Audi S4 and S4 Cabriolet

jbwcfp · June 2001

Hey spridledog, you got 1000 miles yet? You've got a few months to enfoy before winter tire season.:-) I spoke with my service rep, he also suggested all seasons, unless I drive on lots of snow covered roads. I, like you drive mostly cleared streets in SE Michigan. The only trouble I had the last two years with my Lincoln LS v8 was with ice, so I think quattro with all season will be fine unless your winter driving is in lots of severe weather.
Jim W

ed_ph413 · June 2001

Are there any major differences between the 2000 and 2001 models. I'm interested in problems that may have been corrected. I'm looking at used 2000's compared to getting a 2001. What can I expect to pay over invoice for a 2001 new? I drove a 2000 and loved it.

spridledog · June 2001

Thanks for the help. Nope, I'm only at about 300 miles, so I'm still takin' it easy. By the way, I picked up a set of the Audi Sport winter/rubber mats from my dealer (he sold them to me at his cost, supposedly), and they're really cool. Of course, they fit perfectly. They have the red Audi Sport logo, and even have little round dots on them that match the look of the dots on the steering wheel and shift knob - very cool. And just to show how nuts for this car I really am, I even sprung for the Audi Sport valve stem caps - they're chrome with a brushed metal tip w/the Sport logo - the ultimate finishing touch. I'm a sick man! Hey, you're in Michigan - I love that state - I was a Spartan! (Go Green!) My dear wife, however, was a Wolverine! Thanks again...

spridledog · June 2001

If it helps any, I'm in Northeast Ohio, and I just bought a 2001 S4 sedan with Premium, Bose, Cold Weather and 6-speed (MSRP $41,925, invoice $37,522) for $38,500. You should be able to get a similar deal, I would imagine - just be tough! The car, by the way, is thoroughly amazing (see my previous post #538)! Good luck...

beaune · June 2001

I read with interest the comments on winter tires. I am from DE MI and know of three other S4 owners where I work. Only one has wintered with his S4 and did so on 16 in. Alpinas with very high satisfaction. After three winters on all season tires on my old A4 (very high satisfaction), I am dealing with the tire issue for my new S4 Avast. I am thinking all seasons at present. jbwcfp and spridledog, please keep in touch and let me know your thoughts. I will get more details from my friend and pass them on. I also plan to talk seriously with my dealer regarding their advice. beaune

spridledog · June 2001

My Audi salesman told me that there is a "program" between Audi and The Tire Rack. He told me to pick out which wheels and tires I want from The Tire Rack, and then he will order them, and get me a really big discount. I'm not sure if all dealers do this, but I'd certainly suggest asking your dealer before making a move in this regard.

bobinsofla · June 2001

Thanks Jim W for your response. You're spot on - the540 and A6 are on the same size as the Maxima. I love the 540 but have serious damn heartburn paying 46K plus for a 2 year old car.

Would like other input from some other owners. I'm itching to pull the trigger but being an engineer by trade I can't help but gather as much data as possible before I make the purchase. I greatly appreciate any input regarding the S4 and the ownership experience.

Thanks
Bob S

jbwcfp · June 2001

Spridledog, did you registar for the Audi Challenge? It's at Mosport park, near toronto, in the great white north country, It may still be snowing there, I'm not sure. It's a one day driving school put on by audi. you get a chance to really learn how to drive your quattro. It's offered on august 11th & 12th. It's very limited participation, but last week they still had spots available, as I was thinking of changing from saturdays session to sunday. Let me know if you are interested.
Jim W

jbwcfp · June 2001

I have to warn you, do not drive an s4 unless you are prepared to get one. Once the bug bites, it is all over with. BTW, if you need a little more room, consider an s4 avant, that's what I have.
Jim W

jbwcfp · June 2001

bobinsoflo, If you want more info about audi's than you can handle, try www.audiworld.com
Good luck with your decision.
Jim W

ory · June 2001

I am considering a lease on a 2000 s4. Does someone out there have any experience leasing a used car? So far I have been offered 0 down and $499 per month for 36 months, but think I can get a better deal(12k per year). I will appreciate any feedback.

