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Chrysler Town and Country EX/LX/LXi/Limited
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Out of topic - are you really in Kazakhstan? I stationed there for one summer when in military - west of lake Balhash.
We have finally narrowed our new van choices to the Town and Country. I've really learned alot from reading this board. Now I need to learn about how to get the best deal, as it's been 8 years since I've purchased a new van. Cgaydos...you mentioned finding a great deal in SF area...where was your dealer? Any negotiating tips? I can be emailed at darnbusy@aol.com
Thanks!
I am concerned about reliability of the vehicles and have found something curious about the two models:
In both the Edmunds Town Hall discussions and the MSN Consumer reviews, I have found a few complaints of serious problems with the Grand Caravan EX and ES models within the first 6 months of ownership (transmission, brakes, leaking oil), but no serious complaints about the Town & Country for that same timeframe (complaints usually concern wind noise, water build-up in trim, door gaskets hanging out, etc).
Why the discrepancy? The vehicles appear to be identical (except for the front grille and the lack of fake woodgrain in the GC). Does the factory from which they came make a difference? Are Chrysler customers less likely to complain in a town hall forum? Have I just missed the major T&C problems when I did my searches?
What does this mean?
CarsDirect.com is currently listing T&C Ltd's at $1900 below invoice in SF Bay, but this price includes the $2000 rebate. The real price is thus $100 over invoice. Figure you should be able to beat CarsDirect on a T&C by at least $1000, possibly more. Also, get all local bay area papers this Friday and see what discounts are being offered.
Never been to Kazakhstan, myself. As far as I've been able to ascertain, my ancestors may have been from that region (adopted you know). What's it like?
mgsa: We just traded a '98 Caravan SE with 60K miles. The battery died at 52K miles (not the van's fault), and the sliding door latch trim bezels had a habit of working loose. Other than that, it was pretty much flawless. It was replaced last Monday by a 2001 T&C EX. On the same day, we trade my '95 Stratus ES V6 in for a Sebring LXi coupe.
Here's a speculative thought: The difference in bitching volume may be a reflection of the level of customer service one receives at a Dodge lot versus a Chrysler lot. Though both of our Dodge's were strong, reliable performers, we never once got any real satisfaction from Dodge service, regardless of the dealership. It's a little too early to comment on Chrysler service, but the sales experience was DRAMATICALLY different than any Dodge dealership I've been to.
So, while the vans are pretty much identical, perhaps the Chrysler customers are getting the problems solved, instead of prolonged. It's a stretch, I know, but...
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/06/07/technology/07HOWW.html?searchpv=nytToday
Kazakhstan - where I was - it was a flat desert with nearest settelment 2 days of driving away, camels and a whole lot of scorpions.
I have to report I successfully programmed the remote buttons. Thank you and also thanks to G Miller who e-mailed me. I have ordered the Manual from DC - $10.60 including postage. Good experience with the customer service - the reps even have their own extensions and follow the cases through.
The van is great and my wife is having a blast (after 1990 Mitsu Eclipse). The only problem is the garage has shrunk it seems (two big cars)...
Oh,well..
Thanks again!
I called Chrysler customer service # and was told that I could only get one integrated child seat for leather. It was only available in the left bucket seat, and there are "right" and "left" seats which are not interchangeable. So if I ordered another seat I would end up with two "left" seats. This sounds kind of ridiculous. Does anyone have a clue?
Regarding the cross bar noise. I've notice a small noise, more like to annoying tone from a musical instrument when I'm going between 50-65mph. I don't hear it when the radio is on. I would presume that I don't have the older cross bars that make a "howling noise".
Glad it worked. I love not having a remote to deal with.
Mrs. sp01 is ecstatic. The kids watched Scooby Doo on the way home from school yesterday.
Like they really needed more TV time..
On the other hand. The cargo area molded rubber tray is on the right track as it covers the entire trunk area and has lip around it.
I see you can get these for $1150 on the internet, but then you have to arrange installation. I've installed my own car stereos in the past, but something about the idea of personally cutting into the roof fabric of my new minivan makes me hesistant.
When I extract it from the purchase pool, it looks like we paid about $1350-$1400 installed. It comes in its own center console (so we now have two) with two sets of wireless headphones. The installation, unless I'm seeing things, appears to require relocation of the forward dome light as well. I'm with you: I've installed a few stereos and fog lamps in my time, but NO WAY would I attempt this particular job!
www.weathertech.com
www.griotsgarage.co
www.www.herringtoncatalog.com
(1) An AWD LXi with the following options:
29U package
Trailer Towing Package
Heated Front Seats
4-Disc CD Player
Side Air Bags
Roof Rack
CarsDirect Price $31,588 after rebates
(2) or a Limited AWD
Trailer tow prep
Heated seats
4-Disc CD Player
CarsDirect Price $33,393 after rebates
My questions are as follows:
(A) We have a 20 month old and 2 dogs (one of which sheds a lot. I am worried about the suede in the Limited. Does anyone have the Limited and have young kids? Should I get the LXi just beacause of the full leather vs. the suede? Can you get a Limited in full leather?
