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Audi S4 and S4 Cabriolet
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Comments
I presently drive an M3 and have driven the S4 twice. I feel the S4 is a superior car for spirited everyday driving. The M3 may be more fun 3 days a year but the roads where I live are about as far from the track as you can get. In the world of ruts, potholes, and expansion joints that I live in the S4 excels. I can't say for sure until I've had the S4 on the track which I prefer there. The M3 has a go-cart personality that is definitely absent in the S4.
The weight issue is not an apples to apples comparison. Compare the S4's weight to the new, comparably loaded 328i's and you will find only a 100 lb. discrepancy. Don't forget that a base M3(400 lbs. lighter) is equipped more like racing car than a luxury car. Manual seats, no folding rear seat, no glass sun roof, no keyless entry, etc. AWD more than makes up for the other 100 lbs.
Y rated 225's were probably a ride quality decision. Euro S4's have Z-rated p zero's from what I've read.
I currently have a '94 325i that I have had a few Dinan things done to is: Level 3 suspension, chip, cold air intake & throttle body. My car has apros 220 hp & 215 fl/lbs of torque... and drives harder and edgier than an M3
The new S4 is a VERY torqueie car off the line! Press the throttle and instantly the car lunges ahead... much like a V8 Mustang. My 325 (with the Dinan cold air ram) waits about a 1/4 second to gulp some air before the power comes on off the line. I felt the Audi's shifter was a bit vague...
but it was the Quattro that really impressed me. I took a downward sweeping off ramp at 70... and I could feel power shifting to keep the car on track. The stock tires are better left for winter use... this car could really use some Pole Positions!
I am currently trying to decide if I should take the plunge and sell my modified BMW and try the Audi....
1) although I feel the S4 is fast off the line, it is not as fast as I would like. I have emailed some tuners to see how fast this car could be EASILY made... if I can get 300 hp (chip +50 hp) for $500... and 350 hp (intake & exhaust +50 more) for another $1500 THAT would be a KILLER deal for a 350 hp car. to do the same with a 2000 m3 would take $8,000 for a supercharger... and a 340 hp 2002 M3 will cost $50,000 out of the box...
2) almost everything else about the car: interior styling; hip, trendy outside look, is excellent. Breaks are good. Suspension has a bit too much roll, but sport springs & roll bars should solve that. The interior leather is VERY nice.
3) I HATE limited availability cars... probably why I bought the BMW instead of a 240 hp Cobra Mustang in '94... one thing I don't need in my life is attitude from an Audi dealer!
http://homepage.interaccess.com/~dkelly/my325i.htm
I was searching on A4.org. Look at this post (link down below) by someone who was at a track. I think he works at a dealer. But then again he could be lying.
My brother has an M3 and I love how fast it is, so I've been looking for a dealer who has one, otherwise it looks like a long wait
http://www.a4.org/forum/m/s4/11173.phtml
I was searching on A4.org. Look at this post (link down below) by someone who was at a track. I think he works at a dealer. But then again he could be lying.
My brother has an M3 and I love how fast it is, so I've been looking for a dealer who has one, otherwise it looks like a long wait
http://www.a4.org/forum/m/s4/11173.phtml
Anyone have performance info on the 3 cars?
My owners manual reads the lowest RON rated fuel I should use is 95. This is equivalent to super. In Germany the pumps use ROZ ratings. The ROZ rating on the super pump is 95. I'm only assuming RON = ROZ. Am I correct? Also I've been told that 3-4 years ago the Germans went to a super plus fuel. This fuel has special additives to accommodate cars with no catalytic converters. The super plus has a ROZ/RON of 98. If I use the 95 will I have less performance. I guess this is an issue of performance and octane, and if it matters what I use. The difference in price: $3.90 more per 100lts from super to super-plus. One final note: November issue of Playboy reviewed the SVT Mustang and rated a 5.3 0-60. With the chip the S4 rates a 5.0 0-62mph, quoted by ABT. Thought that was impressive.
Currently have an A4 2.8 quattro and love the car. Drove the S4 and wow. Only major complaints were short 1st gear ,long throws, and a little too much body role. Great car for around 40k.
