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Saturn S-Series

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Comments

  • luvmysaturnluvmysaturn Member Posts: 6
    Earlier I posted a message about acceleration problems with my 96 Saturn. It bucked whenever I accelerated and sometimes died when at stop signs if I didn't rev it up. I changed the Spark plugs and the PVC(?). It's the vacuum advance. I love driving my Saturn again. My spirituality has returned and I am no longer cussing out my car everytime I drive it (-:
  • ernit526ernit526 Member Posts: 1
    I have a 93SC1 SOHC automatic. I need help. I have already replaced the following, EGR valve, o2 sensor Purge solenoid, converter, and last a new computer. Nothing helped my problem. The car will idle fine, but as soon as you pull out it acts like it is running on 2 cylinders. Mechanic checked fuel pressure,vacum and electrical, but nothing shows up. Even after replacing the solenoid, it showed no codes. Saturn sugessted putting a new computer in and that did not help either. $1100 later I have a car that won't run. Can someone give me some help?
  • tdpaul7tdpaul7 Member Posts: 5
    MAP sensor... this sounds very similar to a problem I had and the MAP sensor was the fix.
  • jp1954jp1954 Member Posts: 1
    I've got the same problem- I noticed my passenger side sunroof drain is clogged. I poured water in the tray with the sunroof open, it flowed out the driver side fender well, but not the pass. I'm not sure this is the whole problem, but I'm starting there. Sunroof seals are never perfect, that's why they have provisions for catching the water and draining it.
  • saturn93saturn93 Member Posts: 2
    I have both Saturn and Mazda, and the Saturn is the best. It is a 1993 and the Mazda is a 2002. The Mazda sits while I drive the old reliable saturn.
  • saturn93saturn93 Member Posts: 2
    My 93 saturn sc1 has a problem. The power windowns do not work and the radio only plays when it wants. My dealer thinks there is a short in the electrical somewhere. I bought the car used and the service center I took it to knows the car. But does not want to fix it again. Can some help tell me about shorts?
  • johnw3gizmojohnw3gizmo Member Posts: 1
    hi my 1993 saturn sl2 automatic has some problems it would want to die and bog out when i come to a stop it shifts hard in and out of 2nd and 3rd is the same way and the engine light came on and i did a diagnostic on it and codes #11 pcm/tc trouble codes stored,#73 info flag coolant temp unstable , #74 info flag coolant temp transaxle temp ,#53 info flag esc exceeded max value.it was recommend to me to change the ecm and the wanting to die part is fixed and they changed to silinoid for the temp , it still has problems with the shifting 2,3 so i called someone else and they told me to take it to saturn for them to flash the computer to my car i was wondering if that will fix my problems since i dont have $105.oo dollars to mess around with so if any one could help me that would be great thanks :confuse:
  • button256button256 Member Posts: 1
    Hi! I've seen some folks on here giving Saturn a really bad rap, but my experience has been good. I have a 1992 SL2, bought used, and it has somewhere over 250,000 miles on it. I bought it a year and a half ago. The odometer quit working at a little over 217,000 miles, but I use this car to deliver pizzas in at the present. I have also used it to deliver newspapers. Have had well over 500 Sunday papers (2" thick) in it at one time. It has survived runins with two larger cars (jealous of my Saturn's durability no doubt :) ). One of those was a Dodge Intrepid that was hauled away. I just had to patch my headlight case and have a few cracks in the front fenders as a result of the incident. The other was a side impact on the right front fender by a Lincoln Continental in a parking lot. (These were NOT my fault by the way.) The damage was not enough to cause drivability issues, so I have not done much to replace them, yet. And the previous owner was MUCH rougher on the car than I have been!!! BUT, it's still going!!! (Knock on wood!!!) I have had a few little problems here and there, but nothing that could not be remedied for less than $25!!!
    I had NEVER been a General Motors fan, but this Saturn has been something else!! Thanks!
    (By the way, the last time I checked, I'm still getting a little over 36 mpg on the highway!!!)
  • blzndavblzndav Member Posts: 2
    i have a 97 4 cycl sl saturn....was wondering where the crankshaft sensor was located
  • steve1654steve1654 Member Posts: 1
    I have a 95 saturn SL1 that started leaking fluid by the filter gasket. The transmission is also hard to refill. It appears to be a venting problem. Does any one have a fix?
  • jaimiesjaimies Member Posts: 1
    I have a 1998 Saturn SC-1 with Manual transmission. I have had a huge number of issues and am not sure what the problem is. I will try to be as detailed as possible (so this may be long):

