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Saturn S-Series

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Comments

  • bhanabhana Member Posts: 1
    I had (until yesterday) a 93 SL, and have to say it is the most unreliable car we have ever had. We enjoyed the handling and feel of it, when it worked... and certainly the service people are good, and the cost of repair at the dealership is actually relatively reasonable. Which is a good thing, because we've spent a lot of time there.

    The air conditioning needed to be refilled every summer... they couldn't find out what was wrong with it, and refilled it for free the first three times (in two years), but after that it cost plenty. The driver's side window mechanism snapped, twice. The rotors needed replacing in 96, 98 and 99. The bucket seats began to break down after three years, the weatherstripping and interior molding started coming off after two... and were not covered by the warranties. The clutch had to be fixed, the exhaust system had several problems, the battery died after two years, the tires had to be replaced frequently, the problems just went on and on... we were in the garage every other month. Bad enough when the repairs were covered by the warranties, but afterwards it got very expensive. Finally the timing chain jumped and smashed the engine... a $4000 problem that is not worth bothering with for this particular black hole.

    The worst part was that in 96 I was rear ended in a very minor fender bender, and the seat adjustor gear stripped, snapping me backwards at high velocity and tearing several of the disks in my spine. The guy at the body shop said that he got this problem frequently with the older SLs, and he couldn't understand why the company never recalled them or offered to replace them, though they had eventually redesigned them to fix the problem.

    When we first got our SL I had loved the drive and comfort of the car, and recommended it to several family members and friends... I had read the consumer reports and believed that it was a reliable car. Unfortunately they have had much the same experience with theirs, saying that the car was decent for the first three years but that at that point they quickly fell apart. None of us will be buying Saturns again.
  • dhanleydhanley Member Posts: 1,531
    That non-timing belt you had replaced was the serpentine belt. I think indie shops will do it for 40-50 bucks. Bhana: I am sorry you had so many problems with your car. I would guess your dealer gave poor service; it seems like there are often clusters of upset owners for particular brands. My saturn is fine at 80K miles, no repairs, and several friends who have them are similarly happy with relaibility. But this is with a few specific dealers, and with my self-servicing. Who knows, though.

