Saturn S-Series

afk_x · April 2001

Funny thing is if you wanted another Saturn (I know you don't) you could trade it in and have equity. We love to get coupes at our dealership on trade. We literally sell them as fast as we get them in.

I'm still a bit confused tho. Why is it that everyone REFUSES to drive the car? Is it really that bad? I have driven the focus back to back with the Saturn SL2 and I actually liked the Saturn better.

floridian · April 2001

afk x:heck, I dunno, none of my employees just seemed to like the Saturn, especially when we got the six ZX3 hatchbacks into the fleet. There is NO comparison between the the two vehicles. The Fords are superior in EVERY way that I can see and I am not especially a Ford fan either. They excell in handling, fit and finish,NVH, and low,low noise levels @ highway speeds. A truly remarkable piece of engineering on Ford's part. No wonder they are the single largest seller in the world !! We have from 10K miles to 40K miles on them and NOT one single problem of any kind so far and the MPG is great (36mpg)in overall driving. Anyway, someone will get e "free" 1998 SC2 @ the picnic in july and it will be off my books.

Floridian

afk_x · April 2001

I just drove them back to back around the block, so I have no idea about highway speed noise levels. You are right that Ford has a winner on its hands, hard to argue with the level of the Focus sales.

The SL-2 / SC2 does have some key advantages however.

Saturn has better acceleration - crash test results (and LOTS of real world crash test results), and extremely low cost of ownership.

Of course I would be remiss if I failed to mention that the plastic panels Saturn owners enjoy keep the car dent free for many many many many many years. Funny thing is I have yet to see a dent in a panel. (Have seen dents on roofs)

Also you are comparing the 98 SC2 to a 2000 Focus. Saturn made large strides in quieting the engine in 99 and finalized it in 2000. Truely there is no comparison between a 98 and a 2000 for the smoothness and quietness of the engines. In fact when on the highway I am always impressed with how quiet my 2000 Saturn is! It is a LOT quieter than my wifes 98 Altima.

Lastly the level of Satisfaction you will recieve from the Sales department *ranked #1* which is mildly important - and the Service department *#1 by CR and #2 by J.D. Powers* which can change your ownership perspective forever.

Good night

amelamed67 · April 2001

I took possession of my 2001 Saturn SL1 last night. So far so good... Needless to say, I had the most pleasant buying experience, EVER!!!! Everyone was very professional and friendly, right down to the service staff, and even the car wash staff!!!

What can I say, I think I'm hooked.

floridian · April 2001

afk x: I agree with most of the points you make. The noise I refer to is mostly "road noise" or road rumble, not really from the engine. The newer engines are indeed smoother and quieter than the 1998 mill. The noise from the "grained" surfaces on the secondary roads in Florida and Georgia are murder to my ears and I have avoided long trips in the SC2 and signed-out one of the "Foci" instead, much quieter !!

As to the low cost of ownership (at least on the '98)I think it has to be worse than most other econoboxes now out there. The recommended service intervals of oil change @ 3000mi,replace spark plugs @ 30,000 mi (most others are using platinum plugs that easly go 100K) and tranny service @ 30K does not a low cost maintenance vehicle make in my book. The timing chain vs a belt is a nice touch tho. Warranty will be voided if these intervals not followed. I feel this is juat a ploy to boost service revenue for Saturn. That's ok, they have to eat too I guess, but not on my nickle, LOL. If you factor in the disappointing resale (IMHO)then the Saturns are merely just another el-chepo GM rag tag attempt at building a small car. For the money a Cavalier or Sunfire, even allowing for the dismal reliability (GM again) of these cars, are a better buy.I do have a neat keepsake in the form of a color picture on a 1998 calandar of me taking delivery @ the dealer plus they do send me a birthday card on the anniversary date of the car and all those donuts and coffee in the customer lounge have to acccount for something,yes ?? LOL Good luck with yours.

Floridian

afk_x · April 2001

Very good point. The Suspension used on the Saturns is very dated. Interestingly enough Honda just went away from their wishbone to a setup similar to what Saturn uses.

