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High End Luxury Cars

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Comments

  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    You don't do residual values on an absolute dollar basis - you do them on a percentage of original MSRP basis. Using the right basis means the LS430 is easily tops in its class.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    We are talkig percentages based on the Blue Book! Absolute dollars has no relevance whatsoever!!

    Call it ESP but I sense a whole slew of future statistical-related posts!

    I can feel those viral sympthoms again :sick:
  • oacoac Member Posts: 1,594
    But for God's sake this is not a Hyundai forum, remember? This is a LUXURY MARQUE FORUM! Why on earth spend money on a premium priced Lexus when you can get a Hyundai and rave in Hyundai forums about good CR stats!

    I am not sure what your line of business is, but if you are in a business that makes your time very very valuable then you'd understand why reliable transportation is paramount. When you spend the kind of money these cars cost, you don't want to be dealer-hoping, trying to get your car serviced or fixed for nicks and knacks... Reliable car means never getting you and your business associates stranded on the road... or not been able to make your important appointment bcos your car wouldn't start... or other myriad of electronic gremlins that can afflict these high-end, electronics-laden cars...

    Think about this for a minute: the higher the marque, the more electronic gizmos that are crammed into them, and the greater the propensity for them to malfunction. Meaning: You gotta have cars that are RELIABLE, where these electronic features are seamlessly integrated and functions flawlessly *most of the time*. All of which Lexus sedans and trucks do fairly well...

    That's why Lexus is the #1 selling luxury brand in NA.
    That's why the LS430 is the #1 selling premium full-size luxury sedan in NA.

    Reliable, luxury, build quality, customer service, value priced, and good retention of value....Lexus is #1 in almost all of these categories...
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Let me list some of the best and most expensive premium priced sport or luxury vehicles on earth:

    Ferrari
    Bentley
    Mercedes Benz/Maybach
    Rolls Royce
    Lambroughini

    Are any of the above vehicles renowned for RELIABILTY?? I dont think so!
    In fact we all know that they are renowned for their UNRELIABILITY!

    So why do people spend humungous sums on such cars as listed above? Maybe such purchasers dont read CR and prefer reading Conde Nast and the Wall Street Journal?

    In other words reliabiltiy is a main concern for the proliteriat masses and a trifling concern for a select few capitalists who can afford the cars they dream about!
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    Well - I don't know how you do things or measure financial numbers but in my world if something cost 100K to start and sells for 60K today that works out to a lower residual than somerthing that started at $80K and holds in at $55K now. If you want to look at absolute retention instead of percent of original price retained then you should also look at the inverse - that being absolute dollars lost to depreciation. There's a quid-pro-quo for everything. I'm really not into disputing this so as far as I'm concerned it can end right now with you buying into absolutes and me buying into percentages. But I must say I hope you don't view stock prices like this.
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    Did you ever hear of the concept rare goods? Let's see the values of those cars if they are mass produced. They'll fall faster than rain drops fall from Hurricane Wilma.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Percentages are more suitable for comparisons!
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    LS430s are not mass produced like Corollas but both rank closely in terms of reliability!

    But my question is who cares?

    A less reliable LS430 would still be a better car than a Corolla!
  • bdr127bdr127 Member Posts: 950
    I think we'd all agree that KBB knows numbers. They know resale value. Heck, that's all they do!

    With that in mind, head on over to KBB's website.... About half-way down on the right half of the page, you'll see a section entitled "Best Resale Awards".... Go ahead and click on that link and check out which brand(s) KBB gave their award to......

    I dare ya. ;)
  • garyh1garyh1 Member Posts: 394
    We are talkig percentages based on the Blue Book! Absolute dollars has no relevance whatsoever!!

    Call it ESP but I sense a whole slew of future statistical-related posts!


    Dewey, if you are correct on this I for one would be surprised. Len, I would say the true measure of residual value is not "current resale/original MSRP", but "current resale/original purchase price (or cap cost)". Some cars typically sell at bigger discounts than others, so MSRP is not necessarily a comparable number between different brands for true original cost.

    On that score, if after 3 years you can sell a typical 7 for a higher percentage of original purchase price than a typical LS, I would be impressed. To actually figure that out, I assume you could use the links to Edmunds' TMV pricing that Len gave us back in #10790 to determine what a car could be sold for now (I would suggest using the "sale by a private party" as the basis for current resale - that takes the dealer markup/markdown out of the equation). Then you would somehow need to figure out what those cars actually sold for back in 2002.

