Subaru Legacy/Outback

docfreed · February 2003

All:

Can you suggest quality aftermarket accessory suppliers? I find this board extremely valuable and read every post.

Thanks in advance

tchase1 · February 2003

Our mtns. in Oregon got a big snowfall (30") over the weekend (like you folks out east), so I thought I'd give the new OB a trial run yesterday. The road (Santiam Pass) had been well-plowed, so it was a little hard to tell. On hard pack it handled great; a little squirrly in slush but what car isn't. When I got to the parking lot at the ski area (4-6" on the pavement), I did a little test drive and was impressed. About the same as our old '95 Legacy, but maybe a little better with the bigger tires?

But I was impressed with the uphill power on the way up. In the old Legacy, I used to have to shift down (AT) into 3rd gear several times, and on a couple grades I could barely keep it up to 40. But I drove the whole way without shifting down. And it's so quiet and comfortable. You sit up on the road higher without giving up stability. Absolutely no regrets about not getting the CRV. I washed it as soon as I got back in town. Wonder if I'll keep up the good habits.

Geez, there are a lot of OB's on the road. I really notice them now. And every time I see a CRV I have to smile (condescendingly) a little.

One question: I notice when you let off the gas, at about 20 or 30 you can notice a slight downshift that I don't recall in the Legacy. I didn't detect it when I was on snow, but I wonder if that could cause a little slippage if on slippery surface? Anybody notice that on theirs?

c_hunter · February 2003

Sounds like you are enjoying the new car! I'm pretty sure I have the same downshift when letting off the gas at those speeds. It doesn't provide a noticeable deceleration, but definitely kicks down a gear.

Which ski area were you at?

Craig

paisan · February 2003

A lot of newer trannies do this as a way to apply engine braking when someone lets off the gas completely. I find it great when driving in snow because I don't need to brake which might induce a skid.

-mike

ateixeira · February 2003

Try subaruparts.com, and also e-mail parts@libertysubaru.com for a 2nd price quote, I don't think they have a web site.

Both sell OE accessories, but near wholesale prices.

That tranny is downshifting because it's getting ready to accelerate out of the turn you're approaching. Engine braking also helps prevent baking the brakes, so it's intentional.

-juice

c_hunter · February 2003

Drove the Outback this morning, and noticed the downshift happens almost precisely at 24mph in my car, when braking. Very gentle at that speed, don't notice it much at all. I think it is going from 4 to 3.

Craig

erics6 · February 2003

Hoodoo Ski area is at the top of Santiam Pass. It can be an exciting drive depending on conditions. I remember going over it once when semis with chains were getting stuck. Our Subaru just soldiered right on by, and we enjoyed a day of cross country sking at Hoodoo.

otis123 · February 2003

Anyone put 225/60/16 Michelin Pilot Sport A/S tires on their Outback? Wondering how they perform. My original Firestones are starting to slip at 38K...and the reviews @ tirerack sound great, but no Outback reviews...

Thanks,

Ralph

rob999 · February 2003

I JUST had these installed on my '01 last month. Definite improvement in sound level and traction - but that's just my subjective impression.

Unlike many of the Northern states, our area (suburban Chicago) hasn't had a lot of snow whereby I could really put them through their paces, but we had 3-4" about 10 days ago and they definitely seemed to be an improvement over the Firestones.

I got mine from Costco - same price as TireRack plus there was a Michelin sale at the time (and no shipping charges). They don't stock the PS A/S, but they did a special order for them. Costco also includes valve stems and road hazard insurance that other places nickel-and-dime you for.

I'm definitely happy with my purchase.

tchase1 · February 2003

Yes, it's Hoodoo Ski Bowl. It's infamous for its "Hoodoo cement"--heavy wet powder. You have to do jump-turns to stay on top of it. Only another hour away is Mt. Bachelor, I think the best ski area in the Pacific NW. Almost always light powder. But if the weather's bad (as it was this week), it's a long drive.

Thanks, all, for the advice on the downshifting.

I have another trivial question: How do you keep cats off a car (hood)? I didn't enforce any deterrent with my old Legacy, but now I'm suffering the consequences. When I got back from the mtn, I washed it, and the damn cats were on it in no time. What can you do, short of shooting them? (They're my wife's cats.) I hate having to cover it up, but I've been putting a piece of plastic on it--when I remember. Any advice?

ateixeira · February 2003

Spray some water every time you catch them on there, try to break them of that bad habit.

