Lincoln Town Car

ehardison1 · December 2003

Correction. The space left of the deep well in the town car does not go to the back of the seat it goes the length of the deep part of the trunk

rickiericcardo · December 2003

I see, ehardison1. Thanks a lot! The trunk is not actually that bad then. The shape of the cargo space has been criticized a lot. I know now anyway it swallows a lot, my suitcases and more. Thanks again:).

P.S. I had a quick look at your profile; I hope you get your dream Lincoln one day:). Thanks once more:).

jrguth · December 2003

This might be one to test your ability. 95 TC. The return gas line from the engine, if looking at the gas tank from below, it would be the bottom one of two lines. The other one is the pressure line which feeds the gas to the engine. ( Per my mechanic, who I trust and has had a dragster for years, = knowledge ).

Started smelling gas big time, and he put on lift, and the bottom line is leaking, and looks like it has gotten hot, discolored and protective wrapping of line is crumbling to the touch.

He says the replacement line is like $431 has to run from the tank all the way to the engine.

So the #1 ? is How did line get this hot?
#2 ? anyone ever hear of this problem?

He says he has never seen it on other TC's, or Grand Marquis, or Victoria's, etc.

Thanks in advance for any theories...

Otherwise car has been very good and want to keep car.

jrguth

nvbanker · December 2003

But there are some things that could have caused abnormal heat underneath, however, having no history of the car, location or experience, it does no good to speculate.

However, $431 for the replacement part seems a bit out of line. Is the whole part leaking, or could a portion of it be replaced? We have a parts house here called the "House of Hose", who makes such parts, or parts of parts custom, and saves us a fortune. I know, I haven't seen it, but it may be worth looking into.

ehardison1 · January 2004

Not much happening on the forum. I guess every one has been busy installing their Christmas gift accessories on their Lincoln.I got some new turn signal fluid but it has been too cold to put it in.

nvbanker · January 2004

One reason the Town Car forum is usually pretty quiet, is nobody hates their Town Car, you rarely have trouble with them, and there's not a lot to add on, since they come with most everything.

The most discussions I've seen on this board have been about how much to pay, what about this year or that year, and stories about how well my Town Car serves me, etc. I'm always up for a talk, but am talking to myself a lot around here.

ehardison1 · January 2004

I agree with you about your comments regarding the lack of something to say about the Town Car as it seems to be trouble free,at least mine has been so far. I think the engine is a little noisy while accelerating,but quietens down after cruising speed is attained.
I am a former motorcycle rider and guess I got accustomed to the almost endless chatter on the motorcycle forums.I just got too old to ride and sold my bike last May and haven't regretted it.

omahajim · January 2004

Hello - I am looking to purchase a 2001 TC Sig from a US dealer. I am a US resident. Carfax reports the first registration and owner as being in Quebec, Canada in June 2001. The vehicle was subsequently imported into the US in Feb 2002 (15k miles), and "Vehicle declared to meet US highway safety specifications - Bond released" is shown in March 2002.

After that, it shows being registered as a "private vehicle" in a northern US state (April 2002), and then being traded to the current dealer that has it now (Dec 2003 - 50081 miles - darn! just over the CPO mileage limit). Can't tell if the April 02 registration is to the person that may have imported it into the US, or if it was traded/sold/whatever once immediately inside the US. The dealer says the car has had one US owner (that traded it to them for a new car in Dec 03) but until I actually visit this dealer (across the state line) to see whatever paperwork they have, I won't know.

To make this more challenging, this northern US state keeps the same title number across subsequent owners, so Carfax actually reports *4* owners once in the US ("Title or registration issued - new owner reported"). However, sweet talking a lady on the phone at the state DMV, she tells me that those weren't in fact multiple owners, just re-registrations. She shows no control numbers or whatever terminology that state uses to indicate a change of ownership. Seems odd. Can dealers with the right connections "erase" history in public records?

The VIN is 1LNHM82W91Yxxxxxx. That should tell me it is a "US" car (mfd in Wixom??), but my concern is with the exportation to Canada. Is the vehicle likely to have a KPH or MPH main analog speedo legend (with the opposite on the smaller inner numbers)? And would the digital odo register the mileage in KM or Miles (or would the US/Metric setting in the dash computer toggle that back and forth)?