    In my zipcode, Edmunds says the typical 3 yr old 745Li would sell for $42,029 and the typical LS would sell for $33,809. To be conservative, let's assume the LS originally was bought for $55,000 (which is only about $1000 less than I paid for my '05 with Nav system, premium stereo, etc.). So the LS retained over 61% of original cost. For the 745 to match that, it would have had to have sold for less than $68,372.

    But Edmunds says a "typically equipped" 2005 745Li would now actually sell for $75,978.

    2005 745Li pricing

    Let's say that 3 years ago it would have sold for $2,000 less than in '05 (twice the amount I took off for the LS, just to be conservative again). That would mean that the 745 could have been bought for $73,978. Therefore, the 745 has kept less than 57% of its value after 3 years.

    So which is the residual value leader - the LS that retained over 61% or the 745Li that retained less than 57%?

    Oh yeah, I know, this was one of those "statistical-related posts" that you apparently think are irrelevant....
  • gshocksvgshocksv Member Posts: 77
    I think the number one sport sedan in this class is the Maserati, followed by Jaguar XJR. Audi S8 and the S55 AMG are about the same. The fact that BMW does not have a M powered package for the 7-series actually makes it less sporty than the models I've mentioned.

    However, I do believe a small percentage of buyers buy the 7 series because they think it's more sporty, because after all, BMW does indeed have more sporty model throughout its lineup, even though the 7 series itself is hardly sporty.

    Even with the sporty models such as S8, S55, or XJR, they make up a very small percentage of total sales, most people that buy these nice big cars buy them for the luxury, the comfort, the sporty models are more headline grabber than anything else.
  • garyh1garyh1 Member Posts: 394
    The interesting thing is that this is KBB's projections of who they think will have the best resale value of a 2006 car in 2011. Here's the way they put it:

    Based on well-informed projections by Kelley Blue Book's expert staff of market analysts that are encapsulated in the Kelley Blue Book Residual Value Guide, the awards honor vehicles that are expected to have the best resale value after five years of ownership.

    Thanks, but I'd rather look at past history than someone's guess of what will be 5 years from now. I can evaluate someone's past performance a lot better than I can evaluate someone's future predictions!

    It's funny, because I can remember back in 1994 when MB's residuals were so high that I decided to buy a new rather than used E, because the difference was so small that the new car warranty outweighed it! Previously, I had bought a 1986 735i with 11,000 miles on it in 1987 for about a 25% discount off of new, and assumed I could do the same on an MB, but I couldn't come close to that kind of discount.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    And how many S8 or S63 sales would be made again ????

    I guess you don't understand that everything isn't about sales. We were talking about a sporty sedan that is what the 750i Sport, S8 and upcoming S63 will be, sporty sedans in the full-size luxury car class. They aren't made just for sales, they're made for people who want some with a little more bite, something I guess isn't understood in LS430 land. Who cares what they sell, that doesn't change the fact that they are there.

    Let's face it, MBs and BMWs derive a huge chunk of their Euro sales from low end 3 and C-class cars that are mostly used as sherpas.... taxi cabs, I mean.. These cars litter the streets of Europe - vinyl seats, no A/C, manual windows, steel wheel covers, pretty much bare-bones... All of which counts towards MB and BMWs *prestige*, eh ? Oh, but here in NA, they market them exclusively as luxury brands... Good marketing that's all...

    So what, they ain't lost one lugnut of prestige by doing this for over 100 years. It must be frustrating to keep repeating something as irrelevant as that, because buyers in those countries don't care. If you're going to "face it" then you'd be facing the fact that no matter what BMW and Mercedes sells at the low end their top end M, AMG, V12, 2-door, convertibles etc. etc. get all the glory. This is something Lexus only wishes it had. Now if Lexus can overcome their Toyota roots with certain buyers here then surely Mercedes and BMW can overcome some entry-level products that aren't their main focus. Does it bother LS430 and SC430 buyers that a ES330 is a Camry in leather? Heck no. Ditto goes for a S500 buyers who sees a B200 Turbo or a 750i buyer that sees a 130i in the same showroom. Darn right BMW/Mercedes are masters at marketing, its a cheap shot to knock them for that.