    In the last two years, I have replaced the battery, the starter, and had my power steering fixed. My car idles heavy and shudders. For the last few months, I have had starting problems; it is much worse when it is a cold start. I turn the key and the engine will turn over several times and then start. Sometimes I have to let it turn over a few times, then turn the key back, wait a second, and turn it again. The stalling problems have started around the same time (maybe a little earlier). My RPMs dance up and down with no pattern. Sometimes while in neutral, the RPMs will be so low then slowly drop until the car stalls. In these cases, I have to rev the engine to keep it running. There will be days when it stops at every stop sign or stop light, and other days that it won't stall at all (though rare). Sometimes instead of just slowing until a stall, it will dance up and down from almost stalling to "normal" quickly. During this time the electrical is affected; as the RPMs drop, the lights dim, as the RPMs rise, the lights become brighter. This low RPM and stalling problem happens about 85% of the time I drive. About 15% of the time it's basically the opposite. My engine will run so hard that I can shift through gears and drive without using the gas pedal, and while in neutral the engine roars at about 4000 to 5000 RPMs. About a week ago my car developed a new problem with starting. I turn the key and it clicks a few times and stops. All the electric goes out and my clock displays CCCCCCCC (just a bunch of C's) momentarily and then goes out. At first I thought the battery was drained, but after a few tries, it started right up (with the usual several turn overs before starting). I've found that leaving the car alone for a while and then trying to restart works a good portion of the time. Another trick that sometimes works is pumping the clutch quickly several times.

    With this plethora of problems, I just don't know what could possibly be the problem. Does anyone have any ideas, or has anyone had similar experiences?

    Thanks, in advance!

    :confuse:
  • perrymcperrymc Member Posts: 3
    First, no check engine lights or trouble codes, started having problem with the transmission being very very slow to shift to eventually slamming into gear after a delay (including reverse). I have seen this problem on other vehicles where the proper voltage was not being delivered to the tranny so I went straight to the battery posts and thoroughly cleaned them. Problem persisted and repeats because the battery is discharging. Problem goes away when the battery is fully charged. Charged battery and it tested okay at Autozone. Checkers tested the circuit in the car and received "battery not getting charge". Recleaned and inspected battery posts/cables. Discharge continues. Pulled alternator and Autozone and Checkers both tested "pass" all phases multiple times. The serpentine belt and tensioner appear in excellent condition. All connections at battery, starter and alternator appear in good condition. Battery cables appear in good condition. An Autozone tech mentioned that earlier Saturns had a harness problem with the connectors at the alternator but the '99 was not one of them. Of course, discharge accelerates when using the a/c, lights, radio ... I trickle charge every two days and stay symptom free. Has anyone had this problem and found a solution? I will entertain all suggestions at this point! Thanks to all :)
  • perrymcperrymc Member Posts: 3
    Yes, this year seems to be notorious for oil consumption ... no leaks ... just sucks it up! I have started using the high-mileage oil for older engines (its not the synthetic but it is significantly thicker - I think it contains Slick50) I also periodically us LUCAS oil treatment. All the auto stores carry them and they have cut my consumption about in half (still burns it tho!)

