Subaru Legacy/Outback

c_hunter · February 2004

My experience is that you should use premium fuel; you will definitely notice the effect of lower octane through the entire power band (a loss of 4HP at peak is only a small and misleading part of the story, unless you happen to drive at 6000rpm all the time). With lower octane, the ECU retards the timing all the way through the power band.

Let's say you drive 15,000 miles a year and average 24mpg. The difference between regular and premium gas will be less than $200 in my part of the country. I've also seen data suggeting you can possibly get better gas mileage on premium gas in many cases, which offsets or reverses the cost difference.

BTW, I generally get 22-30mpg in my LL Bean on premium gas.

Craig

canoeist · February 2004

I average 24 mpg with my '02 LL Bean. With gas prices in NE Ohio it costs me about $10 a month more to use premium, at 15K a year. Not enough $$$ difference for me to switch to a lower octane and lower the performance of the car.

oregonaj · February 2004

I've tried both with my 03 Outback and found the performance difference to be neglible (unnoticeable most of the time) in the kind of mixed suburban/rural driving we mostly do. I've found no difference in gas mileage between the two so I use regular most of the time and only switch to premium for trips (not sure whether that's even warranted).

Good luck, Jim

otis123 · February 2004

I have only used premium for the past 54K miles on my 2001 LLBean. I regularly get anywhere from a low of 18 mpg to a high of 23 mpg - w/ no apparent cause/effect in the way I drive - it's whatever the Bean feels like giving me. I got 25 mpg once in the summer w/ the air blasting going 80 mph on a long trip (could never figure that one out).

But, Craig, 30 mpg in a 6 cyl that weighs 3750 lbs.?? Never! You must have a leak in your Bean....the vapors are getting the best of you...

:-)

Ralph

c_hunter · February 2004

But, Craig, 30 mpg in a 6 cyl that weighs 3750 lbs.?? Never! You must have a leak in your Bean....the vapors are getting the best of you...

I was surprised too, and figured it was an inaccurate gas pump (in which case I paid for less fuel than I got). But it happened with the very next tank too. It was during a trip we took to Hilton Head SC last May. About 8 hours each way, just cruising at 70mph, no real hills, temps in the low 70s. I regularly get 28mpg on highway trips, so 30 isn't that much of a stretch, especially under those conditions.

Craig

ateixeira · February 2004

The H6 is geared very tall. It revs low, so it's both quiet and efficient.

-juice

jay_24 · February 2004

Paying more for premium may not be much $$, but its about the same as getting about 3mpg to 4mpg less.
So 575 gallons per year (26 mpg and 15000miles) @ 1.60 is the same as buying 660 gallons at $1.40 or 22.7mpg.

30mpg for a 6 cylinder? sure. Its called a Buick. My parents LeSabre (3570lbs) get 30+ on the highway often during the summer.

--jay

paisan · February 2004

On the highway with my 3680lb SVX and 250hp and 3.3L H6

-mike

otis123 · February 2004

I'll have to drive faster and longer...

:-)

Ralph

ohmygosh · February 2004

Was just at the auto show in Philly. Ready to purchase either the Highlander Limited or the Murano. When I saw the Outback LL Bean edition I did a double take. What info can anyone provide on this auto. Positive and negative. What should I expect to spend well equipped?/

c_hunter · February 2004

First of all, wait for the new 05 models that will be revealed at the Chicago auto show in a couple days. You can see pics here:

salbaby1972 "Subaru Crew - Future Models II" Feb 3, 2004 8:34pm

The 05 models will go on sale in the late spring/early summer timeframe. They look like excellent vehicles.

I have an 02 LL Bean and love it. I chose this over the Acura MDX by the way. The Bean's engine is fantastic, I get great gas mileage, and overall, it's a very smooth and quiet package. I don't recall exact numbers, but I got the car for about $200 over invoice (it's typical to pay close to invoice for most Subarus) which is significantly less than the sticker price. You can check the new car section of Edmunds for sticker and invoice pricing.

The cars come pretty loaded up as is. I think I had spoiler and winter mats as the only options.

If you get an 04, I'm sure you can get an excellent deal. If you get an 05, you'll probably have to wait until the fall before the deals are reasonable.

