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Lincoln Town Car

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  • cleatercleater Member Posts: 3
    i leased a new tc,in aug/03/for 3 yrs & at a staggering price of 450.00 per mo,plus i traded my beautiful 99 marquis,with only 19,280 miles(what a fool)the marquis was selling for 8500.00 plus my payments adds up to 24280.00,plus if i purchase the car ,after (3)yrs,i can buy for 16900.00 not counting sales tax,so thats well over 40,000.00 when they ar selling lacally for 2999.00new(no loaded)so the moral of this story is ,simply ,dont let the looks of a car sweep you off ur/feet & ur/walet.ps; the car rides & handles like a dream,however ,i'm only getting 19.2mpg,but they say ,thats because i have only 5712.00 miles,i would appreciate ur/thought & advice""cap""
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    I don't know what you're complaining about! I pay $750/month for my 03 Navigator, and get 12.5 MPG! As much as I love the truck, I'm considering a sedan next time just because of the gas. Sounds like your deal was fair to me. Interest for financing the car adds to the price, you know. It is a $40,000 car.
  • ehardisonehardison Member Posts: 23
    I just returned from a 1100 mile trip in my 2003 town car and averaged abou 24mpg. That 19mpg sounds about right for combination driving. I think that is good mileage for a heavy car with a V8 engine. I haven't seen a new town car for less than 33,000 here but your lease sounds pretty good,it seems you did not get a good price for your Marquis with that low mileage. Well,can't change the past ,just enjoy the present.
  • beernutbeernut Member Posts: 329
    Its been many years since I've experienced an old-fashioned, white-knuckled drag race, but the big, glitzy Toyota caved just before curve #1 (although he was gaining on me there at the end).

    2 1/2 gallons of fuel can provide a lot of kicks.
  • ehardisonehardison Member Posts: 23
    Haven't seen any posts for awhile and just wondering what is going on. I just returned from a 1200 mile trip im my 2003 town car and as usual no problems,25mpg and a smooth ride.
    Love that car.Hope you all have a great 4th of July.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    It's difficult to keep a thread alive when there's not much to dispute, nor problems to report or argue over. But we're still here :)
  • ehardisonehardison Member Posts: 23
    Good to hear from you. It seems like we could get something going here. Sure don't want it to be politics.
    I am thinking about getting a pick up truck. Any ideas ? I doubt if I will get a new one as I won't use it for any serious work. I have had a couple of trucks but haven't had one for a few years. I like the Ford and the Nissan but think most trucks are good.
    If any one has one for sale ,I might be interested.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Big truck or small truck? Believe it or not, I have opinions that I'm usually happy to share...:)
  • ehardisonehardison Member Posts: 23
    I will probably get a small truck.However I like the regular cab F-150.I don't need or want an extended cab,just a plain truck to haul some garbage and brush in occasionally.
  • beernutbeernut Member Posts: 329
    July 1 was my Ranger's fifth birthday. I love it. Its been one of the best vehicles I've owned and it does the job for me every day - which includes commuting to work and light hauling. Its easy to manuver and park and OK on gas for a truck (22 highway). I've wished for large truck bed space maybe once in five years.

    If a small truck meets your need, get an extended cab with opening back doors. You need someplace to put stuff and somewhere for your elbow to go when you swing your arm around your tight-squeeze. The longer wheel base of the extended cab helps the otherwise rough ride A LOT as does 2WD. 4WD is up to you, I don't need it and don't like it.

    Also, get a small six instead of the anemic four or the loud, thirsty big six.
  • ehardisonehardison Member Posts: 23
    I appreciate the information.I have looked at a Ford 150 V6,manual transmission with 120,000 miles for $6,000. Clean truck but don't want the manual transmission.Looked at a Chev Silverado with 80,000,5.7 liter V8 loaded.It is a 93 but clean. Needs minor body work. Price is $4,000.
    Haven't found a nice Ranger or other small truck yet. I am in no hurry and will keep looking.
  • beernutbeernut Member Posts: 329
    Well, you're in the Twilight Zone of choices there.

    120k miles? Yikes! Any long trips planned? Wife or kids gonna drive it? I'd be cautious. A thorough engine exam is called for - tranny too. A V6 stick F150 was likely a work truck. If so, that's a lot of hard miles.

    The Silverado's 5.7 sucks gas worse than most but its a nice truck and probably equipped well. That's the one I'd choose. You can tow, cruise at 100 and generally haul a**! But - do you need to feed all that HP and torque all the time just for occasional light duty?

    There are lots of nice, clean Rangers out there but .... everybody that ownes one thinks they're made of gold. If you see one that's cheap, you can bet it's been beat. If you see "like new" with no price posted, skip that ad and go buy a new one.