The S4 (I have the same engine in my A6 2.7T) is tuned for 91 (RON+MON)/2 US or 95 RON, no matter what country you buy it in. Using 98 RON (or 93 here in the US) won't do anything extra for you.
The manual states for high performance, use 95 RON/91 AKI (R+M/2) or higher. It also states the car run on down to 91 RON/87 AKI without damage.
I presume this means the reduced grades you get at high altitudes (Denver), like 85 R+M/2 regular, 87 mid and 90 premium are okay as long as you stay at high altitudes?
The additives for non-catalytic cars don't do anything, the science behind them was bad it turns out. Here in California they are removing the additives.
The initial excitement on these additives (oxygenation) was generated by a study in Seattle (Washington, US) where they switched to oxygenated gas and it lowered smog 30% one winter. That summer many states (California) started requiring oxygenated gas in winter. Problem is the next winter when Seattle used the oxygenated gas again the smog was back up, and in fact significantly higher than it had been before they switched to oxygenated gas. So, the additives are unproven and falling out of favor.
The Mitsu 3000GT (or GTO outside US) is a twin turbo V6. Frankly, the AWD system on the GTO is lousy, it loses traction when you lose just one wheel, unlike Audi's system. Frankly, the whole car is lousy, it has survived almost unmodified since 1988, it's just plain out of date. I don't know why they haven't cancelled it. Also, it is very heavy and handles poorly. Still, the S4 isn't exactly light.
No word on S6 in NA yet.
I've heard 36/12k lease for $650. On online site was way high on price, Most others were at sticker. Are there any deals out there?
While it's no doubt as fast as a BMW 540i 6-spd you will have a little more wind and road noise.
I seriously considered a VR4 back in '91 but went with an Eclipse GSX and a Kawaski ZX11 instead, figuring I could beat most of the cars most of the time and ALL of those cars ALL of the time.
This turned out to be true to the chagrin of a certain ZR1-Vette owner who was dumb enough to challenge that (modded) bike at a stoplight. (okay, no fair comparing bikes to cars but it sure was fun to see the driver's stunned look when he asked me my 0-60 time at the next light and I told him 2.7 seconds!)
If you can live with the extra wind and road noise the S4 is a good choice, but your Vette will certainly be quicker (on dry roads).
An S4 is a lousy replacement for a 5-series. It is far too small to compare. It is smaller than a 3-series (inside). Did you buy the 5-series for the size? If so, look at the A6 2.7T. It is similar performance to the 540i, but far cheaper. However, no sport suspension available yet (in the US), so it doesn't handle as well as a 540i (in fact, it may not handle as well once it gets the sport suspension). But it is quicker to 60, stops quicker, and holds the same load inside. AWD too.
mgreen1, the ZX11 will beat 99% of the cars out there 100% of the time but there are extreme car(s) that can whip (relatively speaking) the ZX11. Look at next months Car and Driver review of the BOSS Mustang. 0 - 60 in an astonishing 1.9 seconds!
-rdo
russell.ollie@erols.com
For my $10K I saved, I can deal with that.
You could go the extra $10K and get the A6 4.2 which is virtually identical in accelleration to the 540i (and better in braking), but frankly it doesn't handle as well, so unless you see the AWD as an advantage (I do, many don't), just stick with the 540i.
You aren't going to see any 0-60 1.9s cars on the road, so you don't have to worry about racing them by mistake. Any car that can do that has to weigh so little that it would be clearly modified (one interior seat, no dash) and is very unlikely to be street legal.
bollinger, while I agree with your general sentiment, it is factually incorrect. The BOSS Mustang that I'm looking at in the January Car and Driver weighs 3,695 pounds which is by no means light. Further, not only does this thing appear to be street legal, aside from the garish paint job on the John Coletti car and the raised hood, the car looks quite normal compared to a Cobra Mustang (standard interior and all). Of course it has 855 hp at 6,200 rpm and 794 lb-ft of torque at 5,200 rpm so it's not normal!
-rdo
russell.ollie@erols.com
p.s. - I'll have to read the article for detail later I guess.