I don't want to be in a situation where the mileage may not be accurate if it needed to have the switch/conversion done in the computer manually somehow.

Finally, should I be concerned with the possibility of an aftermarket dash panel having been installed due to being a "Canadian" car? I remember seeing a post here detailing a problem with 2001 TC daytime running lights on a previously Canadian car, and that it might have had a dash replacement. Just wondering if that is something to look at and how would I tell.

Any other issues I should be looking at for a previously "Canadian" car now in the US? Other than the normal demo drive/independent mechanic inspection thing with used cars. They are asking US$18995 (50081 miles - assumed).

Thanks in advance for anyone's advice.

hotrodlincoln1 · January 2004

All Town Cars are built at Wixom (which I find very odd since they build the other Panthers at St. Thomas).

I take it the car is a long trip away from you, so the best way to find out about the speedo/odo is to ask the seller.

BTW, is there something special about this car? I think you should be able to get a similar age, similar mileage Town Car cheaper.

nvbanker · January 2004

Agree - seems like a lot of ifs, when these cars are all over the place and good ones abound.

fkoehler · January 2004

OK, been looking to replace my 2000 Pontiac GP, and have started looking at the Mk 8's as they seem like quite a deal. Out here in California, if it isn't a Lexus, BMW, or SUV, no one appears to want it.
I remember renting a Buick LeSabre about 4 years ago, and was blown away with what a luxury car can do. From what I've heard, the Mk 8's and TC's are just that much better.

So, while looking at the Mk 8's, I am seeing some really nice TC's, like the 2000's.

Questions:

1. Why would one purchase a TC over a Mk 8? Reliabilty? Luxury? Looks like the TC's are a little more thirsty than the Mark VIII's, which is worth noting for me.

2. For a 99-00 TC Executive, is there a good ballpark figure, or is Edmunds TMV still the way to go?

Thanks for your help.

hotrodlincoln1 · January 2004

The Town Car is roomier, more simple from a mechanical perspective, and probably has better long-term reliability as a result.

The Mk VIII, OTOH is a bit lighter, faster, and much more sporty. It depends on what matters more to you. Drive both. Buy what you like.

nvbanker · January 2004

The T/C will give you less trouble - less technology to go wrong. Also, will probably give you a tad more mileage, though either will do pretty well on that. The Mark needs Premium, the Town Car doesn't.

It really is about what you want to wear. They are two totally different cars, with few parts shared. The Mark 8 is on a different platform, with Independent Rear Suspension, the InTech engine is fast and the transmission will do a downshift from OD to 1 in one motion. It handles great, especially for as big as it is, and will be a friggin blast to drive. Yet, will ride very well. The Town Car is isolation on wheels, as comfy as they come, rock solid as a machine can be, and will give you 500,000 miles of service is well cared for.

I like Buicks too. But either of these will outperform any Buick there is with 3 cyliders tied behind its back.

fkoehler · January 2004

Thanks for the feedback. I only mentioned the Buick as its the only relative 'luxury' car of an American persuasion I've ridden in, in years. Everything else has been BMW, and Japanese. And even 5 years ago the Buick was quite impressive, even if not really on par with the Mk *'s or TC's.

Now if I can find a TC to test drive that isn't a limo trade-in....

beernut · January 2004

Gad! No comparison! Somehow, these two end up in the same sentence often. I don't know why. I can say that EVERY time I've seen these two head to head, the guy buys the TC. Heck, my dad had an '03 Lesabre and an '03 Grand Marq is his driveway side by side for about three weeks. He and all of his cronies were impressed with the luxury image "stuff" on the Buick (typical for Buick) versus the real-deal luxury of the Merc. - which he bought.

nvbanker · January 2004

There are probably 500 T/Cs on Ebay. Every LM dealer in my town has lots of used T/Cs with low mileage on them. If you're looking for older than 4 years, that may take a little work, but they are definitely out there. Check estate sales. People die with these cars in their garage all the time, hardly used.

beernut · January 2004

Why wait? Start cruising nursing home parking lots! (for cars - not for dates)

nvbanker · January 2004

maybe go for the dates!!! Sooner or later they die.