    How about a '91 Chev 1500 Z71, 5.7, Super Cab stick, 165k for $3000? Needs paint.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Seeing that we're supposed to be talking about Town Cars here, and that we have a whole board that is able to be a lot more helpful with this decision than this Town Car discussion, may I suggest that this conversation continue on our Pickups board?

    :)
  • ehardisonehardison Member Posts: 23
    Got the message and I agree. Just seems like I started this to just get some conversation going . OK, who wants to talk about Town Cars?
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    understood - no problem!
  • limolimo Member Posts: 20
    We recently had a very puzzling problem with one of our long door cars that we've never seen or heard of before. This car had a flat, so the driver installed the spare and went on his way, but within a day or two (Yes, we had the flat repaired and put it back in the trunk) the car suddenly would not go over thirty miles per hour!! Uh-Oh, now what? Our regular shop just shook their heads and suggested we change the rear wheel ABS sensors. We gave them the go ahead to order the parts, but I mentioned this peculiar behavior to our tire man, who smiled indulgently at me (Don't you just hate it when they do things like that?) and said that we had two different size tires on the same axle and that was the cause of the problem. We re-installed the original tire and the problem went away immediately. The bizarre part was that we had to turn off the traction control button in the glove box every time we started the engine to eliminate the 30 mph barrier. All the miles we drive, all the cars we own and have owned, many with ABS and traction control, all the times we've played mix and match with tires, we never saw this before. Anybody else have this experience?
  • ehaaseehaase Member Posts: 328
    Automotive News is reporting today that the replacements for both the Lincoln LS and Town Car will be based upon the Ford Five Hundred.

    The Lincoln LS replacement is code named D385, and the Town Car replacement, using a stretched wheelbase, is code named E386.

    Both cars will be built in Atlanta. The Atlanta plant will also produce the Five Hundred. The Lincoln Zephyr may also be produced in Atlanta.

    Obviously, Lincoln is moving to FWD/AWD, not RWD, as Cadillac and Chrysler are doing.

    The article said nothing about what engines the cars would use.

    The LS replacement will debut in July 2007 as a 2008 model, while the Town Car replacement will debut in January 2008 as a 2009 model. Ford may continue the Town Car on the Panther platform, and the new sedans may get new names.

    The future of the Wixom plant is uncertain.

    I believe that this is bad news for the future of Lincoln. I predict that Lincoln/Mercury will be dead within 10 years. I cannot see boring V6 FWD sedans being the savior of Lincoln. Ford should have designed new Lincoln sedans on the DEW98 platform.
  • beernutbeernut Member Posts: 329
    Six messages on trucks to help out a fellow TC owner doesn't seem like a lot to me, but your wish is our command.

    Anyway, my '88 TC has developed a water leak at the top of the windshield. It has the old fashioned chrome strip/retainer clip trim around it which I've always had trouble not screwing up in the past. Is there a magic tool or product nowadays that I should know about to fix this myself or should I just take it to a glass bandit and pay?
  • beernutbeernut Member Posts: 329
    Is message 1095 indicating that the TC will be FWD by 2009?

    Chrysler's return to RWD was not by accident. Does Bill Jr. read the newspaper much?
  • ehaaseehaase Member Posts: 328
    Yes, the Town Car will be FWD by 2009.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Way to wake up this topic, ehaase. I don't like the sound of this at all. ANT - can you confirm any of this dreadful news about Lincoln?
  • beernutbeernut Member Posts: 329
    Nothing really to say. Just wanted to be Message 1100!
  • ehardisonehardison Member Posts: 23
    Sur hope my 2003 town car will last a long long time as I don't think I would buy a FWD lincoln. Oh well I am 69 so maybe it will last twenty more years as I will quit driving then.

    I did buy the Silverado truck and am well pleased with it.
  • hotrodlincoln1hotrodlincoln1 Member Posts: 62
    This is really bad news. It looks like I'm driving my last Town Car.
  • beernutbeernut Member Posts: 329
    Don't start drinking heavily yet. 2009 is a long way off.

    Here's what we do. Buy 2008 RWD models and drive them for five years. That will take us to 2013. If all those 60's folk/rock singers were wrong and we're still alive by then, AND Cadillac takes one of Daimlers' smart pills and reintroduces the RWD AND Bill takes some time away from polishing his Mustang long enough to notice that he still has new 2009 TC's on the dealer lots, viola! - New, RWD TC's for 2014!!!
  • izaclown1izaclown1 Member Posts: 118
    I thinks to myself.... wait until the news come out and get one of the last RWDs and drive it until the flying 'cars' are available. By then, I will be ready to trade my 2000 TC.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    That is so funny. When I was in the 2nd grade, I think, and that would have been about, uh..... 1960, flying cars were just around the corner....we talked about it all the time.

