BMW 7-Series 2006 and earlier

Kirstie_H · February 2002

We are looking for lawyers (any age, sex, kind of car) who are car nuts.

Please respond by March 9 to lordusky@aol.com

Any questions? Contact Edmunds.com PR at jfallon@edmunds.com

Thanks!
kirstie_h
Roving Host
Edmunds.com

merc1 · February 2002

Wow you lucky fellow. So many cylinders all together..ooooooooooo.

I'd take the Benz because it is newer and more advanced, but I wouldn't cry over having to drive a 750iL BMW either.

M

v12power · February 2002

The best part about the advanced features on the Benz is that they are pretty easy to use. There is a training period but it becomes rather intuitive after a few times. I always though the 750 was complex, now it seems simplistic by comparison. One great feature MB needs to offer is the heated steering wheel rim, that is very nice up here in Minnesota.

I suppose i-drive makes the 745s features easier to access as well. I think at some point they will go too far on the electronic convieniences, though on the Benz they seem to all provide usable, functional attributes to the car.

Kirstie_H · March 2002

Is anyone out there participating either in a formal or informal "car-sharing" deal? I'm looking for folks (other than spouses) who co-own luxury vehicles. If you fit the bill, or know someone who does, I'm hoping you'll contact me by Wednesday, March 6 with your contact information, the type of vehicle you share, and your city and state of residence. Thanks much!
Jeannine Fallon
PR Director
Edmunds.com
jfallon@edmunds.com

thedynamo · March 2002

How come you judge the BMW 745i's suspension system inferior to your beautiful S600 when you wouldn't even drive the new system on the BMW?

v12power · March 2002

I know how BMW chose to do it. They are controlling the anti roll bar. This helps body roll, mostly on turn in. The springs are the only thing that truely limit the body roll. The MB ABC system alters the effective spring rate, just by its design it is destined to be superior. I tried once to improve handling on my Porsche by changing shocks and anti roll bars. It simply does not work, the solution is to up the spring rates.

I am sure that the 745 is a wonderful car to drive. My issue with it is that they don't make paper bags big enough to hide it looks. Just one BMW enthusiasts opinion.I was on my fourth BMW car, looking for the fifth when BMW dropped the ball.

toyotas1 · March 2002

The Benz has just been trumped! The new 7 is the leader now. Sorry!

merc1 · March 2002

Well that truly remains to be seen, but even if that is true and accepted as fact it's no biggie to me. Mercedes and BMW have been leapfrogging each other since 1988, when BMW jumped past Mercedes for the first time in this class with the V12 750iL. Long as a German car is seated at the top I don't really mind BMW taking the title of "World's Best" for a minute. No "Sorry" needed.

What I'd really like to see is the next A8 trump them both.

M

v12power · March 2002

Dealers near NYC are having trouble keeping MB S-class cars in stock. Since the introduction of the 745 there has been a lot of activity on new S500s.

Coming from somebody using toyotas1 as a handle I wonder if you are in the market for a new $70k car? I really do not intend that to be snobbish, I am just curious. I have found that many people that like the new BMW 7er do not actually intend to buy one. It is more like a dream car. Most folks buying these cars did not want to be taken where Chris Bangle, the stylist, wants us to go. I see the car appealing to a younger crowd, though at 33 I don't care for it, and the hardcore brand loyal. I have a tough time seeing it doing very well.

postoak · March 2002

I will never be in the market for a $70,000 car and I, finally, saw my first 745 on my drive in this morning, and I thought it looked pretty good. Certainly the much maligned rear-end was much more pleasing to my eyes than those of the Camry and Avalon.

nyccarguy · March 2002

I know when the current S Class first came out and was in high demand, many places including NYC & FLA couldn't keep 740iLs on their lots because people didn't want to wait or didn't want to pay over sticker!

toyotas1 · March 2002

May kick BOTH they asses!!! The A8 is dead! Who do you think VW is going to put the ad dollars behind? Even once the A8 is redesigned in 2 years? And to allay some of your curiousity V12, I'm over 21, but less than 1000......

toyotas1 · March 2002

Will probably kick BOTH they asses!!! If they can only find somewhere to sell it....

v12power · March 2002

I am not concerned about your age. I was more curious to find out if you are a legitimate buyer on a new 745.

millerro3 · March 2002

It doesn't sound like you've driven the 745i.

I suggest you at least drive it and then see whether it handles better than the MB.

I have driven both, back to back.

There is NO comparison, sorry

While exhibiting no body roll through corners, it handles bumps and irregularities very smoothly.