    dave
  • ken1776ken1776 Member Posts: 41
    I am not satisfied with the response from the Regional Service Rep. concerning my recently blown motor at 83k miles. Want to take it to a higher level, so I would like to go right to the top. Can any one give me the name of the C.E.O. or any other top level manager. Called there usless 1-800 No. best they would do is give me the usless Regional Service Rep.
  • ken1776ken1776 Member Posts: 41
    Sorry spellcheck did not catch sp. of 'useless"
  • saturnboysaturnboy Member Posts: 89
    Many of the earlier Saturns had terrible poor fit and finish, such as weather stripping falling off, poor quality seats, misalined door trim, which is common on all american cars. As far as the majority of Saturn engines, more often then not, they will do the distance with little or no trouble. Brakes have been a problem also, but in many cases they will replace them even out of warranty because they know of this problem. Many will frequent this site to post gripes about their cars, but the majority of Satisfied Saturn owners, over 2 million to be exzact, will not come here, because they are happy with their cars and see no reason to speak about it.
  • vidividi Member Posts: 1
    We're looking for a used car and there's a 96 SL1
    with ABS brakes and traction control that looks
    good. However, I had a Subaru Legacy and did not
    like it's ABS brakes at all: it took much too long
    to stop the car on a slick road. I felt that on the Subaru, ABS brakes could get you into more trouble than they could keep you from.
    Anyone know how the ABS brakes and traction control on a Saturn are?
  • travelertraveler Member Posts: 67
    I have a 99 sl2 with them and this is the first car I've owned that had these options. My driving is in the northeast and I feel that they work very good. Might help in knowing what year subaru you had, a lot of improvements are made even in just one rear on abs and traction control.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    Anyone out there bought or tried out a 2000 SL? They have apparently been upgraded this year, as well as being re-styled.
  • saturnboysaturnboy Member Posts: 89
    I have driven the 2000 Saturn SC2, it is just like the 99 model , except it has a restyled exterior, as well as a more user friendly interior. Also, more standard features, theft deterrent, bigger tires, more cup holders, mostly minor but good improvements. I heard a rumor, and saw in a magazine that Saturn is coming out with a completely new S series in 2001, new 2.0 liter engine, new body, new platform, anyone else heard of this ?? ?
  • timc1timc1 Member Posts: 2
    My understanding is that Saturn will use the new GM delta platform for the S series in 2002, but will retain the 1.9 liter engine. Has anyone else heard this?
  • macarthur2macarthur2 Member Posts: 135
    I have seen this car but cannot remember it's name. The styling is bland and it blends in with so many of the Japanese/American cars that it's hard to tell one from another. The chasis is European (Opel I think). About the size of the Chevrolet Malibu and to me looks toooooo much like it. Does have V6 power if you don't mind paying right up against 20k for it.
    I'm not impressed - there are a lot more cars out there in that range that impress me more.
    And I still STRONGLY DISLIKE Saturns no hassle price policy. Around here the dealers pack added worthless "dealer added" items on and still will not come off their inflated price.
  • macarthur2macarthur2 Member Posts: 135
    Before I would think Saturn I would drive a new Toyota Corolla. It's just my opinion but I am impressed for the money.
    ron
  • saturnboysaturnboy Member Posts: 89
    As a former Toyota owner, I was not impressed with Toyota. My Celica GT started leaking oil at around 55,000 miles, a friend of mine had a Corrolla which started leaking oil after 5 years of ownership. Is this value, I think not. For the number one [non-permissible content removed] maker of automobiles, I was very disapointed. So I moved to Saturn, and it has been the best car I have ever had. The service is second to none, and when I ask for something from the dealer, not only do I expect to get it, they deliver, Saturn has met all promises they made at the time of the sale, and I plan on buying another Saturn.
  • jjajgeorgiajjajgeorgia Member Posts: 3
    Alas, the end is near for my trusty 94 SL. It is now past 230,000 miles with only a clutch and one alternator ever being replaced. Mind you it still runs great, however, a one ton Ford E-350 van just had to rear end me in Atlanta traffic last Friday. The damage is estimated to be near $3000. Much more than it is worth. I fear my poor Saturn has finally met its match. If the insurance company has their way, it will be totaled and I will have a small down payment for my next one.
  • macarthur2macarthur2 Member Posts: 135
    You just might want to check on what all the auto test magazines say about these two. The Saturn usually comes out last for noisy engine, poor road isolation, poor ergonomics. I follow this stuff pretty closly and there really is not much of a contest between the two.
    And many people are put off with Saturn dealers who tag on "dealer extras" and act as if they are a part of the non-negotiable sticker price. The non-negotiable sticker price should be a big turn off to most of us. Using that logic I would have paid $27,283 for my last car instead of the $24,283 that I paid. No thanks, if I can't negotiate then I won't consider the car no matter how good it is.
  • saturnboysaturnboy Member Posts: 89
    To each his own, you say potato, I say potata........................... Every consumer has the right to their own choice. More power to you.
  • macarthur2macarthur2 Member Posts: 135
    For a good overview of customer satisfaction on Saturn quality just review all of the 67 entries before this one. Then make up your own mind. Sure the dealers treat you right, they made $2500-$3000 profit when they sold you the car, they can afford to give you good service.
  • saturnboysaturnboy Member Posts: 89
    I assume since your shopping for a buick le sabre as posted in your file that your from an older generation so you can understand that your attacks on Saturn mean nothing. Your not going to hurt loyal Saturn owners, the company, their reputation by using this forum as a sounding board for your opinions, which is what they barely sum up to. So why don't you leave. IF you have nothing positive to say , and all you do is verbally bash Saturn, Saturn owners, you have no reason nor right being here.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    Just checked out the 2000 SL models at the Toronto Auto Show. I love how they have changed the interior which is clearly better then most small cars I sat in. Much better than the Civic.
  • saturnboysaturnboy Member Posts: 89
    Glad to hear it dindak, spread the word :-)
  • travelertraveler Member Posts: 67
    Although I bought a 99 SL2, looked at the 2K models and the interior is much better in style and ease of use of the controls (radio and heater ac controls don't look like an afterthought). Still will drive my 99 for at least more than 150k miles.Currently have just over 18k and no minor or major problems.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    I'm looking to replace our second car (a 89 Honda Accord) with a 2000 Saturn SL. I was thinking of a bigger car but given gas prices and the fact it's a second car, I think the SL will do just fine. I was quite impressed with the entire Saturn line I saw at the show.
  • saturnboysaturnboy Member Posts: 89
    Dindak, there is no time like the present to buy your SL. Have you driven one yet?? The Saturn SL has consistantly had the lowest maintenance costs in its class, rated by www.intellichoice.com and they earned the highest rating possible for frontal crash tests for both driver and passenger by www.nhtsa.com Plus the service cannot be beat. Good luck.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    Saturnboy: Ya, I've seen that before. They actually put 3.9% finance/lease rates on the SLs a in December here in Ontario. Not a bad incentive. Now I just have to wait and see about my new job prospect.
  • macarthur2macarthur2 Member Posts: 135
    Sound like a Saturn salesperson to me. Sad you have to sell your product in a public forum.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    I am a financial advisor, not a car salesman. Even if I was, aren't Saturn employees suppose to be a salaried???