    Yesterday, at a restaurant, I saw the prettiest Town Car I've ever set eyes on. It was new, and was a two-tone cream color, lighter on the top, with a darker strip down low in the rocker panel area. Man, they have grown on me in this new style. I could drive one just like that if they put an Air Conditioner fan in them again. That's my only real beef with the post 98 models.

    I don't mind FWD if the engine is putting out 100 HP like my Caddys did, but anything over 200 hp, and the torque steer effect turns me off too much. I think you can have either FWD and a small engine, or lots of hp. Not both. I drove FWD Cadillacs in the 80's, and didn't mind them, then I switched to Lincolns in the 90's because of quality issues with the Caddy's. When Caddy's got pretty good again, they had 300 hp going through those front wheels, and I hate that. No matter how balanced it is, if you romp on it, any difference in road surface will jerk the wheel away from you. That has put Caddy out of the market for me ever since. If Lincoln goes that way, I could be moving on to Jaguar or Lexus.
  • ehaaseehaase Member Posts: 328
    I don't think that torque steer would be a problem with an AWD Lincoln. I am sure that the cars will be very nice. Based upon the Five Hundred I saw two weeks ago, these new Lincolns will have huge interiors. But AWD luxury cars, like the Volvo S80 and Audi A6 and A8, still do not sell as well as RWD Mercedes, Lexuses, and BMW's. Ford is taking a big risk here. These new AWD Lincolns will probably be as heavy or heavier than the current cars and not significantly more fuel efficient. I think that Ford is just trying to get its money's worth out of the expensive Five Hundred platform.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    I agree, ehasse. AWD should clear up any torque steer issues, and if it drives well, I'm ok with that. But heavier, they shall be indeed.
  • beernutbeernut Member Posts: 329
    The Taurus has been out to pasture for a few years as the rental fleet beast of burden instead of trying to appeal to the private owner. I think the FWD platform for the TC signals Ford's intent to do the same with the TC by packaging the powertrain in such a fashion to more easily mass produce and drop them in to as many applications as possible without needing to change anything - specifically stretch applications, hearses, etc.

    Economically, FWD makes the most sense for this but the private TC owner and appreciator is being ignored in favor of the big money mass-market.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    I suppose it does make economical sense, but not if nobody will buy the damn things. Town Car customers are, 1) loyal to the current genre of car, and even though they think we are dying off, and maybe we are, we are dying off SLOWLY and we have money to spend until we do. B), the limo, livery, & fleet customers, who buy the majority of Town Cars won't likely find the durability in a FWD platform. Frankly, nobody has done that well yet.
  • limolimo Member Posts: 20
    Yikes! If FOMOCO really does go to fwd, I'm gonna quit this limo business for good. When I ran Ambiance Limo in the mid 80's, we had fwd Caddys and rwd TCs in the fleet. The drivers preferred the TCs, clients liked the Caddys because they had a flat floor in the rear. I glommed a TC for myself, as I grew up on v8 front engines with rwd drivetrains. When you look around at the current "luxury" car offerings, all but Caddy have rwd or awd. My competitions drivers tell me the Caddys are "squirelly" in the rain, but I think that's because the owner buys the cheapest tires he can find instead of Pirellis or Michelin rain tread tires.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    You bring up a good question, LIMO - I guess Chrysler may take up the limo market if Lincoln gives it up. Or maybe Caddy will take it back, but I don't think the Sigma is up to stretching. Perhaps the 300C is....or maybe Daimler will be the limo of choice with Mercedes, that's not new to them..... Sure hate to see Ford abandon this very profitable segment, but I guess Bill knows what he's doing. Anyway, the current Town Car still has a contract through 2009, I think. Perhaps by then, Bill will have enough money to reinvent the Panther cars.
  • limolimo Member Posts: 20
  • limolimo Member Posts: 20
    I haven't actually seen one myself yet, but some of the coach builders are advertising Chrysler stretches on the 300C. There is a Chrysler/Jeep dealer literally around the corner from us and the all black 300C, with the Hemi engine is whispering verrrry seductively to me. Even the cops thought it make a great police car. If Chrysler adds three inches to the wheelbase to increase rear leg room, they could sell these things by the gross to the livery industry.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    I expect that will happen just like you say...
  • 96signature96signature Member Posts: 3
    I bought my '96 Signature Town Car about a year ago, and I love it more than any car I've ever had! When I bought it, I was told it was a "Touring Edition." The 16" wheels are different from what I've seen on other TCs, and it does have a very firm ride and tight handling (well, for a Town Car!). It also has a moonroof, heated seats, JBL sound, and dual exhaust, all of which are supposedly part of the Touring package. Any one have any info on this? Did this package exist, or was I being conned when I bought it? I love the car no matter what, but I can't imagine too many Town Car buyers wanting one that rides like this. Boy, is it fun leaving Bimmers in the dust on the twisty backroads!
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Town Cars are surprisingly nimble handling for their size and luxury anyway. There was a Touring Edition in 98 that I'm aware of - I didn't think it was available until then, but I could be wrong I guess. I consider myself an expert on that era of Town Cars but I'm not infallible either. Those Town Cars had dual exhaust anyway, and the Signature had everything else you have described in your post. You may have been conned, but you got a great car anyway. I wouldn't feel cheated.
  • limolimo Member Posts: 20
    We have a '97 Sig Touring Edition we use every day in the service. Later models say "Touring Edition" on the sail panel by the model name, but the 96-97 versions did not have this logo. Our '97 has the JBL sound, duals, moonroof and firmer ride of the '96, but lacks heated seats. However, and this is the most visible tip off that the '97 is a Touring version, are the chrome wheels. These wheels were not available on other models, and the touring edition was not offered in Exec or Cartier trim levels.
    Oh yeah, it's a lot of fun pushing a BMW or Benz through the windy country roads we have here. You can see the driver checking his mirror after what he thinks was a bit of road guaranteed to make the Lincoln on his tail give up, but I'll frequently flash the lights at him to make him move along or get out of the way. This particular car is very dignified looking with its dark blue finish, but it will run with the best of them, and leave most of them in its wake. 'Course, you don't do this with clients on board!
  • w0bymagnusw0bymagnus Member Posts: 19
    Does anyone know the difference between the Town Car and the Crown Vic suspension? Someone is telling me that if I want a Town Car why not just go home $20,000 richer and just get a Crown Vic. But I believe the Town Car has a much softer ride?

