Chevrolet Cavalier

bottgers · June 2003

Vinny

  Again, I think you've missed my point. Your point that Japanese car makers have flops with their vehicles before they're sold here in the U.S. is moot. The only time that would matter would be if we were going to Japan and buying those cars.

  Another thing you seem to be focusing on is small cars. I'm saying any vehicle built by Honda or Toyota sold here in the states is of superior build quality to those built by the big 3. The Honda Pilot for example, is a brand new model. Even though it's in it's first model year and will no doubt be experiencing the typical initial run problems found with any new model, I'd be willing to bet it still ends up with better reliability data than any of the of the big 3's current SUV models. Same thing with Toyota's pickups, they literally kick butt in terms of reliability compared to anything the big 3 make. You're talking about sales figures, I'm talking about build quality and reliability. Sales and reliability are two totally different catagories.

Venus

  You'd say the current Civic is a loser? I guess the staffers at Car & Driver would disagree with your assessment as they ranked the current Civic #1 compared to all the other cars in its class. Consumer's Reports also ranks the car either amoung the most reliable, or the most reliable car in its class, depending on the model year. If you consider this car a loser, I'd like to see what you consider a winner.

venus537 · June 2003

you must get a different car and driver than i do. in the last small car comparison test, the civic came in mid pack. they had a phrase something like this in their summary "something new from honda, a loser".

as for consumer reports. the civic is rated as above average in reliability. it did come in second to the ford focus in the road test though. since the focus is rated below average in reliability, it's not recommended. thus the civic is their highest recommended small car.

pat · June 2003

Hey folks? Let's keep an eye on the fact that this is supposed to be a specific discussion on the the Cavalier.

bottgers · June 2003

Sorry, the comparo was done by the editors of Edmunds, and it's listed in this site under reviews for the Civic. The Civic is far from being a "loser", and plays second fiddle to nothing the Focus does. If you look at CR's ratings for the 2002 and newer Civics, you'll see it has nothing but full red circles in almost every rated catagory (which is the highest rating a vehilce can receive), with very few partial red circles, which is still very good. There are very few vehicles of any make that score this high. The Civic is well above "marginal" in every catagory. I guess we should allow this thread to get back to the Cavalier.

venus537 · June 2003

don't confuse those red circles with road test performance. this is where the focus scored better.

bottgers · June 2003

Road test the Focus and Civic after they've both rolled up 100K miles and see which one fairs better......that is if the Focus is still drivable.

hoyahenry · June 2003

Toto, we're not in Chevyland anymore.

bottgers · June 2003

Sorry, I guess I should've thrown the Cavalier into that comparison as well. Better?

venus537 · June 2003

great post! and very funny. as much as i would love to repsond to bottgers, i'm out of here.

hoyahenry · June 2003

Excuse me, but you test drove a Cavalier, and then led into an apples to oranges comparison in the wrong forum that was based upon inaccurate/incomplete/fallacious data and innuendo about the veracity of Honda - as usual.

I have 11 years of experience with two Cavaliers. 10 with one, and six so far on the other - as posted here on different occasions. My wife drove an 85 Cavalier, and so did her two brothers and the family friend to whom they sold it. It made it into the year 2000. It went the distance with the most basic repairs, and so have the two we've owned.

Cavaliers start up and go every day, get decent gas mileage, cheap and easy to repair (even DIY), etc. It seems car rental companies love these cars, too; maybe because they are so cheap and easy to maintain. In fact, the 97 we have is still as good as new.

As for cost, I realize this is the last thing on your list, but all-in-all, GM can sell these cars for many reasons.

pat · June 2003

This looks a great time to stop all of the off-topic commentary that has overtaken this discussion.

There are plenty of comparison discussions on the "Sedans Comparisons" board. Feel free to join in over there.

Back to the Cavalier...

ajitknox · June 2003

hey,
speakin of cavalier, my 96 cavalier has a big hole in the muffler. Infact i luv the fact that it has this hole since it makes the noise of the car more sporty. but thinkin in long terms, is are there any problems i could face if i do not replace it.
also, can anyone give a rough estimate as to how much it costs to rebuild the transmission of a cavalier (automatic).
Thanks a lot guys
AJ

hoyahenry · June 2003

A couple of weeks ago on our 97LS, I lost switch settings low and medium low on the interior air circulation fan - medium high and high worked great. I thought maybe I had lost the fan motor, or part of it somehow.

After looking over the wiring information in Chiltons, I decided it was probably the blower resistor. A couple of web searches later, I came across several posts regarding this problem - but I think they would have been impossible to find if I hadn't already identified the cause of the malfunction.