-juice

otis123 · February 2003

Rob,

Thanks for the feedback! Sounds like they are worth the money from the reviews I've read (and good in snow - we just had a blizzard in northern nyc suburbs).

$149 at tirerack.com, but $165.99 at BJs - where I would buy them (convenience, free rotation). I'll have to wait for BJs coupon to get it down to 158.49 (still, plus tax!).

Just wondering if they produce weird whistles/sounds at high speeds (80mph) or make the car pull? They sound too good to be true...

Thanks again,

Ralph

tkevinblanc · February 2003

Or put sticky stuff on the hood, then take them for a ride...

I scream "get off the F#$&1^& hood!" It doesn't work, but I feel better. Then I mutter "damn cat".

stever · February 2003

We actually have a discussion devoted to that topic (no ".22 comments" please!).

CATS... any way to keep them off that warm hood?

Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards

hammersley · February 2003

Electrify the hood... then throw the switch when they clamber onto the hood, and see how far they jump!

(Friend of mine did this once on a smaller scale - cat was forever climbing on front of stereo speakers - rigged up a wire grid connected to a VHF transmitter with a dummy load. Cat climbed, ZAP! Cat jumped. Came out of hiding under the couch several hours later. Never ever climbed on the speaker again!)

Keeping it OT - I owned a '78 Subaru GL coupe at the time.

Cheers!
Paul

leo2633 · February 2003

they go right through, sometimes without immediate effect. ZERO recidivism, however! ; )

Len

c_hunter · February 2003

I would try the water as Juice mentioned. We use a spray bottle with water to deter our cats when they do something bad. Works on one cat (who runs at the sight or sound of the bottle), but the other cat just licks herself dry and goes back for more trouble. If it's outdoors, a hose ought to do the trick.... If that fails, I would buy a large German Shepherd and train him to sleep on the hood!

Off to read the cat forum now, anticipating much entertainment.

Craig

rob999 · February 2003

All in all, the Michelins much are quieter than the old Firestones. I commute on a highway with grooved sections and some stretches with a bad washboard surface and I'd say it's quite an improvement - the old Firestones used to generate lots of noise in these sections. I generally drive at 70-75 on the highway and have not noticed any whistling. Never noticed any pulling at all.

I've been able to take offramps at higher speeds with no problem where the Firestones used to break loose, a bit.

xccoachlou · February 2003

Hokey Smokes Bullwinkle!!

I was just at the Subaru site and still can't believe it. An H6 Outback. From what I can gather, there is no leather and no dual moon roofs.

Looks like the base OB with the H6.

Lou, in dire need of a new non-drooled keyboard.

idahodoug · February 2003

I was not aware of plastic tie downs. On the OB wagon that ended in 99(?), there were welded steel towers that bolted to a fitting welded to the floor pan. The tower accounted for the 2 inches or so from the steel floor pan to the level of the carpeted cargo floor (styrofoam separated these for insulation). That's what I pulled out of a wrecked '98 Outback wagon for my use - they're miniature I beams.

On my '97 Legacy wagon, I lifted the side panels (not the larger center access panel for the spare, etc mentioned in the post above) and found the welded on fitting with the threaded hole these towers bolt to. When you pull these small side panels up, you'll likely pull the velcro off that holds them down, BTW. No big deal as the hooks and their trim bezel will hold the piece down (though they really don't move anyhow), or you could dab some rubber cement in there.

Anyhow, you'll see where the styrofoam insulation has cutouts in it, and the load floor has a cutout in in to match where the hooks come up. The only thing you need to do besides bolt them in is cut out the oval shape in the carpet to match the load floor's oval (60 seconds with a knife using the oval as a template). I agree that having nothing back there is best, but reality is I may have a bike wheel back there while returning from errands and get a call to pick up our daughter at school, etc. So precisely because I am anally retentive about safety (ask me about the other mods I do to EVERY car I buy) I went to the trouble to mount these sturdy hooks specifically for unquestioned cargo restraint.

If I took a typical object found back there, say a buddy's Skilsaw, I have no worries that it will get loose in the most severe crashes. It takes about 2 minutes for me to run a motorcycle strap through its handle diagonally between 2 hooks, then do the same through the opposite 2. Then they get cinched down tightly. Even in a severe crash, the slight give of the webbing straps, the slight give of the towers bending and the slight give of the floor pan bending will prevent the type of peak load that might allow it to tear loose - an excellent restraint structure equally able to handle forces from any direction.