I can see it now, an obituary reading, "John David Northamerican, died at age 87, leaving behind 2 brothers, his wife Eunice, 3 children and a 97 Cranberry Town Car Executive with 68,000 miles. 555-9865."

reddleg101 · January 2004

Good evening gentlemen.........I picked up my 2000 TC
on 2 Sep 03 and I love it! As the car is warming up, I hear what sounds like a fog horn blaring from under the hood. Would I be correct in assuming it might be a pump for the air bags.

nvbanker · January 2004

You would probably be correct. As these age, they get pretty loud. No fix for that other than a new one, so just enjoy the Titanic blast

ehardison · January 2004

I am glad to hear the explanation for that noise. My town car is a 2003 but down the road if mine made that noise it would scare the heck out of me.

nvbanker · January 2004

It's only loud on the outside, really. Kind of a hum on the inside. Not unbearable.

nvbanker · February 2004

I rented an 04 Signature Friday and drove it around all day. For the life of me, I don't understand why they have quit putting a comfortable and supportive seat in these cars! It made my rump sore and my back ache, and was generally like sitting in an Impala to me! The Impala may have had something over this actually. I was SO glad to get back in my Navigator! What is up with Lincoln? The car runs great, handles superbly, really performs as a cruiser. But I would have to refuse one based on the miserable seat.

beernut · February 2004

When I said we had to quit meeting this way, I didn't mean for you to buy a Chevy! Well, if you must, you must. We'll miss you, but will keep a light on.

How do you know its the seat and not your rump?

nvbanker · February 2004

There's no place for a Chevy in MY garage.... I'm just saying, the seat felt like my neighbor's Impala, which I can't stand. I am wondering why a comfortable seat isn't a priority to Lincoln for this car. BUT, as you say, it could just be my expanding [non-permissible content removed] needs the Navigator sized seat to accomodate it these days......

Thanks for the jab

beernut · February 2004

Nothing else significant to say. Sorry.

nvbanker · February 2004

It's like watching your car turn it's first 100,000 miles, isn't it?

nvbanker · February 2004

I am at a loss to explain the difference. As I posted earlier, I was woefully disappointed in my 04 Town Car Signature rental last Friday, particularly the seat. But also, it had no memory seat functions, no lumbar support, no wood steering wheel. It felt very decontented and cheap.

Now, today, I'm renting an 03 Town Car Signature, and it's an entirely different story! It has all the features the 04 didn't have, the seat is very supportive and comfortable, and even the radio sounds 100% better!!!! Has a wood steering wheel, the 04 Signature didn't.

So, my question is: Have they cheapened the 04 T/Cs that go to Hertz now? Or have they cheapened them all? Or what???? Anybody know?

I would gladly drive this 03, it's a beautiful car. The 04 was so much less of a car.

ehardison · February 2004

I think what you are seeing is that the 03 signature was one step up from the Executive. In 04 the executive is no longer availiable and the signature is actually the executive. My 03 executive has the lumbar support but none of the other things you mention that the 03 signature has.I have no complaints with my 03 executive seats and overall I am pleased with the car.I haven't seen or driven an 04 signature,but it sounds like it is not the car an 03 executive is.

nvbanker · February 2004

I bet that's it exactly, because the 04 Signature was so spartan, it felt like an Executive with no options. So, in 04, what's the step up? Do they still make the Cartier?

beernut · February 2004

Its been replaced by the Ultimate. The last year for it was '03, I think. My first real experience with how crummy the seats have gotten was in an '02 or '03 Cartier. I sat for a while in the '04 Ultimate at the car show last month and was equally unimpressed. But, as you observe, NV, nice car - crappy seat.

ehardison · February 2004

Beernut is correct. The signature is the base model and the Ultimate and Ultimate L are the upscale editions.Sad to see the cartier name gone.

beernut · February 2004

Does that make my Cartier a collector's item? I knew that if I kept it long enough the value would start going up!

gkarg · February 2004

Sadly, beernut - if its a Lincoln - the resale value is going down - no matter what level.