    Thanks!
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    It varies from year to year, but the Town Car has a much nicer ride, is much quieter and has an air suspension in the back for load leveling. Is that plus all the luxury features in the Town car worth the extra money? That's your problem to decide for yourself. It is for me.
  • 96signature96signature Member Posts: 3
    limo-
    So you're saying the Touring was only offered the last 2 years of the '90-'97 body style? Maybe I don't have the Touring Edition, because I don't have the chrome rims. Like I said, the wheels I have are different from what I've seen on on other Signatures. Mine have 16 v-shaped openings around the outside, and a flat cap that goes over the lug nuts (wish I could post a picture of 'em here!). All the other Signatures I've seen have a more "sculptured" wheel, and the lug cap has some black in it; this has the plain Lincoln star embossed into it, with no color. Anyone else here have these rims?

    Nonetheless, it's STILL the best car I've ever owned! I had 3 Grand Marquis' previous to this, and I enjoyed them. But there is SOMETHING about a Town Car, and maybe it's just in my own mind, but they are worth the extra $ over and above a Crown Vic or GM. BTW, mine is black with the gray lower 2-tone, and black leather interior (again, something else I haven't seen in any other Signature. Mark VIIIs yes, but not in a TC. Good thing I live where the sun never shines!)
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Perhaps you have a morphodite? I found a mule for sale once, that was a display car, it had leather front seats, and cloth back seats, and a lot of other wierd combinations that were never made in production......
  • limolimo Member Posts: 20
    96signature: I've seen the wheels you describe, but like the chrome wheels on my '97, they're few and far between. This '97 doesn't ride like all the rest of our TCs, but it's great for running down "Sports" sedans made offshore. Now, about the mules. Cadillac made two versions of their limousine for many years. One was the standard model, with velour seats in both front and back, while the "Formal" limo had leather front seats and velour back seats. It also had a divider window that went up and down with electric power until the 1977 model, when they switched to a horizontal, manually operated divider.1 1/2 years ago, I saw and drove a one-off Lincoln LS, with a turbocharged V8 and five speed manual tranny. When you let the clutch up on it, the scenery got blurrrrry right away! Factory guys brought it to a limo association meeting, so I'm sure it wasn't something somebody cobbled together just to kill hot rod Beemers.
  • retireeretiree Member Posts: 1
    I'm looking at a 2000 TC Sig. model with 40,000 miles. I'm a little apprehensive because of the experience I've had with the '93 TC Exec that I now own. It has 157,000 miles on it. Over the past couple of years, I have: replaced the signal - wiper control switch, cleaned the EGR ports (they're plugged again), replaced the air bags and compressor, replaced the alternator and observed the deterioration of the valve guide seals (oil mileage is down to about 500 miles/quart). Can anyone comment about the mechanical integrity of the 2000 TC? Are there any common failure modes? I wonder particularly if it is a normal occurrence for the valve guide seals on the TC engine to go at a mileage level of 100,000 - 120,000.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    some maintenance at 150,000 miles on a Town Car. That's kind of the goal to get to before you may have to start putting some money into them. I've seen the engines go for 300,000 miles before needing a tear down, I've seen some fail earlier, depending upon how much care they have had and oil changes, etc. The engines are extremely reliable.

