Any Questions for a Car Dealer?

im_brentwood · March 2001

I wish that more manufacturers would go to these types of programs.

Like instead of huge rebates and dealer incentives... how about a free CD Changer and Manintinence and a year of warranty extension for people who buy their cars after, say, July?

Instead of $1,500 cash back on, say, an Avalon, why not throw in some goodies like that?

I think it'd firm up residual values...

Bill

gsterns · March 2001

I am planning to buy a 2001 tahoe within the week.The salesman and I have both arrived at the invoice price,but I have a question.The last step he took to get to this price was to offer me a $1000 rebate for being the original owner of another car,a suburban,that we bought from them.Does this mean I was paying $1000 over invoice before?Also, is there some way to find out what,if any, dealer incentives are being run right now? Should I be content to be at invoice ,or keep dealing?

afk_x · March 2001

A customer loyalty rebate, which GM is fond of doing right now.

1000 over on a Suburban sounds OK to me but I am sure you could do better.

Feel free to shop a couple dealerships if you don't think the price is right. Still do give your original salesperson a shot to match the deal.

rroyce10 · March 2001

......There is a customer loyalty bonus.....and it looks like you were able to take advantage of it....

I hope this helps

Terry.

willimjo · March 2001

I'm sure there are regional influences on market price, but in the greater Chicagoland area you can get Tahoe's for $100-200 over invoice quite easily. If there are few Chevrolet dealers in your area (is there such an area in the US?), market price may be a bit higher.

With a $1000 rebate, I'd be shooting for $700-1000 under invoice.

andyis24 · March 2001

I'm thinking about trading in my teal '92 Toyota Corolla LE as part of a new car deal. The Corolla has 94000 miles, A/C, sunroof, power windows/locks, cruise control, and AM/FM/cassette player. The car looks in good condition (paint, interior, etc), though there are a few problems upon closer inspection:

1. Broken side mirror
2. There's a leak somewhere that lets water into the passenger side floor area. We've tried to get it fixed, but it didn't stay fixed for long. The floor on that side has been damp on and off for the last year or so (Washington State gets a lot of rain).
3. The power windows don't work very well, squeaking/grinding when they open or close.
4. The car has various rattles and squeaks, though none of them seem unusual for a 10-year old car.
5. The idle is rough, and the brakes are somewhat mushy (might need some brake work).

One dealer looked at it, but I was surprised at how poor his inspection was. I could have evaluated a used car better than he did. It was almost as if he didn't really care about anything other than the basic specs of the car and its mileage. This was after we'd negotiated a deal on the new car.

I wasn't sure if I should tell him the problems with the car, since he didn't even bother to ask. He offered $1600, which I declined.

Any feedback? What is a fair trade-in price for the car? I know I could get more by selling it privately, but I'm willing to take a loss in order to avoid the hassle.

~Andy

isellhondas · March 2001

That dealer may have know more than you think he knew about your car. he was also planning to wholesale it and knew it would probably bring around 2000.00 from a wholesaler.

And, for crying out loud...get your brakes checked!

audia8q · March 2001

IsellH is right...its a wholesale unit and the year, model, miles and if it runs is all that is important. The stuff you mentioned dosnt mean anything in a wholesale dealer transaction...

If the dealer thinks the car would bring $2000 at dealer auction he must spend $100 prep and delivery to the action, then $250 sale fee. if he booked it in at $1600 + 300 fees = 1900. Leaving the dealer with $100 sale profit...

Hope this helped in explaining how a dealer arrives at a wholesale price on a trade like yours.

Rich

glenn54 · March 2001

I have been attempting to order a Tacoma 4x4 4cyl extra cab (mystic gold) since February. According to the dealership, there first attempt (Feb.)at doing a swap for one at the Manufactor was rejected because the option package I selected would have caused the manufact. to make too many changes at this late point on the assembly line. The dealership is suppose to be attempting an order again on the first week of April, figuring that newer ones first going into assembly will be easier to accommodate my option selections. My option package selected includes SR5,power package, VIP security, bed liner,tonneau,bucket seats, 16" A wheels. In my area (Maryland/DC/a.) most are equipped with cruise control and tow hitches and most lack the VIP security system. Are Tacoma's generally this hard to order with select options or is the dealer stringing me along hoping I'll eventually settle for what available. I would greatly apreciate a rundown on just how this whole ordering bussiness works so that I can get a good understading of what's going on. Thanks in advance.

rroyce10 · March 2001

...........All do respect....I don't know of to many dealership's that margin their trades in's...

