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Volvo S40
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Comments
Do not be upset with the turning radius. It's just as good (or bad, whatever your general perception of life is) as any modern leading brands of the same size.
See my posting ##1820 on S60 board.
But I do love the S40 w/o sport suspension. It just need to include the charcoal filter for American-spec cars. As the AWD V50 tests all proved to you that the comfy non-sport suspension equipped w/ the optional 17"s still handles great.
The 5-cyl's turbo lag is worse than Subaru's 4-cyl turbo, though, per C&D.
I really like the a4, but i agree that it's quite underpowered compared to what's available now.
I am surprised the TSX rated so highly for its ride comfort, as i've never been too impressed by acuras in this area. But people have diferent ideas of what ride comort is.
I didn't realize there was no charcoal filter. I wonder why not?
I'm pretty interested in the s40 but not looking to buy exactly now.
dave
The TSX is a thoroughly competent car due do a suspension with longer travel than the Mazda6 but tauter, which means it'll almost never run out of travel even when cornering hard over bumps. As far as the steering being not communicative, you're hot date in the passenger seat won't know when you impress her going through challenging roads.
"I didn't realize there was no charcoal filter. I wonder why not?"
I believe Americans don't carpool much, & hence most of the time don't need anything larger than an S40. So in order to sell the other Volvo's, they might as well ruin the S40 here by making it the only model not available w/ the auto-recirculate charcoal filter.
The S40 has a filter, it lacks the IAQS.
IAQS is a monitoring system that will put the car into recirculate mode if the sensor detects carbon monoxide or other unpleasant gases entering the cabin in sufficent quantity to do harm.
This is different from the filter that was designed to remove dust, pollen and smoke from the air entering the cabin.
So, americans don't like big vehicles, and are adamant about charcoal filters?
These broad shoulders make the car look tough for side protection & also remind you of the good old 200-series from Volvo's glory days. But unlike the good'o 200-series, these newer Volvo's modern tapered rear width ruins the wide rear view thru your inside rear view mirrors. & that's also why I can't stand any wagon or hatch except the exceptionally designed '92-95 Civic 3-dr.
Volvo concept car's see-thru A-pillar is a great idea for accident prevention. But Volvo's blind-spot alarm isn't really necessary. That warning system does not tell you the whole picture of the size or movement of the obstacle. The driver-side mirror of a foreign-spec car these days has the outer edge curve outward to cover the blind spot completely!
So, americans don't like big vehicles, and are adamant about charcoal filters?”
I should have said "big sedans", 'cause Americans love Hummers.
My guess is that Volvo realized they have to ruin the S40 by the time they introduced the car in America 'cause the S60 has no advantage over the the S40 -- room? safety? price? ride? steering? style? parking ease? etc.
Or maybe foreign countries are too crowded that about the only Volvo people are willing to buy is the small-exterior S40, so Volvo better include the charcoal filter to attract all the buyers they can.
The pollen filter, which is also found in the Civic/Accord/TSX/CRV, filters out solid particles including the smelly diesel soot. It is most likely done by an electrostatic ionizer.
Gaseous smell needs charcoal to absorb away. Mercedes has a charcoal switch w/ a timer, 'cause the charcoal life gets used up too soon if you keep it on all the time.
Volvo's customer service told me that if the recirculate button has both "M" & "A"(auto recirculate) on it, then it has a charcoal filter.
Here's why, according to BMW, as the CO & HC detector senses these pollutants, it will switch to recirculate mode automatically for up to several minutes, then the charcoal filter gets to turn on to suck out these pollutants already entered the car.
Volvo is trying to grab sales away from BMW, audi, etc. If it though the s40 would kill the s60, they'd either not ship the s40 here or withdraw the s60. No sense in shipping a crippled car here.
90% of buyers don't even know what a charcoal filter is.
The entire idea is nonsensical.
dave
One big reason I recommended most people the S40 T5 over the S60 & even the 325i is the throne-like driving position. It makes you feel like a king when you can relax your left elbow resting on the high door armrest even when you sit high. & at the same time your left hand is holding a 9-o'clock steering wheel spoke w/ turn signal stalk w/in the reach of your index finger & the cruise buttons just a thumb away. So your right hand doesn't have to touch the steering wheel 100% of the time, which means you can either leave it on the shifter while operating the stereo/HVAC the same time, or simply just busy working on your hot date! ;-)
I do hate the American-spec S40's manual/cloth seat's lack of adjustment features on the passenger side. Can't impress your hot date with it!