beaune · June 2001

As I approach 500 miles on my new S4 I am very impressed with every aspect of the car. My friends tell me it only gets better. One suffered a case of buyer's remorse when he realized that it was tight for his kids in the back seat. He got over it and I can't run into him without the latest update on how much he loves the car. I'm dreaming up ways to get it out of town for some serious road tripping. Our cars are new since spring but another friend feels the same about his 2000. beaune

stgreen · June 2001

I am t h i s close to closing the deal on an S4 sedan. However, i'd rather not purchase 16" snow/all season tires and wheels on a lease vehicle (live in new england).

QUESTION: Has anyone, or what do you think of having dealer put on 16 inch wheels and all seasons tires on S4 on permanent basis?? Will I really lose THAT much performance (im not driving on the autobahn everyday) and will TIRE NOISE increase or decrease with smaller tires??

thanks for any input!!!

stgreen

JBaumgart · June 2001

If I was going to go with one all season tire and road noise was a primary concern I would seriously consider the Yokohama AVS db. For the S4 I would also stick to the 17 inch size if at all possible - more often than not even in New England the roads are snow-free. Here's a link to The Tire Rack's web page and from there you can check available sizes:

Yokohama AVS db

jbwcfp · June 2001

Why not have your dealer put all season 17" tires on your original wheels. I think all season performance tires should do allright with the quattro. 16" and narrower tires would probably be better in the snow, but if you drive mainly on cleared streets the all seasons should work.
Jim w

mgreene1 · June 2001

per owner feedback in S4 forum on AudiWorld.com

These evidently work fine on the stock 17" rims for all season driving.

stgreen · June 2001

I just read a few of the posts to my question and checked out the specs on those tires and will try to convince dealer to throw on either yokohama or dunlops and for him to keep summmer high perf. tires.

thanks greatly for your input.

stgreen

spridledog · June 2001

Wouldn't that cause a problem if you put all-season tires on the 17" wheels? Presumably, the all-season tires would not have as low a profile as the original high-performance tires, so you would be increasing the total diameter, right? I thought this was a no-no. It was my understanding that it is important to keep the total diameter the same. Thus, if you change to an all-season tire with a higher profile, you have to go down to a 16" wheel. Am I wrong? I'm trying to decide which winter wheels & tires to buy right now, so I could use some help with this as well.

JBaumgart · June 2001

So called "all season" tires come in many different sizes including low profile so there would not be any problem mounting a set to the original equipment wheels. There are many to choose from including the two mentioned above that lean toward the high performance spectrum but still retain the "all season" designation. Many other "all season" tires are of the more widely purchased budget or "touring" tire variety. In other words these tires cover a very wide spectrum and you just have to carefully choose a tire that has the characteristics that are most important to you, whether it be handling that's as close as possible to true maximum performance tires, good winter traction, low price, or what have you. You are correct though in being concerned about retaining a tire diameter that's as close as possible to the original equipment as possible especially when going to a wheel that's a different size. If the original wheel is retained and you decide to go with a different tire than stock (be it all season or whatever) then it's probably best to stay with the original tire size as well. If you do this then you will preserve the same diameter and revolutions per mile and thus retain accurate speedometer readings.

Not to plug Tire Rack but if you explore their site and examine their specs, comparisons and customer comments you can learn a lot about wheel and tire fitmants and individual tire characteristics. Over the years I've purchased a number of different wheels and tires from them for various cars that I've owned and have always been satisfied with their products and service.

stgreen · June 2001

Since I posed the question i called tire rack for their advice and opinions. Spridledog was correct: If the S4 comes with 225-45-17's then that is EXACTLY what i have to put on the wheel if i want to go with a replacment tire. putting on a 50/55 for better snow traction or a different diameter (205 for example) and riding all year round is NoT possible. Over the phone i was basically told the S4 wheel and tire must stay consistent for all things - besides the speedometer - to work. AND, there are very few (actually he recommended on ly one: pirelli p7000 super sport all seasons, backordered and not well reviewed on website) HOWever, i can put on 16"'s and then change a few things.