(B) I like the idea of a full bench seat as in the Limited. However, if I bring the two lab mixes along for a trip, can you fold the seat forward I know it is not a "magic seat", But I am wondering if it folds forward and secures like the spilt seat in the LXi. I know that you can get the split seat in the limited, but if it folds forward and creates enough room for luggage and two 60lb dogs, then I would go with the full bench seat.
(C) My wife really wants to get the video unit, does anyone think that I could get it installed for $1,400 or less? If not, what do you think about after market systems, such as the Rosen system?
(D) I had ordered a car from the Dealership from hell here in MA. After 6 weeks+ of waiting, and very little contact by the salesman, I cancelled the order. The manager screamed at me repeatedly, and suddenly my car appeared. I don't appreciate getting screamed at by folks that I am about to give a $35,000 sale from, so I walked away (with my deposit credited -- dealer should learn that you shouldn't forge the customers signature on the agreement, even if the customer later signs it). Overall, it was a most unpleasant experience. Does anyone know a good Chrysler dealer in MA? I would appreciate being dealth with in a fair and polite environment. If not, I guess I'll go the Carsdirect route. It may not be the absolute cheapest, but it is still a very good deal (better than I did at the previous dealer) and it is hassle free),
Thanks for your advice. Sorry for the long post, but I am down to the last few final decisions.
Under different criteria I recently bought the Limited FWD over the LXi FWD.
A) As far as I know, you cannot get the Limited with the full leather. However, I don't think that the "suede" is real suede leather. Note the trademark next to the name in the brochures. I have a dog that sheds but he only stays on the floor, never on the seats.
The rear seat folds down and locks in place. You can also secure the rear seat in a more foward position, thus creating additional luggage space.
C) Can't help you on this item.
D) I bought from a dealer in Ansonia, CT; not quite MA but close. Had a very good experience and feel I got a good deal.
We wound up getting the LXI since I really couldn't justify the additional dollars (our deals were about $1800 apart too) for the Ltd.
The Ltd, as you probably know, gains you as standard equipment stuff thats optional on the LXI. I couldn't see paying $1800 for the standard load leveling suspension (which I wanted, but couldn't find on an LXI in my area), a body colored roof rack, auto-on headlights, auto-dimming mirror, seat memory, and the partial seude seats.
You might want the load leveling suspension of the Ltd with the two dogs (I can't recall if the load leveling is included in the trailer-tow package - if it is you're back to comparing virtually similar vehicles, with the Ltd costing more for a couple of additional features).
The Ltd only has the partial seude seats. You should be able to clean dog hair off of it with a high quality lint brush (not the 'masking tape' type) that you could keep in the car. I believe the full bench only slides fore-and-aft and folds in half. Only the split bench does the fold/tumble thing.
I agree that the middle position of the split bench isn't the most comfortable, but its nothing a small pillow (say airline sized) wouldn't cure. Personally, I think you give up a lot of flexibility with the full bench. With the split bench you could fold.tumble one and take the other out. You'd have ample room for dogs, luggage and could carry an additional person once you reach a destination
We wound up getting the LXI since I really couldn't justify the additional dollars (our deals were about $1800 apart too) for the Ltd.
The Ltd, as you probably know, gains you as standard equipment stuff thats optional on the LXI. I couldn't see paying $1800 for the standard load leveling suspension (which I wanted, but couldn't find on an LXI in my area), a body colored roof rack, auto-on headlights, auto-dimming mirror, seat memory, and the partial seude seats.
You might want the load leveling suspension of the Ltd with the two dogs (I can't recall if the load leveling is included in the trailer-tow package - if it is ÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿ
I just bought a T+C Limited in MA with the Split Bench. It took 2 months to get!!!
Let me know where in MA!!
Sincerely
Gerry
I visited Central on Route 1 in Norwood. The sales person was giving me BS about can't make any profit with the EX and only getting the min. $50.00 hold backs from Chrysler. I walked out of there very quickly.
We went through the same debate on AWD models in December. We ended up getting the same LXi model as you--cost was less of an issue than the ease of removing the two split bench seats (which were not available to us on the LTD at the time) vs. the big bench. My wife, a petite but strong person, can do the former.
We have two small children (3.5 and 1.5yrs)and enjoy the flexibility of moving them around the vehicle to accomodate our hauling needs. I also like the ability to haul long items by removing both set of seats on one side.
I did think that the suede seats were more comfortable initially, but over the 6 months the other type leather softened up just fine. I would not consider anything else with young children.