As for mine, its a lease and I don't plan on buying it out. I'm going for an F150.

mm66 · April 2001

We just got a 92 SL2 with about 110,000 on it. It's burning oil excessively. About a quart in 150-200 miles. There appears to be no oil leak - and the exhaust is not showing a consistent trail of blue. Just a puff of blue once in a while - so little, that I didn't notice anything alarming in over an hour of test driving. Seems to run great or we wouldn't have bought it. I knew that SL's had a history of oil burning, so I wasn't scared off by the little bit of blue exhaust I did see while testing it. Any suggestions (besides new engine) on what I can do to slow the burning process?

j_coleman · April 2001

Loss of oil may just be a leaky gasket somewhere you don't see. It may not be a big deal. At 110K miles I would expect some leaks. Have it checked out by a good mechanic if you have one...

mm66 · April 2001

Although it doesn't leave a single drop of oil when it's parked in my driveway & oil is not openly visble under the hood, we have figured it's leaking WHILE running only. What gave it away was oil inside the right wheel well & extremely fine drops along the passenger side outer body. Time to pressure wash & fiond the leak.... Thanks anyway.

orangelebaron · April 2001

I have experience replacing power window motors, regulators and flexi-racks in two different LeBarons I have owned. It is a MAJOR P.I.T.A. to do. Anyway, yesterday, my 1991 Saturn SL2's
drivers window failed, in the down position, of course. It already had partially stripped gear teeth, but now the motor is dead.

So.... I have to drill out frozen screw heads to get the panel off. I FINALLY get the partially damaged panel off and I find out you have to take the outer skin of the door off to get to the regulator!!! But the star screws for the skin won't budge!!! So I think, "well let me look at the switches in the console." There is no visible or easy way to get the switch module out, so my friend and I take apart the console to get the module out. We find out I could have pried it out with a screwdriver with a little damage.

Anyway, we take apart the switch module for a look and all these little metal and plastic parts start falling into crevices in the car! After we accidently rolled another window down.
I don't think there was anything wrong with the switches anyway. I should stop complaining about my Chrysler, it was easier and the switch wasn't made up of all little fly away parts.

Now I'm trying to put the console back together and it does not want to comply. As I'm trying to reassemble it, more parts are jamming, or falling out! So now, I have two windows down, parts of a console sticking up and a mess of a door. And my LeBaron (my original P.O.S.) needs a fuel pump!

So.... some advice, before, you start to try to fix power windows on a Saturn.
DON'T !!!!!!! Unless you know how.

Anybody want a 1991 SL2 93,000 miles
on Long Island, runs well, needs you to get it fixed, I give up!!!

Gary

dhanley · April 2001

I took the doors of my SL2 apart to install speakers. I would NOT advise that anyone do this unless you already know how. If a part inside the door broke, i would smile and have the dealer do it. It's very hard to access much of the inside mechanics, and it's also hard to reassemble it properly.

dave

floridian · April 2001

Tinker-toy door pieces parts. So much for LOW cost of ownership eh ?

Floridian

93saturnsl1 · May 2001

Does anyone know what would make my Saturn ping? It did it around 88k due to a bad coolant temp. sensor, which I replaced. Its started doing it again, and that sensor is OK. I know I could use premium gas, but I'd rather fix the problem than just cover it up with that. It's a '93 SL1 with 166,000 on the odo, and still runs great except for the pinging, and I still get about 35mpg in the city leadfooting it with some a/c use. Thanks for any info!!

floridian · May 2001

93saturnsl1: My 1998 has begun to do that too. Since it's goung back to the lessor (good riddence)I don't plan to do anything about it tho. From past experience it is most likely a bad EGR valve. Not real expensive to fix tho.