I am happy to report that it is now fixed. :>

So, since this is a common problem, here is the procedure in case others may benefit:

1) Remove the black plastic insulation panel that covers the space under the dash past the glove box to the firewall. There are two black screws that hold the panel in place.

2) Disconnect the motor wiring harness - pull the outside clip away from the housing and pull downward.

3) Remove the three bronze screws that hold the blower motor in place.

Once the motor and fan assembly are out, you can actually see the circuit board that is the resistor inside the fan assembly housing. A four wire wiring harness goes to the off-white resistor base.

4) Remove the wiring harness from the resistor.

5) Remove two screws that secure the resistor to the fan assembly housing - the rear screw is a real tough one to get. (Suffice it to say, I won't have to remove that screw again because I didn't put it back.)

6) Reverse the process to re-assemble.

The part was not available from the auto parts stores near me. I could have bought it online from autozone for about $20 with S/H. It's a special order item, so no idea how long before I received it. So, I got the genuine, in-stock AC Delco part from the dealer down the street for $29 on the same day. Not the best, but convenience and availability has its price.

With a 1/4" socket set, this is a 20-30 minute job for the average DIY-er.

alpha01 · June 2003

Just for reference, Car and Driver rated the Civic LX 5th out of 10 in a recent comparo, and they DID call it a loser. Now of course, the Cavalier wasnt in the test....

~alpha

pat · June 2003

... but since we have moved on, we aren't going to pursue that particular C&D comparo in *this* discussion for the very reason you mention - the Cavalier wasn't part of it.

: )

bottgers · June 2003

........I'd be glad to continue the Civic vs whatever comparison in the Honda Civic thread.

ciwa · June 2003

I have a 97 Cavalier and about two months ago my mechanic changed an injector since it was leaking and I could smell gas in the car.

Around the same time I started to notice that the engine's RPM was irregular at idle, and sometimes stalling - had to keep the gas pedal down to keep motor from stalling out. Brought it back, changed plugs+wires.

A week later, it came back, but now it looks like there's a miss, but without doing anything the motor "recuperates" and never stalls completely.
I sometimes lose power while driving, and the temp. gauge sometimes goes higher than normal.

Problem is intermittent and my mechanic only saw it once for about 3 seconds. He had the car running for 2 hours and even drove it around for a while. Never saw it. Sometimes, the check engine light comes on and stays on at ignition. Sometimes it doesn't.

My mechanic says it's electrical, but he's not willing to start changing a whole lot of stuff to figure it out (trying to save me money I guess

I've been driving around with this for about 2 weeks since my mechanic last saw it. Even brought the car in to the dealer for a recall and they didn't see it (or they would have told me about it)

Anyone ever had something similar? Any suggestions as to what it might be?

hoyahenry · June 2003

I have a 97 2.2L. I experienced something similar to that which you described a few months ago. When I would be slowing or braking I would sometimes notice a 200-400 RPM drop and a drop in electrical output, and then it would recover. I never had a stall or a check engine light though.

I'm fairly certain that it occurred after I had the ignition wiring harness recall service performed, not before.

The only maintenance items performed since were wires, plugs, and air filter. There was the blower resistor module. I haven't seen the problem since that went, coincidentally. I'd actually forgotten about it until you mentioned it.

isseyvoo · June 2003

I suppose it's silly these days to celebrate such a thing, but my '92 Cavalier just crossed the 100K mi. barrier yesterday. Hurray!!! I did a little dance in the driver's seat as the odometer rolled over. And the air was still blowing ice cold in this God-awful heat wave we've been having in the Hudson Valley.

sneakyuser · July 2003

I have a 2002 Cavalier. Can the power steering can be made to drive with a lighter feel or if the engine idle speed, when hot, can be increased?

Is there an aftermarket power steering pump available with a lighter feel? Can the pump's pully size be exchanges?

My new Cavalier has an idle of about 500 RPM and the steering feels VERY stiff taking off from a stop. When the engine is cold and the idle is at about 800 RPM, the steerinig feels lighter and I would like it that way all of the time. The idle speed adjustment screw is off limits to me with a 5-sided torx screw (not the usual 6-sided version).

Thanks in advance.

Si

vocus · July 2003

I heard an ad on the radio that you can now get 0% financing for up to 72 months on Cavaliers or $4000 cash back. Any truth in this?

venus537 · July 2003

are you thinking of getting a cavalier?

cwo4 · July 2003

With the rebates we can get a 2003 4 Door, AC, radio with CD, automatic transmission for less than $11K. I can't find a Toyota Echo or a Hyundai for that price. So whats wrong with getting a Cavalier?

venus537 · July 2003

because going from his jetta 1.8t to a cavalier would be a major step downward. as it would be for a toyota echo or a hyundai from the jetta.

vocus · July 2003

The thought crossed my mind, had my car been a total loss, in order to save some money for other things I wanted to do in my life. I don't think I would be willing to make the sacrifice though, speaking from a personal standpoint.

