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Subaru Legacy/Outback

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Comments

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Caveat: looks like the sample size for that survey wasn't very significant, check the details for more info.

    -juice
  • kmcleankmclean Member Posts: 173
    I appreciate the spark plug info. As I recall, the rubber boots need to be squeezed to pop off the end of the plug - was that your experience? Also, I think I'll remove the windshield washer fluid reservoir to ease access to the two driver's side plugs - it appears to be held in place by just two screws.

    Due to the weather (and access challenges), I'll leave all the transmission/diffy, brakes and cooling system fluid changes to the pros with lifts and heated garages.

    Thanks again,

    Ken in Seattle
  • jfljfl Member Posts: 1,396
    You're welcome, Ken.

    I removed the washer reservior on the driver's side and some ducting on the pass. side. The boots are 4" long and sit deep in a well. However, they ARE designed with something to hold which really helps. One of mine was just really hard to pop off.

    Jim
  • gof4gof4 Member Posts: 22
    Has anyone had one installed? Who installed & what was the cost?
    My wife drives very short distances & in the cold weather the car does not get up to normal operating temperature by the time she gets to work. Annual mileage about 3000 miles.
    Would synthetic oil be helpful for her kind of driving?
    Thanks,
    Bob.
    '01 OB
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Why would letting the engine idle in the driveway be any better for it?

    Steve, Host
  • dudedude Member Posts: 123
    Well, I don't think that my tranny is going bad, but something was forcing it to drop gears when the car was pretty much out of gas. It could be electronics or something, I'm not sure.
  • tchase1tchase1 Member Posts: 16
    Thanks for the heads-up. I just read about that survey on CRV's on the Honda Town Hall disc. A few said it was an invalid survey because of the population sampled. In any case, it's a moot point: I was off buying a new OB wgn yesterday--without intending to.

    My wife and I decided to go down to Eugene to check out the lot (Romania Subaru, Honda, Subaru, etc.) where we bought our last Legacy in '95. A few hours later we walked away with a new Sea Mist green OB--I'm still giddy about it.

    The amazing thing is that we unwittingly masterminded a trade-in for our old one and got just about as much as I was hoping for--with a lot less bother. I was going to have a dent in the fender fixed, touch up some nicks, etc.--but they took it off my hands. I got it all after trade-in for $17K on 0% for 24 mo.

    You know what the deciding factor was? The dealership also sells Hondas. So we drove the OB over and parked it next to the CRV. We sat in each, walked around, and my wife--who was leaning toward the CRV before--said, "I like this flavor" pointing to the OB. Up to this point, I could've gone either way. But I have no regrets.

    Thanks for the valuable feedback (on both forums). I'll keep in touch. This is kind of fun--and very instructive. It's nice going in buying a car with some knowledge and a take-it-or-leave-it attitude. Just after the mgr gave us his "last offer" I pulled out my keys and we started to get into our car. He turned back and said, "You win."
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    Congratuations on your new purchase! Let us know how you like the car.

    Craig
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    <throwing virtual change> Congratulations Tom :) </throwing virtual change>
    Sea MIst Green is a great color.

    Happy Motoring!!!

    -Dave
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    Ken: If you do go platinum, get the correct preset gap. IIRC, the platium is a coating over a base metal (probably a copper alloy), and any gap adjustment or feeler gauge operation can damage the plating.

    Steve: Bob's solution may be reasonable given the circumstances of his wife's frequent but very short duration use of the car. Engines that don't make it up to full operating temp suffer from exhaust system corrosion, high oil contamination, and generally shorter life. While idling is not the ideal fix (a fun detour might be better!!), it would help with the above.

    Steve
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    When I lived in Anchorage, I did mostly short trips to town 2 or 3 times a week (~2 miles). If it was 10 below or colder, I'd run the block heater for an hour or two first. Otherwise, I'd just creep through the subdivision and take it easy the first half mile.

    That car may still be running - I sold it in '99 when we moved and it had 114,000 miles on it over a 17 year period.

    Steve, Host
  • jimsxnjimsxn Member Posts: 108
    A Guru down in stealth car forum suggested the ultimate mod - an LT1 dropped in a Legacy wagon. He says the engine bay is big enough to accept it and the rest of the mechanicals are OK - except the clutch (5spd) which will wear out every year.