    Yes, MB and BMW are pretigious brands, no doubt, but to make them into these super brands is a myth, especially these days. Notice how the new GS is priced close to the comparable MBs and BMWs. How about the new IS and its MB and BMW competition... practically about same. Does that tell you something ???

    Yeah it does. It says that Lexus see itself getting closer to BMW and Mercedes in those market segments, sure does. The brand itself, years off from doing the same as a whole. BTW, I don't make BMW and Mercedes out to be superbrands, only that they are more prestigious than Lexus. The "Super Brands" would be Bentley, Rolls, Ferrari, Aston-Martin and the like.

    The kinda of sentiment MB had back in 1989. Continue the sarcasm...

    No, that is isn't sarcasm. Lexus being a no-go in their homd market is called a fact. It isn't the Germans fault that Lexus didn't start their dominance in their own market and let foreigners have their own homeland luxury car market.

    Also I noticed on the 2007 LS board you stated that because the LS thread has more traffic than the 2007 S-Class thread that means trouble for the S-Class. I guess that must be the same trouble the better selling E-Class is in next to the much more popular 2006 GS thread. Too funny.

    M
  • mbzlvrmbzlvr Member Posts: 14
    Los Angeles Times, along with Edmunds.com surveyed CEOs and found that Japanese cars were not on the "most wanted" list. It also mentioned that if the CEO drives a Lexus, the employees better ride a bus so as not to upstage their CEO.

    Ooops, the article said Tercel, not Lexus but just as well, a Toyota is a Toyota, no matter how hard you try to convince yourselves that a Lexus is a luxury marque.

    Ricky
  • gshocksvgshocksv Member Posts: 77
    Lexus is a Toyota.

    Infinity is a Nissan

    Aston Martin, Jaguar, and Land Rover are all Fords.

    Ferrari is a Fiat

    Lamborghini is an Audi

    Audi is a Volkswagen

    Bentley is a Volkswagen

    Rolls Royce is a BMW

    Maybach is a Mercedes

    Mercedes is a Chrysler

    Saab is a GM

    Come on... you can do better than that.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Can't believe I'm going to say this in Lexus' defense but that article is why newspapers should leave the "car" stuff to actual car magaiznes. A survey of CEOs is one thing, but they usually don't have a clue about the actual cars themselves, WSJ included.

    M
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Oh? Please point me to the Toyota on sale in the US that is a rebadged version of the LS430 for less money. Cant find one? How about the GS, IS, or SC? Still coming up short? If a Toyota is a Toyota, shouldnt there be a Toyota version of the LS? I wonder why anyone would possibly buy a Ford GT? A Ford is a Ford. They might as well drive a Focus, right?
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    Thanks, Gary. I was trying to be generous by giving him MSRP instead of actual sale price. By the way that price you noted on the LS residual didn't include the Nav and ML so the 61% is really closer to 65%. The typical options on the LS are the ones from the premium edition. I've pointed out the KBB shortcomings often on these boards but I was tired of going there. Their projected future residuals are based on lease residuals being offered by the manufacturers. The more you subsidize a leasae the greater you do in KBB. It provides about as much value as someone trying to predict the stock market values in 3-5 years. But if Dewey wants to buy that yardstick than I hope he lesaes his cars. The residual I'll never forget is the 2001 S-class. MB was offering high 60's as future retained percentage value in the leases I was offered (and they were MB finance deals) after 3 years. Actual result was high 40's. The E-430 was just as bad. As usual future predictions and reality are two different things.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Appreciate your attempts to seek alternative methods in determining residual values and I can fully understand your rationale but your estimate is just as good aa guesstimate as what is provided by the bluebook.

    Using the following ratio:

    (05 resales bought 3 years ago)/(05 Edmunds pricing) is as an a imperfect figure as using (current resale)/(original msrp)

    A perfect residual value figure would need the prices of the original cost and the current resale. Unfortunately as far as I know that data is missing!

    Here in Canada we cant even consider the above computations because there is no equivalent Edmunds TVM pricing for Canadian vehicles . In fact we dont even have access to Dealer invoice pricing information!

    Bottom Line: The Blue Book ranked BMW/Mini as number one and the Blue Book is considered the authority in residual values.
  • bdr127bdr127 Member Posts: 950
    Okay, if you refuse to like KBB, then how about ALG? They advise all manufactuers on lease residuals. They do a pretty darned good job from what most industry experts say.... ALG sets the standard.