"90% of buyers don't even know what a charcoal filter is."
Charcoal filter used to be a $1000(or $500) option on the Mercedes S-class. The non-turbo S40 is already almost $5000 more expensive than a similarly equipped TSX & hence belongs to the premium compact class.
They were probably confused about the IAQS system.
The giveaway on the IAQS is the M and A buttons on the recirc switch.
Honestly, most of our consumers don't know what IAQS is or could almost care less about it.
The fact that its not offered on the S40 hasn't cost us any sales that I'm aware of.
Heck, we don't outfit the S40's w/ half of whats available just due to price concerns.
I have included the option on the S40 AWD that I have on order.
For $10 more per month, this is what we get on the S60 2.5T with premium and sport packages compared to a S40 2.4 with climate and premium package.
Low pressure turbo engine
Automatic transmission
17" wheels
Sun roof
Fog lights
Bi xénon headlamps
Speed sensitive steering
Trip computer
Wood trim
Air outlets to rear passengers in B pillars
Power passenger seat
Auto dimming rear view mirror
Homelink
We prefer the outside look of the S40 but prefer the interior of the S60. Since we will be inside the car and not looking at it from outside, the choice was easy.
I have an XC90 and previously owned 2 S70 (a T and a T5) an 850 and a 740 turbo, so I am not too concerned about the turning radius.
The S40 sure looks good tough.
Volvo brochure....12.6 cf
Which is correct?
Thanks.
S40 2.4
S40 T5
Mazda3 2.3
Thanks
1. S40 T5 with base suspension (sport package gives much stiffer ride with minimal gain in handling)
2. Mazda3 2.3 (simply has a smoother, more refined engine and significantly less expensive than base S40)
3. S40 2.4 (when 20k Mazdas and Honda Accords have equal or better acceleration and definitely better NVH characteristics, there is a problem here. Volvo has some work to do on the base engine, especially when the 2.5T is much more powerful and refined for only a couple grand more. The turbo also has no fuel economy penalty due to taller overall gearing)
-S40 2.4: nice but slow and loud engine noise.
-Mazda3 2.3: cheap fun car, but the ride and again cheap material...
-S40 T5 with regular suspension: nice, fast and reasonable price.
I bought the 2005 S40 T5 auto and still happy with it.
when looking at the 3 (S40, S40T, Mazda 3) it would be hard not to see the value in the Mazda, using 42% of the same basic components and what is a proven engine and tranny. Maintenance should be less expensive as well, although insurance will be higher, so this may offset.
That said, Volvo has a broader sense of "appeal" to more people for more things. I know this is not a popular way to bring in a discussion about merits of a vehicle...but I think the Volvo wins in class and market appeal. You won't be driving a car considered by many to be another "civic" in mazda clothing. Volvos have a certain upscale nature, it is that tried and true European heritage. They also are known for safety...and my guess is that at least some of the extra money for the Volvo has gone to better safety engineering.
YMMV - but I would rather own the S40 than the Mazda 3, unless the difference were so great as to make the decision foolish.
I still recall when I bought my used BMW 318ti - it was nothing special, a 6-year old stripper with low miles and steel wheels. I couldn't qualify at the time for a new loan on a VW Jetta, so I bought a used car that I could get qualified for...
Long story short, my co-worker bought a new Jetta (very much like the one I wanted) within a week of me getting my BMW. The upper management made almost daily comments to me about my car, "nice ride" "looking good" "like that little beemer" etc - none of them even noticed that he had bought a new car...
It was an eye opener about how people think. It was even more obvious when I left that job and started working in non profits...suddenly my BMW was a liability. I was "making too much money" and "shoving my wealth" in our clients faces...funny, the car was worth about $7k at the time, was 8 years old and still had steel wheels, a bad AC unit, and cloth seats...go figure.
I think that is extreme, but the Volvo has just enough "appeal" without the snobby black mark that a BMW might carry...Mazda has none of that...it is just another appliance, like a Sony TV or a Maytag washer...