    You might scan Saturn Problems and Solutions to see just how common this is!
    http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.ee9975d/10
    Good luck. Sorry I couldn't figure out how to convert this to a link.
  • ice_dragonice_dragon Member Posts: 2
    :D Well, I changed the throttle position sensor and my car STARTS! YAY!!! However it's still hesitant every once in a while when I start it. It's doing the hard rough idle still. Is this due to something else? :confuse:
  • carouselcarousel Member Posts: 1
    I purchased a brand new 1996 Saturn SL1 automatic in Oct 1995 for going back and forth to high school. I serviced it regularly and have maintained it. Recently at 204,000 miles the a/c finally went out after stopping at a shadetree mechanic. The shadetree gave me an estimate to fix compressor and a/c system. Upset, I returned to the dealership, where everyone says not to take a vehicle after the age of 5 years. I had my a/c system replaced for nearly $400 less than shadetree. I am very pleased with the Saturn dealership experience even though I have to drive nearly 65 miles one way for service. Anyone that wants to keep their beloved Saturn alive should, in my experience, go to the dealership. The dealership experience, for the 11 years of maintenance so far, has averaged a cost of $89 per month. The Saturn company sends my car a birthday card every year. It may seem tacky, but my car isn't just a car, it's family. So, to close, I would recommend a well maintained Saturn for anyone looking for a cheap, dependable, and ding proof ride. I believe that almost any vehicle will last at the very least 200,000 miles given maintenance, nurturing, and the love that any proud parent would bestow upon their child. Drive safe and I may see you in my rear view mirror.
  • nate91304nate91304 Member Posts: 1
    About three days ago I bought an automatic Saturn SC2 from a used car dealership for a little less than blue book value. When I took it for a test drive it drove ok, the car was a little jumpy around 30mph though. I assumed it was the transmission but took it lightly cause the car had 177,000 miles on it when I bought it and thought it was normal for an old car.
    The next day the "service engine soon" light came on. When I drove it a little less than 5 miles and after coming into a driveway to turn around it stalled, this happened when I stopped and then slowly pressed the gas.. then.. "cauplunk".

    Today I added transmission fluid because the level was below low. Thought that that would do the trick, but unfortunately not, and the "service engine soon" light is still on. The engine oil level seems fine. But I guess whoever had the car before me drove it with below normal trans fluid and mostlikly did permanent damage. :(

    I have noticed that it does this sometimes, after I have stopped (it runs smoothly in idle) then press the gas then it stalls. And while driving the car gets jumpy around 30mph (since its a 4 speed automatic its probably 2nd gear?)
    Keeping the car in "perf" or I guess "over drive" helps to slightly reduce these chances. It feels like it tries hard to switch into first and other certain gears (like a very poor stick shift driver) This is my first car that I've had for 3 days! and besides this problem I love the car it has good pick up and is quite sporty and fast considering its automatic.

    Does this sound like a major transmission problem? or minor?
    Has anyone else experienced this problem?
    Please e-mail me.. need any help/advice.
  • ghuletghulet Member Posts: 2,564
    ...until you get it to a mechanic, because even if it is a 'minor' problem (doesn't sound too minor to me, sorry), it will no doubt be 'major' if you don't have it serviced. In any case, sorry to hear about your problem, hopefully it's not too major.

    Hate to ask, but how much is 'a little below blue book' for a ten year-old Saturn with 177k miles, anyway?
  • ghuletghulet Member Posts: 2,564
    ...but just wondering, as a general rule, what to 'watch out for' with a '95 SL2. I wasn't really in the market for a car (I live in Chicago, don't really need one), but a co-worker was getting rid of hers, it seems to run and look fine (and it's not even an ugly color), despite it's 160k miles, and the price is a practially irresistible $400. Any advice?
  • kronykrony Member Posts: 110
    I have an '01 SL2 so it'd be a generation after yours but much the same design...

    I'd be most concerned about the transmission. I spent ~$800 to have my local Saturn dealer this Spring to attempt diagnosis on funky shifting to eventually replace a shift solenoid. I read up on it quite a bit and sounds like they are a bit finicky but like most sensitive to maintenance. make sure you have your tranny professionally flushed and the trans filter replaced. If you need repairs I'd recommend a local transmission shop who has no doubt had experience on Saturns. I thought my dealer would have more expertise but I was wrong, they were crooks.

    Beyond that I think they are fairly solid. Pretty good power on the twin cam engine, I had some engine vibration at idle the same time as the trans issues and a new upper motor mount (~$200) made it smooth as new.

    For $400 I think it's a deal...
  • kronykrony Member Posts: 110
    by the way...when I say trans I'm talkin' auto...
  • kronykrony Member Posts: 110
    Sounds similar to what I had this Spring...Saturn dealer started by replacing electrical stuff (battery and cable) and sent it home. Same exact thing when I pulled off the lot. I was suspicious from the start with the "have to start with elecrical first..." They then adjusted the input nut in the transmission and sent it home. Pulled off the lot and bad 2-3 shift was fixed but still slammed in reverse. Then they replaced a solenoid and was as good as ne (after $800).