Craig

blackbean · February 2004

Hi All,
Came across a good article on a debate I have seen quite often on these boards. Whether or not to burn regular fuel in a premium fuel engine. Car and Driver recently conducted a scientific test (results are available online for those who are interested) but their conclusion was:

"Cheapskates burning regular in cars designed to run on premium fuel can expect to trim performance by about the same percent they save at the pump. If the car is sufficiently new and sophisticated, it may not suffer any ill effects, but all such skinflints should be ready to switch back to premium at the first sign of knock or other drivability woes."

Kind of what much of the anecdotal research done by our Subie mmebers has suggested all along...

Matt :-)

ateixeira · February 2004

The 2004 Outback LL Bean can be had for a bargain price now because that 2005 is on the way.

I've seen street prices down around $26k, check fitzmall.com if you live near the DC area. That's a bargain for AWD, ABS, heated seats/mirrors and wiper de-icers, alloys, 2 moonroofs, leather, etc.

-juice

nygreg · February 2004

This is a dangerous car. This morning, after the snow/rain/ice we had yesterday, I took my daughter to the bus and went to get coffee. Back home and then off to work, up and down the driveway twice in the OB. Just as I pulled into work I get a panic call from my wife that she can't get up the driveway in the minivan and my daughter was late for an important test at school. I would have thrown ice melt on the dw and driven the minivan to the top if I had known it was that slippery. But, the OB went up and down twice without a hint of trouble. My daughter will remind me of this for a long time. It's a dangerous car.

BTW - I have been driving the mv and switched for today as my wife needed the extra room. Bad move I guess.

Greg

fibber2 · February 2004

I spent two hours eary this morning out chipping ice for exactly the same reason. I knew that the OBW would have no problem with the hill, but knew that Beth would never be able to get up with the Ody (traction control is worthless if both sides are on ice).

If you were any kind of husband, you would have told your customer that the family was more important, and that you were going to be late! Oh wait, customer? Hey, that's me!!! On second thought, Greg - get your butt in gear and get to work!!

Steve

nygreg · February 2004

I drove back home, threw "Salt" on the dw (although my wife had done most of it by the time I got there) and drove the mv to the top. I had no idea the dw was that bad. Almost 40F this morning, and I live 20 miles south of you. What really makes it bad is that she fell on the ice and hit her chin. I feel terrible, especially since I always make sure things are taken care of before I leave (except today I guess). I did throw in the "you know, we should dump the minivan and get another Subaru so this won't happen again".

Greg

ateixeira · February 2004

Back when we had only one Subie, the wife would steal mine if conditions were poor. Now we have 2, no fighting.

-juice

nygreg · February 2004

That's what is killing me. She has been driving the OB pretty exclusively lately due to the weather. Today we switched since she needed the extra seats for "company". Argh, and more nasty weather on Friday and Saturday.

Greg

stever · February 2004

You know, dw could stand for Dear Wife or DriveWay. Your post sort of works both ways :-)

I haven't missed a powder day yet due to my wife stealing the OB, but it's been touch and go a couple of days. Twice I've had to walk down to the street and drive the MV up to the garage (and once I didn't make it).

Steve, Host

nygreg · February 2004

that's funny. Even though I know dw could stand for, well, dw I never re-read the post with that in mind. Rest assured I didn't throw salt on her. The minivan yes, her no.

Thanks for the laugh,
Greg

fibber2 · February 2004

That is exactly what I thought also - that you threw salt at your wife!! I reread it three times before I caught on to driveway...

Steve

breckco · February 2004

I have a 2003 OBW and would like a resource for maintanance items such as transmission and diff services. Is there a Subaru manual just for this purpose or would I have to get the entire shop manual, much of which I would probably never use.

Chris

lakepop · February 2004

Try here..............

http://techinfo.subaru.com/html/index.jsp

Just download what you need.

Hope this helps.

nygreg · February 2004

are evil. If I threw salt at my wife, dw would then stand for divorced widow.

Greg

nygreg · February 2004

still can't believe you thought I meant my wife. Geez.

G

zman3 · February 2004

You said it, not us.

20llbean · February 2004

My wife has the Subaru all the time (lucky her!) and the other day the security light on the dash was flashing when she came back to the car at the mall. I followed the instructions in the manual but could not reset the light. It flashes very fast so I can't tell if it is flashing three times or two times. Anybody have any suggestions before I go to the dealer? I was thinking of disconnecting the battery to see if that works but the code may be set in the computer. Thanks!

rob_m · February 2004

Is the security system in valet mode? When I replaced the battery on my 99 GT, the security light was giving a rapid flash, no matter what I did. Finally, I was able to take it out of valet mode by pressing the unlock button on the remote with the driver's door open. I hope this helps!