Don't get me wrong, this is no way to buy a car...purely for the secondary benefits...but when the cars are close, and one has the better heritage and appeal...I know which one I tend to choose.
Maybe that makes me a snob...but then, I also like European cars...have since I was 5 when I used to dream about Porsches and Mercedes Benz...
Saab 900 S (5spd)
Infinit G20 (5spd)
Honda Civic HX (CVT)
BMW 318ti (5spd)
Hyundai Elantra GT (5spd)
...just to stop any bashing before it begins.
I think along exactly the same lines, and currently own 3 Volvo in my family.
Mazda is no average Japanese car like Toyota/Nissan. It's a sign of un-nerdy-ness. Take a look at the RX-8 auto -- smooth riding while handles like a sports car.
Volvo is a sign of dorky-ness, or for people who can't drive & will crash anyway. Or to impress your future mother in-law, etc.
After my folks got the '86 top-of-the-line Volvo -- the 760 turbo, I've been hating Volvo ever since. But I still love the new S40 T5, especially after I sat in its driver seat again yesterday after comparing to the Japanese-design Lexus IS300, which is horribly awkward to fit my slim 5"11" frame comfortably despite sufficient room in every dimension. While the new S40, even the base model w/ manual seat & lumbar support, allows me to stretch out freely. If I'm rich enough to not accept any compromise, then there's no way I can stand the 3-series' or IS300's driver-seat comfort or driving position, & will only take the C-class' & the S40's.
carman123 Sep 21, 2004 9:43am
Therefore, there's no point getting the S40 2.4i w/ sport suspension over the Mazda3 2.3. Besides the driving position, you're probably not gonna feel much difference b/t the 2 unless you crash the car real badly.
Mazda3's reliable except the weak heater, which Ford admitted it was intentional, & the early-production cars' weak A/C, which might be cured by now. The Volvo isn't necessarily safer if it breaks down in the middle of nowhere.
You just forget the age factor. I do not have to impress my mother-in-law any more. It's quite opposite - she wants to be on my good side :-)
The criteria of dorky/cool-ness is quite different at 20 and 40.
Also, it's a matter of demographics too. Somehow, my teenager daughters think that the new S40 is way too cool than any Mazda, including RX-8, given - they do not street race either...
The "stripped" T5 already got so much more std features. Moonroof, leather & metallic paint are the only things missing compare to a similarly priced 2.4i premium. Besides, the T-5 manual is a 6-sp rather than the 2.4i manual's 5-sp. Acura TSX charges the 6-sp manual the same price as the 5-sp auto!
Oh, the T5 also has the unique trunk 12V socket not found in the 2.4i, plus the the fog lights are std.
Does anyone know what the ratio of manual to automatic is?
To further my comment of the T5 only being a couple grand more, consider that BMW, Audi, and Mercedes charge about 6 grand to upgrade to the more powerful engines in their lineup. At about 2k, the T5 is a relative bargain over the base S40 considering all that you do get.
Like the original 760 back in '83, the FWD S40 T5's 16" 7-spoke Caligo alloys are truely ugly, just like those horse-carriage wooden wheels. What are these Scandinavians thinking?
Personally, I think thats too many manuals since Volvo only sells @ 2-5% manuals as it is.
Yes, the Volvo might have a bit of Nerdy taint to it, conjuring images of college professors with corduroy jackets and leather patches on the sleeves - but the current models just don't fit that old image - no more than the old image of Mazda being the most boring and under-powered maker of the Japanese manufacturers (in the hey-day of the 323/626/929 etc...
Mazda just doesn't have any snob appeal. I would call it the anti-snob. It has nothing to do with whether the cars are nice or not...just what images are brought to mind when you see the insignia. Call it marketing or whatever...but in a time when every tough guy is rushing out to buy the biggest baddest SUV they can afford - image still makes a difference.
For me, I feel a certain comfort factor in European cars that I don't get in Japanese cars. It may be a character flaw in me, but I find most Japanese vehicles to be rather boring...with the current models slowly changing all that for the better. (Even a few US cars are starting to impress me - which takes alot, given my personal objections to US cars)
That all said, the Mazda 3 is a nice looking car - but no one will mistake you for driving a luxury car. The Volvo S40 - well, it is different. You ARE driving a car from a luxury maker...like the difference between Acura and Honda, or Lexus and Toyota...