I have an '81 Mark VI Cartier - probably worth about $500. It does need a paint job - badly.

My 2000 LS V6 - LOADED, probably wouldn't get $15,000 at a dealer today. It should be worth much more.

I do think the Lincoln SUV's are holding better than the cars.

nvbanker · February 2004

The Cartier, Signature and Executive levels for the Town Car were easily understood, appealed to the public, and I think they had equity. This Ultimate, Luxury & Convenience packaging program Ford has now may be fine for Fords, and even Mercurys, but Lincoln should stay with some of the things that have worked for them for so many years. I had a Continental Signature, and a Continental Executive in 90 & 92. I think of them fondly still. They made sense to me.

I would not be happy to have a Town Car Ultimate, when you can also get a Grand Marquis Ultimate, and a Monterey Ultimate. Grrrr.

beernut · February 2004

I was joking about the value going up, of course, but my father, who owned my Cartier for years, was sure that if he kept it in the garage for ten years it would magically be worth more after he finally pulled it out than when he drove it in. Its an '88 with a little over 50k on it and although it looks showroom in and out, I drive the damned thing. Back when I believed that everything I owned was worth its weight in gold (like most folks do) I always had a hard time selling things because I asked too much for them. Once I got into my 40's, I figured out that a car is a hunk of metal.. no more, no less, and is only worth what someone will pay you for it. God only knows why these great Lincolns plummet in price like they do. I'll just keep enjoying them until they convince me to quit by offering horrible seats and stupid names - which may be soon, the way its going.

BTW, my first car was an Executive - by Pontiac.

nvbanker · February 2004

Cars were made to be driven, beernut - I'm a firm believer in that. Otherwise they should be in a museum, for many to enjoy. But just storing one for the sake of preserving it doesn't work for me either.

beernut · February 2004

I finally got to Chicago this weekend and drove my dad's new Grand Marquis LS for a few days. Its a very good-looking car in white with light gray leather. BUT ... the seats!! I could hardly tell by look OR feel whether it was leather or vinyl. The seat offered OK support I guess but it is damned hard and not plush at all. I also noticed two other things. First, the suspension is VERY stiff and unforgiving. Every pimple in the road got sent right into the seat and floor - not a quiet ride like I expected. Second, the engine is a monster! It goes from 50 to 80 mph in the wink (or two) of an eye! He says its a 4.6 but I notice that there are three different HP's for the 4.6. Is there an easy way to tell which it is with certainty? Also, is there such a thing as the Police Interceptor nowadays? I'm thinking that a police package might explain the hard ride and the acceleration.

hotrodlincoln1 · February 2004

Bummer about the seats. I haven't been in a new Grand Marquis lately; I didn't know they were getting bad.

03 and 04 Crown Vics (and presumably GM's) have different damping and valving in the shocks. Lots of folks have been complaining about the ride. I think Ford is in the process of coming up with a fix.

Also, there is a handling and performance package available on the Grand Marquis (and Crown Vic) it firms up the ride a bit from the regular. Your dad's car might have this. Count the tailpipes. If there are two, it has HPP. The dual exhaust puts output up to 239 hp and 287 ft-lbs, and includes a 3.27 rear instead of the regular (I forget which is standard at the moment) 2.73 or 3.08.

The Police Interceptor (aka P71) is alive and well. There is no such thing as a police package Grand Marquis, though at least one pd I know of in Canada bought a Monkey for a chief's car. The P71 has the same engine as an HPP or a current Town Car. The suspension is different from either, lacking air bags and having higher spring and shock rates than civilian models. If you think the GM rides hard, you haven't been in a cop car lately. P71's are not "officially" sold new to private individuals. There are ways around this for folks who really want one.

It sounds like your dad has an HPP Grand Marquis.

beernut · February 2004

Just curious.. where do the duals start from, the manifolds or a crossover?

I saw in Consumer Reports that the GM also comes with a 302HP. Where do you find one of those? Is it just an option or does it come on the Ultimate (oh, there's that bad TC word again) or the Marauder?

hotrodlincoln1 · February 2004

is the quad-cam 32v Marauder engine. This is currently available in the Marauder, NOT the GM or Vic. As is fairly typical, Consumer Reports fouled up.