    Might want to think before you make comments like that about another person Saturnboy!
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    Sorry... thought that was aimed at me. I think Saturnboy is just keen about Saturns. Don't knock him macarthur.
  • saturnboysaturnboy Member Posts: 89
    I don't feel the need to defend myself against faceless people in this forum, I am not a Saturn Salesman, althou the only thing I have to say to Macarthur2, is in a Saturn friendly way, I am sorry that you do not realize all that Saturn has to offer to smart consumers, but have a nice day. Enjoy your buick, hope it doesn't let you down. May the sun shine on you
  • macarthur2macarthur2 Member Posts: 135
    Thanks, after all this is a Town Hall meeting place and people are allowed to express their own opinions whether others agree or not. It's the simplist form of Democracy. I cruise the web a lot and especially into cars - kind of a hobby studing these things. We get way too excited over these things. Hey, after all it's only made of metal, glass and plastic. We don't live through the machine, and it is not our personality, and it can't help us be a better person, it is there to serve us. Buy what you want but research first. Read the roadtests etc.. Good luck
  • macarthur2macarthur2 Member Posts: 135
    If I go looking for a house I don't just buy one from one builder without comparing it to others first. I still think that anyone shopping in any car catagory should narrow the search to three different vehicles, say for instance Saturn, Toyota Corolla, and Nissan Altima then go drive them. Don't blindly go on something as vapor like as brand loyalty. Dad drove a Pontiac, Grandpa did too - so Pontiac must be the only car for me. (That is just an example so as not to offend Pontiac owners) But that kind of mindset prevails in many instances. You personally drive the car, at least 15 miles on several kinds of pavement, without the radio on and listen to it for noise and get a feel for its structural rigidity. This is probably going to be the second biggest expenditure of your life.
  • j_colemanj_coleman Member Posts: 143
    Here are the items we have had fixed on my wife's '96 SL (with A/C). It now has 43K miles and all of these items were repaired when it was under warranty.

    @18K Fluid leaks under car - replaced right transaxle seal, replaced end cover transaxle gasket

    @30K Accelerator sticking - replaced throttle body gasket

    @30K Passenger A/C vent broke - replaced deflector outlet

    @30K Driver side mirror stuck - replaced driver side mirror

    Everything else has been routine maintenance. It still has the original brakes too. They seem to last forever. Original tires are nearing the end of their life.
  • travelertraveler Member Posts: 67
    I bought my saturn sl2 new in April 99, and I have close to 19k miles. Have changed oil about every 3k miles and rotated tires about every 6k miles. It runs fine and at times I get above the epa highway mileage of 36 mpg. It is a nice riding car and is relatively quit at 65 on the highway. You can hear the backseat passenger without yelling to each other. Possibly tires play a big role in noise as I have true snow tires on front and they do hum compared to the original firestones.
    I did drive a sentra, cavaliar, escort and a neon besides the saturn. In my opinion, the cavaliar was the only one that was similar in quietness and acceleration as the saturn. I was careful to drive comparably equiped cars, 4 cylinder, automatic,air,pspb etc.
    I bought the saturn because when I compared all given costs and used the epa mpg figures driving the car for 150k miles the saturn was no more expensive than the cavaliar even though the price was about 1100 more than the cavaliar.
  • bunsenbunsen Member Posts: 1
    I dropped by this discussion while I was trying to get an estimated value of my 94 SL1. There seems to be a lot of positive feelings toward saturn, but I guess I am the unlucky one. I have 65k miles and although I have meticulously maintained my car at the local dealer, and used only major brand gasoline, I am loosing about a quart of oil every 500 miles. I am currently trying to figure out if I should spend a couple grand to repair the rings or whatever is wrong, or install a new engine. What bugs me is that it has been loosing oil since 45k and still under warranty, but the dealership (Austin, TX) chose to replace almost every external seal (without a difference in oil loss) but only after it was out of warranty did they choose to do the pressure test that showed that a major repair was needed. I would love to have the same enthusiasm for Saturn that I had when I first purchased the car, but, unfortunately, this car will be the last saturn I ever own.
  • saturnboysaturnboy Member Posts: 89
    sorry to hear that, my friends 94 Saturn uses 2 quarts every 3k, but it has 147,000 miles on it so I guess she has got her money's worth. Saturn's aren't perfect, but the shocker is , honda's aren't either/ ask owners of prelude's how they liked their electrical problems, and ask civic owners how they liked being taken advantadge of nearly every time they visited the dealer for routine maintenance. The grass isn't always greener.
  • 94saturn94saturn Member Posts: 7
    Purchased a Saturn SL2, 94 in September 99 with 45000 miles on it. Was very happy that got a good deal, plus it sounded and drove great. In a month or so everything started to break.One of the few problems we had is a whining noise that makes me nuts. It was really quite when we got it, but after replacing an alternator, it's started to whine. Gets worse and worse every day, but the dealer said that it's normal. Looked at Saturn recalls, and indeed it is one of their problems- whining noise. Also shifts very hard which didn't do before. Not happy with the Saturn at all. Maybe expected too much out of it since it's " different kind of car". Looking at purchasing Toyota 4 runner. Maybe Japanese are more careful with building the car and putting "bad" parts in. The cost is much higher, but I think it's worth it.
    Last thing wanted to point out is that the dealers are not different from any others. I could even say they are worse( at least the one that we dealt with). They have an answer on every question you have, and the question are not the ones that we would like to hear. Almost like lawyers.
    Anyway... Tried it, didn't like it, moving on.
  • rdeschenerdeschene Member Posts: 331
    bunsen. The dealer may have wanted to only replace the internal seals, for obvious reasons, but you should have pushed and fought for a better diagnosis and to have the problem resolved. It's a P.O. that you were treated this way by the dealer, but you really have to be looking out for your own interest all of the time.

