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Comments
Back to Lexus for me... The LX is really without peers. I don't know why I even thought of another truck in its class... Silly me... Comforting that Lexus is just heads and shoulders above the competition in reliable transportation.
Now, the LX470 is a very good truck - but much smaller, and the 3rd seat is a joke. The GX470 - even smaller, same problem. But a great truck.
Mercedes G-Class is in a class by itself, lots more money, and ugly as sin, IMO. But lots of wow factor.
I've tried them all, the Navigator still wins for me.
I think your posts are usually insightful so I am surprised by your catergorization of the 525i as a rip off. Wouldn't say a 525i with sports suspension, variable steering and a stick shift be a great cost-effective way to get the Bimmer experience w/o paying thru the nose? Throw on a set of Zenons and it would be a middle-aged guys dream.
Whaddya thunk?
1998 XJ8L
PLEASE CAN SOMEONE HELP.
I was actually thinking of the clunky NAV system, but CD changer not being in the right place doesn't help either.
Secondly I disagree, power is most definitely what a luxury car is about. It may not be a "trademark" but it is part of the reason people buy luxury cars.
Nobody thinks Mustangs and Camaroes were luxury cars despite their horsepower advantage over BMW's of comparable price (ha! perhaps within a doubling).
Stil doesn't disqualify them as being luxury cars like some here try to imply. Two trivial (very trivial in the case of a CD changer imo) things.
Nobody thinks Mustangs and Camaroes were luxury cars despite their horsepower advantage over BMW's of comparable price (ha! perhaps within a doubling).
True, and nobody thinks much of an underpowered "luxury" car nowadays either. Power is just as much a part of luxury as Nav systems and CD changers, moreso than a cd changer imo. I honestly don't understand that constant complaining about such a small thing like where a CD changer is located. The reliability part I can certainly see why one would stay away, but this constant harping about a Nav system and CD changer is just a lot of ruckus about nothing, IMO.
According to some here German luxury cars don't cut it because of inferior nav system or what they think is an ill-placed CD changer, and by that some token a luxury car (especially of this class) should have some giddyup. People like having power in these cars even if they hardly ever use it, they like knowing it is there just in case.
It is the intergration of these things and how they do so that makes a luxury car (Along with some other criteria) imo, because all these things can be had on much, much cheaper cars.
Sidenote: I personally like a 10-12 disc-changer in the trunk and single slot CD player in the dash, but that is just me. Either way you're going to be fumbling with CDs, only more so with 6 of them staring you in the face all the time. Lexus once upon a time had a nice 12-disc changer setup, but then again they didn't have in-dash CD player at that time.
M
Sorry for that characterization, just what I feel, since I still cannot figure out the purpose of the 525i, even with a SP (I do love SP-attired BMW tho', so much fun to drive, really). That anemic engine is best suited for the 3-series, imo. Why recycle this motor in a mid-size, bigger, porkier 5-series, and a mid-$40K tag ? I'd like to see the 255HP 530i as the base, with the 545 (or soon to be 550i) as the top end. Add in the racy M5 and you round out the mid-size entries, IMHO.
Very nice truck. Nice history, great heritage... Resale is the worst in its sector. Atrocious. Reliability is spotty as well. My very good friend, an MD, has one. Traded out of an RX to an LC, and then to a RR. Has regretted the latter decision ever since. Now she rides in a Honda Oddy...
My mind is really made up... Back to the LX. I don't see the HPX coming out anytime soon, and the GX is too small for us.
M
The future of the LX\TLC is uncertain. What I think is going to happen is that Toyota will build new full size SUVs (Sequoia\JX?) based on the new Tundra, which will probably eliminate the LX and TLC.
M
M
I don't think anyone tried to disqualify the S, E, 5 and 7 models with sucky Nav as luxury cars; they are just sucky luxury cars ;-)
nobody thinks much of an underpowered "luxury" car nowadays either.
Among the entry-luxury and mid-level perhaps, but not necessarily the high end. One of the latest luxury car making the rounds is a E220 Limo! Not exactly a car with 0-60 credentials. Let's not forget even Princess Diana died in an S280, not an S65AMG. The ultra luxury market is about smooth ride, luxury amenities, and an impeccable experience, not racing red lights with young punks.
It is the intergration of these things and how they do so that makes a luxury car
I agree. System integration is where Europeans have been falling behind in the last decade.
That was a great video. Doesn't the new S500 have some sort of airbag to predict the pedestrian as well? Now doing that video with a new S Class would have been great. The old lady might have gotten something she hadn't bargained for.
I see we're back to the usual debates...Ugh..Can't we just understand that every marque caters to different character sets? I don't ever see a BMW buyer going near a Lexus...It's just not their type of car, though the IS might be to some extent.
MB excels on building cars that shout Style..Look at the new CLS..It definitely says, "I'm different!" BMW builds cars for those wanting an involved driving experience. Lexus goes for the buyer who wants a no-hassle experience and comfort.
I think the big deal about reliability is that Mercedes was known until recently for building bank-vault like cars..Actually, seeing the W126 for the first time is what made me interested in Luxury cars to begin with..I'd been driving Buick's before my friend brought his then brand new 1988 300 SE to my place. The car was and still is absolutely solid.
One last thing: Driving around in the Corolla, I find that the horn isn't as "Macho" as I'm used to. The Lexus cars I have a much louder and more imtimidating sound. I've never hit the horn on any MB though..Perhaps our next debate? Which Marque has the best horn?
SV
Peterbilt
Now if that little old lady had heard that, I hate to think what might have happened!
Well there are exceptions to every rule, but still power is just as much a part of a luxury car as anything else mentioned on this board. In Europe anything goes in a luxury car body it seems. In this country, power is a part of the upper luxury car experience. Nobody said anything about racing, you're trying to equate power to the desire of luxury car buyers to race sports cars, didn't say that.