I was surprise how stock both of those cars look. However, given that the article makes a point of how both of the two car owners won't give straight facts about their cars, I can't imagine the weights are correct. 855HP at 3,600lbs just shouldn't equal 1.9 to 60.
Still, my talk about you can look at the interior and see its modded is clready wrong, huh? I guess you'll have to look for super-wide rear tires.
Those two cars both look streetable, but I doubt they pass the less obvious tests required (volume, emissions).
Both of those cars are amazing, but the Mustang far more so.
The results:
Manual KILLS the Tiptronic. Don't get me wrong, Tip was good, but you lose a lot. No question.
Two ways to change gears in the tiptronic- steering wheel, and via the center drive stick. Gears automatically change in Tip mode somewhere around 6300rpm...I guess to protect you from killing the tranny.
Highlights:
This car asks for abuse, then asks for more. Unbelievable performance with the manual transmission. Believe everything you read about the performance on this machine.
Navigation system was really nice. Directions show up on the middle screen between the tach and the speedometer. Female voice navigates you. Cool touch.
Disappointments:
I thought there would be more styling differences compared to the A4 beyond larger tires, front airdam, and tiny S4 badges. Don't get me wrong, I like the A4 styling, just expected more aggressivenes with the S4.
Very disappointed in the "premium" Bose stereo. Not crisp. My wifes Lexus ES300 sounds better, and my SC400 (Nakamichi) sounds much better.
HID headlights look good, but don't turn on and off automatically. I thought auto headlamps were pretty much a standard feature on perf/lux cars these days.
END RESULT - Performance is there, but I just can't get excited about the overall look of the car. If the styling were a little more aggressive that would put me over the edge. I fully expected, going into the test drive, to be placing my order before leaving. I'm holding off on buying one for now.
Looks like SoCal dealers have more of supply so those in NorCal looking for one should expand their searches down there or go through a broker like I did.
I couldn't even find a dealership here in the Bay Area that had any on their lots and plus they were charging ~$2500 over MSRP on the average. The wait for an ordered car would have taken 3-6 months in some cases.
Did you pay MSRP or less for your car?
Also, HID headlights are not a standard feature on most luxury cars. Many luxury cars do not have them, and if they do, they are an option (including, BMW). Personally, I have not heard of being able to turn on and off HID headlights. There are autoleveling headlights, and I have only heard of a few very high end cars that have this feature.
Apparently, you are really into the Lexus thing, so nothing about a premium performance sedan would get you going, so why don't you just wait for the Lexus IS sports sedan to come out. Sounds like it's more up your alley. That cushy, floaty Japanese feeling (I know I had a Camry, exactly like the Lexus ES 300, that's why I got rid of it!)
uofmiami - Why do people (you) insist on putting cars up on a pedastal? No car is untouchable. Even when it is unlikely, any car be bested. As to the #1 title, as you mention, there is no real #1 title, but many car experts/magazines seem to think the S4 is as good or better than the M3. Of course, that is easier in a year where there is no M3. I think Audi was a bunch of geniuses to bring out the S4 when there is no M3. This gives this excellent car a head start it would otherwise have had more trouble getting.
No need to put down Lexus, they deliver true luxury with more reliabilty than any other manufacturer, that's what some people want. My wife loves her ES300. I've simply graduated to a higher performance level than Lexus can deliver. I know a couple of other people who have SC400's and really love them. They just aren't real performance drivers.
The one thing I can't stand about my current car is that "floaty" drive you speak of, hence why I want to dump the SC400. After driving a friends 92 S4 (mod), anothers 96 M3, and yet anothers 99 Porsche, I long for feeling those cars deliver.
The Bose sound system in the S4 would probably be considered decent by many people. I'm not one of those people. I haven't heard a Bose system that I like yet. Wife's ES300 has a Bose system. Don't like it either, but better than the S4. My last car, Acura Legend, had Bose system comparable to the S4. Didn't like it. Again, just IMO.