    What'd'y'll think?
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    The "Subaru Gods" will rain down fire and ice on you for even thinking of contaminating that sacred engine bay with a GM mill. Shame on you!!

    Steve
  • zman3zman3 Member Posts: 857
    Sacred engine bay??? Hey, I bet that LT1 wouldn't have piston slap at least. :)
  • jimsxnjimsxn Member Posts: 108
    Would it be feasible? Has anyone done it?
  • jfljfl Member Posts: 1,396
    Would that change the weight distribution to about 75/25 front/rear?

    Jim
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    Sorry.... Just having a little bit of fun with you.

    Seriously, it makes about as much sense (to me...) as a guy I know who stuffed a 305 (or maybe a 307 - cannot remember which small block fits) in a Vega (a lifetime ago). They weigh about 2x what the aluminum flat 4 does (where would you get suitable springs?), the bell housing pattern is probably different, the cooling system is probably inadequate, and unless it is an ancient carb engine, what would you do for electronic engine management?

    I can't imagine this would make a very satifactory daily driver. So maybe a better question - what is the point?

    Steve
  • jimsxnjimsxn Member Posts: 108
    Steve...
    Legacy is probably one of the most underrated mid-size cars. In the latest C&D comparo, it tied with Mazda6 in handling and its steering feel was rated to be the best. It gets clobbered in the straight line tests though - with the 4WD HW and an anemic engine which loses breath quickly. I can't believe Subaru hasn't thought of adding muscle to this car - yes there is H6 I know. But a 5.7L V8 would make this car a 13-14 sec quartermiler. Not only that, folks have been telling me that the underlying structure of Subie is really strong and can handle the weight. With 4WD traction putting power to the ground, better wheels and probably bigger rotors - this can become the grocery hauler Andretti would love to drive.

    Thus far, we know that there could be problems with:
    1. Weight distribution
    2. Electronic engine management
    3. Cooling system, and
    4. Shocks

    Now what do you think?
  • barcbarc Member Posts: 15
    Why not the SVX motor. Was 3.3L I think? That's what should go in the Legacy. Not sure if it needed premium or regular gas, hopefully regular. I read somewhere it was only 7/8" longer than the 4 cyl, but not sure if this is true.
  • idahodougidahodoug Member Posts: 537
    A GM V8 engine will not fit in the Legacy's engine bay - that's a load of horsepucky. So is his contention that the drivetrain can take it, except for annual clutch changeouts. Tell the "guru" to get out his tape measure and a book on basic auto engineering.

    IdahoDoug
  • jimsxnjimsxn Member Posts: 108
    Idahodog - Are you sure? If yes, what's your solution, then?
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    that the Subaru's boxer engine layout does not lend itself easily to engine swaps, unless it's another Subie engine. That's one of the reasons why GM and Subaru are having so much trouble in trying to figure out what future body platform to share. So, yes, IdahoDoug is correct.

    As to horsepower solutions: There are several aftermarket turbos out there for the 2.5L Legacy engine I believe.

    Bob
  • jimsxnjimsxn Member Posts: 108
    So I catch you here...you can run but you can't hide :-) How come I don't see you in the SUV forum anymore?
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    No way you are gonna horseshoe in a V8 350 into a Forester. I know of a few guys who have BARELY slipped a V8 350 into a Rodeo/Amigo/Trooper enginebay, even with that they had to go 100% electrical fans, and it wasn't a bolt-in procedure.

    Now with a torch and $ you can probably put anything you want into a subie engine bay. I've seen a 350 in an XT6 body, but there was significant cutting etc. Also it didn't retain the driveline for the subie.

    The other problem is how would you mate up the tranny? The tranny for the boxer is very different than that of a chevy 350.

    Back to reality... The EZ30 3.0l H6 engine found in the LLBean and VDC is 7/8" longer than the EJ25 that is in those vehicles, and it weighs not much more. This would be a good swap. The ER33 found in the SVX Is too long IIRC to fit under the hood of any of the current subies. The SVX takes premium fuel as well.

    -mike
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    The Subaru forums is where I live... Only rarely do I venture out any more. :)

    Bob
  • angiep1angiep1 Member Posts: 4
    Thanks for the input on the 98 and 99 Outbacks we were deciding between. The 98 Limited won out. Much nicer, just knew it was the one. And wouldn't you know it snowed 10 inches this weekend. It did wonderful on the roads.