That said, even I wouldn't want an E220 or 730i, but Europeans uses these cars for long distance crusing at elevated speeds (once the car gets up to speed ). Much more for long distance efficiency than short sprints.
M
I really hope you aren't serious.
M
http://automotive.kosmetichka.ru/act_viewitem/itemtitle_WOLO_3062T_Super_Horns/item_B00029- XGNC/cat_12990461.html
120db is roughly equivalent to a jet engine, or jackhammer.
1. Styling - if a car is ugly and/or bland I couldn't care any less about it. No boring or ugly cars.
2. Performance - Quality - Reliability - Comfort are pretty much all equally important after #1 for me....These all get looked at equally after styling/design in my book.
But when you started to become an MB fan (early 90s?)...did you actually like the styling?
Picture it, America 1986. Riding along I noticed a rather different looking car on the expressway next to us. It said "300E" on the back of it, with this little star in the center of the trunklid. It was a curious machine. The right side rear view mirror was a different size from the left side rear view mirror it had this single blade windshield wiper and styling completely different from my favorite brand of car at the time (which was American btw). That car turned out to be the brand-new-for-1986 300E, precusor to today's "E-Class". Now prior to this I had seen a rather "large car" with the same symbol and some numbers like "380SEL" on the back of it, but wasn't sure who made it or what it was but it wasn't until I saw the "300E" did I truly start becoming a fan of what was called a "Mercedes-Benz". That E-Class of 1986 went on until 1995 and during that time there was a Coupe (300CE), Wagon (300TE) and two V8 sedans were added (400E, 500E) the latter of which continues to be my favorite Benz of all time to this very day.
So yes I like the styling, it was different and very upright, but much "cleaner" than my favorite luxury brand at the time. No I won't say what that brand was.
Of course there are stories about the first time I rode in and drove a Benz later on, but the above is pretty much how I remember the whole thing getting started.
M
M
Until then, I'll stick with my dino era CDs, and their infinitely superior sound quality.
http://common.weblogsinc.com/common/images/3060000000046137.JPG?0.9619618256758341
My Mk II was just like this car, two tone black over white, with the bolt on windows and impossible double-clutch four-speed. At least I never had to worry about my wife driving it
Hmmm !!! Merc1 if this car was your wake-up call to the MB stable, I am quite surprised. Compared to today's styling, this MB is kinda stale and bland as vanilla....
I'm surprised you would view the late 80's 300E as offering better styling than say Audis of that time.
Secondly, bland, vanilla etc...to each his own I guess. To me the W124 E-Class was a timeless design that still looks good today. Especially the 1994-1995 facelifted models.
You have to remember that the SL that roamed the streets in the 80's was a design that came out in 1971! Now the SL after that, the R129 that ran from 1990-2002 was another favorite.
Yeah the W124 E was hardly of the swoopy design language that Mercedes has today, thing is though they were hardly considered bland and vanilla back in their day. Its really easy to judge an old design by today's standards and call it bland.
M
As a young lawyer, I myself went with an Audi 5000S back then (1980?), but if I could have afforded a 300E I would have bought it in a minute. And I would probably still have it now, that's how good a car they were. In contrast, the Audi blew a rod before it was 5 years old.
In those days, with an MB you actually did get what you paid for....
I liked that car so much..I remember when I first got it, I would pass a BMW Convertable or an SL and feel sorry for the poor guy driving it...Silly I know. My Allante still looked fresh in 03 when I sold it.
Somehow, I bet they felt the exact same way about you.
You guys will laugh when I admit that back in the late 70s I actually liked the exterior styling of the AMC Pacer.
Well, there's bad old design, and old design that really was so gorgeous that its still amazing today. There's only one American car in the history of US auto that I've ever really thought was goregous, the original 1953 Corvette. A few of the T-birds were pretty good, but they never measured up to that first Vette.
My love of English cars was kindled by stunners like the XK120 and Aston DB4. Those cars look just as good today as they did then. By '71 auto design went seriously down hill, and by '85 it was basically dead and buried.
Somebody at Aston Martin actually thought this...thing looked good:
Aston Martin Bulldog
To the contrary, syswei, my all-time favorite American car (I am not American, if you haven't already guessed) was the '70s Mercury Monarch. That car was elegant, stately, rich-looking, and had a commanding presence on the road. A car driven by US ambassadors globally, at least in the '70s. I lusted after that car, and promised myself if I ever had any money, that's the car for me. Of course, I was barely 12 yrs old by this time, so much for been a car fan that early.
In the '80s, it was MB bcos every rich person had one. But by the '90s, MB was off the radar for me. Why ? Bcos it represented old money, to me. It represented everything I wanted to forget. Regardless of how beautiful and graceful the cars are, MB as a brand belongs in the past. Nothing against them really... Lexus was the new kid on the block...I was impressed by their reliable and conservative outlook to their cars. And they bucked the old-timers. That was the deal breaker... That a starter could kick the behind of the old guard. I love that about them. And remain loyal to that brand, for now. The brand that intrigues me the most is BMW. Despite their long history, they remain *new* in my eyes. If only I could sub-consciously overcome my fear of their reliablity issues, I'd buy one. And therein lies the dilemna. I do not want the Bangled ones, and scared of buying the older models (whose style I believe are timeless) due to... well... reliability concerns. Who knows...
You got any facts to back up that claim, Cowboy? Cause, my friends who have the 7 series' would tend to disagree with ya.
Compare those scores to the '04 VW Toureg, which earned a "poor" score in an astounding eleven catergories, at least half of which could be considered critical. Only three catergories were rated adove average (less than 10% reported problem rate). Compared to that, the 7 looks pretty good.