Firming up the suspension to compensate for body roll? Hopefully it's a smooth corner, or you're gonna be feeling EVERY single pebble and twig through said corner

v12power · March 2002

I would push a Caddilac before I would drive that hiddeous 745i. If you would like to compare the 745 with my S600 I would gladly meet you on any racetrack and blow you doors off.

I wonder if you understand suspension dynamics. I have done some racing, and car prep to get there. Cheating, as BMW has, will preserve a soft ride. That seems more important to you. There is no way the BMW has less body roll than the MB. Which MB did you compare it with? S430, S500, S55AMG, S600. The cars with the air suspension handle differently than those with the ABC system. ABC is light years ahead of the technology BMW is using. I'm glad you like your car. I still couldn't do it even IF the BMW handled better, the car makes me physically ILL, inside and out. It really doesn't matter how it drives, BMW ruined the car.

agent0986 · March 2002

actually the S600 goes to 60 in 5.8, the 1998 750il in 6.5 and the new 745i in 5.9
You are probably correct about the S600 being able to take the 745i on the track although the 7 would hold its own. sorry to tell you, but you wont be blowing any doors off anything. Drive the car first. (disregard the shape, im with you on that one...its growing on me though...sort of) the new 760Li i assume will be faster than the 745i though, and there is NO mercedes that will be able to keep up with it on ANY race track.

agent0986 · March 2002

and for the record, i own a Lexus LS430(sport) which is one of the best luxury cars out there. Had the 7 series came out a bit earlier, i probably would of gone with the 745i. Both are truly amazing cars. The S430/S500 did not impress me at all. Especially the S430. The S500 was solid except for the extremely cheap interior amenities and the driving feel just didnt match the Lexus/Bmw. The performance was top notch though. I assume the S600 is on a completely differnt level though. Out of my price range also.

millerro3 · March 2002

I didn't know that the people who are buying these cars don't care about ride quality! "Hell, as long as it drives like a race car, I'll spend 95 grand for it, and I can always replace my fillings."

Silly me, I should know that pretty much everyone who buys one of these $70-110,000 cars is bringing them to a racetrack! I guess you choose not to believe me that I have driven both of these cars, meaning one right after another, and the S430 was routinely trounced, not so badly in acceleration, but through the cones it just could not keep up. This was at the Miami speedway in January.

Saying that your S600 will blow my doors off, that's good. Cause it would kinda be a little embarassing for MB if they're flagship were trumped by a car with four fewer cylinders that's in the same weight class.

And I gotta wonder, if the car makes you physically ill inside and out, why are you in this thread which is specifically titled BMW 7 series? I would think you would want to avoid ANYTHING having to do with this car

merc1 · March 2002

Well I'm sure the Phaeton will cause a splash, but VW's dealer setup with keep it from kicking any ____. The next A8 on the other hand me be the class leader. Naturally Mercedes won't take all of this sitting down.

About this 7-Series/S-Class debate. Mercedes and BMW have been doing this for years, leapfrogging each other. The 7 has raised the bar on a S-Class that truly wasn't Mercedes best effort in the first place. I just can't get past the 7's styling.

M

v12power · March 2002

actually the S600 that was tested by C&D turned a 5.4 0-60, a little quicker than MB numbers. The 760iL will get creamed by the upcoming supercharged S55 AMG with well over 400hp. I agree this is more leap-frogging.

millero3. Wonderful, you drove the S430. It DOES NOT have the same suspension system offered on the S500, and standard on S55 and S600 models. Once again, glad you like your car, I am sure you find it to be wonderful. No matter what you do I doubt you will need dental work after driving Mercedes flagship, thanks for the outrageous exaggeration though. It is pretty clear we have different priorities for our cars. I like the MB active suspension system for its ability to provide a smooth ride and impressive handling. I am less concerned about riding on a cloud than I am DRIVING the machine. To each his own. The reason I am posting is because I own a seven series car, '98 750iL. There are obviously more E38 owners out there than E65. I love that car and would be interested in sharing my experiences with it. Prior to that I had a 740iL. I think that should justify my presence, not that it should be necessary.

toyotas1 · March 2002

We agree on the dealer issue for the Pheaton, but since it is 2+ years away...... With regards to the S-class, guess whose sales are down 40% and who's up 50% for 2002? V12, stop being a little &%$@* and drive the Bimmer....

millerro3 · March 2002

"Mercedes-Benz offers a similar system, called Active Body Control (ABC), on the S-Class sedan, a direct competitor to the BMW Seven, but the Bavarians have done a better job by a significant margin."