Floridian

lvbearam · May 2001

So,I bought myself a Saturn (and so far, no buyers remorse)!
I owned a 1993 Ford Escort that has done well for me for the past five years, with nearly 100 thousand miles on the clock. I was going to keep it a while longer, but the automatic seat belt system broke on the drivers side, leaving me without a shoulder belt. I was given an estimate of 500 dollars to fix it! Forget it, I thought. It was time to buy a new car. I was going to buy a Ford Focus, but the Ford dealer didn't seem to want to deal with me (their loss). I checked out the competition--Civic, Corolla, Prism, Protege and Sentra. OK, but a bit on the boring side for me. On the way home, I decided to stop by my local Saturn dealer. Two hours later (with little BS), I drove away in a 2000 SL1 and got 25-hundred dollars for my Escort. I love the car; it's quiet (though a bit noisy when revved up); handles well (it has larger tires and wheels) and is comfortable. The car was owned by a couple who traded it in after 12-thousand miles for the larger L series. (It still has the balance of the factory warranty; I was pushed into buying an extended warranty but I've decided to wait for now.)
I will check back in the months and (hopefully) years to come to let you know about the "Saturn Experience". One thing I was very pleased about: My new car will cost the same to insure as my old Escort did, thanks to its safety features. Believe me, peace of mind lets me sleep a little better as I make those payments for the next five years!

lnd1403 · May 2001

I am going tomorrow to buy a 2001 SC1 coupe and I wanted to get some feed back has anyone purchased a 2001 and what do you think. What was you finally price and did you get the optional package on there?

dhanley · May 2001

Can be due to carbon build-up in the pistons.

Supposedly the best additive is techron. Chevron markets it and pits it in their gas, though i don't know how much. I use chevron gas, and i have never had carbon build-up.

Revign the engine high blows ther carbon out as well. As a frequent visitor to mr. redline, that's likely another reason i never have carbon build up.

dave

300silverbulit · May 2001

Congrats on your SL1. I have a 94 SL2 with 105 on it and it runs like new, the ride is a little harsh but it is a compact car. Don't bother with the extended warranty. For the money (what a grand or more) it is not worth it just to extend the warranty for another two years. Just absolutley change the oil/filter every 3k miles and your Saturn will run for a very long time.

salisman · May 2001

I own a 93 Saturn SL1 that was bought new. It only has 60,000 miles on it and it still runs fine. Sure it doesn't have much power, but you know what, it's an inexpensive compact car. I've read so many posts by people complaining about how cheap it's made, how flimsy it is... please give me a break! If you wanted a top-line, no-problem vehicle, it doesn't exist. As for orangelebaron, you really shouldn't have taken apart your car. Just because you've had experience doing it on other vehicles, they are not all alike. Now you want to sell a car you messed up. Funny. For those of you thinking about a Saturn, I say do it. It may no be the absolute best vehicle out there, but for the money and service, you can't go wrong with Saturn... just my two cents :-)

93saturnsl1 · June 2001

Only 60K on a '93?? Mine just flipped 168,000 on a road trip the other day, and still running like new. I played leap frog with a new Focus on the interstate, steadily running between 95 and 98 mph for about 30 minutes with the a/c on.. and still managed to get 37.2 mpg when I filled up. I just replaced the EGR valve, which was making it ping.....thanks floridian. I always thought it was bad, but it's a heck of a lot harder to get to on the SOHC vs the DOHC... and more expensive also. This car still never ceases to amaze me; its been more reliable than some of my friends' '99 and 2000 vehicles.

danili16 · June 2001

Hey everyone,

I recently purchased a '96 Saturn SL2, 5-speed, 66,000 miles. I've heard very mixed reviews on it- especially that model year (being the first year of the redesign). I've noticed a few problems so far, and other saturn owners seem to have had the same ones over and over again, so I was wondering if anyone could diagnose exactly what's going on.

1) from the day I got it, the idle has been rough. It idles normally at 700-800rpm, and the idle doesn't waver at all. However, when at a stop in Neutral when the car has been driven for 10 minutes or more, (especially rested on an incline), the engine seems to "sputter." It has never died, and the RPM's have never dropped significantly, but it shakes pretty badly every few seconds. It may be unrelated, but every so often, I lose quite a bit of power in the upper rev's, and basically all the time there's no power under 5,0000...I have had the plugs and wires replaced (bosch platinum +4)

2) I think it's the heat shield, but whenever the engine vibrates (when you first rev the engine for acceleration or after you let off the gas and the idle returns to normal) significantly, there is a metallic "clanging" sound. I hope it's not the motor mounts...

3) When coasting to a stop, only with the windows shut and the car silent, there is an intermittent "scraping" noise coming from the front left wheel well that speeds up/slows down with the speed of the car.