    Weaknesses of the 2000 T/C are few. Among them though are some cosmetic issues with peeling on the instrument panel and dash in sunny and hot climates, and a deterioration of the paint under the license plate under the same conditions. Sometimes, an oil light may light for no good reason. The seat back covers tend to be too easy to pull off if an energetic kid gets hold of them.

    Mechanically, they are as sound as ever. How many miles are on this 2000? You should be able to get 150,000 out of this one too, if it's been well maintained. No other luxury car will cost you less to own, on the whole.
  • cm779cm779 Member Posts: 2
    My 99 TC A/C blower seems to be really weak. I have to turn off two of the other vents in order to get air on my face. I live in Tx. and the Summer's here as you know are really HOT. If I get in my car in the heat of the day I never cool off and my back is sweating.

    We have had serveral TC's in the past and the A/C's have been awesome.

    Does anyone know if it is possible to replace my A/C Blower system with a larger one or is there anything I else I could do to help the situation without selling my car?
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    If you go back a few hundred posts, you'll seem me complaining about this problem multiple times, in hopes of getting Ford's attention - because if they hadn't forgotten to put a fan in the Town Car, I'd have one today. Your assessment is exactly right, and for those of us who live in hot climates, it just plain is unacceptable. The change occurred in 98 with the new design. To my knowledge, it has not yet been rectified. It seems, that only those of us who live in southern states seem to notice - but I have homes in both Florida and Nevada, and I NOTICE!! As do you.

    I finally got an employee of Ford to admit that they are aware of the issue. For whatever reason, the HVAC engineer when this car was redesigned, deemed it to be adequate, when in reality, other than in Canada, it's not. But the fix is also evidently a lot more complicated than putting a larger or faster fan in. It would require a major engineering change somehow, and the complaints are fairly limited, so......no change. But they are losing sales to people like me. It is so unlike Ford to screw this up. Their Air is usually powerful and cold, as it is in all of my other Ford products. So for now, the Town Car is off my list. I continue to check them each summer to see if the new model has an Air Conditioner....not so far. It's a real shame. There is no fix that I'm aware of other than to block off the vents going to the rear seats - which is what causes the problem. The fan size wasn't calibrated for that vent, which was evidently added as a last minute correction of an oversight - and somebody thought it would still be "ok". As I was sweating in my 00 Town Car the first summer, I realized I had a problem. I traded the car. It's your call.
  • cm779cm779 Member Posts: 2
    Thanks for the reply. I am truly disappointed in Ford. The TC should be one of their flagship automobiles and this should not be an issue. My local dealer wants to do test yada yada. No thank you. I am aware that this is not an isolated problem. There is also another post that the '03 TC has the same issue. I have been looking at Deville's but to me they do not have the same ride and comfort and I do not want to have to worry about the oil consumption with the Northstar engine.

    I think there should be a technical service bulletin concerning this and a fix provided from Ford!

    Thanks again.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    So do I!!! At least they should do the redesign necessary to fix it going forward. I guess not enough of us either notice it, or were used to Ford Factory Air that you could depend on to blow your hair messy. The Air in my Navigator, Mountaineer, Explorer, Ranger and all previous Ford products has always been the best - with one exception, I had a Sable with a similar issue, but I think it was a stuck blend door in that one, because others didn't do it. A/C was something I never checked in a Ford when I bought it - but after the Town Car, I do now. As far as I have been able to discern, the Town Car is the only affected model and I agree, this is egregious for them to continue to make them this way. Even the Grand Marquis has strong wind in it. Go figure! I've been told that the Town Car is not designed for "Retail Customers" anymore, it's designed for Livery service primarily, and the retail sales are secondary now. Not sure how that all came about, but since Lincoln dropped the poorly selling Continental, and the LS has never been marketed as a flagship car, what exactly is their main car now then?

    Well, Fall is coming, and you'll be fine in winter. By next June, you may want to trade.
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