    For two years in a row, BMW had the highest residual value as a brand for the luxury segment:

    http://www.alg.com/awards.aspx

    Lexus is a respectable #2.... but there's nothing like being #1!

    (Of course, I know what happens next.... In response we'll start comparing the residuals for the LS430 to the 7-Series........)

    Remember that there is far more to an entire brand than one car! Especially one that only makes up 5% of total sales..... Oh, FWIW, what are the current residuals on those two cars? Aren't they about the same, anyways? Around 60% for 36m/36k?....
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Oh? Please point me to the Toyota on sale in the US that is a rebadged version of the LS430 for less money. Cant find one? How about the GS, IS, or SC? Still coming up short?

    Hmmm, are not the majority of Lexus sales based on the Toyota Camry/Highlander platform?
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    KBB, ALG and the Blue Book:

    What further stats do you fellows need to understand that BMW is number one in residual values?
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    The Japanese are known for being very Modest...

    True, but certainly not Lexus owners in North America ;)
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    I told you already - you follow your theory world of future values and I'll follow the real money world of real sales. Proof of actual sales is far greater than opinions of future predictions in my book. We disagree - pure and simple.

    But as a financial pro I'd advise you to lease and not buy. If your going to believe in future values put the risk on the financing party whenever you can - particularly in something that has future residuals that are pegged at higher prices than past performance supports.
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    Now you are getting personal again. For what it's worth Japanese and Europeans are conservative in business.
  • killerbunnykillerbunny Member Posts: 141
    Los Angeles Times, along with Edmunds.com surveyed CEOs and found that Japanese cars were not on the "most wanted" list. It also mentioned that if the CEO drives a Lexus, the employees better ride a bus so as not to upstage their CEO.

    Bill Gates drives a Lexus to work.(SC, I think)
    I personally will not be ashamed of driving the same car marque as Bill Gates.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Aren't the majority of Audi sales from VW Golf, Passat platforms? Arent the majority of Cadillac sales from Chevy Tahoe platforms? Arent the majority of Jaguar sales from Ford platforms? Isnt the CLS an E with some swoopy body work and a mega price hike? Isnt the Cayenne a Toureg with an even bigger price hike?

    I wasnt talking about Lexus' volume players, I was talking about the "prestige" cars that sell for above $40K, but if you want to knock Lexus for platform sharing, you've got to knock everyone else that does it. Could Lexus make an RX330 on an independent platform? Easily, but it would raise the price to ML500 levels. It makes much more sense for them to use a perfectly capable existing platform, undercut the Germans by ten grand, and hammer them on sales. Just because most European car companies use a single badge for all of their models, it doesnt make them "better" than anyone else.
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    That's just another measurement of prestige and status. No one's arguing Lexus is third - at the moment. But here's your problem - prestige does not equal quality and if the company was paying for your car and you were a CEO chances are you'd take the prestige and think nothing of overpaying for it. In the end your post proves status and nothing more. You know what - under those conditions and having a chaffeur drive me around and knowing the check is being paid for by shareholders that allow it, chances are I'd take a LWB car with the extra legroom as well.

    But I'll tell you what - when I see an ordinary person driving home in a new S500 to a house that is worth 50% of mine I know he's just BSing himself on status. Besides, after three years his car is worth less - on top of that. So much for status three years later.
  • michael_mattoxmichael_mattox Member Posts: 813
    Very well said...Excellent

    No he can't do better then that...He took his best shot and it fizzled under the light of pure and unchallangeable LOGIC....A reasoned response....Facts vrs Fiction..
  • michael_mattoxmichael_mattox Member Posts: 813
    Dewey:

    Something you may not know...U.S. citizens cannot buy New Luxury cars that are not made in Canada ...from Canada.

    Taking into concideration the difference in our exchange rates....A New Lexus or Mercedes is quite a bit cheaper in Canada then in the US...
  • michael_mattoxmichael_mattox Member Posts: 813
    bdr:

    I don't know how often it needs to be said but this thread is all about the S Class the 7series and the LS...as well as some other luxury top dogs like Jag...Audi A-8 ..and even the acura....

    We should not be talking about the A or C or even the E class Mercedes the 5 or 3 BMW or the IS, ES, from lexus....Yes the Mercedes SL and other High end Luxury Marques are often thrown into the mix....