    It may not be too late. It might be worthwhile contacting the B.B.B., etc. to see what your options are.
  • 94saturn94saturn Member Posts: 7
    Hey, it sounds like the Saturn Dealer we went to. Always saying we are crazy and that the problem is normal. I have no idea if it's normal or not, but I wouldn't buy it if it was there before. The mechanic even said that the noisier the sound, the better. His explanation was that it is an alternator charging the battery. Also he said that if there were no noise, we would have a major problem then ( yeah right). Anyway... that's all I can tell you.
  • claryclary Member Posts: 18
    I drive a 1997 SW2 w/five speed. Use syntheric oil (Quaker State Ultra Premium Synthetic) and have an Amsoil foam air filter. Get about 33.5 mpg and wonder if anyone has recommendations to milk another 1 or 2 miles per gallon out of the car. By the way, it has 51,800 miles and I have 35 lbs air in the tires.
  • sau1sau1 Member Posts: 10
    Someone wanted the name of Saturn's CEO so he can write to her to complain. Her name is Cynthia Trudell. Don't be too harsh on her, since she is struggling with sagging sales, increasing customer complaints, internal politics, etc. etc.
  • rdeschenerdeschene Member Posts: 331
    clary. Generally speaking, smooth gradual acceleration and not revving the engine will get you the best mileage. I don't know if that's your driving style or not. Depending on the car, reducing highway speeds can also make for better mileage - less likely with a 5spd though.

    The mileage you're getting seems pretty reasonable for stop-and-go driving, although 10mpg low if you have long, steady speed, highway stretches. Hope this helps.
  • floridianfloridian Member Posts: 219
    sau1: Poor Ms. Trudell. Leave it to GM to dump a failing venture into the lap of some hapless neophite manager. Now they can blame "that woman" for their plunging sales and big dud LS cars. Don't know who preceeded her in the position she's in but HE should be mopping floors at sone DELPHI plant for not standing up to the crazy old farts at GM headquarters who think they know how to run a car company. Alas, it has always been thus with the "General" Maby someone will finally take note when the market share drops into the teens.

