara6 Member Posts: 38
    I think we are going to skip the 02 that is 2 hours away. It just seems to be adding up to no good. The need to paint the hood (or part of it or whatever they painted) just doesn't sound good to me....

    So, now we are back to considering the "low mileage" used 02s at the local dealer. They are all automatic transmissions. Our other car is a manual. Does anyone have any experience dealing with a mixed transmission lifestyle? I'm wondering how confusing it is to switch back and forth. We would be doing that a lot. I'd probably get the auto in the morning and the manual in the afternoon. Everyday. That's why we wanted a manual in the first place (which this car 2 hours away is). It would be less confusing.

    Dave, what does this mean? "if you're willing to accept a piece of Al Gator in exchange for the radio..." ?

    Tamara
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Has his old stereo from his car Al Gator that met an untimely death. It's a CD/Cass/AM/FM/Weather Band one so he'd trade yah I think.

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Good idea to skip the repainted one. It'll never perfectly match the factory paint, plus it takes 6 weeks to cure and it's too cold for that right now.

    Go for a 2003, and keep the WRX 6CD option in mind. The 2003s have the newer struts that are supposed to yield a smoother ride, any how.

    -juice
  • nygregnygreg Member Posts: 1,936
    is waiting 6 months or so an option? With the new legacys coming, you might get a great deal on an 03 in the fall.

    Greg
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    Tamara-
    Yup, what paisan said.
    The piece of Al Gator is the CD/Cass/AMFM/WeatherBand which is in working and good condition. It was not on Al Gator when it met its untimely death.
    Yes, I'll trade the CD that comes with the '03 for it.
    And, if the you don't care for the CD player, I've got the unit that's just Cass/AMFM from Mom's OBS, Ginger.

    What say you? :D

    -Dave

    p/s: while I'm at it. Anyone needs a front right corner marker unit? From Al Gator of cause :D
  • tamara6tamara6 Member Posts: 38
    Hi Dave, all,

    OK, I'll keep that in mind. I'll probably head into the Subaru dealership tomorrow, bright and early. We'll see if (1) they'd like to see me a new OB at NE prices or (2) give me a great deal on one of their used 2002 OBs.

    And, yes, we may keep waiting. We've been shopping since last Aug. or Sept., so waiting isn't a problem.

    No answers yet on how confusing it is to switch from a manual to an automatic and back multiple times a day. I guess it isn't advised.

    :-)

    Tamara
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    Tamara-
    You mean driving two cars multiple times (either each time) in a day, each car with a different mode of transmission (one AT & the other MT)?

    Me, nope, never did that before.
    Someone who had worked as a Valet might have the answer.
    On the other hand, maybe not. Too short a distance for brains to register.

    -Dave
  • nygregnygreg Member Posts: 1,936
    after spending 5+ weeks in France, I came home and kept trying to push the clutch down (I have an automatic). My right hand was bored. When I started the OB, I would keep thinking I am missing something. There are some here who have both. I would think you would get used to it.

    greg
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Funny you ask, I used to valet park back in college for beer money. It was funny 'cause people would ask "How's the food at iRicchi's" and I didn't know because I couldn't afford to eat there!

    Switching is no big deal. It easier to drive an auto when you're used to stick. You just catch your left leg reaching for the clutch some times, no big deal though. Also, your right hand may hold the shifter, but that's also OK.

    Driving an auto all the time, you might get lazy and also not drive a clutch as smoothly. But if you've had years of practice, it's like riding a bike, you never forget.

    So don't worry about having two types of trannies, and long as you know how to drive both. The Subaru automatic is very robust, too, and it's easier to resell.

    -juice
  • romy4romy4 Member Posts: 17
    Tamara, I never have had a problem switching back and forth from AT to MT and vice versa. I learned to drive on a stick and up until a couple of years ago we always had both in the family. There is nothing like the fun of driving a stick on a beautiful spring day on a winding mountain road (can you tell I'm sick of winter and weeks of below freezing weather!) on the other hand, there are days when I'm glad I have an AT in my OB. Variety is nice.

    Romy
  • grahampetersgrahampeters Member Posts: 1,786
    G'day

    I regularly drive several vehicles on the one day and have never found problems switching between transmission types. However, finding the controls for the wipers and lights is something else.

    Cheers

    Graham
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    What is DUMB is that the power window switches on our Legacy work in the opposite direction vs. our Forester. The Forester's are more intuitive, while the Legacy's seem to be designed for some parallel universe where down means up and vice-versa.

    -juice
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    juice-
    you could flip the wires around so that down is down vice-versa. Summer project?

    -Dave
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I wonder if it's labeled. I'll have to look. In fact, I'm getting the plood surrounds so I'll have a look when I swap those.

    -juice
  • originalbitmanoriginalbitman Member Posts: 920
    In case you didn't know... the plood I sent you is dash and shifter only and not the door switch panels. I never had those guys.

    bit
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Oh, didn't realize those weren't included. Maybe I saw them in an accessories catalog.

