Chevrolet Cavalier

mdaffron · January 2002

And to think GM's new slogan is, "We'll be there." Is that a promise or a threat?

HA HA HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Meade

dindak · January 2002

mdaffron : Is that necessary?

allenorygun : Ahh.. sorry, I didn't realize you had the car already. I still think most of the blame is with the dealer. They should know GM policy and should not have written in the $400 rebate. They also did it in a strange way as when I got my grad rebate 10 years ago, it was taken off the total check I gave them right away. I did not go back to get a rebate from them. Sounds like the dealer did a little bait and pull. VERY BAD DEALER!

My beef with GM would be with the dealerships dishonesty. Maybe try that angle as I don't think GM will give you your $400 is their policy is not to combine it with a GMS discount.

malibu99 · January 2002

dalerships are independednt of GM, they buy the car from GM and sell it. GM has no responsibility. If the salesman used the rebate and wasn't supposed to that is something to fight with him/her not GM.

mdaffron, grow up.

allenorygun · January 2002

I somewhat share the same sentiment from mdaffrom. Here's the new cars I've bought since I had control over the buying decisions or could buy myself. 85 Nissan Pickup, 93 F-150, 97 Ranger,99 Contour, 99 Ranger, 01 Corolla, 01 Ranger, 01 Focus (and I talked my friend into a 2001 Focus also) and now I have this 2002 Cavalier, my first GM experience, and you guys know and if anyone from GM cares, this is MY LAST GM CAR EVER, and it's my MISSION now to take sales away from GM and screw them wherever I can. We're in a worldwide economy now. No longer do I have to be a good American by buying American cars. I can buy a BMW made in North Carolina, or a Toyota made in Freemont, CA or a Nissan Pickup made in Tennessee. I plan to make lots of money and spend it on every other car manufacturer except the one company that screwed me when times were tough, when I just got out of college, was deep in debt and needed their paltry $400 bucks to make my condo payment. How's that for guilt!

allenorygun · January 2002

And I had a 97 Intrepid, which by the way, was a very nice car, except since the windshield was so sloped, here in Oregon the wipers couldn't clear the windshield fast enough. I remember saying, "Chit, where's the road" for like 5 seconds after a big semi just sent 100 gallons of rain water shooting towards my little blue mopar mobile.

joe3891 · January 2002

>one company that screwed me when times were tough, when I just got out of college, was deep in debt and needed their paltry $400 bucks to make my condo payment.<
You were having tough times and you bought a new car,i really can't feel for you.

dindak · January 2002

Not sure why you are here as it sounds like you made up your mind before you started posting. I think you are going over the edge with the "mission". Get a grip.

allenorygun · January 2002

Yes, maybe I do get a little dramatic.... thanks for listening to me, as I do get some satisfaction here being able to express myself, when there's just a deaf ear at the dealership and via GM cust serv. Why yes, a new car i suppose is a luxury. I tried to get a good value here, it's about the cheapest new car I could buy. I shall chill for a while.

malibu99 · January 2002

I'm sure GM is hurting oh so bad because of the "mission", yea a grip is necessary. I can tell you are staright out of college.

allenorygun · January 2002

Yes, dealer called me today, said he would put a $400 check in the mail. He asked if I already put the survey in da mail.... ooops, a little late. So... I guess I'm neutral now on GM, but I appreciate my dealer paying without more hassle. As you can probably tell, I was ready to go for the jugular. Thanks for your advice. Thank you dindak, cause it was that letter than motivated the dealer. Here's what I wrote to get my rebate, to the dealer. "I wrote to Chevrolet in Detroit requesting my rebate. They refused my request. I am now asking that live up to the contract that I signed by refunding the $400 to me. I would never have bought this car if there was any doubt about the applicability of any discount. I relied on your finance person, XXXX to know if this would work or not, so the mistake is yours, not mine. Ill wait for your reply."

dindak · January 2002

Glad your dealer came through for you. Sounds like the letter paid off.