    But this lease discussion should concentrate on Similar Marques Like the S..LS...7 series...Top Jag...A-8 ..........to make any sense at all.
  • michael_mattoxmichael_mattox Member Posts: 813
    Dewey:

    You mistake Undeniable truth for being less then Modest...
  • mariner7mariner7 Member Posts: 509
    BMW CEO takes a look at LF-S in Tokyo AS. Here's a quote:

    The LF-Sh is more muscular in appearance than the old LS, and there's no question Toyota intended to make it less derivative, less dependent on styling themes pioneered in Europe. But Panke couldn't help but notice the Japanese car's distinct "Bangle butt," the high rear deck lid first used on BMW's controversial 7-Series.

    I think, in their heart of hearts, L- finesse designers are secret admirers of Bangle and his butt.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Something you may not know...U.S. citizens cannot buy New Luxury cars that are not made in Canada ...from Canada.

    Taking into concideration the difference in our exchange rates....A New Lexus or Mercedes is quite a bit cheaper in Canada then in the US...


    Pardon me but I really dont know what you mean?

    I was not using Canadian prices in any of my past posts although I did mention that in Canada we lack some important car pricing info(TVM and Dealer invoice pricing.
  • michael_mattoxmichael_mattox Member Posts: 813
    Last time I heard Gates drives a Black on Black 01 LS430 Ultra.
  • michael_mattoxmichael_mattox Member Posts: 813
    Dewey:

    I mean nothing more then you guys in Canada get Real Deals on Mercedes and Lexus...Much better Prices on new Luxury cars then we get here...I tried to buy one up there a few years ago..

    If your dealers could sell to U.S. citizens we would flock up there to buy.
  • jrock65jrock65 Member Posts: 1,371
    Gates also has a Ford Explorer. I'm sure he has about 50 other cars, housed in 50 garages in his $150 million estate.

    Warren Buffett drives an old pick-up truck and his house is valued at $800,000. No idea what that guy does with his money.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    A lot of VERY rich people drive very pedestrian cars. I've met Louis Appel, head of what used to be Susquehanna Comm. on a few occasions when our companies did business together. The guy drives a Ford Taurus. Not even a newer one.
  • gshocksvgshocksv Member Posts: 77
    Dewey,

    I agree with you, these are some of the most exotic cars ever (Lamborghini Diablo is my all time dream car), but the problem with these makes is that they're extremely unreliable and don't make too much money, that's why Ferrari was acquired by Fiat in the 70's, Rolls Royce was taken by BMW a few years ago, Bentely taken by Volkswagen a few years ago, Lamborghini, who sold his company in the early 70s, switched several hands, and finally landed with Audi/Volkswagen.

    All these companies are finally turning profit, after they have vastly improved their reliability... Acura NSX actually changed the landscape. If it wasn't for Ferrari, people still think unreliaiblity is part of the package.
  • anthonypanthonyp Member Posts: 1,860
    Many wealthy people who are not car buffs do not want to tie up with the extra expense---insurance, and vandalism---or to even think of transportation until they need it.. Most of those people live in a fairly large city, so dings, scrapes are a common occurence, so for them it is a no brainer...Further they are secure in their own well being so it doesn`t matter.....Now those that are car buffs do indulge themselves with the luxury brands and do care about the scrapes etc..The big shots I have known over in Europe are provided a car and chauffeur as part of their compensation package, which was very modest in scale with American pay....Tony
  • killerbunnykillerbunny Member Posts: 141
    Taking into concideration the difference in our exchange rates....A New Lexus or Mercedes is quite a bit cheaper in Canada then in the US...

    LOL, 10 years ago maybe.
    Right now, luxury cars are SUBSTANTIALLY more expensive in Canada because of the rising looney and the hot economy in Canada.

    ---- from a Canadian actually bothered to check out the facts
  • killerbunnykillerbunny Member Posts: 141
    Ferrari
    Bentley
    Mercedes Benz/Maybach
    Rolls Royce
    Lambroughini

    Are any of the above vehicles renowned for RELIABILTY?? I dont think so!
    In fact we all know that they are renowned for their UNRELIABILITY!


    1) People drive these on holidays, so it will be fine if a wait at the shop is needed.

    2) However, if you need to meet Bill Gates to talk about business development, you better drive something more reliable.