This, coming from Edmunds own review of their first drive in the 745i. I'm sure they DROVE the car.

I too am positive that an S55 will outrun a 760Li. BMW would have to produce an M7 to compete with an S55. Another leapfrog:)

toyotas1 · March 2002

is said to be priced starting in the upper 40's!!! That's with a 241HP six. A TDI 310HP V-10 and 420HP V-12 are also coming. Sounds like the car's BASE PRICE will top out around $70-75k!!! Very interesting..... and VW wants to sell 10000 a year here (out of 20000 worldwide)....

afty · March 2002

Car Magazine (a UK mag) tested the 745i and the S500 this month. They said that the S500 was slightly faster in a straight line, but that the 745i rode more firmly and handled better. They said that the 745i's active anti-roll bar system was so good it made the big BMW feel almost as nimble as a 3-Series. I'm not sure whether their S500 had the ABC system; I didn't read the article that closely as both of these cars are a bit out of my price range. :-)

merc1 · March 2002

Who's sales are down %40 this year? I guess you mean the S-Class. Makes sense, there is a LS430 and new 745i eating into that. This is what happens when new cars enter this rung of the market, there are visible drops in the sales for the "older" cars already there. The same thing will happen as the LS430 ages and the S-Class gets a facelift, the LS will decline and the S will increase. It's not the end of Mercedes as you are seemingly trying to imply, guess who just had their best Jan sales ever in the U.S?

On this S-Class/7-Series thing. If the 2003/04 which ever year the S gets it's facelift, and the S55 gets the same 469hp motor in the SL55, the 760iL will be toast, but I do hear there is a 500hp V12 M7 in the works.

M

toyotas1 · March 2002

given we have a M3 and M5. I await it anxiously...... The LS ALSO suffered a 35% sales drop since the new 7, but still comfortably outsells both...... The sales numbers will be much more meaningful in November and December, after the novelty wears off.... I LOVE COMPETITION!!!

benznut · March 2002

Say what you want, the BMW never stood the chance on styling against Mercedes. Nad let's not forget hat Mercedes started the revolution in making a car full of gismos. BMW is just one-upping something that was innovative already.

The 760Li will be heavier than the 745, and that incerease in power will not necessarily ace the acceleration and handling as much as some expect. An S600 should definitively keep very well with the 760, if not have a slight advantage, especially with the sport package. Do not forge that when the v12 bimmer comes out, the Benz will also have 408 horses under the hood (per Automobile Mag). If a standard S600 with 362 hp runs 5.4 form 0-60, what do you exect from the same car, with proper sport "attire" and 46 more horses?!
The MB is giving MBW a run for its money in performance, that used to be bimmer's hoem turf.
That said. i have not yet driven the 7 series, but I have riden on a S600

toyotas1 · March 2002

My indusrty sources are reporting that the V-6 Phetn will be around $48k and the 420 V12 will price close to $90k!! Twice the cylinders, twice the price (more or less). I have also been told that it will make it's appearance in mid to late 2003 (calender year)....... Now, benznut, let's no go breaking our arm patting Mercedes on the back for "Innovating" multi-featured interiors on their luxury sedans. Looking at the current S-class, you MUST see the HUGE influence Lexus has had on Mercedes interior design (tell the truth now)!! And STILL the interior is far too complicated...... the new 7 is SLIGHTLY better, but Lexus still rules interior design......

rmorin2 · March 2002

I'm looking at trading my 3 series convertible for a late model 7 series. Other than the headlights what are the other differences in the '01 model compared to the '00 and '99?

Also, I would appreciate any advice on extended warranties especially GE. Thanks.
Feel free to email me using my profile to get my address.

laithy_74 · March 2002

I believe a 500+ hp M7 has been given the green light.

benznut · March 2002

... will be properly "welcomed" by the supercharged S55 AMG, if not an S63. Looking forward to those comparison tests.

nyccarguy · March 2002

I saw a Silver/Grey 745i on the West Side Highway this morning. It is growing on me...slowly!