    Still, Pat told me I'm getting an extra cup holder so she'll be excited about that.

    -juice
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    I had both types of tranny in one vehicle. No kidding. When my Ford F-150 needed a clutch (and I was tired of shifting anyhow), I found a wreck and bought everything I need for a full conversion to an automatic! Of course that was pre-EFI. Shift control was by vacuum modulation and a rod kickdown linkage.

    Steve
  • jfljfl Member Posts: 1,396
    In the past 12 years or so, only once did I hit the brake pedal thinking I had to clutch, fortunately nobody was tailgating me!

    Now, our sedans are manual and the Jeep is auto. They are so different that we don't make the mistake.

    I sure wish one of the cars was an auto when I injured my right hand many years ago. The hand throbbed whenever it was below heart level. Had to reach over and shift with the left hand.

    Jim
  • dudedude Member Posts: 123
    Tamara, if you like 03 L/SE model but want to have LSD, try finding something like 02 2.5 GT with low miles. Those 02s GTs have the same MSRP as 02s Outbacks and would probably be in the same price range. GT has all that L/SE has plus, LSD, power driver seat, remote entry and more. About a year ago, I was given an offer by a local dealer for a automatic 02 GT wagon of something like 21.9K. Used one would probably be around 20K. So, I hope this helps.
  • hammersleyhammersley Member Posts: 684
    Tamara: Don't know if it's muscle memory, or more likely seat-of-the-pants memory, but switching trannies during the course of a day has never been a problem with me. Wife's van is an AT, my Subaru is a manual. I climb in my old truck & intuitively know to reach for the stick. I've often driven all three literally within minutes of each other without so much as a conscious thought regarding tranny style. Don't let that keep you from buying what would otherwise be just the right car for you.

    Cheers!
    Paul
  • subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    I have found switching back and forth from a manual to automatic to be no problem. My dw's Saturn was a manual, and we'd switch off with my AT Outback.

    What I do find myself doing is looking on the column for the gear selector when I get back in my Outback. Our other car is a MPV. I'll drive that for one afternoon and then the next day I'm all messed up looking for the column shifter!

    -Brian
  • scubazscubaz Member Posts: 4
    Does it press against the headliner? If it presses against the headliner there is a good chance it could harm the mooroof mechanism, it is located right above the headliner.

    Yes it does press against the headliner. It does this a right behind the back seat on either side of the car.

    I haven't checked the owners manual yet for any warnings.

    To anyone that has the official Subaru gates, how do they stay in place?

    Thanks,
    s.
  • originalbitmanoriginalbitman Member Posts: 920
    Yes, cupholder, HVAC surround, shifter surround and fog/cruise switch surround. Those pieces were stock on the GT but the door switch pieces were an option that I did not get.

    bit
  • tamara6tamara6 Member Posts: 38
    Went to the local dealer this morning. The salesman was pretty unwilling to deal with me. He said the best he could do on a 2003, manual transmission, base OB was 3% less than MSRP. Bleh.

    I did test drive one of the 8000 mile 2002 OBs (auto transmission). It was great! Very smooth. Enough acceleration for the way I drive (went up hills, got on the freeway, all with no problem). I felt very comfy in the car. It was clean and unblemished. He said it was a fleet vehicle in Colorado (for Subaru?).

    But it doesn't have roof rack cross bars or the cargo tray. He says the 02 base OB didn't come with those things, which I am pretty sure isn't true. I feel like the 19.4K price he is asking is a little steep, too, but he was (naturally) unwilling to negotiate. (Edmunds seems to suggest the dealer retail on this car should be $17886) So I left. All in all, I'm feeling like I can't trust him. Maybe I won't be getting a car after all....

    Sigh.

    Tamara
  • cusafrcusafr Member Posts: 184
    Tamara: I was drawn to your post because of your name. My daughter’s name is Tamara. Spelled the same, but probably pronounced differently. We say her name like [(tomorrow) with an a] ta mar a. Anyway, looks like you are having a problem you should not be having. I’m not sure why, but I think you are in California, right? I went to carsdirect.com are put in zip code 95816 (Sacramento) and it shows a base OB at MSRP $23,570 with a carsdirect.com price of $21509. This is about 9% off. If you go to carsdirect.com and enter your information, include whatever options you want and see what you get. Now, you can either take that to a dealer and ask if they can beat that price, or just simply buy from carsdirect.com. Don’t know if this will help, but hope it will. By the way, I am in no way associated with carsdirect.com. There are other buying services available you can also try. I think autobytel, greenlight, possibly cars.com, or carprices.com. Not sure which is best.

    Good luck,

    CUSAFR
  • jdwagsjdwags Member Posts: 3
    I'm looking to buy a used GT wagon. I want the GT because I want the 2.5 liter engine over the 2.2.

    Can some of you more knowledgeable Subaru folks tell me what year the GT was first produced? Did the GT's first year include the 2.5 litter engine? And finally, what features did the earlier GT's have that the Legacy L wagon did not? Were the gear ratios the same?

    Thanks.

                           John
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