4) I've heard these cars are naturally loud, but this is not normal...The exhaust has been replaced from the catalytic converter back, and there are no holes in the head pipe---yet especially when at idle, it sounds like there's a hole in it. Could it be the mounts or is this just a normal thing? I heard they improved noise for '97...

5) Whenever I go over an uneven or ridged spot in the road when cornering at over literally 5mph, the car seems to lose control and "jump". Is this normal, or are my rear shocks gone?

and finally,
6) The brakes have a HORRIBLE shudder when braking from over 50mph...My friend has the exact same problem in his '93 SL2, as does my other friend in his '94 SC1...The front pads and rotors were just replaced. Is this normal?

If anyone could answer any or all of these questions, I would really appreciate it. Thanks!!
-Dan
Dabuxba@ilstu.edu

dhanley · June 2001

I had almsot the exact saem car ( mine was an automatic )

You definitely have warped brake rotors.. Happened to me twice, and i'm easy on brakes.

Sounds to me like the engine mounts are bad.. Normal because the engine vibrates so much.

I'd suggest fixing those, then seeing which other problems persist.

dave

93saturnsl1 · June 2001

I think the 1st problem listed could be the EGR valve. They're pretty notorious for going out in Saturns. It went out in our '95 SL2 at about 50k. It all of a sudden lost power going up a hill, and idled pretty rough until we got it replaced. The 3rd problem is probably the wheel bearing, which also seems notorious for going out. Mine has never gone out, but it did on a friend's '92 SL1 with about 155k on it. It was so bad it sounded like a train....they let it go way too long. And lastly it does sound like the rotors need to be turned, that's usually the 1st culprit when there's shuddering from high speed braking.

soggydog · June 2001

I have the same problem with my 96 SL2 with only 45K. It is the right rear wheel bearing. I jacked the car up so I could spin the tires by hand, I could hear the same noise and it does not spin as freely as the the Lt side. Just to make sure it wasn't the brakes dragging, I took off the brake drum, same thing.
The bearing is pressed in and you have to change the spindle assy. I called saturn, they said $130. for the part and about $70. labor. He also said it is common problem, in fact on that day they had already replaced two spindles. Don't know if the spindle is available from other parts stores.
I live about 50 miles from the dealership, It's such a hassle to make an appointment, take time off work, take the car in and then go back and pick it up. I'm going to see if I can have it replaced locally.

floridian · June 2001

soggydog:I have a 1998 SC2 that is about to go off lease. It has been a good, altho dull, ho-hum ride (for me anyway)and I won't miss it.

I too live about 50 miles from the dealer. I have found that except for routine maintenance most local shops don't like to work on Saturns. They all say parts are too hard to come by and the cars themselves are "different"?? and they just would rather not 'fool' with them. Go figure.

Floridian

ochssk · June 2001

The automatic sifter on our '95 SL2 is sticking. When the car has not been driven for a couple hours, it is very difficult to press the button to enable the sifter to shift out of park. Our mechanic has checked the solenoid and could find nothing wrong. He applied some grease to the linkages which helped for a short time but it's getting bad again. Although we've never been stuck, my wife has been worried on several occasions. Usually if we jiggle the sifter (sometimes violently) the button will engage, and yes we are pressing on the brake pedal. Anyone experience this problem or have ideas?

afk_x · June 2001

Geez if you are going to post the opinion of one mechanic you have talked to you should advertise it as such.

Many mechanics LIKE Saturns because they are easy to work on, and the parts are easy and cheap to get. In fact I have had several mechanics send in customers to get Saturns -

Of course I'm sure there are mechanics out there who don't like Saturns....

floridian · June 2001

afk x: Well, I have a couple of very trusted mechanics here in my town that do the major part of the work on our fleet cars.Between them they have approx 20 ASC rated technicians on staff. It isn't that they don't like Saturns. It seems that what they object to is that there is so much exclusive parts content in them that they have to order a lot of stuff "special". Especially the transmissins. That tranny is not used on any other GM car. They have serviced all makes and models over the years for us and we trust them to the 'nth degree.

It's a moot point anyway as far as I'm concerned as the SC2 is going back to "lease end heaven" in a few weeks and I'll not have to worry about it anymore.