The Cavalier isn't a bad car, but I am used to a car that's more luxurious, quicker, and one that 'feels' heavier in my hands than the Cavalier does.

dindak · July 2003

Actually with the Ecotec, the Cavalier is likely faster than your Jetta. Every thing else would be a step down for sure though.

Was your car a w/o, I never did hear?

pat · July 2003

Dindak, the saga of vocus' car is in the Jetta discussion. I've asked him to keep the conversation in one discussion, so please check it out over there. Thanks!

alpha01 · July 2003

I don't know, an eco Cavalier beating a 1.8T Jetta?

~alpha

dindak · July 2003

You are right, about a second difference in 0-60, I forgot it was a turbo.

regfootball · July 2003

even if the cav is faster, overall the jetta looks and feels about 5 grand better.

vocus · July 2003

That's because it costs about $5 grand more..

venus537 · July 2003

the 1.8t will blow away a cavalier.

regfootball · July 2003

jetta GL's can be bought for under 16 grand. Too many cavaliers sticker at close to 20 grand. Of course, its a 95 cavalier with a 2003 sticker on it so it needs 5 grand or more in discounts etc. for anyone to come in and test drive it. Jettas might even be able to be leased cheaper than cav's considering the better resale.

bottom line is, no one buys a cav out of desire, but many buy jettas because of desire. I would bet 90% of those who buy cavs would have preferred another car, but had to settle for the cav because of incentives, etc.

vinnyny · July 2003

I made that choice in February--Cavalier. I didn't have to settle because I couldn't afford the Jetta either. The Jetta GLS was just too slow. The Cavalier, with its new Ecotec engine, runs circles around the Jetta GLS. I bought it for my kid because in "sports coupe" trim, it looked and ran sportier than the Jetta. (Of course, it didn't hurt that the $20K sticker resulted in a $13K out-the-door sales price).

venus537 · July 2003

you could of gotten the GL 1.8t and have a car that run circles around the cavalier. cavalier being sportier than a jetta in any form doesn't compute to me.

dindak · July 2003

On what planet can you get a 1.8T Jetta for $13K out the door?

vinnyny · July 2003

Venus:

Good point. The Jetta 1.8T automatic is quicker than the Cavalier. However, the purchase price is bound to be about 70% higher. At about $21,500 (excluding TT&L) the Jetta 1.8T will outperform the Cavalier (although I wouldn't call a half-second advantage in the 0-60 mph or quarter-mile runs "running circles around the cavalier").

Just for grins, let's see what we can buy for a 70% price differential over a Jetta 1.8T (about $36,500): Honda S2000, Ford Mustang SVT Cobra, Infiniti G35 coupe, Nissan 350Z, Mazda RX-8, etc. Care to run your Jetta against any of these?

As far as "sporty" is concerned, I guess that's truly in the eyes of the beholder.

vocus · July 2003

What did I start? I didn't mean to start this, just so you all know. I was just saying before about the Cavalier being more of an economy car while the Jetta is a little more luxurious. Of course, the prices definitely reflect it.

I think Venus meant the Jetta would be sportier, not necessarily at the same price, as the Cavalier, Vinny.

Actually, a friend of mine was talking tonight about a Cavalier because of the good prices. He spoke of a loaded Cav LS with a $19k MSRP for $12K at a dealer near us, and said he thought about getting one since he would be able to afford a new car now and not have to wait until next year. I think the idea of getting one because of all the rebates is almost right.

They still don't sway some people though. They definitely didn't work for me, I ended up getting something else instead of the Cav.

vinnyny · July 2003

Vocus:

You didn't start anything but a little friendly debate...

The Cavalier offers a lot of features for the money. It's good looking, performs well and gets decent gas mileage. However, it's not the most reliable.

alpha01 · July 2003

The only reason I didnt consider the Cavalier more seriously this past January were its offset and side impact crash test scores. You figure, you're buying a 2003 vehicle, why should it offer bottom rung safety?

