Any Questions for a Car Dealer?

audia8q · February 2001

Sorry to hear who the source is...generally they are pretty good.
A letter certainy can't hurt. I would make sure it's addressed to somebody specific and I would send it either overnight (signature reguired) or return receipt...I also would call every couple of days and ask for the supervisors, boss...
if being reasonable dosnt work, being a big pain in the A** can sometimes do the trick.

Of course, if they are being held up on the lost title, then they could be at the mercy of the state..waiting for the duplicate. That isnt your fault.

Rich

drugcounselor · February 2001

I am planning on buying a new car in the next few weeks and I am wondering if I should do any repairs to my trade-in ( replace muffler, replace shocks, fix cracked windshield ) before I bring it in? Worth it cost wise? I know the best way to go is to sell on open market, but too much hassle. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

williamshim · February 2001

I'm planning to trade in my car soon. Here is some detail. 1998 Honda Accord EX V6. Color: Black Cherry, about 53500 miles, good to excellent condition, (Need to wash a coffee stain on a carpet.) Clean title, Philly area. I'm thinking $14000 to $16000 would do reasonable. What do you guys think?

fatjuan · February 2001

I see the finance rates/rebates, following that is dealer incentives.
Can we use this # to negotiate a better deal?

williamshim · February 2001

Hello,

I have question on above subject. How much of above incentive usually get passed to the customer? I asked quote from several local dealers for BMW Z 3.0 which currently has $3,000 such incentive however, none of the quote reflected the incentive. One dealer quote me straight MSRP!? and one other dealer quote me $1,000 off of MSRP. I didn't tell them that I know about this incentive but this makes me question their business practice....
Thanks.

ccotenj · February 2001

why does it make you question their business practice? i'm curious.

the incentive doesn't belong to the consumer... it belongs to the dealer...

-Chris

williamshim · February 2001

One of the reason I posted the note was to find out what is the standard business practice on dealer incentive. If it's standard business practice to not pass those incentive, then like you posted, I have no problem with that, however, I would think that most dealers would pass that incentive to buyers?

williamshim · February 2001

Looks like I never directly answered your question. First dealer quoted me $3,600 off MSRP, basically passing all the incentive plus $600 off. This made me think that passing the incentive to the buyer was the "standard business" practice and when I received those other quotes....well you know the story... I guess that dealer which passed the incentive is the "exception" rather than norm...

ccotenj · February 2001

ok, now i understand what you meant.

i think it's completely up to the dealer and the type of car, from what i've been able to figure out from the various dealer posts...

it all comes down to, how bad does the dealer want to move that car on that day, and how bad to you want to buy that car on that day.... come to think of it, that kinda describes the whole buyer/seller relationship...

-Chris

im_brentwood · February 2001

It depends on the dealer.

RIght now BMW Put "trunk money" on the Z3s for a simple reason. They do not sell very well at all in the wintertime, particularly in northern (NJ) markets.

However, come March or April, and those incentives and discounts are usually gone.

It's the dealer's discretion to pass the cash along, many do as it allows them to offer a substantial discount without losing money on the cars.

Bill

rroyce10 · February 2001

The trade in money ( real $ ) on your Honda is a good guess from you..If ..you have new tires, and like you said it is good to excellent, you are probabley looking more towards the $15,000 to $16,000 range..( if it needs nothing ) and the miles dont help, but it is a Honda V6.
On your Z3 hunt, I'm sure ..with a little looking, you will find a dealer that will split the incentive $ with you..meaning invoice minus $1,000 or more. Also the BMW dealer is on a 'turn and earn' basis..so what he can sell today, will return to him when he really needs it.
Good luck.
Terry.

levine90 · February 2001

Hi, guys - some people in another thread by the same name as my title suggested I head over here, so here I am. I've got a question for you veteran car dealers:

I'm heading to college in the fall and my current 88 Ford Tempo will not be able to handle the 5 hour commute which I will be making at least 10 times a year. My mom, a loyal Toyota customer since the early 80's, is insistent that I also get a Toyota due to their extremely high reliability. She also wants to buy a new car for the warranty. She, as well as I, will do pretty much anything to guarentee the reliability of this car for the four years I am at school - it is our #1 priority, concern, etc. Given our price range and all of the above requirements, only one car fits the bill: a Toyota Echo, and a relatively stripped down one at that.