That 1998 SC2, loaded, original sticker almost 20K can be bought from Chase Finance for just a snick over 8K. WOW, some resale eh LOL.

Regards, Floridian

soggydog · June 2001

I called around to local parts stores today for the rear wheel bearing / hub assy. Auto Zone said it was a dealer only item. another store wanted $90. and the last one said $61.55, special order. I have one on order and will replace it myself.

floridian: For someone who don't think much of saturn, you sure hang out here alot. Didn't you mention before about your company's fleet cars being the ford focus? Did you see the recent results of the 5mph crash test. cost about $2,500 to repair.

You are right about the parts though. I tried to get the local chevy dealer to get filters for me but they said no can do. Come on GM, work with us. Another example is the alternator. I deal with a local alternator rebuild shop who has been able to repair just about any alternator including made in france stuff, however when I asked about the saturn alternator he said he just could not get the parts. That was two years ago, don't know if it,s still the same.

A good reason why local shops don't care for working on saturn's may be that with exclusive parts, they can't make as much money on mark-up.

joejackjones · June 2001

I am looking at a 98 SL1. The dealer let me take it home overnight. It has 29,000 miles, and is out of factory warranty by 2 months (it was bought in April 98). But I have noticed a possible problem. When I get it up to about 75mph it starts a slight occilating vibration. Like a wa wa sound. This only happens in 5th gear, and stops if I downshift to fourth or push in the clutch. Again it is slight I have to turn off the radio and fan to hear it. Any possible solutions or similar experiences will be greatly appreciated. I have not bought it yet, so I am trying to see if this a problem first.

floridian · June 2001

soggydog:Maby you misunderstood the status of the SC2. It was not actually a fleet vehicle per se. It came upon us as a default company car that we bought (leased actually)for an employee who was going to buy the car at lease end. That individual decided they didn't want to work for a living and is no longer in our employ LOL.

As to the high cost of Foci repair, well that's what we have insurance for ! So far no damage on any of them and they are all running like fine swiss watches. Well, Timexes at least LOL.

Keep on truckin' soggy

regards Floridian

danili16 · June 2001

I have a '96 SL2, and occasionally in 5th gear, especially under hard acceleration (like to speed up from 60-65mph) it does the same thing. What I think it is (but don't trust only my opinion), is just harmonic distortion. What happens is, when the engine reaches a certain speed, it "matches" the pitch of something else vibrating under the hood, and the two kind of switch off with their vibrations, creating the "oscillating" effect. I might be wrong though, because my friends' '94 Probe did the same thing, and his block cracked, so have it checked out by your mechanic before you buy it.

Also, thanks to everyone who suggested solutions to the problems on my SL2. Turns out the wheel bearing WAS bad, the rotors had to be turned, and the EGR valve needed to be replaced. I appreciate it!! ps--there is one awesome thing about these cars...I'm averaging 29.5mpg driving to-from work, all stop-and-go!

rdeschene · June 2001

Just a thought here. Have you checked with the Saturn dealership you're talking about and others to see if they have a dropoff and pickup service. In our area, the Saturn dealers in Kingston and Ottawa will do that within about a 60 mile (100 km) radius.

Our local Pontiac dealer (Rockway) will also service any make and model, so it might be worthwhile speaking to the Service Manager at different dealerships as well.

soggydog · June 2001

Don't know if it's the same thing as a dropoff and pickup service, but here's my experience.

Two years ago, 11PM, I went to the store to get milk, came out of the store, car would not start. some kind of a short at the starter causing the fuse to blow. I called the 24 hour tow service number in the book. They said they could not pick it up till the next day because my dealrship did not have a drop box. I thought what good is the 24 hour tow service.

I did complain and the service manager called me back and siad they were looking into fixing the problem. I don't know if they did, but it is worth cecking out.

Back to the wheel bearing hub assy. I installed it saturday, took less than 45 Min. No big deal.

Don't get me wrong, I have been happy with the Saturn and the dealership. I rarely use any dealership, I think people who knitpick and take there car back for every little thing are just asking for problems. The dealership did not make the car, they just maintain them, and sometimes make problems worse. But when it does need to go to the dealership, I don't want to take the day off work just to do it.

ak14 · June 2001

I was looking at 2001 SC2 fully loaded. Can anyone share their experience about this car. especially the repairs and maintenance, and resale value? What is the recent going prices any thoughts?

afk_x · June 2001

Value is pretty good on the Saturn 3 door coupes.