20llbean · February 2004

Rob M:

That was it. After reading the manual some more, I found the fix. Thanks. Wife must have hit the Unlock/disarm anmd held for several seconds.

20llbean · February 2004

Car has 39K miles on it and new tires seem to be in order. The original Firestone's were a disappointment at times, the only 'flaw' with the car. What are good replacements, anyone with any suggestions? I was considering Yokohama's or Bridgestone. Michelin's are expensive and I was disappointed with Michelin's on my accord, though that may not matter on the subaru.

c_hunter · February 2004

I have heard good things about:

Bridgestone RE-950
Michelin Pilot XGT H4
Michelin MXV4
Continental ContiPremierContact
Continental ContiTouringContact

You might want to go over to tirerack.com and read up on each of them (maybe look at reviews too). I'm sure other folks will chime in. Personally, I'll probably go for the RE-950 tires myself when the time comes.

Craig

sebberry · February 2004

I replaced the Potenzas at 28,000 Kms with a nice tall set of BF Goodrich Traction T/A. So far, I am pretty impressed with these tires. (2000Kms already)

Driving in slush (I got them as the snow was melting) they had great sideways grip. (The Potenzas slid all over the place, I might as well have strapped skiis on the car.)

In rain, again the grip is great, especially when cornering. Hydroplaning is also no-more.

I have noticed a slight improvment in fuel economy, however the tires are slightly louder (I emphasize slightly)

I have noticed a touch more wheel spin under acceleration (from a stop around a corner) but it is quickly brought under control by the AWD. However, there is no loss of directional stability (car drifting because of the spin) as the tires have excellent sideways traction.

Go for the V speed rated, they have a stiffer sidewall, and the ride is a little firmer if you like that.

If you like the smaller details, they have a pretty aggressive looking tread that suits the Bean well.

Have fun searching, the web has a lot of good tire information and reviews. (I won't link to the review site as a previous post was removed because there was a forum at that site)

toboggan · February 2004

Thanks for theinformation regarding the B.F.Goodrich Traction T/A's. I'm leaning towards those to replace the Michilens (sp) on my '98 OBW (Always use Blzzaks Nov-Apr).

MNSteve

cptplt · February 2004

these get great ratings at Tirerack and consumer reports. though I'm not 100% sure they come in OB size but I plan on getting them for my Legacy. Had the Pilot XGT H4 before, they were good but the Turanza looks like it may be better

anibalb · February 2004

Hey Folks,

It has been a while since I last posted. I want to sell my 01 OB Limited. What is a realistic value. I tried KBB and Edmunds and they vary a lot. Also, I looked on Bargain News and Autoweb.com and it seems the ones for sale there are much more than what Edmunds suggests. Finally, what sites do you guys recommend to advertise it.

Thanks much.

robr2 · February 2004

Post over at Real World Trade In Values here at Edmunds. Provide all the details (color, condition, miles, previous accidents, your location, et al) and you'll get a pretty good number to work with.

20llbean · February 2004

Sebberry and Rob M

Thanks. I will look into prices.

toboggan · February 2004

Only T rating for the '98 OBW (205/70-15). H & V ratings only to 205/60-15. Not interested in a "shorter" sidewall when dealing with pot holes and gravel roads. But at least they are under $75/tire.

MNSteve

anibalb · February 2004

Thanks robr2,

I looked in edmunds and the trade-in for an 01 OB Ltd. is 13,400. The private retail is 15,500 or so. However all the ones I see for sale online around this area are asking 18 or 19K. That is a big variance.

Also, I paid 26K and retail is 13K, that means in 3 years the car has devalued to half. Is this reasonable? Mind boggling!

Thanks for opinions

c_hunter · February 2004

It's hard to judge the depreciation, but it is surely not based on the $13K trade-in value. It would be based on the realistic selling price, which seems to be $15.5-19K according to your numbers. The other thing to keep in mind is that most Subarus sell for close to invoice when new, so you should base the original value of the car on that price, not sticker.

It's all about market prices when you buy and sell. Ideally, you want to buy on the low side and sell on the high side!

Craig

anibalb · February 2004

Craig,

Thanks. Just so you know, 26K is what I paid for the car not the sticker price. I bought the car in CA and we just relocated to CT. I am sure I am losing value there. In any case, where is the best place to advertise. I already know of Bargain news. Anywhere else?