    Floridian
  • 94saturn94saturn Member Posts: 7
    Hey,
    My Saturn has stopped today again. This is the second time it does it. The first time was a month ago. Saturn's mechanic replaced the spark plugs( said it was misfiring), but it did it again this morning, and I don't see why. When I press on the accelerator it stalls. It is so strange. Anybody knows what it might be?
    94Saturn
  • saturnboysaturnboy Member Posts: 89
    Most people fail to realize how difficult it is to run a company, no less a Car Company. The working people of the world often forget or overlook the challenges/problems that people like Cynthia Trudell are trying to fix. She is just a human being doing the best she can. Posts like 93 sum up how cruel, and insensitive people can be, often too demanding, too critical to accomplish anything of real meaning. When's the last time any of you ran a car company?
  • claryclary Member Posts: 18
    The asertyion is made that, at least as far as sales are concerned, the L series is a dud. Where can one find the monthly or quarterly sales numbers of a car such as the LW or LS? I am curious to see how these are really selling. As far as postings go, people seem generally pleased with this new car.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    Saturn's problem is it produces a midsize sedan in a very competitive segment and it produces a compact car in a market that is in decline. If gas prices stay high ($1.50+/gal), the S-series sales should pick up. As for the LS-series, eventually people will catch on to them and sales should pick up. The cars are good and the new ads should raise some awareness.
  • floridianfloridian Member Posts: 219
    Saturnboy: You missed the point of my post. I have nothing but great empathy for Ms. Tredell. It's the jerks at the top management positions at GM that should by now KNOW how to run a car company. It seems they do not. Otherwise why would they continue to introduce bland, uninspired vehicles like the new Saturn LS,Malabu,Impala (LOL) and that "thing" they call a Monte Carlo (LOL again)they continue to slog along with the SC/SL antique designs and don't even plan to update the Cav/Sunfire platforms until 2004/2005? Plus they will pull Saturn down to their level of mediocrity by making Saturn share that platform. So much for originality in the Saturn line. The LS line nothing but a "warmed over" German Opel with the overated plastic body panels hung on it. I thought one great advantage of the plastic panels was quick, easy,styling changes. Why then the virtually invisible styling of the LS cars. GM had a great chance to really make a styling statement with the intro of those cars and of course they have shot themselves in the foot again. Will they ever learn ?? I have a 1998 SC2 and it's a OK car but surely nothing to write home about.

    Floridian, that's the way I see it.
  • saturnboysaturnboy Member Posts: 89
    I understand your point, The Saturn LS in my opinion is outstanding for excellent ride/handling quality, features for the dollar, and the styling has the traditional Saturn "Swoopyness" which I have grown to like very much. Saturn needs $$$ and they are getting alot of it from GM. So basically GM is controlling what Saturn does, and when. It is a shame that they are not as different as they used to once be. However in my opinion they will always be different in their own way. I think that LS sales are slow, due to lack of advertising, and many who bought Saturns during 92-95, their highest sales years, still own them . If they don't rust , why sell them >? The people that had older Saturns and moved up to midsize probably haven't even finished paying for their 3 or 4 year old toyota's and honda's. The only reason why Saturn lost that huge market is because they didn't have a midsize car when once loyal Saturn owners wanted a bigger car. Saturn has to attract new buyers, and they are having difficulty but I strongly hope they overcome it. Saturn still has alot going for them, I support them, and will most likely continue to do so by telling friends, family about the Saturn difference, and by buying another Saturn .
  • travelertraveler Member Posts: 67
    About your constant whine, if you have the automatic, it does emit a gear whine other items to check; the airpump, see if it shuts off after 1-3 minutes after a cold start as it has a high pitched whine or possibly a bad tension pulley bearing. Do some investigating of your own, a little time of your own can help the mechanic find the culprit for your whine. If still not satisfied wuth dealer, find a good independant repair shop (they can be found) and have them check it out.
  • ken1776ken1776 Member Posts: 41
    Thanks Saul I posted sometime back after my 95 SL II blew it's motor at 83,000. Lower end shot, bad rings, can't wait for the 94 and 95 models to mature. Bet the service technicians will become real good at rebuilding these motors. By the way, went in for 2,000 mile oil change after the motor was rebuilt and walked out $250.00 poorer. The old corroded distributor wire story. The good news is it's running good now. As far as the letter to Cynthia Trudell. Well lets just say it wont be a happy Saturn story.
  • tomcat630tomcat630 Member Posts: 854
    The compact car market is NOT, reapeat NOT in decline. It's not as big as the 80's, but it's not disappearing like SUV worshippers think. Every Civic and Corolla made is sold and the ford Focus is a huge hit, for example. Only the Mini class, like the Chevy Metro, are faltering.

    I get tired of all the trendy "analysts" predicting "90% SUV sales in 5 years!" and "truck sales will go up forever, so all car models should be dropped"

    The Saturn SL is slipping mainly since its an old design. Also, the LS is "invisible" to
    Cam-cord and Civ-olla shoppers. Saturn was expected to only offer the S-series at first, and then then owners were supposed to "move up" to Oldsmobiles. It took a lot of arm twisting to get the LS and the future SUV. I hope it's not too late.
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