What would I do if I regularly carried a lot of stuff back there? I'd get 3 of the steel child's upper child seat restraint strap mounts (they thread directly into the rear hatch's upper frame - also a key roof support beam) available from Subaru, the 4 steel OB mounts I have, and have a heavy canvas/webbing "bag" made that would be anchored at these 7 points. Between this and the contributory strength of the wagon's seat backs, you'll have enough restraining force to keep perhaps 100lbs of stuff back there safely and the bag would fold up under the spare hatch when not in use. If I ever HAD to carry both a toolbox and my child, I'd use the straps to hold in on the roof rack. Yes, this may injure someone else outside my car in a freak accident but frankly my child's safety means that much to me.

DougM

c_hunter · February 2003

Damn! When did that show up? Looks like a nice combination of features for the price, especially if you can get it down near invoice like usual.

Unlike the base Outback (or even the Ltd.) it has the auto climate control from the Bean/VDC. And like those two, the H6-Outback is auto trans only (as expected).

So, it sort of looks like this to me: the H6 Outback is to the LL Bean like the base Outback is to the Ltd.

I wonder if this car has the extra sound insulation of the Bean/VDC?

Overall, cool. Glad to see Subaru making the H6 available at a lower price point.

Craig

tamara6 · February 2003

It looks like they also have a new version of the base model - the Outback Wagon with Audio Pkg. for the same price as the wagon w/o the audio package. The difference? The one with the audio package doesn't get the all weather package. I imagine this will sell better in Florida and Louisiana, where they might prefer a 6 disk changer to heated seats.

Tamara

rob999 · February 2003

A great move to offer this configuration (finally)!!! I was always interested in the H6, but not in all the extras that came with the BEAN or VDC. I just might have to go for a test drive!

ateixeira · February 2003

Bob mentioned it too, looks like a surprise new model. There wasn't any press release about it, either. Bizarre. I think they'd want to hype it up a lot - an affordable H6!

It's $200 more than an H4 Limited, but a whopping $3200 cheaper than the LL Bean! Yowsah.

I don't like that they deleted the AWP from the model with the Sound package, those heated seats are great! But yeah, for sun belt states it makes sense.

But the new H6 is sweet. I really wanted the Bean but the wife didn't want to spend the extra money for it. I think the base H6 would have been the perfect compromise.

-juice

c_hunter · February 2003

I would have bought the H6 Outback over the Bean for sure (I prefer cloth seats any day, and don't really care about the other niceties sold with the Bean). The only thing I really appreciate about the Bean, outside of the engine, is the sound insulation. If the H6 Outback has that, it would be my perfect wagon. Well, until the 05 models come out, anyway!

Craig

ateixeira · February 2003

I do like the two-tone leather, plus it's heated. And the wood on the steering wheel is cool.

But those are things I want, not need. So I'd get the base H6.

-juice

subearu · February 2003

I guess this intrigues me since the VDC is on my 'short-list' with the XT and whatever Legacy turbo.

My reasoning for the VDC over the LLBean is the VTD. I'm hoping that the Legacy turbo gets the same VTD that the GT has. I guess just an H6 in the Outback doesn't do enough for me.

-Brian

rwitte · February 2003

but almost the same amount more expensive than the base Outback. I guess that makes perfect sense for Subaru, I was just hoping for it to be closer to the base than the Bean. H-6 sounds good, but may still be too much $ me. Oh well, H-4 is adequate, right? Right?

Randy

otis123 · February 2003

Unfortunately, the H6 makes the Outback ride and feel like an entry-level luxury automobile. IMHO (as an H6 owner). It's good to see Subaru bringing it down to a base model - it's a SWEET engine..

Ralph

firstov · February 2003

In reply to post #7507:
My new ll Bean has stalled today at red light.

schiza - have you got your car fixed?

c_hunter · February 2003

Part of what makes the Bean and VDC feel so refined is the additional insulation and sound deadening material. If the H6 Outback doesn't have that, I don't think it will have the same near-luxo feel. Otherwise, the H6 is a real sweetie, and worth the extra dough to me. If the offered a 5-spd manual transmission, that would really rock. I think the H6 is waiting for the right application to really come alive.

Craig

ateixeira · February 2003

My guess is the GT will keep VTD, but only with automatic. But a 2.5T would be nice even with a slushbox.

The H4 is certainly adequate. It's just that the H6 is *more* than adequate, smooth even when asked to perform.