If i get a set of 16 inchers for winter id put on the yokohamas or dunlops at 225/50/16.

That is a key factor in whether to go for S4 and add in added expense of time and $$ for putting on snows or BMW 330Xi (AWD) which for a lease prices out within $10/month and needs no snows but has a 2 month wait to take delivery of car....

Decisions are difficult.

stg

spridledog · June 2001

O.K., so I think I've decided to run 16"ers during the winter, with a high performance winter tire, even though I hate to give up the sweet look of the larger 17" wheels. I'm considering either the Pirelli Winter 210 SnowSport, or the Dunlop Winter Sport M2. Anyone out there have any experience with these? Any preference for one or the other? Thanks.

spridledog · June 2001

Someone else just recommended that I consider the Michelin Pilot Alpin tire. Any thoughts on this one? Thanks again.

acorby · June 2001

I have read a number of posts regarding price and decided to post this information. Two months ago I paid cash for a silver Avant S4 w/6sp, cold, premium package & Bose. The dealer discounted the car down to a little over $3000 under msrp.

There are a number of dealers out there willing to deal on the cars. When I was in Littleton, Co they had 9 S4s on the lot, only two Avants. I ended up buying the car in Colorado Springs because they had the silver exterior with the silver leather.

Note - Colorado Springs is also discounting the A6 4.2 $4000 off msrp. I have one as a loaner for my 5K service.....

spridledog · July 2001

I'm having a problem with the sunroof of my new S4, and I'm wondering if any of you have it too. When driving with the roof fully open, there is an annoying booming noise which I believe is caused by wind making the headliner vibrate. I have had the same problem to a lesser degree with my wife's Sienna, but it is infrequent. When it does happen on the Sienna, I have found that if I close the roof just slightly, it stops. With my S4, even that doesn't help too much. This morning on the way to work on the highway, I could feel the headliner vibrating with my hand, and the booming sound was quite noticeable. I love driving with the sunroof open, but this makes it almost unbearable! Anyone else have this problem? What should I do? I think I'll post this in the A4 forum, as well. Thanks.

mmcbride1 · July 2001

I bought my A4 at about the same time (end of April) at McDonald Audi. I noticed a ton of S4's on the lot as well, and even 3-4 Avants. Makes you wonder if they over-ordered or if they wanted too much for them.

jbwcfp · July 2001

Yeah mine makes a noise when it is wide open, I usually open it a little past halfway if on the e-way, a little more on surface streets. You also might try opening the back windows, that helps with the turbulance. I don't do that often because it messes up what little hair I have left :-(
Spridledog, are you interested in the Audi Challenge? It's in August, last I heard there were still openings. It'll be a chance to learn about quattro from experts.
Jim W

bobinsofla · July 2001

I'm pulling the trigger and heading to my local Audi dealer this weekend to negotiate for an S4 with Premium Package and Bose stereo. Would like to know what folks have been paying lately for their S4.

Thanks,
Bob

spridledog · July 2001

Regarding S4 pricing, see my previous post no. 555. At least in my area, S4's are plentiful, and, no matter what your saleman tells you, you can work a great deal. Initially, I wasn't even considering an S4 because $42,000 was more than I wanted to spend. However, once I figured out that I could get one for $38,500, that changed everything. I was looking at a Volvo S60 T5 at the time, which is a nice car, but I'm thrilled with my S4 - it's truly an amazing vehicle! Good luck!

s4oilllk · July 2001

Has anyone had experience in getting a replacement vehicle or refund from audi? I bought my s4 the end of april and it is approaching 3 weeks in the shop to fix oil leak problems.

liljonson · July 2001

hi, i don't have an s4 or plan to have one. i just wanted to say i was at a light next to an s4 and wow i got goose bumps by the engine noise and also scared at the same time. it was yello with the 17's and shaved badging. wats your fastest quarter mile to anybody whos tested their cars out at the track? and has anybody done more modifications to this car?