The more loaded you get it the worse the resale will be. Your average used Saturn buyer doesnt car about leather for example - nor ABS - nor the headcurtain airbags.

Leather is 750 new - and adds maybe 100 bucks in 3 years. The basic coupe of 16,000 can sell for 12,000 3 years later.

Hope this helps

dhanley · June 2001

A 16K car selling for 12K in 3 years is a 75% residual. That's higher than mercedes, bmw, lexus, etc. I think you'd be happy to get 75% on a brand new car in one year.

Accordig to edmunds, a unloaded ( just AC ) '98 sc2 will trade in for $7,722. KBB says 7,520. Those seem more realistic.

dave

floridian · June 2001

afk x: Hmmmm let's see. My unlamented 1998 SC2, loaded with a MSRP of $18,965.00 had a Chase residual of $10,800 and NO takers at that price @ the Saturn dealers.The way I see it these sleds will be worth about 50 some odd percent at the three year point. Not much better than most of the other domestic junkers out there. Actually not a whole lot better than some of the Hyundai iron, horrors what hath GM wrought ??

Floridian

afk_x · June 2001

Sorry I didn't realize you were talking about trade in values.

I was talking retail vs retail

We sell used 98 coupes for 12 grand all the time

rdeschene · June 2001

But this example does make a good argument for trying to sell privately. You pay for the convenience.

cardhu1 · June 2001

I have a 97 SL1 which recently had a cracked head replaced. Now (1 month later) it is back at the shop and I am being told that the catalytic converter needs to be replaced. Would coolant in the oil effect the performance of the catalytic converter?
thanks in advance,
tac

karynls2 · June 2001

I'm currently looking to purchase a new car and the SC is one of my choices. I'd take a SC1, with power upgrades and sunroof being the only options I want. Like the look, though having trouble finding a color I can live with. will quit the search, but wanted to know objective opinions--is that possible here?

sergeis · June 2001

I am thinking about buying SC1 '96 with 38K on it. Has AT, AC, cruise, power windows/locks, remote, traction control button. Looks like new inside and out, the guy is asking $6.5K. Does it seems to be a good choice? (It is for my daughter, and she does not care about power, color and looks are the must and SC1 seems to be OK in this department)

rdeschene · June 2001

You go to the saturn site below, and select the model you want. There is a list of colors for the SC1, with the available interior colors as well. If your local dealer doesn't have what you want in stock, but you know the colors you want, they should be able to order it in from another dealership fairly quickly.

http://www.saturnbp.com/shop_and_buy/

rdeschene · June 2001

I like the Saturn Canada showroom better (see link below) as you can view the car in profile with the different colours you choose. Good luck and have fun!

http://www.saturncanada.com/ssi/english/vehicles/saturn/scoupe/scoupe_showroom.html

ken1776 · June 2001

Coolant in the oil should have no effect on your catalytic converter, however if the coolant was leaking into the combustion chamber, "white smoke coming out of your tail pipe" this might have an adverse effect on your catalytic converter.

ken1776 · June 2001

Coolant in the oil should have no effect on your catalytic converter, unless you're the proud owner of a Saturn oil burner. I'm not sure what effect it will have on your converter, but my guess is it can't be good.

sergeis · June 2001

Anyone knows where to get reasonable CD player which can be installed into SC1 '96 with minimal effort? There is an available slot below AM/FM/Tape, or perhaps the tape should be simply replaced by AM/FM/CD. I don't like the idea of changer in the trunk.

dhanley · June 2001

If yo go to crutchfield, they can tell you what will fit your car, and they sell everythign with installition kits and instructions.

If you tell them i sent you we each get, i think, $15.

dave

93saturnsl1 · June 2001

Check out Best Buy. They usually have the best prices, plus you can get the extended service plan... I got a brand new one when my first one messed up. They offer free installation pretty often, which is what I went for. Plus they'll put the stock stereo back in if you were to sell it or anything.

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