I haven't missed any of the few additional luxo items found on the Ltd. The AWD is outstanding. Either way you will get a fine vehicle.
The Thules attach via four sets of two metal squeeze plates that are screw-bolted tight around the rack. Though initial setup was time consuming, the nice part is that the same plate configurations stay with the box after you remove it (if you remove it), thus attaching the box in the future will go pretty quick.
The box holds onto the rack extremely tightly and Thule boxes are high quality--definately a step above the much hyped Yakima boxes. The only negative is that we experienced occasional whining wind noises when turning between 20-25 mph.
looked at every van and suv -- value, reliability and looks were my main criteria. decided on the TC because didn't want to hassle with Ody salesmen. held out until the EX came -- but still fell in love with the way the LTD came. it was between a fully loaded LXi or a LTD. Decided on the LTD because dealer had the silver i wanted.
why else?
the price difference came down to very little on a monthly basis.
i like having the extra features. memory seat, audio controls on steering wheel, and all the other gizmos that came with the LTD.
i hated how the middle third row felt on my 'cushions' -- especially how the joints jam up against me.
i needed the extra space created by the bench sliding forward. i am the designated airport driver in my family, and i need both the seats and the cargo space.
no kids, but dogs. the rear bench stays in my living room ( i do wish for a fold down seat ). i bought a pet barrier and (since shepherds are famous for shedding) threw in those U-Haul moving rugs (clean one of-course) to cover the cargo space. i fold down the middle captain seats -- and I thought about buying seat covers to protect them from my dogs. but with the middle captain seats fully folded down, there's limited exposure to the dogs.
it's a tough decision. i went back and forth between the two trims for days... in the end, i went with a philosophy that served me well -- get the top of the line -- it does not leave you wanting more!
anything I should worry about ... we previously had a 1995 ford Windstar and ended up spending massive money on new transmission, new engine, new oil pump to name a few! We eventually found out that Ford recalled most 1995 engines and don't want to run into the same problem here.
Obviously, all cars have problems (toyotas and hondas included). But I didn't know if 1998 Town & Country LXI was a bad year similiar to the 1995 Windstar year.
any and all comments are appreciated.
Has anyone noticed a shudder at speeds over 60mph, a slight vibration? The car has plenty of power, and handles great (no safety concern). But over 60, I felt a little rumble, and hoped it would go away, but it seems to come and go when the car goes over 60.
Other than that, this is a great vehicle.
What have other people seen out there that have this MiniVan? Im very disapointed with it!!
-gerry
We have a 99 GC SE with 3.3L and the OVERALL average for 28,364 miles in 27 months is 23.4 MPG. (Van had 4 miles when bought. Now has 28,368 and we have put 1208.3 gallons of gas into it).
When we have topped off before and after a few trips to check the accuracy of trip computer, the mileage was the same with calculator as with Trip Computer. 4 round trips to Disneyland of approximately 1400 miles have averaged 27.1, 27.0, 26.0 and 27.5 respectively. It rained during much of trip #3 which lowered the mileage.
I do not drive fast...set the Cruise at 65 to 68 MPG. (It maintains the speed set but I vary it every 100 miles or so). Mileage is always higher enroute to Disneyland (about 29.0 MPG going) than the return portion.
The lowest gas mileage was on one refill for the last 2 weeks of January this year when the weather was quite cold and we got only 16.1 MPG with very little highway driving.
, I'm happy with this..
I'm interested in buying an AWD T&C Limited. I live in New Jersey. My local dealer seems like a weasel (and has for years!) so I'd like to know if anyone has had positive experiences with NJ dealers. I'm willing to travel just about anywhere in the state for a reputable dealer and a fair price.
Thanks!!!
Regards,
Chloe
I just posted the previous message about NJ dealers, and forgot to ask my most important question -- what are the going prices for a fully loaded all-wheel drive Limited T&C? I'm interested in all the options, including the video entertainment system. (Can you get a DVD system or is it a VCR system?)
Thanks again for your help!
Regards,
Chloe
As a starting point, price the car for your zip code at Carsdirect.com. Figure you can beat that price by 5%.
If you want to throw the entertainment system in to the deal you can do even better. They have a lot of profit in this system. List is $1400 plus installation. Some dealers quote $2k for the system, installed. However, installation is less than 2 hours, and these systems are being advertised on the net by many Dodge/Chrysler dealers for as low as $1150 (no sales tax). So the dealer should be willing to sell the system for $1400 installed if it's part of a new car sale.
And, no DVD. Just VCP. The Chrysler site gives details. It's very nice in that they give you another center console, just like the regular one, that can be removed. However, unlike the regular console you have to decide whether you want the VCP console to be in the front or second row, and once you decide that is the only place it will work. Most choose the second row. If you want the kids to watch TV while the car is turned off you'll have to ask the installers to also rewire the electrical so that the always-on power also goes to the second row console.