    Needless to say I wasn't impressed with their diagnosis skills, especially with what's a common problem.
  • kannenbergkannenberg Member Posts: 1
    I've been in posession of a 94 SL2 for about six years now. We paid $2500 for it then and I have been nothing but happy ever since. As long as you take good care of it, it'll last you till past the 200,000 mile mark. Mine has.
  • gmb2428gmb2428 Member Posts: 1
    Well the dealer and a trans shop say I need a new valve body. The dealer wants 1100. The trans shop says about half that.

    My question is how hard is it to swap this part out. I see u just pull the battery and tray, then take out a lot of bolts to the pan on top, so once u get in there is this something u just unbolt and replace and ur done...or is there a lot more to it???
  • kronykrony Member Posts: 110
    Can't say but doing searches on the net for my tranny problems you may find repair info. Not sure if a Haynes manual would have it in there...
  • lmljjllmljjl Member Posts: 1
    I have a 97 SL2 that has a few problems. The check engine light comes on periodically but doesn't change the way the car is runs. The cars starts great when the engine is cold. After running the engine and gets warm and shut the engine off, I have a hard time re starting the car. It cranks fine but seems to have a problem possibly with fuel getting to the engine. I was hoping that someone else has experienced this problem and could direct me to the problem.
  • bambiebambie Member Posts: 12
    I have a 97 SC1 with similar problem.When I turn the key to restart a warm engine ,I have to wait 1 or 2 seconds for the fuel guage needle to return from emty to it,s original position.At the same time,I here the fuel pump bringing the fuel pressure back up,then it starts fine.In some other types of cars,the fuel in fuel filter,vapourizes because it,s hot.May need new filter.
  • clograssoclograsso Member Posts: 1
    My 96 Saturn s2 has big-time electrical problems. The door locks are irratic and I have to manually lock and unlock them -- even then they will sometimes unlock themselves and it's a real hassle. Also the audio system says "loc" on the lcd dial and nothing works. I could sure use some advice on this.
  • jamesg2jamesg2 Member Posts: 1
    Need diagnostic assistance. My daughters 2001 SL2 was purchased new and has always been on synthetic oil. It has 109,000 miles on it and is loosing oil. I can find it just inside the tail pipe with a rag but its not smoking or blowing smoke at start-up. I tested the compression per OEM maintenance manuals (I work on everything I own) and it was 105 to 110 at all four cylinders. The manuals stated for oil consumption replace PCV valve, check compression... did both. I recently pulled the head and had it rebuilt, also replaced timing gears, chain, tensioner, guides the works while in the motor. I put it all back together thinking the valve guides were leaking oil and I was done.....wrong. Oil consumption has not slowed down and I still have no smoke indicator from the tail pipe.
    I am lost and in need of advice. HELP!
  • aardvark671aardvark671 Member Posts: 1
    my 1992 Saturn SL1 started loseing electrical power, usally when i stepped on the brake pedal. now the car wouldn't start , its a standard 5 speed so i push started it it ran fine , after bringing it back home it would not start again . i had no electrical power to anything, if i put the key into the ignition then pulled it back out there was a clicking noise coming from under the console, after putting the key in and out a few times the clicking quit and the car started fine. when i hear the clicking noise i have no electrical power to anything , but when it quits clicking i have electrical power to everything and car starts fine. any ideals? is there some kind of a relay switch under the console that would rob my electrical power to everything?
  • njsabermannjsaberman Member Posts: 2
    The best way to do this is to have someone at bestbuy or something like that do it for you. If you are dead-set on doing it yourself buy a book on your car. I have an SL1 so what it can't be much different. But what there should be a mounting adapter to fit into the slot of the old stereo if the new stereo is too small. But, If it is too big there may be some removals needed.
  • unknown_pimpunknown_pimp Member Posts: 1
    I just bought a Saturn SC2 and I was thinking about put some 17s on it with some 205/40R17 fuzion zri tires. Would this cause any problems with the suspension or the performance i should know about. THANKS!
  • jpbouchardjpbouchard Member Posts: 1
    Hey there, I don't know if you've gotten this fixed yet or not but I had the same exact problem...step on the brake while driving and the lights dim and the radio goes off...sometimes it starts and sometimes you need a jump...

    I did some investigating, checking all the fuses and checking for loose grounds...

    It turned out to be the negative terminal on the battery was loose. I didn't notice it until I went to remove the terminal before I dug into the bottome of the fuse box.