    The only let down was that keyless entry sytem that was originally with the car had been removed. Any ideas on where to get a new keyless entry system, besides at a dealership? What is a good price?

    Angie
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    Angie-
    I would wager that they are still there.
    You might only be missing the fobs.
    Try getting a fob the would come with the '98 OBs and reprog. it in. It's cheaper than to purchase a whole new unit only to learn that you already have it. And, if it is true that the unit isn't there, you got an extra fob. ;)

    Oh,... Congratulations!!!

    -Dave
  • jimsxnjimsxn Member Posts: 108
    Actually, I am thinking of replacing my car with a wagon (always a contrarian - you know). There are very few in the market - being cheap, I would probably go for a 1998-99 model. Legacy looks very good but it could use some vitamin H. The other option is A6 Avant but that one is not only much more expensive but also less reliable. Therefore, this question.

    Help if you have some insight into making Legacy muscle. Any particular model year you favour?
  • docfreeddocfreed Member Posts: 6
    I see the xenon bulbs in PEP Boys all the time. Anyone have any experience/suggestions on putting them in place of the regular bulbs on an '02 Outback - the normal lamps are not that bright
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    I'd say the only option now is to get an H6 model, which means LL Bean or VDC. Sounds likely that we will get a 2.5 H4 Turbo in the 04 model lineup, and then the new body style will debut as an 05 model, possibly with even more engine options.

    Craig
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    docfreed-
    Save your money. Those [fake] xenon bulbs only looks bright but don't do any better.

    -Dave
  • roflickroflick Member Posts: 14
    I read an article in Reader's Digest about child safety in SUV or station wagon type vehicles. There is a danger of lose items from the cargo area that can fly foward and strike occupents in the event of a crash. This can result in either injury or death. The recommendation by RD is to install a cargo barrier that has been crash tested and fixes to the frame. Subaru offers a "dog barrier." When I asked the part's employee about crash testing, he laughed. He said that in the event of a crash the "dog barrier" would pop out. The results of a web search has yielded one company based in Australia that makes the Milford Cargo Barrier. Does anyone have experience in equiping your outback or other vehicle with a heavy duty cargo barrier?
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    Rosendo-
    What will you be stowing back there whilst you're transporting a child/children in the rear passenger seating that will be dangerous?
    You could either tie down what may be dangerous. There are tie-downs;
    or, don't transport a child/children should you stow what may be deemed dangerous.

    my $0.02

    -Dave
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I'm big on tying down "flying projectiles." I've read stories about sand bags flying through rear seats in sedans in wrecks! As you've found, it seems that "safety barriers" are really only common in Australia (not quite true - I only searched in English). Good luck trying to find anything in North America - maybe some netting....

    Steve, Host
  • idahodougidahodoug Member Posts: 537
    I'm with Steve on this. My Legacy did not come with the tiedowns, so I pulled my rear floor trim up to confirm my suspicions the threaded holes would be there. Then bought 4 tiedowns from an Outback at the U-Pull salvage yard. They're strong enough to hold up to a 30lb item provided they're well secured (not good enough for a toolbox, for instance). I keep a pair of what are considered motorcycle tie down straps under the floor for use at any time.

    It's important to visualize in your mind the car taking a severe hit and then rolling and perhaps another hit when you secure whatever you're carrying. This will keep your mind on task, and your securing efforts will consider forces from all, and multiple angles.

    The factory tie down hooks are apparently unavailable from dealers as I tried twice to get them. Both times the wrong part came in and they gave up.

    IdahoDoug
  • roflickroflick Member Posts: 14
    HYPOV,

    Having two small children and the essentials that must be packed along with them, there isn't much room left for groceries. Break out your high school physics text and you'll remember that thing's in motion stay in motion ( a can of Campbel's soup traveling 40 mph) until another force acts upon it (your head). Tie downs aren't the solution. Tiedowns in the Outback are useless. They are flimsy and made of plastic. I think that you are being unrealistic about the dangers of anything not secured in your car, ie. cell phone, book, coffee cup, etc.... As a parent of two beautiful children, I have the responsibility to keep them safe as possible.

    Pick up this month's Reader's Digest. It will open your eyes.

