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As a Jaguar owner since '98 and a long time fan of the company, I do not recommend the previous XJ. Its a '95 design (when it was XJ6). It got the V-8 in '98, but otherwise its the same car up through '03. Its lacking in safety features, handling, space, etc. etc. compared to every other car in the class. Also, I think you're going to be in for a shock as to how much time and money is involved in maintaining a Jag. From 25K to 50K miles, my '98 XK8 was in the shop for unscheduled service visits ten times. My '00 R has around 35K on it, and has been in 6 times already. The warranty is up, so I will probably end up selling it and waiting a few years and then buying one of the new ones. If the super charger had failed this year instead of a year and a half ago, I'd be out $6500.
If you want a FWD, midsize car like the ES but one that wont put you to sleep, I recommend the Acura TL. You can even row your own in that car if you want, but I dont really recommend it as the torque steer becomes a serious issue with the stick.
Have you considered a '01 GS430? Relatively low mileage examples are pretty cheap, as the GS430 has never really been much of a hit. You can get the 18" wheels, the ML stereo, and NAV for less than $30K. I bet a Lexus dealer could even track down an "L-tuned" model with the sport suspension for that price.
I was on my way to the Lexus dealer to get an ES today and decided to have a look at the Toyota dealer nearby. (Both dealers are owned by the same person) You wouldn't believe what happened. I saw a little car in the corner and asked to take it for a test drive. The salesperson thought I was messing around with him, but took me regardless. That little car was a Toyota Corolla. I was rather surprised at how well it ran. Quite spunky and well laid out inside. I bought it on the spot...It's weird how life works sometimes. I spent less than half that I expected to. Even the wife is happy to have a small car around, especially since I didn't spend much..
It rode rather quietly and smoothly at 60 MPH. Can't argue with the 38 MPG either. The 1992 is here to stay, and Lexus will be having another look at it next week. It makes this strange creaking noise when pulling into parking spots..Really irritating, especially since I already spent $2100 on suspension work!
SV
The big black oversized-grille Audi, with the best paint job I have ever seen, is put through a grueling choreography of disbelieving stunts all without a scratch. Four-wheel drive, bullet-proof glass, blue-tooth technology, and other electronic gizmos are stretched to the limit.
Wow! What a car. Unfortunately, the target market for the A8L W-12 Quattro probably will never see this movie in a theatre where they can gasp, hear the melodic exhaust notes and appreciate the car’s potential. I suspect Audi might put a short clip of it on their website though, a la BMW.
But you gotta question a mag that will even continue to rate a car that had such mechanical failure in its testing as one at the top of the heap of the class. Doesn't reliability count for anything in ownership of these cars ???? IMO, the 330i should be at the BOTTOM of the class as a car that may be great but totally unreliable.
Confirming an earlier report by Reuters, a joint statement said the three carmakers had signed a memorandum of understanding to become equal partners in the project.
http://today.reuters.com/news/newsArticleSearch.aspx?storyID=154014+07-Sep-2005+RTRS&srch=- bmw
I think Honda should've put IMA in the MDX and Pilot first. The Civic is already incredibly fuel efficient and clean burning, it really doesnt need hybrid power. I think BMW would be smart to start with the X3 and X5 first, then work on the cars.
The diesel E is also not available in NY, and a few others. The current engines are just too dirty to pass air quality controls in these states. Once we have "clean" diesel available here, the 2007 spec cars should be 50 state certified.
Didn't we continue to read from Bimmer/MB fans that their response to Toy/Lex gas-electric hybrid system was... drumroll.... DIESEL ??? Whatever happened to that plan, eh ?
To battle the mighty Toyota, DCX, GM and BMW needed to combine their resources.... That should tell you how far back they are of Toyota, or how far ahead the latter is. Where were they 5 years ago ???? Sleeping at the wheel, again....
Sad, really !
Yeah, the price of hybrid vehicles just doesn't justify their use, as far as saving money is concerned. For example, Honda is touting it's new Accord hybrid, which sells for $30,140 and has a listed mpg of 29/37. The comparable regular V6 Accord sells for $27,300 and 20/29. If you drive 50% city/highway for 12,000 miles/year, the regular would use about 490 gallons ($1470 at $3/g) and the hybrid would use 364 gallons ($1092 at $3/g), for a difference of $378 per year. Do the math.... you'd need to have the car for 7.5 years just to break even! (And this doesn't even factor in a markup on hybrid cars that a lot of people are reporting.)
Right now it just doesn't seem to be a financially sound decision to buy hybrids..... (And I didn't even bring up the Lexus RX 330 vs 400h... 18/24 vs 31/27 for the lofty price difference of $11,000!!!)
Our society keeps thinking in dollars to be saved when we should be thinking in barrels untapped. The demands of developing countries and the China's and India's of the world are what is define our needs and limits for petroleum - not what it costs me to put a gallon in the tank.
Most people would stop thinking right there.
But let's think a little bit further: You mentioned China and India. What will they do if gas prices decrease...they will use more as will the rest of the world...
Should that keep people from doing the right thing? I hope not. Conserving fossile fuels should be a priority for everyone!!! Let's just be realistic about how this is going to happen.
http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=27&article_id=9491&page_number=1
The same article points out that pollution standards going into effect in 2007 will raise the cost of diesel cars (not just the fuel itself)....by an estimated $4500 per car. "It's hard to see a payback on a 2007 diesel car in the U.S. in less than 200,000 miles. That's efficiency you couldn't sell at gunpoint."