    Once I tightened it up everything ran fine after that.

    Good luck
  • paulorlopaulorlo Member Posts: 4
    The check engine soon light goes on because an error code is being set by the PCM (computer)The PCM sets these codes based on information sent to it by varios sensors.It sounds like this problem is intermittant becase the SES light goes out after awhile. If you are driving by an auto parts store when this happens, I would have them read the error codes off the PCM. Most places will do this for free. If I were to guess as to the cause of the problem, I would suspect the coolant temperature/ and/or CTS wiring harness corroded. Wiring harness is a dealer only part. This sensor tells the PCM if the motor is cold or warm or hot and the PCM adjusts the air-fuel mixture going to the motor. It may be telling the PCM that there is a cold start condition when the motor has ben running for awhile. Like putting the choke on a warm motor. Makes things hard to restart.
  • slade3slade3 Member Posts: 1
    Does anyone know where I can download a great 1994 Saturn SL2 manual? Bought the Haynes Repair Manual and it really is not that good. Too much words less pictures. Please help! Appreciate it...
  • imjustsomeguyimjustsomeguy Member Posts: 4
    I'm getting really tired of being bonged and beeped at by my 2001 SC2, every time I put my key in the ignition, don't buckle my seat belt immediately, try to listen to my stereo while parked, etc. The extremely annoying bong bong generator sounds like it's located somewhere behind or near the instrument cluster, but I don't see it when I look up under the dash.

    Hopefully it's a module that can be unplugged....before I tear the dash apart, i wonder if anyone knows exactly where this moronic module is located and whether it's easily disabled/unplugged...or (horrors!) is part of the instrument cluster itself.
  • Karen_SKaren_S Member Posts: 5,092
    A reporter from a large daily newspaper is looking to speak to current or previous Saturn owners that went to the homecoming events in Springhill, TN sometime around 1994 and 2000. Please provide your daytime contact info to ctalati@edmunds.com no later than Friday, October 20, 2006.
  • hoodlatchhoodlatch Member Posts: 255
    My daughter has a 97 SC1 she bought new. For the most part its been a tough one that has held up pretty good through out the years. She brought it to me the other day complaining about the parking lights, turn signals, brake lights, and dash lights all acting weird. At night, the dash lights wouldn't come on unless you put your foot on the brake. When you put your foot on the brake not only would the dash lights come on but all the turn signal lights would come on. To make a long story short, her paramedic partner helped her replace one of the tail lights but used a wrong bulb. This set up a short in the system which caused a feed back. After an hour of trouble shooting along with a new fuze and correct bulb it was back to normal. :shades:
  • dave117dave117 Member Posts: 1
    I have a 1999 SL2 that is having *sort* of the same issue. When I am going over ~20mph and step on the brakes I get a clicking sound and my lights flicker. The sound seems to come from somewhere in the dash (not from the brakes).

    I have checked the ABS / brake fuses and all are fine. Any suggestions on where else I should look? Is it possible for the ABS relay to be bad if none of the fuse have burned out?

    Thank you!
  • nissan7271nissan7271 Member Posts: 1
    Can anyone tell me if they have ever experienced engine "clatter" whilst driving an SL2 DOHC?
    The car was bought primarily out of necessity and as a means of transportation to and from my place of work. Last Monday, whilst performing an overtaking maneuver I was shocked to notice a loud clattering noise coming from under the hood, at first thought I considered the possibilities, lifters, valve springs, the valves themselves, the timing chain tensioner perhaps even a valve had broken but that would have lead to an engine failure. I have tried to see where the problem exists and have been driving the car for almost a week in this condition. The rattling noise occurs mostly whilst driving and the car is in gear at low revs and around a reasonable engine RPM "gearshift speed" and most rarely in 5th gear, neutral, idle and reverse there appears to be little or no unusual sound. I have heard rumour from sources at Saturn that the tensioners can clog and cause an array of issues. I have looked inside the Cylinder head cover (valve cover) and nothing appears to be untoward so far as damaged moving or static parts goes.
    My car has under 78k and is surprisingly nimble and efficient, I am so used to driving German automobiles and swore I'd never buy an American Domestic brand. Originally from London, England now I'm beginning to reconsider my driving options. Can anybody throw some light in my direction.

