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I'm still a bit confused tho. Why is it that everyone REFUSES to drive the car? Is it really that bad? I have driven the focus back to back with the Saturn SL2 and I actually liked the Saturn better.
Floridian
The SL-2 / SC2 does have some key advantages however.
Saturn has better acceleration - crash test results (and LOTS of real world crash test results), and extremely low cost of ownership.
Of course I would be remiss if I failed to mention that the plastic panels Saturn owners enjoy keep the car dent free for many many many many many years. Funny thing is I have yet to see a dent in a panel. (Have seen dents on roofs)
Also you are comparing the 98 SC2 to a 2000 Focus. Saturn made large strides in quieting the engine in 99 and finalized it in 2000. Truely there is no comparison between a 98 and a 2000 for the smoothness and quietness of the engines. In fact when on the highway I am always impressed with how quiet my 2000 Saturn is! It is a LOT quieter than my wifes 98 Altima.
Lastly the level of Satisfaction you will recieve from the Sales department *ranked #1* which is mildly important - and the Service department *#1 by CR and #2 by J.D. Powers* which can change your ownership perspective forever.
Good night
What can I say, I think I'm hooked.
As to the low cost of ownership (at least on the '98)I think it has to be worse than most other econoboxes now out there. The recommended service intervals of oil change @ 3000mi,replace spark plugs @ 30,000 mi (most others are using platinum plugs that easly go 100K) and tranny service @ 30K does not a low cost maintenance vehicle make in my book. The timing chain vs a belt is a nice touch tho. Warranty will be voided if these intervals not followed. I feel this is juat a ploy to boost service revenue for Saturn. That's ok, they have to eat too I guess, but not on my nickle, LOL. If you factor in the disappointing resale (IMHO)then the Saturns are merely just another el-chepo GM rag tag attempt at building a small car. For the money a Cavalier or Sunfire, even allowing for the dismal reliability (GM again) of these cars, are a better buy.I do have a neat keepsake in the form of a color picture on a 1998 calandar of me taking delivery @ the dealer plus they do send me a birthday card on the anniversary date of the car and all those donuts and coffee in the customer lounge have to acccount for something,yes ?? LOL Good luck with yours.
Floridian
As for mine, its a lease and I don't plan on buying it out. I'm going for an F150.
drivers window failed, in the down position, of course. It already had partially stripped gear teeth, but now the motor is dead.
So.... I have to drill out frozen screw heads to get the panel off. I FINALLY get the partially damaged panel off and I find out you have to take the outer skin of the door off to get to the regulator!!! But the star screws for the skin won't budge!!! So I think, "well let me look at the switches in the console." There is no visible or easy way to get the switch module out, so my friend and I take apart the console to get the module out. We find out I could have pried it out with a screwdriver with a little damage.
Anyway, we take apart the switch module for a look and all these little metal and plastic parts start falling into crevices in the car! After we accidently rolled another window down.
I don't think there was anything wrong with the switches anyway. I should stop complaining about my Chrysler, it was easier and the switch wasn't made up of all little fly away parts.
Now I'm trying to put the console back together and it does not want to comply. As I'm trying to reassemble it, more parts are jamming, or falling out! So now, I have two windows down, parts of a console sticking up and a mess of a door. And my LeBaron (my original P.O.S.) needs a fuel pump!
So.... some advice, before, you start to try to fix power windows on a Saturn.
DON'T !!!!!!! Unless you know how.
Anybody want a 1991 SL2 93,000 miles
on Long Island, runs well, needs you to get it fixed, I give up!!!
Gary
dave
Floridian
Floridian
I owned a 1993 Ford Escort that has done well for me for the past five years, with nearly 100 thousand miles on the clock. I was going to keep it a while longer, but the automatic seat belt system broke on the drivers side, leaving me without a shoulder belt. I was given an estimate of 500 dollars to fix it! Forget it, I thought. It was time to buy a new car. I was going to buy a Ford Focus, but the Ford dealer didn't seem to want to deal with me (their loss). I checked out the competition--Civic, Corolla, Prism, Protege and Sentra. OK, but a bit on the boring side for me. On the way home, I decided to stop by my local Saturn dealer. Two hours later (with little BS), I drove away in a 2000 SL1 and got 25-hundred dollars for my Escort. I love the car; it's quiet (though a bit noisy when revved up); handles well (it has larger tires and wheels) and is comfortable. The car was owned by a couple who traded it in after 12-thousand miles for the larger L series. (It still has the balance of the factory warranty; I was pushed into buying an extended warranty but I've decided to wait for now.)
I will check back in the months and (hopefully) years to come to let you know about the "Saturn Experience". One thing I was very pleased about: My new car will cost the same to insure as my old Escort did, thanks to its safety features. Believe me, peace of mind lets me sleep a little better as I make those payments for the next five years!
Supposedly the best additive is techron. Chevron markets it and pits it in their gas, though i don't know how much. I use chevron gas, and i have never had carbon build-up.
Revign the engine high blows ther carbon out as well. As a frequent visitor to mr. redline, that's likely another reason i never have carbon build up.
dave
I recently purchased a '96 Saturn SL2, 5-speed, 66,000 miles. I've heard very mixed reviews on it- especially that model year (being the first year of the redesign). I've noticed a few problems so far, and other saturn owners seem to have had the same ones over and over again, so I was wondering if anyone could diagnose exactly what's going on.