Personally, I think we can do better. I think that I could score a 98-99 Corolla, earlier year Camry, etc. for $8-10k instead of the $11-12k required for this Echo, and put the extra money in the bank for any possible future breakdowns, or into an extended service plan or something like that. My mom, however, is not keen whatsoever on this idea, and seems to think that if it's not brand new the warranty isn't worth anything. I suppose in the end it's her call, as she'll be buying it for me for a joint Birthday/Graduation gift, but I come here in search of a possible argument that could convince her that a used Corolla or Camry would not be the money pit she seems to think it is.

Someone! Anyone! Save me from the perils of a 2 door manual Echo without power steering or a CD player! I need your help

Many thanks,
Peter Bourgon

rgrooms1 · February 2001

LOOKED FOR MONTHS..CANNOT FIND Z3 I WANT..I WOULD HAVE TO ORDER ONE..I CAME UP WITH A INVOICE PRICE OF $32,585 & A MSRP&TMV PRICE OF $36,195 .WHAT SHOULD I EXPECT TO PAY? AM I PAYING MORE TO ORDER?
ALSO, WOULD A FLEET DEALER BE ABLE TO GIVE ME A BETTER DEAL?

rroyce10 · February 2001

Well, I'm not sure what part of the country you live in but, it has been a rough winter for most... and alot of the dealers are sitting on large inventories of convertibles
I was at a "very" large auction on wednesday...and watched 100+ converibles run through..everything from the Z3's to Honda's from Volvo's to Benz"s ...and back again.

If you have a mind set for a particular color, accesory etc....You may have to order it and wait the 6 to 8+ wk's ( and you will pay more )....or, if you find one that is close to what you want....I'm sure you can get a much better deal ...If the dealer has it in stock I'm confident you can purchase it for that $33,500 to $33,900 figure or less..( $3000 dealer cash - so that should mean $32,500 to $32,900 ).... Remember, dealers are paying for that vehicle everyday it sit's there....also keep in mind the Z3 has kinda lost it's luster and competition is getting very tough ( and dealers know that )....so, if you can find one kinda close to what you want.... The dealer should be more than happy to accomodate those #'s
I hope this can help -- Good luck
Terry.

rroyce10 · February 2001

Peter.....I think there is no decision making process here. Even though the Echos are popular..and sporty looking etc, I would go with the Toyota corolla ...not because I dont like Echos..because I do, it's only because I have been in the auto Industry for 17 yrs....and the Toyotas have a track record...."a great track record" with their Corolla's.....so, sometimes it just best to purchase what you know will work.....there is a lot of 200,000 mile+ Corollas out there.

Hope this helps...
Terry.

OnYerLeft · February 2001

#65 - I'm not a car dealer so I guess you didn't ask me, but I'd like to offer my view. I like your plan. I bought my 92 Camry brand new and it now has 154k miles on it. It has been anything but a money pit! I did need a new alternator at about 130k, and a new clutch and exhaust, but both of those at about 151k. Otherwise, no extrordinary expenses. Have I been lucky? Perhaps, but based on reliability records and dozens of anecdotal reports in forums like this I think Toyotas make one of the most reliable used cars. Spending $8-$10k on a used Camry or Corrolla with the rest in the bank for possible repairs (I'd put it in a money market mutual fund) seems like a real safe bet to me.

Good luck.

shaq2kobe · February 2001

Do you still sell Hondas? and if so have you heard or seen any new info on the '02 Honda CR-V? or do you know where I can find any info on them?and where are you located?

rubicon52 · February 2001

I am also not a car dealer, but have owned 6 Toyotas over 15 years. If you're looking for a reliable car for the 4 years you're in school, I think you're on the right track in getting a 2 year old Corolla or Camry. Both are extremely reliable cars. The drive train warranty should last almost the entire time you're in school so the expensive stuff is covered. Unless the car has been abused by the original owner or you're unlucky, you are unlikely to have big problems in during the first 6 years of the car's life. I typically keep my Toyotas 5-8 years and my repair costs have been minimal. Also, Toyota has been making Camrys and Corollas for a long time so they might be more reliable than an Echo.

isellhondas · February 2001

Yes I still sell Hondas. You know as much as I do about the 2002 CRV's. Honda is always pretty tight lipped. I'm in Washington State.

shaq2kobe · February 2001

Thanx
The anticipation is killing me. If it is what everybody is expecting, I'll be buying as soon as it is released. If not I'll be in search for a 2000 white se.........

isellhondas · February 2001

I'm sure it will please the masses. Still there will be people who will ask..." Why did they screw it up"?