Terry.

rroyce10 · March 2001

.......Especially now....Tacoma's are plentiful...and 4x4's are all over.....If I was you --- I would be checking out some other dealer's ...and .. getting your dealer to - dealer trade-... He may be correct on the option package....but, the best way to find out --- Is to put him to the test......

I could be incorrect......But I think you are being stalled....

I hope this help's

Terry.

audia8q · March 2001

common practice here in new england...but as you know some areas do things differently. maybe that is in part why our used car values are also lower than many regions.

Rich

noobie1 · March 2001

Hello to all. Much appreciation to everyone who contributes here. I've learned a great deal (sic) in recent weeks. Now it only remains to get one.

Please excuse this swerve in direction, but I expect to order an '01' Silverado/Sierra soon and my big question is this: For the truck equipped with my preferences I've seen reported in other threads delivery times as long as six months. What happens to the deal made if the TPW date isn't established before the next model year begins production? When fleet managers are asked this I get conflicting answers. One says price is guaranteed, another says no way, "Re-Order", "New Price". Is there some established procedure? What are the alternatives? Thanks.

Dave

alexbay · March 2001

GM truck production ends 4/6/01
Duramax production ended 3/2/01
2002 production starts 6/18/01
Go to www.wheels.com
They have all the info you need.

noobie1 · March 2001

Thanks for the tip alexbay. But the way I read Wheels.com, these are the order cutoff dates, not production cutoff dates. At any rate, with a stated lead time of 8 -10 weeks it looks like a tight squeeze for an '01'. Further, there's still the question about normal procedures for this situation at dealerships. Thanks again.

- Dave

rroyce10 · March 2001

.....Thank's for the info.....

Terry.

thel · March 2001

God hears all of them, but sometimes the answer is no. The point is, it doesn't hurt to ask.

Prevailing wisdom seems to be that bringing up holdback would be about as good an idea as asking God for booze and hookers.

escargo · March 2001

I've been looking for a new Mercedes CLK 430 cabriolet. All the dealers here in the Houston area say the wait on a new one may be two years or more. But they all seem to have lots of 01 model CLK's on the lot, most with less than 100 miles on them, for sale as used cars at well over sticker price of the new ones. What's the deal? If new ones are so hard to get, how do they seem to have an endless supply of "used" ones with no mileage? I don't mind waiting for one and paying sticker price, but should I look to a dealer in a smaller market who may not yet have sold his allotment of these cars so far out into the future?

After recently finding out that Mercedes will be making the CLK 55 in a cabriolet model, I'd like to order one of them. Instead of getting on the local dealership's waiting list, would I be better off to check elsewhere? If so, where? Is it true that Mercedes dealers are forbidden from selling cars to customers out of their region? If so, does this apply to used cars as well as new ones? I'm confused and seem to always get the runaround and conflicting stories from the local dealers. Any help would be appreciated.

mvargo1 · March 2001

Mercedes will cut a dealers allocation if he sells a CLK for more than sticker. However current market value is well in excess of sticker price. So if a dealer gets a CLK that was not pre ordered, or that the order was canceled for; he can sell it to his wife or son or dog and then sell it as a used car for as much as possible. Unfortunatly if you want to drive a CLK right now you have to pay what the market will currently support.

rroyce10 · March 2001

....... The best way to purchase a MB .... is to shop ----- Benz dealers are the same as any other.....some have some inventory ----- and some have lot's of inventory

I have a friend in New Orleans...who was trying to purchase a CLK like mine, and he couldn't get any deal ..you know the routine..over sticker, hard to get, nobody has them..etc, ---- Well, after a few short times on the Net...he found some in Minnosota...and guess what --- they had 3 of them on the ground ....and with a nice 5% discount -- they were more than happy to ship it to him....