    Sincerely. Alex. PA.
  • motoringmamamotoringmama Member Posts: 35
    I have a '95 saturn SL2. Within the last month or so, everytime I make a tight turn either left or right, I hearing a grinding sound coming from my right wheel. It only happens with tight turns, otherwise I hear nothing. I am concerned if this could be a safety issue, like is my wheel going to just come off one day? And what is the grinding? thanks for any enlightenment. :surprise:
  • lbp47lbp47 Member Posts: 2
    James,
    Did you ever find out the problem? I have a 98 that does the same thing and would love to know...
  • kburroughskburroughs Member Posts: 1
    We have a 1999 Saturn SL1. Neither the horn nor the odometer light are working. I've checked all the fuses which relate to these malfunctions and this isn't solving the problems. Can anyone tell me what I need to do to get the horn and odometer light working again? We appreciate any help you can give us concerning this matter. Thanks!
  • lithiumed1lithiumed1 Member Posts: 2
    I have a 95 Saturn SL. I am stumped with this electrical problem that I have. I have a complete and total electrical failure while driving. I can be driving and for no desernable reason, I will have a complete failure. I can be at 2800 RPM's and it is like a shut the key off. No sputter, no anything just dead. What is funny is that my hazard lights won't turn on. I have no electical power whatsoever. I have jumped the car and with a great deal of difficulty and the car drove fine. Sitting in my driveway trying to find the problem I ran the car up to 3000 RPM and it happened again. It seems not to matter if the car has a load on it or not. The fact it happens around 3000 RPM is my only clue. If anyone has any ideas please email me. It would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
  • cwishescwishes Member Posts: 1
    Have a 1997 SL1. It was running fine until my daughters boyfriend went to replace the stereo. He cut all the wires that attached to the stereo. Now the car does not turn on. All the lights, power windows, locks etc.. are working. I have checked the fuses both under the hood and in the car and the only ones that are burned out are the radio and door chime fuses. I tried to jump the car and beat on the starter but no go. Any suggestions? Chris
  • paula8paula8 Member Posts: 2
    I have a '96 SL1 on which a brake light has just burned out, and I'm at a loss as to how to replace the bulb. There doesn't seem to be a way to get to the bulbs; inside, the trunk liner is a solid piece of plastic. Outside, there are no screws to remove the light cover. The only possibility appears to be a thin piece of rubber on the lip of the rear body (covered by the trunk lid when it's closed) that has two screw-like heads on it. Unfortunately, neither has a groove in it so it's hard to see whether these are meant to be removed.

    Is it possible to remove and replace the bulbs, or is this deliberately designed to be a "Saturn-service only" procedure?

    Many thanks for your advice.
  • andersonsk17andersonsk17 Member Posts: 1
    So i'm having a major problem with my Saturn's headlights...for some reason out of nowhere they decided not to turn off when the switch was off and the car itself was off, i never knew what to do so i'd have to pull the fuse to get them to go off so my battery wouldnt run down. that has stopped since, but now the right headlight is out. so i replaced it but it still won't work. now the only way both day-time running lights come on is when im pushing on the lightbulb connector thing,and even then, the right headlight portion still wont turn on, just the day-time light. i dont know whats going on!! any suggestions?! :confuse:
  • wevridgewevridge Member Posts: 2
    Died on hwy. Replaced CBad coil. Now Good Fire on all four. But won't start. 6 or 7 revs and soaks plugs. Regulator not leaking. All scanner readings look good.
  • mike314mike314 Member Posts: 1
    :confuse: I bought a 1997 sc2 with 120k on it. The service engine soon light will not go out. the trany will down shift from 4th to 2nd when you hit about 45 mph..If you remove the single wire (ground wire?) from the neutral safety switch assy. the car shifts properly. I have had it to Saturn and was told the valve body was shot. I drove it to a local shop and had the valve replaced..same problem..any Ideas??
  • casualkcasualk Member Posts: 4
    Hi. Did you ever find out what the problem was with your car. My car is having the exact same problem now? Thanks

    Khadijah: dvprivok@dcsc.gov
  • biggunbiggun Member Posts: 1
    I am havind the same sort of problems on a 93 wagon. It starts and runs fine but when you put your foot on the brakes it kills the engine and ther turn signal lights come on although the turn signals and 4 way flashers are off. I am kinda puzzled
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