We sure love our 2000 SE !

kulshan · February 2001

I've been reading these forums for a while, and I'm hoping that the car salesmen that post here can answer a question for me. The salesmen I see here seem respectable and are embarrassed by some of the seemingly shady business practices some dealers and salesmen follow.

I'm curious about car spotting - that is, letting a customer drive off the lot with a car only to call them a few days later and ask for a few thousand dollars more because the financing fell through.

How often does this actually happen? And in what situations does it happen? What is the business manager checking when the application is run? What kind of quotes or offers is he getting on his computer screen? And what can change an approval to a demand for a few thousand dollars more?

Thanks in advance.

afk_x · February 2001

We don't do it EVER on purpose. In the year and a half that I have been at our store we have had it happen only once.

The Toyota dealer across the street does it on a regular basis.

isellpotiac · February 2001

But it is designed to stop a customer from shopping. A competitor does it all the time and i have heard horror stories. If finance is not what the F&I guy guesses than the payment goes up.

isellhondas · February 2001

Our store is squeaky clean in every respect. We make SURE the person is qualified before rolling a car. In almost six years I can't remember a customer having to bring a car back.

sounds like dirty business to me.

agt_cooper · February 2001

the easy way for the car buyer to avoid this problem is to obtain pre-approved financing prior to visiting the dealership.

However, the flip-side is that many people who get caught in this situation probably shouldn't be buying a new car anyway, based on their financial situation...but it's the American way -- buy buy buy!!!

audia8q · February 2001

We spot most everything. Here is how the process works...We must have 3 managers approve the spot delivery if we can't get an instant approval or decline from a lending source. Some take applications via the dealerships factory computer system and gives an instant answer...but most banks still take a couple hours.

Rarely do we have to bring back a car. Usually it only happens if something dosnt show up on a credit report that we run or if the consumer fibs about his or her income and cant prove the amount. In my experience the huge percentage of returned spot deliveries is due to something that the consumer has either lied about or concealed. credit, insurance etc...

Rich

svarney1 · February 2001

I appreciate the responses. I suspected that in most cases a higher down payment was required if something popped up on a more complete credit check - at least when a major, respectable dealership is involved. I'm sure there are some dealerships that will throw every cheap trick in the book at you (I've dealt with one or two of those) but I can't imagine that's good for repeat business.

I bought my car from a dealership that is about twenty miles away, but was treated well and expect to go back there in a few years for my next one. There is a Ford dealer six blocks from where I live, but when I was talking to them it was like I was watching the video supplement to www.carbuyingtips.com or the Clark Howard radio show. It was almost amusing.

Thanks again, everyone. Hope you all have a good week for sales.

shaq2kobe · February 2001

Dealers,
What is the ratio of costumers who pay msrp to customers who pay close to invoice (according to your personal experience)? and do you see the 10 year warranty becoming common practice?

audia8q · February 2001

Deals that are sold at MSRP are not recorded as such, its just a dollar amount. So its hard for me to exactly tell you how many people pay full list vs. invoice. All I can give you is the national new car gross profit $1400. including any and all dealer incentives. Once you take out expenses like rent, salary, finance charges advertsing etc..the net profit drops down to $150-200 per new car sold...dont forget these numbers include everything from kia's to mercedes

no I dont see the 10 year warranty going anywhere. simply people dont keep their cars that long...I expect scheduled maint. to become part of more car warranties. This is something that benefits everyone. high lines have been doing it for a while and its very popular.