It's like the E320's....most dealers...if you take the time and shop --- will be than happy to discount them 7-9%..and pay for the shipping...because, the new ones are coming out......See, If I had my way...I just would have found him one at the auction -- and saved him another $10,000+ .......the story, about losing allocation in the states...is just that ..a story

I hope this helps....

Terry.

escargo · March 2001

Thanks for the response. Any suggestions on particular areas/dealers where I should look? You mentioned Minnesota - could it be that these far north dealers sell fewer convertible type cars in the cold climate and therefore have shorter waiting times? Or would it be a small town dealer who doesn't sell as many high-end cars? I've checked the MB website and there are hundreds of dealers listed nationwide, so it would help if there were some way to narrow the search before starting to call around. It seems most of the large metro dealers in the south are all quoting multi-year waiting lists for the CLK cab (although the CLK 320 cab is somewhat easier to get, but I'd like the 430 or the 55 AMG model). Also, is there any truth to what some dealers have told me about not being allowed to sell to buyers living outside their market territory?

rroyce10 · March 2001

......I can't tell you much about the "55".... They may try to hold out for "all the money".....but who know's..

But the best thing to do, is just go to the Benz site.....and find the dealers that are in Indiana, Wisconsin, PA, ..etc...most have toll free numbers..or when you call..ask them for one...

My friend spent about $20 bucks in long distance... and saved himself about $4,000 and got the vehicle he wanted....that's not a bad deal....But, to answer your question about-- out of territory...I have found Benz's in Boulder..Kansas city..Waycroft ...etc... --- and when they have to sell them ....they are like any other vehicle --- they will cut them from the herd...

Terry.

mvargo1 · April 2001

MB dealers who sell to customers outside their zone can lose both holback and allocation. So you are not likely to get a real good deal on a new Benz outside the area you live in as the dealer will have to make a ton of money to make up for what he is going to lose. Preowned on the other hand you can buy anywhere.

One thing to try might be other highline delaerships in your area. Call the local BMW, Jag, Infiniti, or Lexus dealer and see if they have any real low milage trade-ins that retain most of the original factory warrenty.

rroyce10 · April 2001

.......All do respect..and I'm not trying to be smart here.. ---- but, I have bought Benz's in Pittsburg and had them shipped to Atlanta....Richmond, and had them flatbedded to Coral Springs....I have purchased Mercedes in Little Rock ...and shipped to Gainsville....not including the others I have found, in the above post....

This "out of zone" stuff...is just what it means.....Stuff ---

Terry.

raybear · April 2001

M-B does track its dealers to see where they are selling cars. There seems to be a limited amount of tolerance for selling out of the zone. They have gotten more restrictive in recent years.

Of course, since we're talking about a CLK 430 Cabrio, just go on the local dealer's waiting list if you really want the car. If you look real hard you'll either find a dealer who has one coming sooner--or is willing to lie about it.

audia8q · April 2001

The confusion here is kinda simple..MB dealers, as you know, can sell to anyone, anywhere. The slight problem comes into play if allocation is a problem...The MB cars sold out of the dealers AMA do not count towards allocation or towards any incentives which have qualifiers...MB slipped this in a few years ago as did some others.

Rich

rroyce10 · April 2001

....... Hi Rich, how's your day going...?

That's true....if it's a hard to get...or the allocation supply will hold through out the year..... The CLK's Cabrio's will be one of those type vehicles .... thats for sure.

But, as rule.....most of them, will deal -- across lines - because of the the floor plan expense on the - Not so hard to get- ......

Terry.

johnkaren · April 2001

I would like some help in finding out how to pick the best WV service department/dealer in my area. I live in Southern Calif. and have several dealers in my area. I would like to deal with the dealer who has the best service department, just in case I need to use that department. If you can help I would sure be thankful. Local dealers West Covina, La Puente, Ontario, Pasadena, Brea.

Thanks in advance
jk

ejones31 · April 2001

I have a big problem in1999 Ipurchased a new 2000 Mazda 626LX 4Cyl. I really hate the car I want to trade for something else. Please be kind to me when I tell everyone how much I own $19700 I purchase it for $18900 with 4000 negitive equity. the Mazda trade in value is $11900. Please tell me how I can get out of this deal with alot of out of pocket money.

isellhondas · April 2001

Your situation happens quite a bit. You are "upside down" in a car you do not like.