~alpha

venus537 · July 2003

are you comparing the actual purchase price of the cavalier to the sticker price of the jetta? though you're certainly not going to get as large of a discount on the jetta, they certainly don't sell at sticker either.

when it comes time to unload the jetta, you're going to get a lot more for the car than you would with a cavalier too.

considering how much more car your getting with a jetta, the cavalier is not a better value IMO.

car and driver timed a passat 1.8t auto at 0-60 in 7.5 seconds. the jetta 1.8t weighs less and has 10 more hp, so a jetta would probably be a little better than that. the cavalier four banger is not nearly as smooth or economical either.

your profile says you drive an audi TT, i don't need to tell you what sporty is. what's sporty about a cavalier other than decent acceleration?

other than size, these two cars are in two different leagues. the jetta has an interior decor that's on par with cars costing over $30k for pete sakes. i could go on and on on the differences....

if you could afford a jetta and were considering one, the cavalier shouldn't come into the picture. look at it this way, how many miles would a used jetta 1.8t GL have to have to sell at $13K.

which brings this discussion to the beginning point, how many people buy a cavalier because that's the car they really want? there's a reason these cars sell at such huge discounts.

GM keeps the plants open and our citizens employed doing this which is good. now build a small economy car that they can be proud of.

for economy cars, what about an elantra? there's a car thats really improved.

vcjumper · July 2003

Off topic but even VW states 0-60 in 8.8 seconds for the 1.8T auto tranny in the Passat. Unless something's changed for 03/04, the last passat I drove burdened with the auto tranny was not a quick car at all. Downright frustrating with the slush box because with a manual tranny it does become atleast an average performer at 0-60 in the high seven second range http://www.vwaudihuntsville.com/html-vw/vw-passat-specs.htm
Also, the Jetta 1.8T is in a completely different class than the Cavalier. Sheesh it costs more than 50% more up here anyways.. And is in the class with Accords and Mazda 6's.

regfootball · July 2003

"when it comes time to unload the jetta, you're going to get a lot more for the car than you would with a cavalier too."

exactly....same thing with Civics. That's why a 99 Civic is worth more today than my 99 v8 Taurus with leather.

from 'another website'....but you may also compare edmunds TMV if you wish (Pat this is where you jump in and remind our readers of Edmunds TMV feature) Jetta GL turbo around 18 grand....that's also a well equipped Jetta.

Jettas frequently lease around or under 200 a month also.

vinnyny · July 2003

As usual, you're correct. The Cavalier and Jetta 1.8T are in different classes. My point was exactly that--it's unfair to compare two vehicles from different price classes. The 2003 Cavalier LS Sports Coupe I bought for my daughter cost $13,127 (delivered) while the Edmunds TMV for a 2003 Jetta 1.8T with sports package and auto tranny is $21,787 (that doesn't include sales tax and any other fees). So, the difference is more than 70%. Since you brought up my TT, the price difference between a VW Beetle Convertible and my Audi TT Roadster is also about 70%, but I don't think it's fair to compare the two. (You already know how I feel about the Jetta vs. cars costing 70% more).

As to the idea that nobody would buy a Cavalier as their first choice, I obviously disagree. Although I could have afforded to buy a more expensive car for my daughter, it didn't make sense. She liked the style, power, and features--it was her first choice. She liked the Jetta GLS too, but it was too underpowered and (in her eyes) not very sporty.

venus537 · July 2003

there was a 20 hp jump in the last "freshened up" of the passat 1.8t. my source for the 0-60 7.6 sec (i stated 7.5 incorrectly in previous post) is the feb c&d issue - family car comparison. the jetta 1.8t had a 30 hp jump in the 2002 model year.

venus537 · July 2003

i was thinking of a gl jetta 1.8t with no sports package for comparison.

your situation reminds of my nephew's situation about 10 years ago. i was trying to talk him into a used accord (the generation with the pop up head lights) instead of a used geo storm he was dying to have. he wanted something "sporty" and ended up getting the storm. after about a month with the storm he told me that he regretted his choice and should of listen to me.

if we're both around here in a couple of years, let me know if your daughter's opinion of the cavalier changes

vinnyny · July 2003

You don't have to wait at all. The Cavalier is already gone. I had it shipped to Hawaii and I think Matson dropped it when loading/unloading the ship. The headlight was broken and the front suspension was a mess. So, I traded it in for a 2003 Mazda Tribute ES. It's really a shame because my daughter loved the Cavalier.

By the way, I traded the Cav for more than I paid for it (and got a great deal on the Trib). I would still buy another Cavalier--Chevy can't be blamed for the work of a careless stevedore.

regfootball · July 2003

gonna go check the lots right now for available cavs......current incentives are 4 grand rebate and 500 conquest....plus GM card......CARS for free? half price cavaliers?

vocus · July 2003

Man, that really sucks about your daughter's Cavalier. How come you didn't get her another Cavalier? I know you didn't get as good a price on the Trib as you did the Cav...

vocus · July 2003

With all the rebates plus your GM points together, you might well be able to score a half price Cavalier, maybe even better. Let us know how the hunt goes.

Chevrolet Cavalier

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