I believe (I'm not sure on this one) that the dual system includes an H-pipe.

beernut · February 2004

........as much as they are just not too clear about which is which. They lump the Marauder in with all other models of GM and list the 302hp in there with it.

Thanks.

gmills1 · February 2004

We've recently been approached about purchasing a 2000 Cartier w/39,000 miles from our in-laws who are original owners. The price they mentioned out was about $16,000, which is in range for private party sales depending on Edmunds/KBB with edmunds a little less. The car is in pristine condition. My question is is this a fair price? Listed retail prices in the Wash. DC area for 2000 Cartiers/TCs run about $20,000 (but Edmunds says retail for this car should be 17,500) While the price seems fair, I'm just a little worried about the used car market in general and thusly what is a legitimate price on such a car. Thanks.

beernut · March 2004

If you are old enough to recognize the above quote, you're old enough to appreciate the Cartier. BUT.....

You say you are worried about the used car market in general. In what way? What is your worry? It sounds like a beautiful car for a good price.

Most important question: Does a TC fit your lifestyle so much that you were thinking about getting one anyway or have you been presented with a reasonable deal on a beautiful car that is well maintained, never been beaten and is currently owned by someone who doesn't really want to let it go and would like to keep it in the family and hate to see anyone else have it and you want to oblige them and feel like you would be doing them a favor?

The above run-on sentence was on purpose to illustrate how family car deals can get a complicated. Other things to consider - are there siblings who (completely out of character for them, I'm sure) will [non-permissible content removed] that you got favored with a good deal? Also, who will you complain to when the radio quits during your first trip?

Having said all that, I'd buy it.

pat · March 2004

Consumers' Most Wanted Vehicles for 2004 Survey is posted and ready for your input!

hotrodlincoln1 · March 2004

on the Town Car board.

I went to an auto show here in Atlanta over the weekend and looked at/sat in the two Town Cars they had (along with a lot of other cars and trucks). One was an Ultimate, and the other was a Signature. The sticker prices were quite different, and the wheels were slightly different, but other than that I couldn't tell a difference. Where does the extra $8000 in sticker price come from?

BTW, I got to see all the current production Panthers and the Marauder is my favorite.

nvbanker · March 2004

It's tough to "see" the difference between the Signature and the Ultimate - but driving rentals of each recently, I could sure "feel" the difference. The Ultimate has the wood steering wheel and much much better seats in it. It made all the difference. I couldn't wait to turn the Signature back in, and would have bought the Ultimate, had I needed one. There's that much difference in the feel.

beernut · March 2004

Any difference in the power trains or suspensions? I guess what I'm really asking is, any difference in the ride or performance? Also, does the "L" have the same chassis, wheel base, drive train etc?

If I were buying a new to two year old TC, I'm sure I would get a Cartier or Ultimate but I've always been tempted to get an "L". Any opinions on that?

nvbanker · March 2004

Power trains are the same. Suspension too, I believe. The Cartier & L have a longer wheelbase to accomodate the extra 5 inches in the back seat, and thusly handle differently, but you get used to the Limo feel after a while.

beernut · March 2004

Way back in '90, my wife and I started an in-home day-care business and had four kid's car-seats strapped in our Nova. Ouch! We needed something bigger and decided to find a used van or something for around $10K. I found myself at Fall Carlisle with $10K cash in my pocket ready to buy when I crossed paths with a guy selling two limos, one Cad and one TC, for ..... $10K each, and they seated SEVEN! Well, the Cad was junk, but the TC was SWEET (high mileage, though). I bought the TC and called my wife on this huge thing that was like a telephone except it had no wires hooked to it - it was sort of portable but came in a really big case with a shoulder strap and hurt your back if you had to lug it around for too long. Anyway, she said that if I brought a limo home to her, she would not drive it and I would never be able to have more children.

The guy who sold it to me, who had children of his own, understood my situation, gave me my cash back and bought me a beer.

There you go.

Lincoln Town Car

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