Rich

ccotenj · February 2001

is part of the scheduled maintenance "plans" due to the fact that cpo vehicles have become a much more popular way to sell used cars, and this way the dealer is ensured that he at least has a vehicle that has been serviced regularly when it comes off lease?

-Chris

texjayhawk · February 2001

Dealer, while selling me a Chrysler for inv. + $295, is adding over $400 in zone charges. He says they cover advertising. Zone charge?

rsxwannabe · February 2001

I looking to buy that new Acura RS-X Type S when it's available but I'm not to sure how to get the best deal. Since it's gonna be a new model I'm sure the dealer won't be too anxious to lower the price below sticker. Any thoughts on how to get the best deal in this situation. I live in the northern Virginia area where we only have 3 Acura dealerships if that helps.
Also, when I bought my 99 Honda Civic there was an "adjusted market value" sticker that the dealer adds on of about $1k. The dealer told me it was so they could make a "profit". But that didn't make much sense to me. Anybody ever hear of that. I've seen that window sticker at all the Honda dealerships in my area.

agt_cooper · February 2001

You wouldn't be shopping at Rosenthal Honda, by any chance, would you?

That sticker is the most insulting practice I've seen in recent memory. Basically, it is a dealer add-on sticker that usually looks suspiciously like the official MSRP sticker. It is pure nonsense, but I'm sure it works on the unsuspecting shopper. Example: MSRP is 20,000, "add-on" sticker shows something like "$3,000 AMV" (additional market value), total price $23,000.

When you start talking to the friendly dealer, he/she says, "Well, our normal selling price on this vehicle is 23,000, but we'll sell it to you at a discount of 3,500, or 19,500"....such a deal!!!

You should ignore this sticker, and negotiate up from invoice on normal vehicles. For cars in short supply (i.e., Honda Odyssey, Acura TL, or the new Acura RSX), you are more likely to be stuck with near MSRP.

My advice would be to completely ignore the add-on sticker, know real pricing before setting foot in the dealership, and also know what the demand is like for the car of interest. That way, you are most likely to get a fair deal.....

Good luck!!!

rroyce10 · February 2001

.......Here is a boring story for - netsoltice -

When I first got into the business in 1985, My first sales position was with one of the largest Cadillac stores in the country....and up to just recently...of the largest Nissan stores. We would sell 400 -425 cars a month....but anyway, I can remember at many a meeting with the entire staff..... the owner would tell the Finance dept ( 5 full timers )....If you are not bringing back, at least a car a week....You are not doing your jobs....and he was serious.

What spotting means...is that you have a buyer that is satisfied with the deal....you have a seller that is also satisfied - the car is on the ground - they contract- and he is taking it home.
Maybe this consumer is trying to borrow $25,000 on a $19,000 vehicle....Maybe the credit is a little shakey......Maybe the consumer has a couple of lates on the mortgage because of a 60 day lay-off, 8 months ago ....But if the owner/finance director/GSM thought, they could "get them done" ....We rolled the vehicle..that was SOP.

The only point to this silly story is....I always would put a consumer "down the road"...."if" ..We felt there was any daylight...And to this day, I still do it at my stores....I feel this is the best way for the Lenders to look at the deal....and if the consumer might need some xtra monies because of his or her situation...they know what they have bought.

But, to get back to your original question
if everything is fine and there is no problems...No, you can't bring back the vehicle.
But, if there is a problem do to financing...then yes, the dealers will take it back..10 miles or 1,000 miles...that's the fleas, that come with the dog.....

Maybe this will help...?

Terry.

rsxwannabe · February 2001

As a matter of fact that's were I take my car in a pinch. I actually bought my car at landmark (u know...2000 hondas at 1999 prices...big savings there). Any thoughts on the best acura dealer in the area. Thanks for the info.

stickguy · February 2001

If you take it back, i assume the buyer has the option of independantly financing, or you will give him all his money back (so essentially they use the car for free), plus you have to return any trade?

rroyce10 · February 2001

If the deal is fine at the point of contract and delivery...and all is approved, there is no return ---if-- I understand your question...the customer does have the option to pay-off the original deal and refinance the amount...
Terry.