    3) Does it occur to you all these unreliable marques, except Ferrari, are actually dead? (Is Ferrari owned by Fiat now? Correct me.) They were forced to bankrupt and sold to other companies. Eventually, the new parent companies are going dump these money drain once again.
  • michael_mattoxmichael_mattox Member Posts: 813
    Killer:

    I am an American who was actually up there trying to buy a car....and it was not even 5 years ago. It also has nothing to do with your economy...It has to do with taraffs and import fees which are much lower up there....In essence you are a free trade zone with Japan and Europe..
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    But I'm sure he's looking at price vs. some prior purchase. Different perspective, different result.
  • gshocksvgshocksv Member Posts: 77
    I agree the butt does kind of resemble the 7 series, however, the car itself overall has its own style, looks pretty hot to me if you ask me.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Well, Lexus may not be on the "most wanted" list - but I wonder which CEOs they surveyed.

    If it's attorneys - they would choose BMW.
    If it's bankers - they would choose Lexus.
    If it's Real Estate or Title Company Execs, they would choose Mercedes.
    Rappers would choose Range Rovers.
    Tony Soprano would get the Escalade.

    I'd love to know who they surveyed, because if they were all from California - they would all be driving a 7-Series.......
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    The real Tony Soprano drives a Landcruiser - in black. I've seen him and it firsthand.
  • gshocksvgshocksv Member Posts: 77
    It's funny, I don't even drive a Lexus, I am actually a very proud Jag owner. I have a lot of respect for Mercedes-Benz, BMW, Audi, Jag, Lexus (and a lot of other makes) because they all provide distinct styles, and have all created very attractive automobiles. I find myself defending Lexus because a few people don't want to recognize Lexus as one of the powerhouses when in reality they're. I myself don't really want to drive a Lexus because it's too common, and that's the reason I would not rush out and get a Mercedes or BMW... hence I bought a Jag (really like the Audi too) for its distinct and attractive styling. However, it does not make MBZ, BMW or Lexus any less prestigious in my mind just because I like Jaguar more.

    I think people have to remember that most big companies, regardless of industry, have had a humble beginning. Before Lamborghini started making ultra exotic cars, they were making tractors! Diamler-Chrysler's Mercedes-Benz passenger car division lost a whopping $2bb in the first half of 2005, if it wasn't for its commercial vehicle division, which makes garbage trucks, buses, commercial vehicles, there probably would have been a reorganization (I do want to add, Mercedes-Benz posted a much more impressive result for the 3rd quarter). Even though Toyota was making small economic cars, doesn't mean they can't make luxury cars, especially when they're made better in a lot of people's minds.

    I have to say, the new IS and the new LS look very hot, I am not planning to jump boat, but it's tempting.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Hey, gs - I'm a big Jag fan as well, love 'em, every inch of 'em. The only reason I went Lexus this time, was the Jag was too hard for me to get out of, being so low to the ground. Once inside, it's a heckofalot more comfortable than the flat Lexus seats, (my biggest complaint) - but my left knee will not let me easily out and up. The Lexus is very easy to exit for me. That's the biggest selling point.

    No question, the Jag will turn a ton more heads.....
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    I've been a Jag fan since I first laid eyes on the XK120. It is, in my humble opinion, still one of the most gorgeous cars of all time. When I was finally able to afford a luxury GT convertible as a weekend car, I bought a Jaguar XJ-S. Terrible ergonomics and the wind noise at speed with the top down was unbearable (it is a '75 design), but those seats, the wood, the stitching, and the roar from the big 6, that made all of the XJ-S's flaws (and there were many) easy to overlook. Plus, the competition was basically a Benz SL, and while the last gen was nice, and could easily run circles around the XJ-S in terms of handling, I found it a very plain looking car.

    While Jaguar has pretty much shed all of the problems of its pre-Ford days, it's lost a lot of what made the cars so special, and I think that has a lot to do with Jaguars failures of late. As an owner of two JSes and two XKs, I can definitely say that their interiors are not nearly as good as they used to be. In the JS, you could close your eyes and fool yourself into thinking you were sitting in a Corniche. Close your eyes and touch a some of the surfaces in the current XJ sedan, and you'll think you're in a Kia. I really hope that the interior of the '07 XK feels as good in person as it looks in pictures.
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