Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
I'm absolutely baffled by their reaction to the concept Microbus, though. I think it's uglier than the Pontiac Aztec (itself uglier than that ridiculous "rubber truck" the Chevy Avalanche), doesn't remind me at all of the original Transporter, and I have absolutely no desire to own one. The Eurovan is a box, which is the most efficient use of space for a van anyway. At least it doesn't have the high rear floor over the rear engine of the vanagon, which was an otherwise decent box (with a Subaru engine, perhaps).
The first generation Transporters are still attractive today, in a truly retro sort of way. A few years ago, a concept microbus sketch was floating around the web that retained a lot of the original lines, which the current concept does not. Wish they'd built that one instead. The new Microbus doesn't even come close to approximating the original lines like the new Beetle does. It should be buried and forgotten. No way it'll be as successful.
I don't care a hoot about front/back viewable lcd screens in the back seats, game stations, or any of the silly Gen X, Y, or Z concepts I've heard about. And I STILL don't want an automatic transmission, even if it means not buying another Eurovan to get a stick.
Somewhat like an old cartoon in a Model A Restorer magazine once read: "Milady can have her Sport Coupe, Let the fancies fondle their Phaetons, and the snobbish are welcome to their Town Cars. But give a man a Truck!!"
-Tim.
It's all there with pictures, prices and specs. The vans are only available with the 5 cylinder 2.5 engine and 5 - speed manual transmission and they come in Cargo van and Passenger van configurations. The vans are all short-nose models that are dead-ringers for what we know in the US as 1993 Eurovans (except they are longer and a tad higher). Apparently they are not intended for the US market and they most likely can not be imported (I think due to safety requirements that the short-nose no longer meets).
Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
Point by point:
"a combination of floppy handling, archaic ergonomics and a lack of family-friendly features": My 1993 EV handles very well for a VAN (it's not a minivan, dammit). I bet the current EV is at least as agile. ergonomics? Who cares? I've gotten used to where things are in my 93, and can adjust the radio or heater/AC without looking at them now. I guess if I were hopping from one vehicle to the next, constantly, like an Edmunds reviewer perhaps, I'd be more likely to complain about each vehicle being different. Family-friendly? I guess I'm so old and have had so many old vehicles that I don't know what this means these days. I thought my folks' 1961 Ford Econoline was family-friendly. It sure hauled the 7 of us around alright (though not exactly comfortably!).
" the latest Vee-Dub van should surely rival the current domestic and Asian models, right?" Once again, why are you guys still comparing the EV to these Family Transport Pods? I bought my 93 because it ISN'T "car-like". I wanted a van that could carry stuff and people without buying a full-size van. Characterizing a van as "car-like" just turns me off. They're fine for taxis or hauling babies around, but my kids are grown and I'd just like to do stuff like haul plywood or go camping for a weekend in the dirt. Can't do that with one of the Pods. The only thing comparable to the EV is the Chevy Astro, only it's bigger, heavier, more archaic by about 10 years, and has less interior room.
"captain's chairs (as opposed to the standard bench seat) in the second row": Groan. I LIKE the second row bench seat! Even better would be a front and middle 3-person bench seat like the ones I saw in Europe, making the EV a 9-passenger vehicle. But the so-called "American car-buyer" has to have extremely limited options. The lack of a 5-speed or 4x4 option, both available in Europe (and the 5-speed now available in Mexico) is another casualty to this American Buyer nonsense. That bothers me.
"can't make a 10-year-old platform feel like a 21st Century minivan" THANK GOODNESS FOR THAT!
"The EuroVan's floppy handling is perplexing when one considers that, other than the Odyssey, it's the only minivan that currently utilizes an independent rear suspension": Heck, the 1949 Microbus used fully independent suspension, front and rear. They didn't handle that well by modern standards either. What's this got to do with anything?
"The driver's footwell area, for example, proved a constant annoyance for one driver with size-11 feet": Mine are size 9.5. I'm quite comfortable in my EV. The steering wheel is in just the right place for me, and the seat backs are the most comfortable (for me) of any vehicle I've driven. No complaints here.
"the EuroVan's tall, upright windshield and generally boxy shape": Unfortunately, this will still be the most efficient use of space for a van for centuries to come. The Pods are lousy for interior volume efficiency by comparison to the EV.