sean2g · July 2001

Hi, My cousin went to an Audi dealership and looked at an S4, the car has 11k on it, navi, and some kind of chip that does 0-60 in about 5.2 The asking price is 33-34k, what do you all think about that price??????? tia

liljonson · July 2001

can't u make the s4 do that stock with good shifting points?

bobinsofla · July 2001

Just picked up my 2001 S4 Friday night. Silver with Onyx, 6speed. Must say I'd rather be out driving right now than working. Thanks spridledog and Jim W (jbwcfp) for the purchasing input. Basically had to pit one dealership against another to get the best pricing ($38,800+tax). S4's just aren't as plentiful in South Florida as they appear to be in the North and West. Only wish my treads were Michelin Pilot Sports rather than Pirellis.............

spridledog · July 2001

Congrats to you, bobinsofla! Sounds like you got a good deal - good work! I absolutely LOVE my S4. I am now well past the 1,000 mile break-in point, so I can really feel the power! My advice - as hard as it may be, take it easy during the first 1,000 miles - it's worth it in the long run. Now....I'm STILL wrestling with whether or not to go down to 16" wheels for the winter. From an asthetic stanpoint, I'd much rather stick with 17's - they look sooo much better. Supposedly, however, 16's are better in the snow. I live in the northeast where it does snow, but the roads are usually plowed. I don't really need the thing to drive like a Jeep in the snow, just provide decent traction. Anyone out there run 17" snows in the winter with acceptable results? Thanks...

jbwcfp · July 2001

Good job, sounds like a good deal. It's VERY difficult to keep under 4k, the manual says you can go above 4k after 500 miles with mild bursts, just make sure the oil temp is up.
Spridledog, my dealer said all seasons are fine for metropolitan areas, and that is the route I'm going to take. I'm deciding if I want different wheels for the summer tires or wheels with the all seasons. I may get some bf goodrich kdws, if you buy before the end of august they throw in a g-tech! Have fun every one!

bobinsofla · July 2001

Really like the new ride but having a dang hard time keeping it under 4K revs. Having to use alot of restraint. (My audi dealer sales manager said don't worry about the 4k break-in limit and thrash it like you normally would!!!)

Wanted to know if any of the owners have "chipped" their car. I'm looking for some feedback as to what chip least compromises the driveability of the car. Tried to get some feedback thru audiworld.com but just to much bs there to have to sort thru. Thanks Bob

p.s. any South Florida S4 owners on this townhall?

dam225 · July 2001

I also have been looking into chips but I am afraid they may void the warranty?

mgreene1 · July 2001

I used Dunlop Winter Sport M2 tires in upstate NY for two winters and they were fine on the stock rims and the normal tire size. Very good on snow and decent dry handling. Also very quiet for snow tires. Didn't notice a huge difference on dry roads vs. my summer tires (Dunlop SP9000s - also highly recommended).

I ran a GIAC chipped ECM and it was very drivable with notable improvement in power across the rev range. Went back to stock after a few days but there were no problems with the chip. Also had an aftermarket exhaust which is probably a good idea if you chip. Also used aftermarket diverter valves (Bailey) which are recommended for chipped cars since they can handle the extra boost.

A chip will definitely be an issue for powertrain warranty work, especially for blown turbos, which seems to be the most common powertrain problem.

My dealer was aware of all my mods and said any problems that were caused by them would not be covered. They seemed fair and reasonable about mods and even installed a short shifter for me.

Whether your mod "caused" a problem is a matter of much debate. For me, the novelty of the chip simply wasn't worth the potential hassle and I liked rowing through the gears which is not as necessary with the increased torque from a chip.

Having been there and done that, I'd leave the car bone stock unless you're a really serious enthusiast, which evidently I'm not.

jtouga1 · July 2001

All you European car lovers out there, please check into "European Parallel Importing" on the Smart Shopper in the Town Hall.