1) from the day I got it, the idle has been rough. It idles normally at 700-800rpm, and the idle doesn't waver at all. However, when at a stop in Neutral when the car has been driven for 10 minutes or more, (especially rested on an incline), the engine seems to "sputter." It has never died, and the RPM's have never dropped significantly, but it shakes pretty badly every few seconds. It may be unrelated, but every so often, I lose quite a bit of power in the upper rev's, and basically all the time there's no power under 5,0000...I have had the plugs and wires replaced (bosch platinum +4)
2) I think it's the heat shield, but whenever the engine vibrates (when you first rev the engine for acceleration or after you let off the gas and the idle returns to normal) significantly, there is a metallic "clanging" sound. I hope it's not the motor mounts...
3) When coasting to a stop, only with the windows shut and the car silent, there is an intermittent "scraping" noise coming from the front left wheel well that speeds up/slows down with the speed of the car.
4) I've heard these cars are naturally loud, but this is not normal...The exhaust has been replaced from the catalytic converter back, and there are no holes in the head pipe---yet especially when at idle, it sounds like there's a hole in it. Could it be the mounts or is this just a normal thing? I heard they improved noise for '97...
5) Whenever I go over an uneven or ridged spot in the road when cornering at over literally 5mph, the car seems to lose control and "jump". Is this normal, or are my rear shocks gone?
and finally,
6) The brakes have a HORRIBLE shudder when braking from over 50mph...My friend has the exact same problem in his '93 SL2, as does my other friend in his '94 SC1...The front pads and rotors were just replaced. Is this normal?
If anyone could answer any or all of these questions, I would really appreciate it. Thanks!!
-Dan
Dabuxba@ilstu.edu
You definitely have warped brake rotors.. Happened to me twice, and i'm easy on brakes.
Sounds to me like the engine mounts are bad.. Normal because the engine vibrates so much.
I'd suggest fixing those, then seeing which other problems persist.
dave
The bearing is pressed in and you have to change the spindle assy. I called saturn, they said $130. for the part and about $70. labor. He also said it is common problem, in fact on that day they had already replaced two spindles. Don't know if the spindle is available from other parts stores.
I live about 50 miles from the dealership, It's such a hassle to make an appointment, take time off work, take the car in and then go back and pick it up. I'm going to see if I can have it replaced locally.
I too live about 50 miles from the dealer. I have found that except for routine maintenance most local shops don't like to work on Saturns. They all say parts are too hard to come by and the cars themselves are "different"?? and they just would rather not 'fool' with them. Go figure.
Floridian
Many mechanics LIKE Saturns because they are easy to work on, and the parts are easy and cheap to get. In fact I have had several mechanics send in customers to get Saturns -
Of course I'm sure there are mechanics out there who don't like Saturns....
It's a moot point anyway as far as I'm concerned as the SC2 is going back to "lease end heaven" in a few weeks and I'll not have to worry about it anymore.
That 1998 SC2, loaded, original sticker almost 20K can be bought from Chase Finance for just a snick over 8K. WOW, some resale eh LOL.
Regards, Floridian
floridian: For someone who don't think much of saturn, you sure hang out here alot. Didn't you mention before about your company's fleet cars being the ford focus? Did you see the recent results of the 5mph crash test. cost about $2,500 to repair.
You are right about the parts though. I tried to get the local chevy dealer to get filters for me but they said no can do. Come on GM, work with us. Another example is the alternator. I deal with a local alternator rebuild shop who has been able to repair just about any alternator including made in france stuff, however when I asked about the saturn alternator he said he just could not get the parts. That was two years ago, don't know if it,s still the same.
A good reason why local shops don't care for working on saturn's may be that with exclusive parts, they can't make as much money on mark-up.
As to the high cost of Foci repair, well that's what we have insurance for ! So far no damage on any of them and they are all running like fine swiss watches. Well, Timexes at least LOL.
Keep on truckin' soggy
regards Floridian
Also, thanks to everyone who suggested solutions to the problems on my SL2. Turns out the wheel bearing WAS bad, the rotors had to be turned, and the EGR valve needed to be replaced. I appreciate it!! ps--there is one awesome thing about these cars...I'm averaging 29.5mpg driving to-from work, all stop-and-go!
Our local Pontiac dealer (Rockway) will also service any make and model, so it might be worthwhile speaking to the Service Manager at different dealerships as well.
Two years ago, 11PM, I went to the store to get milk, came out of the store, car would not start. some kind of a short at the starter causing the fuse to blow. I called the 24 hour tow service number in the book. They said they could not pick it up till the next day because my dealrship did not have a drop box. I thought what good is the 24 hour tow service.
I did complain and the service manager called me back and siad they were looking into fixing the problem. I don't know if they did, but it is worth cecking out.
Back to the wheel bearing hub assy. I installed it saturday, took less than 45 Min. No big deal.
Don't get me wrong, I have been happy with the Saturn and the dealership. I rarely use any dealership, I think people who knitpick and take there car back for every little thing are just asking for problems. The dealership did not make the car, they just maintain them, and sometimes make problems worse. But when it does need to go to the dealership, I don't want to take the day off work just to do it.
The more loaded you get it the worse the resale will be. Your average used Saturn buyer doesnt car about leather for example - nor ABS - nor the headcurtain airbags.
Leather is 750 new - and adds maybe 100 bucks in 3 years. The basic coupe of 16,000 can sell for 12,000 3 years later.
Hope this helps
Accordig to edmunds, a unloaded ( just AC ) '98 sc2 will trade in for $7,722. KBB says 7,520. Those seem more realistic.
dave
Floridian
I was talking retail vs retail
We sell used 98 coupes for 12 grand all the time
thanks in advance,
tac
http://www.saturnbp.com/shop_and_buy/
http://www.saturncanada.com/ssi/english/vehicles/saturn/scoupe/scoupe_showroom.html
If you tell them i sent you we each get, i think, $15.
dave