Can't help you with the temperature displays or controls. I just tweak the knobs (again without looking at them) to make myself comfortable inside, and put my hand against the door glass if I want to know whether it's hot or cold outside. And since I drive up and down I-15 through the California desert, I've got that big thermometer at the Bun Boy in Baker to tell me what the temperature actually is!
"did figure out how to fold the third-row seat flat, but only after three editors spent about 10 minutes trying to figure it out": That's pretty good, actually. I once spent 45 minutes with a couple of friends WITH the owner's manual trying to lower the spare tire in a Nissan Pathfinder we'd rented, so we could change a flat. Couldn't line the jack/crank handle with the socket DEEP inside the body to turn the crank for that long, and we KNEW where to put the crank.
"Even after figuring out how to drop the third-row seatback, we couldn't figure out how to remove the seat completely. Obviously, an owner's manual would have helped here...but we've never needed one for seat removal in the current Dodge and Honda offerings.": Hm. I've never actually measured this, mind you, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if the EV has more cargo volume with the second and third seats folded down than the biggest Pods with the seats removed. Where would you put the seats? What if you needed them at your destination? I once put a full-size dining room table and all 6 chairs in my EV without taking out any seats.
"Almost every other minivan comes with dual-sliding doors, too, but not the Volkswagen": Once again, who cares? If it had a left side sliding door, the MV wouldn't have a place for the folding table. That's a cool item that the Pods don't have a match for.
"As a former Odyssey owner, I was repeatedly annoyed after exiting the driver's door and turning around to retrieve my three-year-old son before realizing " Boy, are you easy to annoy! In a few years, your 3-year old will be self-propelled and won't NEED for you to get him out of his seat. Mine hasn't been 3-years old for over 11 years now.
"the price, which is roughly equivalent to a better-equipped Honda Odyssey EX": but the Honda Odyssey would bottom out on a piece of gum on the pavement... Okay, that's an exaggeration, but you couldn't take a Pod down a dirt road and camp away from everybody else. Though my EV doesn't do so well off-road as my 67 Microbus did, it does much better than a Pod.
"those who want something different": like me. Trouble is that this narrowing of options by this perceived need to make every van just like the Honda Oddity or the Mopars results in an EV without the nifty things I'd want most: Like a 5-speed, or 4x4, or TDI diesel, or a REAL Westfalia Camper (not a Winnie) - all of which are produced in quantity in Europe. VOA won't flex either. I get no response from them when I ask whether I could get a stick shift in my next EV. Which is why I may not ever get a next EV.
"Please, Volkswagen, hurry up with the Microbus!" For RICE CAKE, NO!!!! The old Microbus had charm, though some think they are ugly. The new concept Microbus is hideous. I, at least, would much rather have a Eurovan.
Bottom line: I'm very much "Pro Choice" when it comes to buying vehicles. Choices for US buyers are getting more limited all the time.
-Tim.
Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
(yeah, I had a '69 bus back then for a year or so).
Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
In fairness, we did find one OUTSTANDING VW dealership that was able to correct the problems the original dealership caused on our 77 VW Bus.
How do VW dealers treat the customers now in the year 2001? Thanks. Carl
No, I don't think automobile reviewers are inherently malicious toward the VW Eurovan, just because they insist on comparing it to the Pods. (Heck, remember: one or two of those reviews came out favorably). No, I just think they're basically stupid.
-Tim.
But then, I posted this message just before this one with just the Title! I blame it on my computer keyboard.
-Tim.
Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
Well, at least I like to think I'm not as hard on the Edmunds reviewers as some of the people posting to your letters to the editor page.
All in good fun! ...but if my rants ever result in a little variety available in autos in the future, then I'll feel like I've accomplished something. More likely, though, people like me are down in the noise.
Like I heard on the news this weekend that Cadillac or Lincoln (I honestly can't remember which) has a new SPUTE at the LA Auto show that has automatic retractable running boards and other silly gizmos. Why, when I was growning up, a van or a 4x4 was a "test of a man's ability to withstand pain", or at least a method of entirely practical, if spartan, transportation. I want another one of those!
-Tim.
My '69 VW van wasn't all that painful (except when the head pulled apart on the engine).
Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
You're right, of course. Especially at the time, "old vehicles" weren't painful. It's only when I contemplate driving my 60 VW pickup across the desert in 100 deg. heat at 55-60mph, being passed by trucks and BMWs going upwards of 80mph, that I think it's painful. Would be too, if one of those twits on their way to Vegas on I-15 were to rear-end me passing another twit that won't get out of the left lane for several hours. Doesn't anybody read the "slower traffic keep right" signs anymore? Guess they don't apply to illiterates.
In summary, it can be a bit scary driving the freeways at 20mph+ slower than the flow of traffic. And I actually did that drive last year! Poor truck's case bolts all loosened up. Had to tear it down almost to the short block to tighten everything back up again. First time I had head leaks that didn't indicate pulled case studs.
-Tim.
I remember driving alongside one of those Mits vans in my '93 EV in a strong, gusty wind. Poor driver was all over the road, swinging that steering wheel back and forth trying to keep between the lines. I honestly didn't notice it was that windy until I saw him and thought he might have been drinking... I saw a bunch of those vans in Iceland last year. There, they were available in a really capable-looking 4x4 configuration. I wonder if one of ours could be modified using drive components from a Montero or something... hm...
You'll find the Eurovan is a lot bigger inside than the Mitsubishi, too, particularly without that big engine compartment inside the van.
Reliability? Better get someone else to comment here, because I've never owned the VR6. Mine has the 5-banger. That engine has been flawless for the 140K miles I've put on it, but that particular van has been a lemon since new. Mostly electrical problems, but the transmission has also needed to be rebuilt about 4 times. The first three were under warranty, the last was at 100K miles and at my considerable expense! I used to follow the Eurovan email lists, and it seems to me that my van was unusual for it's large numbers of repairs (lucky me!). So, I may take a chance and buy a new EV when I can. I still prefer sticks, though, but VWoA won't let me buy a new one with a 5-speed. I doubt very much the engine would need work at 70K miles but, once again, probably better wait for comment from someone that has one with some miles on it.
-Tim.
http://www.geocities.com/harald_nancy/new_t5_eurovan.htm
As for the bed in the poptop, you climb up using furniture as a stool in the camper or perhaps the rear facing jumpseats in the MV.
Please drop by and introduce yourself in Meet the Members.
Thanks!
KarenS
Host
Owner's Clubs
Let me guess fuel injection problems and ultimately dropped exhaust valves, right?
>Too bad VW dealers were not very pleasant when VW was the #1 import vehicle.
Hence the fact that they sell only a few thousand EV's per year now.
>Volkswagen bus/van are by far the most space efficient of their genre.
Yes. What I want is a Eurovan powered by a fuel efficient engine (TDI) and assembled by Toyota or Honda. Is that too much to ask???
I think Volkswagen does a fine job engineering and assembling....it was the arrogant, greedy, incompetent dealerships that alienated me with these 2 busses, a NEW 1971 Super Beetle, and a NEW 1975 Rabbit. Hopefully VW dealers learned their lesson well with the drastic drop in sales and now treat customers properly.
In fairness, there were 2 excellent VW dealerships...1 in South Tacoma, Washington and the other one in South Salt Lake, Utah but we only had brief encounters with these 2.
When I asked VW of America about doing just that, their response was that there is no such thing. When I pointed out that there was, I got no further replies.
Guess the answer is no.
-Tim.
-Tim.
http://www.vw-nutzfahrzeuge.de/
unique quirks of eurovans. go to www.VWupdate.com
or contact www. gregoryw@paducah.com
i do not represent this business nor do i profit from it just a source of info for me. Steve O
Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
Eurovan issues are often discussed on the vanagon.com list also.
The sorry part is that they have this exact Eurovan available in Germany.
I am a brand new (ha, ha, ha) owner of a 1985 Vanagon! I just bought this vehicle with 150000 miles on the clock (body is in decent condition, brakes seem to be good, steering is nice and tight. It has the 2 liter opposed four, and it runs fine. I want to clean it up and give it to my son as his first vehicle (he just got his permit). My reasons behind it, it is very slow an lame, it shouts and screams if it comes close to its limits in cornering, it uses lots of gas (result is not much driving), and he can haul his band stuff around with it. I am locking for any suggestions on what can/will happen with this vehicle and what preventive measures I should undertake (engine, transmission, etc). I am pretty well equipped with tools & car knowledge (I am presently re-building my third old English roadster, which will be my sons summer car).
So any advise and help is greatly appreciated!
thanks again.