I really need you opinons and advice on this subject. Thanks...

Jon

wepperson · July 2001

On the A4, there's a detent on the second (I think) setting from wide open on the sunroof.
The owners manual states that driving at highway speed with the roof more open than this
may result in unacceptable noise. I'm surprised if this is not also the case with the S4.

forex303 · August 2001

I am looking for opinions on deciding between these 2 cars.

I thought for sure that I was sold on the A6 2.7T, but made the "mistake" today of test driving a 2001 S4 w/tiptronic (I spend a good deal of time in rush hour traffic). Needless to say a thrill of a ride. Here's the dilemma. The dealership I visited has 12 loaded 2001 A6 2.7T's sitting in the lot, so I know they're ready to deal. I'm guessing that I can get a $46,825 MSRP for around $43,000 (about the top of my comfort range considering taxes and all). In the meantime, I've heard a lot about the expected improvements in the 2002 A6 2.7T to make me feel like it would be smarter to wait rather than settle on a 2001 model. However, my fear is that I do wait for the 2002 model only to discover that they're selling for upwards of $48,000 with little bargaining to be done (price now getting outside of what I wanted to spend).

Meanwhile, this 2001 S4 has a sticker of $41,925 and I think I can probably get it for around $39-40,000. What to do?

I love all of the amenities in the A6 and the extra cargo and rear passenger room. But realistically, 90% of the time I am in my car alone commuting and the S4 would be suitable enough (I have 2 small children and only occasionally have more than 2 adults in my car at the same time). The expected $3000 price difference between the A6 and the S4 is not critical to me. Is there better value in one alternative versus the other: 2001 A6 2.7T ($43,000) vs. 2001 S4 ($40,000)? Or, will the 2002 A6 2.7T really be worth the wait and the extra cash? I am also perturbed by the fact that Consumer Reports recommends the A4/S4 but does not recommend the A6.

beaune · August 2001

My recent sprint from Detroit to Boston and back was everything that I hoped it would be. The S4 performed beautifully and the police were liberal. I got about 24 mpg with cruising speeds of 75 to 80 mph. The seats are great!
I have a friend with a chipped S4. His comments, "Awesome!" He does note less work is needed with the gearbox and that he doesn't think that anything else on the road can touch him. As the S4 is the most powerful car I have ever owned, I'm content with its superb out of the showroom performance.
I have the tiptronic. The trans is smarter than I am when pure acceleration is desired. Maybe with practice..... The only thing I really miss is performing a smooth down shift into a corner. beaune

chavlik · August 2001

Spridledog:

I'm also in the Cleveland area (Avon Lake) and replaced my 17" Bridgestone RE92s last winter(on a Maxima 5spd) with a snowtire package from Tirerack. Four Artic Alpins + Borbet Type E ran me around $1000 delivered. I went with 16" because I wanted a bit more rubber between the rim/road to protect from the pot-holes we grow here during the winter

The difference was remarkable - the snows grip much better then the stock Bridgestones. I remember Car and Driver did an article a couple winters back on 4 wheel drive with all-season radials vs. front wheel drive with snows - they preferred the snows.

Another thought is: why don't you garage that beautiful S-4 for the winter and spend the $1000 on a beater (that will hopefully pass the e-check). The thought of salt and snow on the S4 isn't a pleasant one.....

spridledog · August 2001

Thanks for the input, fellow Clevelander! Glad to see this S4 forum finally getting some action - it's been a while. I know that 16"ers offer better protection for the wheels, and slightly better winter traction, but I'm so vain that I can't bear the thought of not having those big 17" wheels on my S4!! I just love the look! According to Eddie at the Tire Rack (he's the Audi king over there), 17"ers should be fine. Most of the time, the roads are pretty well plowed, and between the snow tires and Quattro, I should be fine (I hope). Now, I'm trying to decide if I should buy a whole new second set of 17" wheels (ouch!) or just keep switching tires on the Avus wheels twice a year. I have a fellow S4 driver in town that does that. On the plus side, you don't have to buy new wheels and lug (excuse the pun, lol) them around. On the minus side, you have to pay to rebalance everytime, and there's at least the possiblity of wheel damage from changing so often. What do you think? Thanks again...Go Tribe!

chavlik · August 2001

Spridledog:

I went with the second set of rims to avoid the re-mount and re-balance headache. I was also concerned about rim damage from the tire mounting equipment, although your Audi dealer will most likely take better care than the local Firestone or Goodyear house.