As far as the styling goes, if the S4 would simply have a some "ground effects" differences, like thicker rockers, it would put me over the edge. Anyone out there know the aftermarket possiblilities for this? I'm familiar with the chip and exhaust upgrades, which are a no brainer, but I haven't seen anything for styling.
I'm pretty sure you misunderstood the disappointment with the headlights. I was referring specifically to the feature that turns on the lights on automatically if it's dark.
I test drove a '99 A4 2.8 Quattro for a whole weekend over the summer. I can understand why you like it. Great car, just not enough power for me.
Happy Holidays!!!
No, I don't love it, I could certainly do better if I set up my own stereo, but I am willing to live with a little worse sound to have a factory system. This is because the factory systems are better integrated and far less likely to get stolen.
I have to agree, the treble is still a little faulty. It's better than Bose past, and more along the lines of the super-bright Infinitys I am used to. The bass is excellent. The subwoofer does a good job, although when you turn up the bass level, it makes it apparent that most of it is coming from behind you. C'est la vie.
uofmiami - The statement I am talking about is the one of "the current S4 will need aftermarket mods to run with the new M3". The new M3 doesn't even exist yet, and you have relegated it to the back seat. Many other people said the same about the current M3, and are finding the two cars are neck-and-neck in many circumstances. Why don't you wait for an actual comparison (or even the existence of the new M3) before you crown a king?
Anyway, if you went and bought a 2000 model, it would be a twin-turbo on the 2.0L Boxer 4.
Bobsc400,
Where and when did I slam you buddy? I don't know where that came from at all. I love Lexus and I drive one too so I don't know what you are talking about. Plus I have the headlights on my car set to go off when I shut the car off and on when I turn the car on, which Bollinger doesn't like I never directed any comments directly to you, check the posts above. If the SC400 doesn't deliver the performance you need, try a GS400, I love it but then again you may not want a 4 door. Otherwise pick a car you like cause in the end it's what you think that matters. Later
Does the S4 Bose system come with a subwoofer? If so I didn't notice it. Maybe it wasn't connected correctly. The dealership literally received the car that morning. It had less than a mile on it for the test drive.
My issue with the Bose was the overwhelming midrange, even after I adjusted the treble and bass. The lack of "brightness" you speak of was most obvious.
If it doesn't come standard, a subwoofer has a good chance of taking care of the problem.
Does the S4 Bose system come with a subwoofer? If so I didn't notice it. Maybe it wasn't connected correctly. The dealership literally received the car that morning. It had less than a mile on it for the test drive.
My issue with the Bose was the overwhelming midrange, even after I adjusted the treble and bass. The lack of "brightness" you speak of was most obvious.
If it doesn't come standard, a subwoofer has a good chance of taking care of the problem.
Not crisp. My wifes Lexus ES300 sounds better, and my SC400 (Nakamichi) sounds much better.<<
Crisp? would you be describing high, mid, or low -end here? Most people prefer extremely bright (high-end off the chart) systems while others (who are subsequently called audiophiles even if they aren't) prefer neutral systems which neither accentuate either end. These systems faithfully reproduce the recording as it was intended. Some people hate 'em, some people love 'em. Doesn't really matter, because no matter how much dough you plunk down (even aftermarket) you can't get good sound out of ANY car. Two reasons:
#1 - Acoustics. Just won't work. Too small an area, with weird shapes, and un-sound-friendly material (metal & leather).
#2 - Electrics. 12v (okay 14v) systems can't touch 110v systems. Just won't.
So my advice, buy a car for how it drives and what it gives you in return, not the stereo. If that's what you want, buy a pair of $500 sennheiser headphones instead, it'll be better than any car stereo you can buy.
-rhesse
all my other raves about this car aside, one concern or complaint: my s4 transmission has always been tough to operate _smoothly_. Engaging into 2nd gear seems to have two separate points of engagement to deal with. the tranny also 'feels' as though it's clunking or hitting a gear or something in the transmission unless i let the revs back way down with the clutch depressed and then execute the shift. car only has 1400+ miles on it, and no, i dont abuse this transmission - no track workouts, no red light dragstrip nonsense.
anyone else experiencing this?
... sleeves