    If anyone has some useful information please give your input.
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    Rosendo-
    My remark was not to spike.
    but to jolt the brain cells a li'l.
    Firstly, you haven't found anything secure yet.
    I mentioned tie-downs.
    Think of ways to secure your groceries whilst you try to find what you're looking for.
    Example: collapsing milk crates with cover for stowing your groceries, then tie them down.
    As for the cellphone, keep it in your pocket. Books, coffee, and what nots in the front... you don't need them while you're driving. Don't have them in the car when the kids are with you.

    I am being realistic. I know of the dangers being in an accident.

    -Dave
  • roflickroflick Member Posts: 14
    HYPOV,

    Thanks for the advice, but I've been there and done that. I was only trying to enlighten you for your own safety, in case you haven't been taking those same precautions. Still looking for a permanently safe solution.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Depending on how much you wanted to spend etc. I'd suggest several differnt options.

    VDC/LLBean/H6 Base Outback (available in Canada) are all options. They are powerful with the H6.

    If you are looking used, I'd go for a '99 Outback. I'm a big fan of the DOHC 2.5L engine, while not quicker off the line, it's higher revving and "feels" more powerful due to the lighter weight of the 2nd generation legacy body.

    -mike
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    Yes, the dangers are very real, but short of an industrial strength cargo space divider, objects will fly. This goes for any vehicle without a trunk - wagon, minivan, or SUVs. Press-fit dog gates will become a weapon in their own right, as they fly thru the interior. Cargo nets and tiedowns offer some limited protection, but realistically, who often do any of us take the time to do it right?

    Rosendo, if this is really upsetting you, I suggest that you try a commercial van conversion shop. They can probably take the units they install in the cargo/delivery versions of Dodge Caravans and cut one down to size to fit your wagon.

    Good luck,

    Steve
  • revkarevka Member Posts: 1,750
    and thanks for keeping us posted on your final decision. Happy motoring!

    Revka
    Hatchbacks & Wagons Host
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'm off line for a few snow days and Tom and Angie have joined our ranks! Congrats to both of you.

    LT1 in a Legacy may sound good, but I agree it would end up nose-heavy. Besides, the 2.5l makes 300hp in the STi, and the next Legacy is rumored to get 350hp.

    So I guess you could then "downgrade" to an LT1 at that point. ;-)

    -juice
  • ncvolncvol Member Posts: 196
    Juice

    How has the Subie been doing up there in 2+ feet of snow?
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    I understand the need to secure items in the cargo bay, but didn't know Reader's Digest had gotten into the business of testing vehicles.

    Ed
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Great. I went out with the Forester to get milk and emergency supplies. Like red wine. :-)

    They finally plowed in Tuesday morning. Since then we've been able to get around easily, including my wife in her Legacy (which has less clearance). The hard part was re-shoveling the drive every time they plowed the street!

    Two cars got stuck on my street - a 626 and a Corolla. Trucks were getting by OK.

    -juice
  • goosegoggoosegog Member Posts: 206
    Idahodoug...you said "My Legacy did not come with the tiedowns, so I pulled my rear floor trim up to confirm my suspicions the threaded holes would be there. Then bought 4 tiedowns from an Outback at the U-Pull salvage yard."

    Are you talking about a sedan? My 00 Outback wagon doesn't have tie-downs. Nor have I noticed anywhere to fix them if I had them. The floor is plastic and lifts up to reveal styrofoam. Under that is the spare.

    By contrast, my old Mercury Tracer wagon had them. But they were useless anyway.

    I agree with fibber2. This is the only secure way and will prevent even heavy items from coming at you. Ugly though.
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    My previous 00 Outback (and the new 02) had tiedowns in the back, 4 of them, mounted along the sides of the cargo area, right above the floor. They are plastic, but could likely be replaced by something stronger. I believe they do thread into the frame.

    Craig
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    My Forester has 4 sturdy tie-downs. I haven't used the ones in my wife's car yet, so I can't comment on them.

    -juice
  • goosegoggoosegog Member Posts: 206
    Oh, the plastic ring thingies. I didn't consider them. I thought we were talking about proper straps made of seat belt material, bolted to the floor. Sorry.
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    actually had web belt material adjustable straps attached to the load floor. Surprised that I haven't seen anything like that since.

    Steve
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