Good luck with the car. Our 99 Cavalier goes back in 5 months (after a 3 yr lease). Not sure what's next, but the dealer said there was a $1000 "upgrade" credit towards a Malibu or Alero. Sounds like a possible plan if it's still on in June.

jpelder · January 2002

Congrats on the $400 victory. Is the Dealer eating this money?

allenorygun · January 2002

Yes, I think dealer is paying it himself. He really didn't think. The day I went in there to pick up my deficient $2100 check, I said, "if I give you guys a perfect survey, will you give me the $400 rebate". The dealer said, "you mean you're gonna ding us if we don't", and I said "well, I'm gonna tell the truth." So, the dealer screwed himself by not realizing he should have done the right thing in the first place. I did slam him on the rebate, so I don't know what he was thinking, except about how he could make $400 bucks of some sheep, that turned out to be a wolf. Woooof.

tomcat630 · January 2002

Now get on with your life, please,

)

malibu99 · January 2002

The upgrade money is true. I believe it is there if you are upgrading and if you are staying with GM and using GMAC again. I got $2002 rebate + $1000 upgrade incentive + $650 loyal GMAC rebate for a total of $3652 off of my new Trailblazer. It should still be there when you go :-) Go for the Malibu, I loved mine and it was a great car but I needed an SUV for my needs up here in NE.
Good luck!

vocus · January 2002

Which car did you trade? The Malibu or the Cavalier?

dindak · January 2002

Not sure about the U.S. but up here the $1000 upgrade credit is just for going from Cavalier/Sunfire to Malibu/Grand Am/Alero. If I get an Alero I will get another C$2000 Olds credit as we already have an Intrigue. Pretty good deal, but if we will need a van/SUV we may not go for it.

malibu99 · January 2002

The lease on my Malibu was up in 3 months so I traded early because the rebates and all covered the remaining payments and also went towards the new Trailblazer. The Cavalier is still on lease, comes off the lease in May 2003, so far it looks like it will be a keeper.

isseyvoo · January 2002

Just took my '92 in for a coolant smell. Turned out the heater hoses were both leaking. Dealer also told me I needed to have my EGR valve service done (an allegedly 2 1/2 hr. job). I thought it was part of the major services at 30K intervals, but I guess not. Anyway, my pockets are now $430 lighter. Did I get hosed, or was this legitimate? Anyone know?

mdaffron · January 2002

YOU got robbed!

Your '92 could not possibly be under warranty anymore. Why are you taking it to the dealer for repairs?! Find a good area shop. You won't pay such a premium!

Meade

joe3891 · January 2002

know the Cavaliers have no real problems.

jpelder · February 2002

Did they replace the EGR valve? It is a $60-80 part, and takes only an hour or less for an experienced mechanic to replace.

At least you can be thankful you have a cavalier...replacing such a part on an import would have been much more expensive. How many miles on your cavalier?

38713 · February 2002

Does anyone know if GM Performance parts makes performance upgrades for the base 2.2L engine? If so, what are they?

tomcat630 · February 2002

GM is planning to come out with 2.2 Ecotec parts. They had a modded one at the SEMA show in the fall.

Also, they are campaigning a Cavalier drag car to go against Civics at import nats.

38713 · February 2002

I know they have the ECOTEC parts, but I was just wondering if they had any for the base 2.2. Like maybe some kind of turbo or anythining to modify the base engine....

holesnipe · February 2002

I've been reading some of the previous posts and somebody keeps insisting that the current Cavalier is a 20 year old design. The first generation J cars were from 82 to 94, the 95's were a total redesign, except for drivetrain which was carried over.

An interesting thought about the first generation J cars...They may possibly be the most mass produced vehicle of all time. I know most people say it would be the model T with 15 million or the VW bug with 20 million, but if you add up all the J cars produced form 1982 to 1994 what's the total? After all, they were all basically the same vehicle whether it was a Cavalier, J2000, Firenza, Cimmaron, (what was the Buick called? can't remember....).

dweezil · February 2002

the versions in Germany, Brazil, Japan, Great Britain etc. etc. etc.The Js were built all over the world. There were 3 million [US] as of the 95 intro and 225,000 to 300,000 every year after, at least through 2000.
Part of the insistence that the "Cavalier is a 20 year old design" is that a lot of people aren't concerned about the credibilty of their statements, but prefer to post misinformation because it makes the story sound better. After all "everyone knows" those millions of Cavaliers out there were all "junk" who needs to be accurate? The R.L. Polk data claims [per the advertising] that "more of them are still on the road than any other small car". I see many many many of them here in the L.A. area from 82 on up. The Polk data is for registrations, which could also mean that one sitting in the weeds is still "registered".

joe3891 · February 2002

Go to j-body.org you will find out what you want to know.

tomcat630 · February 2002

The first gen FWD Ford Escort outsold the GM J cars. There are other "world cars" that beat them, also. When Opel came out with new Astras in the late 80's, the US J model was on it's own.

Also, the Cimmarons and other look alikes didn't sell in big numbers to add much to the global totals.

teo · February 2002

The basic architecture of the current J-body cars have changed little from their 1981 ancestors.