It takes me all of about 30 mins to swap all 4 treads using a floor jack and a single jack stand. I run the snows from Dec 1 to March 15th (I know, Mar 15th is taking some chances around here). The rims sit stacked in the corner of the garage, so space isn't a huge issue.

Carting the treads around might pose a problem, especially since the S4 doesn't have a large trunk.

I'd recommend 17" aftermarket rims (as close to the original look as possible) with Artic Alpins or Blizzak tires. Quattro with snows has got to yield terrific traction.

You might also look for refurbished OEM rims on the web (aaarims.com has them for $315 each)- they'll be more expensive than the tirerack, but you'll have the Avus look year-round.

As for the Tribe, they sure didn't look too grand tonight - hope they look better against the M's this weekend

jbwcfp · August 2001

You need to drive both cars back to back. I have an S4 avant, and love it. I'm sure the A6 has more amenities and certainly more room. There may be some improvements in 2002, but the 2001's are very nice!. Also a good value in 2002 may be the a6 3.0.

jbwcfp · August 2001

I'm also in the detroit area, you should check out dtw_audi in the yahoo groups area. We have a local audi owners club. It's getting to be quite active and has some very knowledgeable members. I have an s4 avant, and also love the power. I have thought about chipping, but warranty issues and the amount of power already available, keep me stock. I did just get my windows tinted 35% all around and it helps alot with the onyx leather. Looks good too! A couple of guys in the group have vag-com, and one reprogrammed my locks, so I can remotely raise and lower the windows, nice feature.

habitat1 · August 2001

My two cents on the issue from a slightly different value perspective.

I have been doing a lot of advance shopping in anticipation of a late fall purchase. Had been looking primarily at BMW and Mercedes, but friends have suggested considering Audi as well.

From purely a personal standpoint, I would not select an A6 at $43k over a relatively loaded 2002 530i Sport, which, through discounted Euro delivery, I could get for about $42k (n/i taxes & tags). The S4, on the other hand, doesn't really have a direct comp and is more unique in its value positioning. I found it more fun to drive than a standard 330i. Less fun than an M3, but quite a bit lower cost and readily available. So, I would say that an S4 is more uniquely positioned within its category(and perhaps a better value)than the A6.

I am still somewhat troubled by Audi's higher depreciation factor than BMW or Mercedes, but they clearly are improving. I will continue to consider them.

bobinsofla · August 2001

Forex303,

You're basically going through the same trade study I went through. I wanted a BMW 540i but refused to pay that type of money for a 1-2 year old car. I love the 5 series (sorry habitat1, if you're going to buy a 5, the 540i is the only one worth spending the cash on!!)

Back to your delimma forex303 - I was going from a 95 Maxima SE to the Audi. The A6 and BMW 5 series are same basic dimensions as the Maxima. It was hard to go down in size but you got to ask yourself 2 basic questions: 1) Do you want to have fun when you drive?, and 2) does size matter? I'm married with no kids so size didn't matter that much. Fun to drive matters alot. Uniqueness in the marketplace and on the road matters alot to me as well (there's a BMW everywhere you look). But the bottom line is that it's a fun car to drive with still alot of practicality. And it has significant aftermarket capability if you feel the need for speed!

If you're in the "pushing 40, just turned 40" range, go have some fun. Buy the S4.

My 2 cents..........good luck

bobinsofla · August 2001

What brand chip does your buddy have in his S4?

Thanks,
Bob

Audi S4 and S4 Cabriolet

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