And you have a 4000.00 problem. Without a bunch of cash, you are out of luck. It's possible to roll some or perhaps all of this negitive equity into another car. Doing this is foolish in my opinion for then, you would be REALLY buried!

Advise...try to like your car.

tonkadave · April 2001

Hi, I recently ordered a jeep and I have been trying to get the Vehicle Order Number(VON) from my Dealer so I can track its progress through Chrysler.. For some reason the dealer says he doesnt have the VON. When I call Chrysler, they say the dealer gets the VON as soon as the order is placed. Anyone know anything about this or is my dealer just stalling the order for some reason?

timadams · April 2001

Correction, isell, ejones has an $8,000 problem! If his figures are right, he owes almost $20,000 but it is only worth $12,000.

Ejones, the best thing would be to keep the car for several more years and make any extra payments you can possibly afford to get your debt down. A possibility to get more out of it would be to sell it yourself, but you still won't get near what you owe on it. Please try to learn something from this...put a sizeable down payment down on your next car and certainly don't borrow more than the car's trade-in value.

isellhondas · April 2001

Yeah, I re-read that post and you are correct. It sounds like ejones rolled negative equity into the Mazda when it was purchased.

I always wonder why people do that. They'll buy a car with little or nothing down, sometimes rolling negative equity. A year later, they decide that they no longer like that car and want something different.

Worse yet, many times, they want to "downsize" and have lower payments at the same time!!

Of course, I've done lots of foolish things too...

leomort · April 2001

I still have to take out car payments for 5 years on the new car I would like to get. I guess I was being a typical American when buying cars. After hanging out here for awhile, I've started to reconsider things

Leo

fladriver · April 2001

It will depreciate less now that it's 1-2 years old. The value of a new car drops like a rock in the beginning, but later on it levels off. That depreciation, plus the fact that when you finance all the sales tax and fees get added to your loan, means you are probably better off holding on to your car for now.

john1726 · April 2001

The dealer does get the VON number as soon as the order is placed. Maybe if the order is placed late at night, he may have to wait until the next day. Sounds like the order has not been placed for some reason. I would try talking to the sales manger and finding out the real story.

rworrell · April 2001

OK, I have a question for a car dealer: what guidelines do you have for test drives? More specifically, what do you expect when you send someone out on a test drive?

For example, I'll read posts where people say "...after a 45-minute test drive, I knew I had to have the car." Are they serious? I don't think I've ever taken a car out for more than 10-15 minutes. Yet, when the salesman sends us out he'll sometimes make a joke like, "Remember, we close at 6:00" (when it's 4:30). How long do you expect a test drive to take? Does it differ if the driver is out alone or if you come along? What about if it's the 2nd or 3rd time because the buyer is getting close to closing the deal? How hard do you expect a car to be driven? I mean, I like sporty cars, but I'm hesitant to really throw the car around on a test drive, especially if there's a salesman stuffed in the back. Inquiring minds want to know...

kimmers71 · April 2001

I bought a car last weekend, don't have it yet as it will take a few weeks to get here, and traded in my car. Well, I now have someone who may buy the car from me. Can I sell it and tell the dealer that there is no longer a trade-in? (I was initially trying to sell it myself without any luck.)

Just wondering if anyone else has done this. I, of course, would give the dealership a "heads up" on what I was doing though.

Thanks!

rworrell · April 2001

Depending on your relationship with the dealer and the tax laws in your state, you might be able to have the dealer do all the paperwork on the sale of your old car and write it up as a trade-in. Apparently, this is legal for them to do and it will save you a bunch of money on your sales tax because you only pay sales tax on the difference between your trade-in and your new car. So, buy a new car for $20,000 and do the sale of the old car yourself--you owe taxes on $20K. Sell your old car for $12,000 and have the dealer do the paperwork--you only owe taxes on $8K. Some dealers will charge you a few bucks to do the paperwork, but it's worth looking into. Could save some money for you.

im_brentwood · April 2001

Yup...

RW beat me to it. I'd see if youcan use it as a "pass-through" and get the tax advantage to boot!

It does pay to ask!

Bill

kimmers71 · April 2001

So what you're saying is even though the contract is written up to include my trade, I could still sell it on my own and then we would rewrite the contract?