Thanks

c_hunter · February 2004

My folks live in CT, and my Dad regularly advertises in and reads the Bargain news. Seems like a good bet to me. I guess you should also advertise in your local paper.

Craig

steine13 · February 2004

FORGET the guides. They aren't writing checks.
Check my profile for a link to a web site that explains a lot of this stuff.

Also, hop on over to Real-World Trade-In Values adn post a great description, miles, condition (honest condition, not "EXCELLENT" like everyone else), color, location, transmission, service history, miles, tire condition, does it need anything, and esp. MILES.

As far as the market on these things; they bringn all the money, and you mgiht be pleasantly surprised yet.

-Mathias

anibalb · February 2004

Thanks for the info Mathias,

But where is this real world trade in value page?? I can't seem to find it anywhere. You are the second person to mention it. I always rate my car good. It was excellent when I drove it off the lot. I also read your website. Lots of information. Cool!

robr2 · February 2004

Do a search here at townhall for real world and it will take you there. Or follow this link:

/WebX?searchResults@@.ef14c39!keywords=real%20world&count=100&logged_in=1- 076342918

As for the high asking prices - that's what they are: asking prices. It's New England, it's winter, demand for 4wd is high but not that high. In reality, the New England region represents something like 50% of Subaru sales in the US - they are a dime a dozen used.

ateixeira · February 2004

Dealer trade is a low-ball. Asking prices are optimistic. It'll fall some where in between.

Even though you paid $26k, they cost a little less today, so that's a factor. Today you could get an H6 LL Bean for that much, with incentives.

And while it may not seem old to you, the 2005s will be here in May or June, so by then it'll seem 4 years old even if it isn't. Let's say it's 3 years old, though.

My rule of thumb is you lose 10% driving off the lot, then 10% every year after that. So it's $26k brand new, $23,400 with 1 mile driven, $21,060 after 1 year, $18,954 after 2 years, $17,058 after 3 years, etc.

IMO, if you can get $17k or more, resale was good. Some cars do slightly better, some cars do a *lot* worse.

So I think resale is pretty decent, just sell before the 2005s arrive, it'll seem older then.

Boa sorte amigo. What did you replace it with?

-juice

subarujon · February 2004

Has anyone tried the Permatex Form A Seal spray on leak repair to fix an oil pan gasket leak? Is it worth the effort? I know the proper fix is to replace the gasket...but that is costly. Right now the leak is just an aggrevation....small dribbles on the driveway. (Acutually, my Outback is fine...this issue is with my girlfriend's '98 Lexus ES 300 with about 100K miles....a $400 repair...sorry about this, but I posted to the Lexus group with only one response...I know I will get some feedback with this group). Thanks!

ateixeira · February 2004

Did the Toyota/Lexus folks know of any wholesalers? I bet the wholesale price for that gasket is actually not bad. That 3.0l engine is shared with Toyota and you might get cheaper parts prices from a Toyota wholesaler vs. a Lexus retailer.

I would find the cheapest part and then do it myself. Can't be that hard. Just get the torque specifications.

-juice

kmclean · February 2004

Since I'm about to head down to Mt Bachelor for a ski week, I decided that this was a good time to swap the original Firestones (had 39,256 miles on them) for some new shoes on my 2K OB wagon. Never had any complaints with the Firestones, BTW. This should be a good snow test.

Bought Goodyear Eagle GT-HRs - same size as OEM tires. They're a fairly new product, but had good surveys and ratings at TireRack, so I'll let you know how they work out. Next year I'll swap shoes on my '97 Maxima (still have the original tires - only 27K on the car - which is garaged most of the time), and may well go for the HRs if I like them after a year's driving. The original Eagle GT-RSAs on the Max have always been a bit skittish on our hilly Seattle streets - especially with only FWD, persistent rain and slop, and a frisky V6. An H speed rating is more than enough for me.

More to follow...

Ken in (sunny - finally) Seattle

pathtomax · February 2004

I finally made up my mind to go with the Bridgestone's. I was leaning toward the Michelin MXV4's as I have had good luck with them before but Consumer Reports and TireRack rate these very high.

I am pushing the Wilderness tires at about 42k right now..hoping to reach 50k before replacing. They are really bad in snow but just enough tread to get around NH winters. I really should replace them soon though...

So, I see that everyone recommends staying with Size:225/60-16 with the V-Rating?

Subaru Legacy/Outback

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