Mazda doesn't build $50k cars in our market.
Like I said before, it is a silly way to buy a car - but when the choices are so close...you have to weigh in ALL factors.
I know I would much rather have a Jetta than my Elantra GT - but I wasn't going to spend another $6k to do it...and I wanted that warranty.
As it is, I like the Elantra GT very much, like most Hyundais, the styling is derivative of european cars - in this case, the GT hatch is a near dead-ringer of the older Saab 9-3 hatches.
Now that my situation has changed some - I am considering an upgrade...Volvo is among the possible choices. I am mostly hanging out to see if new owners start running into problems with their cars...like the previos generation's issues with burning through brake pads every 10k miles, etc.
So far, so good...
But my mothers side is a bit less mixed...mostly German, Czech and Irish.
My father's side...take your pick, but the family name is old English - complete with crest, in fact someone with our family name signed the Declaration of Independence (no direct relation to me) - but no presidents yet.
I've been saying using 325i sedan w/o the lowered sport suspension & the C-class w/ the new lowered sport suspension as direct comparison.
I just test drove the newly tuned '05 C320 Sport sedan to run thru the speed bumps, both w/o slowing down & even brake over them. It wasn't comfortable like the longer-spring non-sport C-class sedans.
So I immediately took an S40 T5 w/ regular suspension over the same speed bumps. The front suspension banged so badly when I braked over the bumps. & even w/o braking, the front springs still ran out of travel! So the front springs are too short compare to the Accord, TSX, & the BMW/Benz.
What can I do? The S40 Sport & Mazda3 are too firm for comfort, & the S40 non-sport is too wimpy for deep bumps. I guess I'll move abroad & p/u a Focus II, which is likely to have the suspension-firmness tuned half way b/t the sport S40 & non-sport S40.
The '05 C-class sport's newly-tuned & quick steering still feels quite insulated & thus no fun despite high level of roll-free handling. So you might as well just get the comfy-riding long-spring AWD 325xi & enjoy an even better steering feel than the 2WD 3-series'.
Like the upcoming BMW 1-series & 3-series, foreign-market Mazda3 & Focus II equipped w/ smaller engines did not switch away from the traditional meaty-feeling pure-hydraulic power steering, unlike so many new cars these days.
Besides, even w/ just the electro-hydraulic power steering, the Focus II beats the BMW 1-series in overall rating:
"TWO WEEKS ago we put the new Ford Focus through a comparison test and it came out at the top of the pile (Autocar, 14 September). The fact that the pile included the VW Golf, Vauxhall Astra and BMW 116i tells you how broad its talents are."
So if I can get the reliable "German-built Focus II" version of the S40 & choose the hydraulic steering, then I'll be getting a damn fine car. Besides, like the C-class sedan, it doesn't seem to have the annoying & dangerous-for-passing/lane-change narrow rear visibility found in the S40 & Mazda3.
If i do go for the volvo, it'll probably be an AWD t5, manual tranny, select package, xenons, and i'd get it via euro delivery. If i get a BMW i'd wait for the new valvetronic engines and euro-deliver that as well.
Questions: does the FWD sport package feel like the AWD car, which i understand has "sport" by default? Can i negotiate off the euro delivery price? What sort of fuel economy have people really been getting?
dave
Volvo still makes safe vehicles but their safety isn't heads and shoulders above the rest of the market like they used to be. The S40 does well in NHTSA's test but other mid-size sedans actually bests it in some measurements now.
While the new TL & ES330 are ranked in the next category behind?
& the new S40 is ranked in another category further behind.
The only thing this little S40/V50 excels in crashes is the extra engine room that produces the least leg injury to the driver, & that's pretty important, IMO.
If carguy58 reads this message, I'm a fiftysomething you likes smaller, fun to drive cars that leave a few dollars for other fun pursuits. The sales brouchure was obviously directed towards your demographic group. I've owned Audis, VW's, a Porsche, a T-bird turbo coupe, a 280 Z and even a Reliant (my attempt to help bail out a failing Chrysler). What a boring car that was, a true toaster of a vehicle! Performance wise, the S40 does not disappoint.
beaunedoc
Your AWD got the optional sport suspension, or just the 17" wheels? I remember the V50 AWD is not available w/ sport suspension.