Kirstie_H · March 2002

A major midwestern newspaper is interested in speaking with folks who have anecdotes and opinions on rear wheel drive vs. front wheel drive in winter driving conditions.
We're also looking for people who recently switched one way or the other and what they like/dislike about what they're driving now.
If you are interested in participating, please provide your city/state of residence and your daytime phone number to jfallon@edmunds.com no later than March 20, 2002.
Thanks as always,
Jeannine Fallon
PR Director
Edmunds.com

richardga73 · March 2002

It just seems that even though we are talking about a lot of nice cars it seems that they are just missing the boat about being "fun" to drive due to the enormous content and weight that they carry. The very idea that you have to read an inch thick book to start the car is taking it to a new level of funk. Sure, these cars have 300+ horses but if the body weight is routinely above 4200-4500 lbs. you" feel" it when you drive it and" tossing" it around and getting the exciting feel that we all want is missing. I personally dont need all the content: see heated seats, heated steering wheel!, camera in the back, back seat electric recline, etc.,etc. Give me something around 300+ hp., 3400 lbs, steering feel,auto trans, four doors,reasonably fixed and reliability. And dont say the 2 ton 540i !

toyotas1 · March 2002

The 7 will NEVER be that car! The new E500 will be close. It LOST 40lbs. The M3, the new Z. Great cars are here. If you want 300HP, 4 doors, and light weight, put a chip on a 330i, or a blower on an Altima. The 7 is a great car, but still to hard to live with.

v12power · March 2002

My '98 750 and the 740 I had before that, do not feel that heavy. That is what BMW is famous for, brilliant driving dynamics. They can engineer a big car like the 7 to be an absolute rocket, and a blast to drive quickly. You need to drive one before passing judgement, oopps did I say that ?

Hard to live with? How so? Do you drive a 7?

millerro3 · March 2002

you said it...That is what BMW is famous for, brilliant driving dynamics. They can engineer a big car like the 7 to be an absolute rocket, and a blast to drive quickly. BMW didn't lose anything in that regard with this 745i. They are definitely pushing the envelope with the technology in the car, but, it is really starting to sell. People are not so put off as some magazines would have you believing.
And it does not take more than two (2) seconds to start the car.
The poster who stated it's necesary to read a one inch manual on how to start the car, is so OBVIOUSLY reciting meaningless drivel, that was no doubt stated by some magazine reviewer without a clue.
Anybody ever read MSN's carpoint reviews by Daniel Heraud and the other two? If not, check them out for entertainment value only, because anything useful will not be found within them.

toyotas1 · March 2002

a 99 sport (a friend's). The car is definitely a fast car MT says 5.9 secs!) The interior had a lot of features, but didn't seem very luxurious. The stereo was confusing. Plenty of legroom, and GREAT sightlines! It sure felt heavy, which is good. It was solid. It didn't come alive in my hands (only a manual can do that), but with practice I can see how it could ALMOST be fun to drive. I just hate AUTOS. Great looking car too. I'm not 40 or older though, so it ain't for me.

richardga73 · March 2002

toyotas 1 you are right about the new E 500. I have an E430 and a 740il. The E is tossable weight wise(3400 lbs,275 hp) but the steering is a little too light and the power is not totally kickbutt( 0-60 in 6.7 sec.). Not as light steering as my previous LS400 but not the feel of the 740. The 740 to me is not tossable in feeling. Maybe timewise in the slalom but not gratifying.Also, maybe they have isolated these cars in noise value a little too much so that you have a reduced involvement. I will now probably wait on the new E, especially since you can get it without the command gizmo. Im afraid of what they will do to the 5-series. That would be the perfect car if it werent for the weight.

mycharlie · March 2002

I have an older model 735si (86).
I bought it used otherwise I would never had been able to afford it. It has been the most reliable, sturdy and all around the best car I have ever owned. I feel safe when I'm in it, it rides beautifully, and even in the worst storm it handles extremely well. Unfortunately,with almost 400,000 miles on it,it's time to start looking for something a little newer. I have been looking for something comparable, but have yet to find it.
From the reviews of the later models, maybe I just got lucky.