And I figured out the difference in tax...$75.

im_brentwood · April 2001

Well,

It was a thought. $75 it might not be worth the aggravation... you never know. I doubt the dealer will have a problem with it.

I'd ask the dealer if you can do it, then ask the person buying your car. If it's a late model, the dealer can also offer financing, warranties, etc.

OTOH, some dealers wont sell a used car they havent inspected....

Bill

leomort · April 2001

I recently heard a car dealership ad on the radio about a big sale this month. Claim a minimum trade of $3,000 on any car, just drag, tow, or drive it in. What's the catch? Are their cars marked up by 3 grand? Is there some dealer rebate unknown to the customer. I'm a little hesitant to go these type of dealerships. would this be considered on of those "screamer ads"?

Leo

kimmers71 · April 2001

Chances are the $3000 trade-in is only limited to vehicles from years 92-98, not new vehicles. (these are the years I've seen advertised when they run these specials) Also, don't be surprised if they have the vehicles marked up and don't expect to get much of a deal. But you never know, you won't gain anything if you don't at least try!

audia8q · April 2001

It's a gimmick...one that works. Often we have customers who only seem to worry about "how much for the trade" and don't look at the other numbers....so all a dealer has to do is mark up the cars $3000...

This type of ad is usually a sign to avoid the dealership.

Rich

im_brentwood · April 2001

Leo,

Pass. You'll see $2,995 "Trade Allowance margin" stickers on every car on their lot.

Even buying from a store like that simply gives those clowns positive reinforcement.

Bill

ljj2 · April 2001

Let's say I am negotiating a new car deal and I have my own financing or buy by cash. Salesmen usually ask to initial or sign offers. As I understand that should be something like a buyer's order.

At what point my signature becomes legally binding? Remember, that I am not talking about loan/lease contract.

hondobondo · April 2001

Buyer's orders: legal tricanery invented by car dealers to stiff the car buying public...

1)By breaking up the deal, tiring the deal to get the buyer's legally binding agreement to PURCHASE the car after ONLY one piece of the transaction: the price of the vehicle - has been agreed to.

2)By filling the order with whatever undesirable lemon that fits the vehicle description on the buyer's order that happens to be on the lot.

A few simple tactics to even the playing field.

If engaging in face-to-face negotiations (by far the worst way for most if not everyone in negotiating with a car dealer in the age of email and faxes)

DON'T make offers through buyer's orders or any SIGNED agreement. Make offers in the only way that the dealer will initially commit to an offer - verbally. If the car sales rep says he needs your signature before "submitting" the deal, understand the dealer is saying that he EXPECTS to take you for a sucker.

The dealer knows that when he makes a verbal offer, like the proverbial "low-ball," through an unauthorized agent, his offer has utterly no legal binding.

Understand negotiations are all about EXPECTATIONS.

If you're dumb enough to play this game -patiently skewed in favor of the dealer, overcoming this perfectly reasonable expectation of the dealer to obtain the same outcome when a mutually beneficial business agreement is the expectation of both sides

- is a contradiction in terms.

Counter an unenforceable offer with an unenforceable counter-offer.

And after coming to an agreement on price,

DON'T sign the buyer's order AS WRITTEN.

Amend it by adding the simple phrases

1)contingent upon the vehicle passing my final inspection to be signified by me in the act of driving the vehicle off the lot.

2) contingent upon my approval of all other aspects of the financial transaction to be signified by me in the act of driving the vehicle off the lot.

If the dealer is not amenable to this, understand only one party can be in control of the transaction.

If you want it to be you, walk.

At the point short of driving the car off the lot, if FOR ANY REASON the deal and/OR car does not measure up to your satisfaction, you now have the option of walking without losing your down payment, credit rating, etc, or the dealer, should he be so inclined, having legal recourse.

mvargo1 · April 2001

It is actually much simpler than all that. The reason to have you initial things written on a worksheet is simply a psychological test to see if you really want to buy the car. You are not committed to anything untill you sign the actual finance or lease contract and/or the CO or title.

ljj2 · April 2001

What is CO?
And when do you sign a title? Or you mean your trade-in title?

Any Questions for a Car Dealer?

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