If they dropped the price $3200, my guess is that extra insulation is gone. Still, the H6 is quieter than the H4, so it won't be any louder than average.

-juice

ladywclass · February 2003

I wish they'd had a 6 cylinder BASE wagon when I bought mine .. I've been happy with the 4 cylinder, and bought mine shortly before the bean arrived ... but I wouldn't have wanted to pay for the roofs and leather and extras of the bean to have the 6 cylinder .... A few times it would have been nice to have the added boost of the 6 ...

xccoachlou · February 2003

I surfed several dealer sites and the H6 Outback is nowhere to be found.

If you think about the moon roofs being around a $1000 option, leather is around $750, the stereo upgrade $800, and the side air bags $350, you come up with $2900. Throw in "on-star" and the maintenance, and you have the $3200 difference.

The H6 Outback has radically changed my plans. I was set to buy this weekend, but am going to wait until dealers have the H6 in stock.

- Lou

artdecho · February 2003

Not sure if this link will work...
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/ae_news_story.php?id=34331
In Auto Express's story on the new Subaru coupe, they mentioned that this new direction in styling
won't be reflected in the new Legacy, which was apparently revealed in the magazine last week.
Can't find any mention of this searching back through the online version but wonder if it was just in the print version. Unless they're talking about the spy photo which all of us have seen by now.

rob999 · February 2003

I like the overall idea, but that's one bizarre grille treatment. Looks like an Alfa grille, as designed by an ex-Alfa designer.

docfreed · February 2003

Read the posts on this - I bought an H6 sedan about 3 weks ago. It's fabulous - right after I bought I drove 1000 miles from Chicago through the snow belt. The H6 engine is really powerful compared to our 4 cyl outback wagon. Some comments.

I got the all weather package for $305 (list $395)
Outside of a little wind noise it's very quiet
The auto temp control works very well
The handling is awesome - if anyone is thinking of getting a WRX think twice - the H6 is a much better buy and the 212 HP engine is almost as fast

One thing I'd like is Xenon Lamps - I posted a few weeks ago but it was misread. Pep Boys does sell genuine Xenon-filled H4 headlamps - anyone know if you can use these on Outbacks without changing any wiring, etc.

jfl · February 2003

A coupe would be great but I don't care much for the grille. Yes, it does look like an upside down Alfa grille. I think it's a shame that this designer carries this baggage. How about something fresh!

Subaru doesn't need the Alfa/BMW/Pontiac/Edsel grille treatment! This worries me about future models and whether I'll like the look.

Jim

rob999 · February 2003

IT IS AN EDSEL GRILLE !!! (Updated for the new century)!!

rob999 · February 2003

I just visited that UK site again - and the current banner ad on that page was for an Alfa 147 with a very similar grille.

wmiller4 · February 2003

http://www.newsubaru.com/LIBERT~2/Liberty_Subarx.html

They treat you right!

fibber2 · February 2003

<< One thing I'd like is Xenon Lamps - I posted a few weeks ago but it was misread. Pep Boys does sell genuine Xenon-filled H4 headlamps - anyone know if you can use these on Outbacks without changing any wiring, etc. >>

I remember your previous post, and am not sure how to answer because there may be several issues causing confusion.

Item 1: H4 bulbs, like 99% of headlights sold since around 1980, are conventional tungsten filament light sources surrounded by a non-oxidizing gas and a small high purity quartz glass, rather than a simple vacuum and cheap glass. The gas promotes the redeposition of the tungsten back onto the filament, rather than onto the glass envelope - part of why they can burn hotter and stay brighter longer than conventional bulbs. Over time, several different gases have been used, the current popular one is the halogen gas xenon. Chances are the stock bulbs contain xenon also.

Item 2: My '02 OBW has the 4 bulb system type-H1 low beams (single filament 55w, 1380 lumens), and HB3/9005 high beams (single filament 65w, 1700 lumens). In high beam mode both bulbs are on, giving a total light output of 3080 lumens. This is a pretty good combination for a factory setup.

You asked about using H4 bulbs. These are bi-filament 55w/1000 lumen low beam, 60w/1650w lumen high beam designed for 2 bulb systems. I have them on my Honda. I believe the base model Legacy uses the lower output HB5/9007. Even with both filaments used, the output is well less than the 4 bulb system, and probably not as well aimed.

So I doubt an H4 would physically fit, the pinout is different from the stock low beam H1 (3 wire vs 2), and the light output is less. Stay with what you've got.