jjsoll · March 2002

I need some objective advice (to the extent any advice is objective)on buying a '99 740i. I have a dealer contact who has agreed to pick one up for me at a dealers' auction for $200 above what he pays. I'm fairly certain I can get one with about 40,000 miles for $30-33k. I'm also considering a Lexus GS 400, which I know is an apples to oranges comparison. I have researched and am aware of the obvious differences. However, I have read some nightmare reliability stories of BMW owners and their experiences with long repair times, repetitive and costly repairs and multiple failures of electrical, AC, etc. I'm sure some of these are due to untrained or under-trained dealer mechanics and some by owners who don't stay on top of their cars. But I'm trying to find out if there are enough legitimate problems with BMW and their engineering to either stick with the 530 (straight 6 vs. V8) or compromise what I want and get the Lexus, which is fast and luxurious, just smaller and not much road feel IMO. I also read (I think it was gearman?) that BMW still uses aluminum blocks and lined their cylinders with silicone rather than steel, which others gave up long ago, and which leads to problems with a high mileage V block (I'm not sure if I have this quite right). I once owned a SAAB 9000 Turbo, but after window motor, AC, radio and warning light, engine mount and other expensive and elusive problems, I went back to Japanese reliability. Since I'm thinking of taking the plunge again, I was hoping someone could tell me if (i) the V block cylinder linings and reliability issues are a cause to change my mind and (ii) since it appears that I will save a few thousand over a dealer by getting one at an auction , if an extended BMW warranty is a reasonable purchase, expecially in light of the reliability (and whether the BMW extended warranties are the same as the original or do they contain rich exclusions). Thanks very much!!

roddmod11 · March 2002

$74,000 Could not wait to get back in my LS400.

Whats up with that shifter? and the Large Key that you sticks in the slot to start it, rides and handles just like a Cadillac CTS very firm, but the Cadillac CTS Idled smoother, Don't believe me try a CTS you will think it handles and rides the same. More power from the 745, but not that much more, for 43K less money. Not that I like the CTS but I could not believe how they handled the same, it was like a direct copy.

v12power · March 2002

Aluminum engine blocks that use coatings are still very common, they are the standard of the industry. BMW had trouble with the V8 engines from '93-'95, those are to be avoided. The '99 will be just fine. I had a '95 740iL and have a '98 750iL. These cars do require more service than the average. By the same token they drive much better than anything that size has a right to. Definately buy and extended warranty. If your connection is a BMW dealer connection get the BMW CPO warranty. I have had it on both of mine. I would not own one of these without the warranty. But that is not to say they are un-reliable, just more maint. intensive.

jonione · March 2002

Does anyone have any words of wisdom concerning my anticipated purchase of a 1991 BMW 750 IL with 142,000 miles. It seems to be tight. Looks fine! Comes with 2 sets of tires/rims. Are there any horror stories I should know about?

v12power · March 2002

I almost bought a '91 with 60k miles on it off ebay. Driving the car revealed some serious flaws. The transmission shifted abruptly, do not mistake this for a firm performance shift. If it shifts hard the VERY expensive trans is going out, this is common. The other major expense was an electronic part for the ASC, the parts alone were ~$2000. I passed on this car even though it was very clean. I would just make sure everything works as it should. I also hope you are not paying over about $5k for it with those miles. You should plan on spending another $5k to keep it up over the next year or two. Wonderful cars, just as expensive to maintain as they were to buy when new, be careful.

dave203 · April 2002

I am picking up a '99 740i Sport and what I am hearing on here makes me nervous. Let me say that I also own a 95 Lexus LS400 which has been 100% reliable and trouble free. I know BMW had problems with the older 4.0 V8, but the new ones should be fine. I want to hear from 740 owners with the 4.4L V8..how has the reliability been and how is service ? So far I have heard a 7-series complete tuneup runs $700...it costed $1400 for me Lexus...but I want to hear from 740 Owners.

merc1 · April 2002

It's amazing to me how much cheaper Lexuses are supposed to be to maintain, but yet I keep reading about these high prices for this and that.....

M

v12power · April 2002

Lexus is one of the MOST expensive marques to maintain. When you factor in that Audi, MB, and BMW all offer paid service for at least the first three years, the gap widens.

I think one difference is that the Lexus does not need much if any repair between services. I am on my second 7 series BMW. I know my BMW service writers cell phone number by heart. I am also quite familiar with the 325i wagon he gives me as a loaner. It is actually in my driveway right now. These cars are quite solid from a drivetrain standpoint. It is mainly electronics that cause problems. My 750 is in right now for failed parktronic sensors. Other issues have been with the ABS and Trac control systems.

The 740i Sport is an awesome car, and by far the best looking of the competition. They drive wonderfully. I bought a new S600, but decided to keep the '98 750 because I really like the car(and despise the new 745). I would take a bath in depreciation so there was no incentive to trade or sell it, not until I run out of room anyway.

You will not regret buying a 740iS. It is a very different flavor than the LS400. They are a little more work, but a lot more rewarding. I continue to buy German cars for the driving experience. I find the trade off to be worth it.

bobbyknight · April 2002

Take a look at the back of a Chrysler Cirrus, then look at the back of the 745i. Is that a direct copy or a coincidence?

BMW 7-Series 2006 and earlier

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