aace · February 2001

I just bought a Toyota Camry LE 2001 with mudguard and value package #3 for 18,500 after rebate (Is this a good deal?). The car has 40 miles on it. After signing all the paperwork, I am ready to take the car home. Now here my curosity, the dealer put the permanent tag on the vehicle. I thought all new car come with a 30 days temporary tags. Is this a new way of doing business, or the dealer just sold me a used car. Can anyone help me? thanks

cfg1 · February 2001

Did you have a trade-in? What happened to the tag for it? What state are you in?

isellpotiac · February 2001

What state are you in? I put permanent tags on every delivery I roll, new or used. I sell cars in New York.

aace · February 2001

I do not have any trade-in for my new car. I live in Maryland. And how did you put a permanent tag in a short amount of time. Did you or the dealer buy a bulk of tags from the registration office or have your own tag shop?

rroyce10 · February 2001

....It all depend's on the state regulations...For example, In Florida..they transfer the old tag right to the new vehicle...In Ohio, You get a 30 day tag...then it transfers later....So, what happens every place else is .....Up to the 'Guv"...

mvargo1 · February 2001

In PA all cars that will be registered in state get a metal tag. You just have to wait 90 days to get the sticker for it.

isellpotiac · March 2001

I don't have my own tag shop. The DMV(Department of Motor Vehicles) gives us a bulk of plates to issue. We roll cars with a temporary registration sticker on the window. This is good for 45 days and they receive the permanant reggie in the mail. If we are transfering plates, the same thing happens only we use the customers' plates. I have seen temporary tags in other states and I am not sure how it works. My advice would be if you do not trust the dealership BUY SOMEWHERE ELSE.

novotny_jack · March 2001

aace
just reviewing the boards. I see you are in MD. At least some of the dealers have the ability to issue permanent tags on cars. Last year I bought a new car at Carmaxx in Laurel, MD. They were able to issue the new tags and the registration certificate immediately. I suspect that the bigger operations at least will all have this ability. Saves the MVA a passle of work. BTW in Maryland the dealers keep a part of the tax fee as renumeration from the state. The tax is the 5% sales tax we pay in MD....however I do not recall the exact amount they keep. Hope this clarifies things. BTW whee did you buy the car
novotny_jack

aace · March 2001

Thank you everyone. Everything is clear now. FYI novotny_jack, I bought my car at Jerry's Toyota on Bel-Air Rd. The sticker price is about 21,000. But you know, sticker price vary from dealer to dealer. I made the offer for 19,500 on the road, and the saleman make the deal, just like that. That is why, I get worry when I see they put a permanent tag on my car on the same day.

audia8q · March 2001

Sorry for the delay in asnwering your question...I dont think that is the reason. I think its for several reasons...Audi started it all when they needed people to buy their cars and at the time European cars were sooooo much more expensive for routine maint than the typical cadillac or lincoln. Also since European car buyers traditionally use the dealers service department much more than Domestics/asians buyers it was an incentive to keep using the dealers service. I like the idea. Im not a big fan of incentives but this is one that really sells cars.
It also really scores big with lease cusotmers. Which are as high as 70% on European models. 3 years and pay for gas and insurance. not bad.

Rich

ccotenj · March 2001

oh, ok. i understand now.
so both sides win. i save a thousand bucks out of my pocket on pm (approximate cost of 2 oil services, 1 inspection and 1 inspection 2 on a 3er), and you get a selling point, plus people get in the habit of using your service department.

i think i like the idea too. thanks for the insight.

-Chris

CarMan@Edmunds · March 2001

Rich & Chris. I think that the popularity of leasing is another major reason why certain manufacturers are offering free scheduled maintenance. There usually aren't any specific guidelines as to what sort of scheduled maintenance a lessee has to perform on the vehicle that they are leasing. As a result, may individuals who lease vehicles never bother to have scheduled maintenance done, or put it off way longer than it should be. By providing free scheduled maintenance, manufacturers are encouraging consumers to take good care of their leased vehicles and they will ultimately get back off-lease cars and trucks that are in better condition than they would have been. I see the free scheduled maintenance as sort of an investment by manufacturers to protect the vehicles that they get back from consumers when their leases end. Not to mention that it is an attractive selling point.

Car_Man
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