The only other issue would be upgrading to HID lamps. These are arc lamps, like mercury or sodium street lamps, and require a high voltage ignition supply.

I am not sure if I have explained this well - ask more specifics if you are confused!!

Steve

fibber2 · February 2003

This is why I shouldn't post late at night when the brain is fuzzy. While both halogen and inert gases are used in bulbs, Xenon is an inert element.

Steve

c_hunter · February 2003

Thanks for that info, good stuff to know!

Craig

docfreed · February 2003

Dear Fibber2:

Thanks for the very lucid answer to my questions re: Xenon bulbs. I think that my confusion lies with the difference between HID lamps (I had them on my Acura) and halogen lamps with a Xenon fill.
It's apparent that to get the real white, very bright beams you need a different power supply, wiring, etc.

Thanks again

hypov · February 2003

Those 'xenon' filled bulbs are the cheaper alternative to the HIDs, but they are still not as effecient as the HIDs. When choosing, avoid those that are excessively tinted with blue. They only make the lumination look whiter, that's it, and may perform worst than plain halogen. Personally, I'll go with an auxillary lamp. More money spent but the addition does have its benefit, i.e. if one bulb goes, you still have a working set.

-Dave

jerrys2 · February 2003

I have been a faithful reader (and occasional participant) on this board for nearly four years.
I purchased my 2000 Ltd in mid '99 (replaced my '96 Outback). Enjoyed them both, and we already miss the Ltd. Which has been taken over by my daughter...I trust it will give her another 60k miles of trouble free driving.

Since we have an '02 Forester ...I replaced the Outback with an '03 Saab 9.5. I won't get in to the reasons, but because of dealer incentives I purchased about $5k below invoice, which I learned about on the Saab Board from a fellow Subaru owner (also owns a Saab)... perhaps there is a common thread here, maybe the GM connection.

LOve the turbo and paisian and few others will be glad to know that the Owners manual provides instruction on how to disable the DRL...just remove a fuse, I have already done it.

I will miss this board but will see some of you on the Forester Board.

Jerry

fibber2 · February 2003

You are most welcome. I wasn't sure if you were trying to make an intentional substitution within the conventional lamp family, or were confusing these with HIDs. I probably should have asked you another question first before overloading with data!

Steve

soobnewbie · February 2003

Hi there, I'm looking to buy a 2003 Outback wagon and have visited two dealerships. Interestingly, both salespeople tried to steer me away from a V6 engine right from the start.

Furthermore, when I indicated that I definitely wanted to test drive a Limited and a VDC for comparison, I was steered away from the VDC and toward the LL Bean edition. "The Bean is better in snow," the salesperson said.

Perhaps this is merely a case of salespeople trying to meet certain quotas. (Although the Bean-steering dealership did have a dozen VDCs on the lot.) But it has me wondering what (if any) downsides exist with the VDC technology.

I'd love your thoughts . . .

(BTW: I absolutely preferred the Bean edition over the Ltd. The ride was much smoother, quieter and more responsive.)

sebberry · February 2003

Glad to hear you are interested in an Outback. I have an H6 wagon (Canadian model, leather and sunroofs) and love it.

The LL Bean will run quieter and smoother than the Ltd due to more insulation, and a quieter, smoother engine. The VDC will be even quieter due to extra insulation for the MacIntosh audio system.

The dealer is probabally steering you away from the VDC and LL Bean because they are harder to get, (especially the VDC), and if he sells you the Ltd he will have his money sooner. But it is your car. I think the H6 is a superior engine to the H4, (the H4 is good, by the way), and provides a lot of power when you need it without being rediculously overpowered.

As for being good in the snow, the Ltd and Bean should be the same, they use the Same AWD system.

The VDC adds Vehicle Dynamics Control, a system that gathers information from various sensors (Yaw, throttle position, steering wheel speed) to control under/oversteer by applying braking to individual wheels to keep you on your intended path. A nice feature if you encounter ice or snow frequently on your daily drives. If that is an appealing feature, as well at the ultra-premium sound system, then go with the VDC.

Like I stated above, I have the Canadian version of the Beaner and have no complaints about it. And who could not like gripping the wooden steering wheel?

One final note: If the Beaner is out of your price range, look at the H6 wagon SOA has just introduced. It is a base wagon with the H6 motor. However, it does not come with the 6 Disc CD plaer, leather or sunroofs.

Enjoy!

Subaru Legacy/Outback

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