The 1995 redesign was mainly body, interior and safety systems. The platform is still the same dated junk GM should have dumped back in 1986.

The Opel versions of the Cavalier have nothing to do with the made in the USA J-body cars. The current Opel Astra rides on a platform that is 20 years ahead of that of the Cavalier.

Justify your ancient cars all you want, instead of asking GM to bring a truly competitive world class small vehicle that can take it up with the Ford Focus, VW Golf/Jetta and Mazda Protege.

No wonder GM keeps churning them out. Its customer base only wants a mediocre "Good enough" car to go by.

Wake up J-body fans, this car is seriously outdated and out of touch with the market.

malibu99 · February 2002

Thank you for that profesional comment teo, maybe you can tell us how your 2nd Impala is doing, or you can tell us about your ISS when it needs replacing? Entertain us with your superior vehicle teo, tell us about the defects the Impala suffers from.

Guys ignore this guy, he puts down just about any car that does not have a leeping deer on the trunk. Don't get me wrong, I love Chevy , but he new Impala is a disgrace to the Impala heritage, can't wait till Chevy replaces that heap with atrue Impala.

malibu99 · February 2002

Also Mr. Teo, be careful with calling people's cars junk, you don't know the situation of people, you could potentially insult someone who got a hand me down car because tehy are students or because they don't have money, so quit your "superior" attitude with your Impala wanna be, which is really a bad Lumina.

jpelder · February 2002

Teo, please do not take this the wrong way, but could you explain what you mean by outdated?

Perhaps I am underinformed...if so please bring me up to speed. What specifically makes the cavalier platform junk?

I do not buy into the idea that just because something is old, it is bad. It would help your argument to be specific. It may sound cool to repeatedly use phrases like "ancient", or other cars are "20 years" ahead, but it does little to convince those who think.

Again, I am not necessarily saying that is what you are doing, since I know little about the platform issue. But a little information would be helpful to me!

Thanks,

John

ehaase · February 2002

I think that the original J body platform was identical, or very similar, to the platform used for the early 1980's Opel Ascona (now Vectra). I think that the J body platform was originally a world car platform. However, the Opel has been redesigned several times since.

csandste · February 2002

I didn't realize how old the Cav. was until I purchased an Elantra. Much larger inside, more pleasant, more amenities, much more comfortable, etc.

In some ways the Cavalier is nastier than the old Topaz which is was nicely updated than the worst car I've ever owned an 86 Tempo. (I bought the Top. used for my daughter, the other two were new purchases.)

Unlike my other daughter's 1990 Prizm, the Cav. could not be called a pleasant driving experience. It's like sitting in a bucket. But it gets you there.

However, the Cavalier with the 2.2 engine has been fairly reliable. In 75K miles it's gone through a valve cover gasket, an ignition lock module (my fault for hanging too many keys off it) and an alternator. It gets 25+ mpg in mixed driving and burns little if any oil. I don't like automatic transmissions but the four speed was pretty nice. Other than 4000 mile oil changes-- $11.99 at Wal-Mart, get them to substitute the Wal-Mart filter for the standard Fram-- its cost me next to nothing in maintenance. The dealer assures me he's had no trouble backing the original spark plugs out for replacement even at 100K.

If I lose my Hyundai keys with remote and the chip I'm out big bucks-- don't even want to think about it. I get the theft protection discount in the Cav. with a rather cheap system that uses 75 cent Wal-Mart keys. I also pay less for insurance since Cav. parts are readily available and in-expensive. Any boob will be able to fix it and mechanical parts like body parts should be available from a wide variety of sources.

I mentioned the Topaz because that was an example of another crude car that was replaced with a far more sophisticated world car platform. The Contour/Mystique got great reviews, but it's shuttled off this mortal coil (at least in America) while the Cav. motors on. Sometimes that's not all bad. However, would I pay the same or more for a Cavalier when cars like the Elantra are available for the same money???-- no way.

vocus · February 2002

Teo does the same thing on every site. I have seen it on this one, the Jetta board, and a couple other boards. I think everyone is to the point of ignoring him now.

tomcat630 · February 2002

Well, not all Impalas of the past were "memorable". The ones in the late 70's and early 80's were taxicabs, basically.

Back to Cavalier. The interior and the noises to me make the car crude. It sells well, but only with rebates.

When will a new one come that will sell without rebates?

pat · February 2002

Please, let's get beyond the personal comments. If you are unable to respond to a poster respectfully then just ignore the person. No one is going to keep trying to irritate you if you don't provide the encouragement of showing your irritation.

So let's let it go and get our attention back on the Cavalier.

Thanks.