Hmm... not sure I follow you. It's the same V6 in the Accord V6 vs. the Hybrid, then add the 16hp from the "magnet motor." They say 255 hp at 6000 rpm vs 244 hp at 6250 rpm. That isn't much of an "upgrade"... certainly not worth $3000, IMO.
I know what people are saying about being "environmentally conscious".... I'd rather donate my $3000 to an environmental charity than buy a car with it, but that's just me. Maybe it's the "status" thing? Look at all the celebrities buying hybrids because it's "trendy".... :confuse:
My hope is that these hybrids are going to continue to improve so that we eventually see significant gains in both mpg and power. The more interest the population shows, the more likely it will happen sooner. While Toyota is leading, I am happy to see others throw their hats in.
I didn't buy a hybrid this time. In six years, maybe we'll see a BMW 335HXi (or 335xi-H. I can dream, right? Well, as long as I'm dreaming...M5x-H.
They aren't doing it because hybrid offers tiny improvements.
"We believe we can deliver 25% improvement" in fuel economy, Lawrence Burns, GM's vice president for research and development and strategic planning said in a recent interview. (same source)
I think Toyota/Lexus current hybrid offerings beat Honda's in terms of improvements vs conventional drivetrains (and this might account for Toyota/Lexus relative sales success in hybrids). And every manufacturer can be expected to make further improvements to hybrid technology.
Oh boy, not this again. The price difference is NOT $11K. People get that by comparing a base RX330 with no options to a 400 that comes fully decked out with everything as standard. If you do an actual comparison by loading up a 330 to match the 400's equipment levels the actual cost of JUST the hybrid motor is something like $3500-4000. If you dont want the back up camera, laser cruise, air suspension, upgraded wheels, etc. Dont buy a 400h. But please dont whine about Lexus fleecing its customers with an $11K price hike when that argument is simply not factual. Its like comparing a stripper ML350 to a fully loaded ML500. The difference in that case is a lot more than $11K.
The story is compelling and the video is excellent. I had the good fortune to see the video lab in full swing producing this when I was in Santa Monica a few weeks ago.
Check it out and enjoy!
The Japanese are now catching up on what use to be just a good value
I agree, over time Lexus will be able to raise its prices relative to the Germans.
Most hybrids are currently sold as the top version of their model (Accord, Civic, 400h, GS450h) and that means optional equipment on the lower rung will be standard. Thats not exactly an unusual practice, I really dont understand why everybody is so up in arms about it. Nobody seems to complain about having to pay for a bunch of equipment on a 550i that may be optional on a 525i.
I'd say most Japanese cars still present a VERY good value compared to Germany. Ex. Mazda3 vs Jetta. Accord vs Passat. Infiniti M vs BMW 5. LS430 vs S500. Lexus charges more than Infiniti or Acura does, but they have earned the prestige to do so.
Really ? Is this backed up with any hard fact or is it just speculation ?
As it is now diesel is selling in my area for about 25-40 cents less than regular, if the price of the lower sulfur fuel holds up, it will be quite the bargain...
Not in my neck of the woods. Diesel costs more than premium here in So Cal. It certainly ain't a bargain around here, andnot anytime soon either.
I guess BMW is hedging their bets...
Yeah ! And they'd need to also. Cos if the Diesel plan fails, as it will, then they have GM/DCX to bail them out.... eh ?
Wow. For a time it did here, but then the price/gallon tanked.
"Is this backed up with any hard fact or is it just speculation ? "
It's as much fact as a lot of the other ruminations on this board.
Folks, let's get away from the diesel/hybrid argument; that's really more appropriate on the Hybrid board or the News & Views board.
Most of you have weighed in with your opinions and yes, I understand that we are (marginally) talking about what the High End (so to speak) marques are doing or should be doing about the situation, but that doesn't make this the right place to keep at this.
Is no one interested in Jeremy Anwyl's comparison of the Quattroporte and and XJR? European Touring Sedans in Their Native Lands
One wonders why this discussion is not named "4 or 5 people go at each other's throats over whatever each other has said and never stop" ....
:shades:
lol.... As host, do you have "thread renaming" privileges? :P
As far as I am concerned it happened a long time ago with 2001 being the real benchmark year of major change. That is when Lexus kept raising the ante while MB lowered its prices significantly. A fully loaded LS Ultra is a stone's throw away from an MB S430 and the lease cost is equal or higher (sometimes noticably higher) because MB subsidizes its leases. Across the board Lexus has been ramping up its revenue by adding more and more equipment and selling less and less base cars. Base prices have hardly changed in 8-10 years but the cars being sold have moved up on average of $8-10K, and in some cases $14-15K in the case of the ultra. Most new models have been in the high end segment, GX, LX. and SC over that period as well. On average Lexus sales per unit are much higher than 6-10 years ago despite those nearly static base car prices.
Need we look any further as to why MB and BMW don't want to miss out on this the way they missed the SUV curve??
I paid $28,000 for the car...I could have gotten it through Costco for $25,000...(didn't find that out till later) The Base Model through Costco would have Cost $19 to $20,000...That was BEFORE the Auto industry went crazy with Discounts. (bought last March)
What does a Diesel Cost?....Is there an inconvience factor because you need to go to a special gas stations?....Does it pass emissions standards in every state in the union...
Hybrid Cars..are not all that expensive...Mine is an 05 Preis...
Every gas station in my area has diesel for below regular gas.
"Mine is an 05 Preis"
blueguy posted his impression of a Prius, it seems to be way different than yours.