Pat
Host
Sedans Message Board

adc100 · February 2002

I replaced pluge at 65K in my sons Cav. They don't come out easy let me tell you.

teo · February 2002

The crash test scores of the Cavalier tell the whole story on how outdated this platform is:

www.iihs.org

The minute GM stops giving $2500 rebates on the Cavalier just watch those things pile up in dealer lots catching dust.

Tomcat: The Cavalier will sell again in quantities without hefty incentives when the next generation "Delta" Chevy Astra makes it to market in 2004.

GM is hurting in the low end of the car market because its offerings are no longer competitive.

Suggestion: Go and climb inside (and drive) a basic 2002 VW Golf GL 4-door. That car looks, feels and drives like a near luxury sedan, but it costs 50% less. My sister bought a new Golf 2 weeks ago...what a car! The interior, materials, fit and finish, handling, details and the whole cleverness of the design leaves the Cavalier in the dust. 6 Airbags, ABS, adjustable headrests in all seating positions, lap shoulder seats belts for everyone, incredible brakes. If VW can make a WORLD CLASS small car, why can't GM the NUMERO UNO manufacturer in the world?

Bob Lutz: Please bring the Opels and pronto!

dindak · February 2002

Actually guys, I have to agree with Teo to some degree on this "out dated" issue. We have a leased 99 Cavalier and while it's totally dependable and fine, it's simply dated compared with most other small cars on the road. I suspect that the 2.2L Ecotec available this year will make things much better, but unfortunately that's an option and 90% of the Cavaliers have the old 2.2L which is noisy and not particularly fuel efficient in the city. Cavalier was the #1 selling car in Canada for 7 years, but lost the title to Civic 2-3 years ago. It came close to loosing second place this past year also. I think most people agree that there are better small car choice out there. Parts are cheap, but lets face it, most people don't buy a small car for that reason.

In the end, a replacement is overdue and hopefully Bob and the boys will make it a priority. Until then people who want a Cavalier can enjoy cheap cars with big rebates. I know our lease rate is 0.9%. Don't think you will find many cars offering that kind of deal.

teo · February 2002

Well said Dindak.

jpelder · February 2002

I agree totally with you Dindak. However, can't you do alot to update or modernize a car without changing the platform?

Interior materials, fit and finish, engine (as you mentioned)...even ride characteristics can be revised without a change in platform.

Don't misunderstand me, I think it's past time for GM to remake this car, I just am still trying to fully understand this platform issue.

teo · February 2002

Again, the basic architecture of the J-body cars hasn't changed since 1981. You can perform one thousand updates to the car over the same basic platform, change the body, add safety systems, change the interior, tweak the suspension, drop a different engine, etc.

But the car deep down is still a 1981 product. Just think about it. A 2002 Cavalier/Sunfire still ride on a platform that was developed in the late 1970's! Ouch!

vocus · February 2002

No matter how much you tweak a platform, it's still not going to "feel" the same or perform the same in crash tests. The IIHS results are proof of that.

dindak · February 2002

No point in updating the rest of the car if it's sitting on a 10+ year old platform. GM needs a new car all around. That's why improvements to the Cavalier have been small. I also think the name Cavalier should be dumped when the replacement comes so people know it's an all new car.

vocus · February 2002

A company had to go through alot of copyrighting stuff (from what I have heard) and legal stuff to start a new car name. That's one of the reasons Chevy brought back the Malibu and Impala names. They saved alot of money reincarnating the names from the past. Also, they drew in people who, back in the day, had the same car and got intrigued by its name appearing again.

joe3891 · February 2002

now thats a real up to date car,rear drum brakes.

seminole_kev · February 2002

Focus is still one of the quickest 60-0 stops in it's class. Small, FWD cars really need the braking power up front. And you can still get rear discs on the Focus if you want.

I'm still looking forward to see what GM brings out with the new Vauxhall/Opel based Cavalier replacement. Hope they make a 5-door hatch available.

isseyvoo · February 2002

My '92 Cav. has 94K miles on it, and though primitive, I still enjoy driving it at times. I prefer its steering feel to my 2001 Alero with variable asist (though of course the Cav. doesn't corner well at all), and the braking feel is also more linear and predictable than my Alero. The engine burns no oil, and strangely, I am fond of its clackety engine sound. My partner keeps telling me to get rid of it, but I drive it to the train station every day, while the Alero is driven only on weekends. My Cavalier's big failing has been the finish. I was relatively good at keeping the salt washed off it and waxing it a few times a year, but the paint is completely oxidized on the top surfaces. The sides still look okay.

Chevrolet Cavalier

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