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High End Luxury Cars

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Comments

  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    You and syswei are smart guys, but:

    Nah - I think Buick was his first love.

    Nope! ;)

    M
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    "Compare those scores to the '04 VW Toureg, which earned a "poor" score in an astounding eleven catergories, at least half of which could be considered critical. Only three catergories were rated adove average (less than 10% reported problem rate). Compared to that, the 7 looks pretty good."

    Oh, please! Compared to the Peugeot, the 7 looks pretty good too! Doing better that a Touareg, the worst SUV on the planet, does not make the 7 a reliability champ. Compare the 7 to a Lincoln Town Car, and it looks pretty awful.
  • doug889doug889 Member Posts: 60
    Bill Gates drove a Lexus LS 400 in early 90's. But outside of U.S., MB and BMW are considered more prestigious than Lexus.
  • mbzlvrmbzlvr Member Posts: 14
    My 2005 S430 has a 6 disc changer in the trunk and an single slot CD/DVD player in the dash. I think this is a great setup getting the best of both worlds. I don't think I'll be loading and reloading six discs while driving but I can handle one disc at a time. If I were on a long trip, I assume that I'll be able to take a driving break sometime before I play all six CDs in the trunk changer and would be able to exchange disc magazines while taking my driving break.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    What I like are car stereos that have the ability to read mp3 files from CDs. A 6-disc changer would be 4.2GB worth of storage, which is more than plenty for even the longest road trip, and that would negate the need for the lousy sound quality of a portable player. Plus, I'm not big on items that can become projectiles in an accident.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    But outside of U.S., MB and BMW are considered more prestigious than Lexus.

    And in the U.S. they are too.

    M
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    I had a car with the changer in the console, actually, and a slot in the dash. It was superflous to me. A 6 disc changer in the dash is optimum IMO. You can change one anytime, anyone you want, anytime, even while driving, and don't have to mess with a magazine.
  • prattsterprattster Member Posts: 59
    Says who someone who drives a Mitsubishi?? BMW's claim to fame is the $35K 3 series which is getting pounded by the better built much more reliable Japanese. Lexus built their name on LS which is the best built production luxury car of yesterday and today and will continue to domimate over the 2nd rate quality german candy cars.. Imagine the LS which was a basement bargain $38K in 1989 is now over $75K full loaded and the next ones will be over $100K..
  • oacoac Member Posts: 1,594
    My 2005 S430 has a 6 disc changer in the trunk and an single slot CD/DVD player in the dash....

    Aha.... A 2005 S430 still has a CD changer in the trunk ?? Well it may be a great setup for mbzlvr, but I submit that if a $15K Kia can have an in-dash CD changer, how can an $80K S-class have a single CD in-dash ?? For a luxury cruiser, methinks it is wrong. Period...
  • bdr127bdr127 Member Posts: 950
    I currently have an in-dash changer, and I really don't see that much of an advantage over a single disc.... Whenever I want to listen to a particular song or artist, I never remember which disc is in what slot so I don't know which disc to skip to. Or if I need to put a new disc in, I don't know which one I'd want to remove because I can't remember which disc is where.

    Overall, I wouldn't ever buy a car with a changer (even an in-dash) if it cost me anything extra.... I certainly do not see an advantage at all.

    As a result, I don't know why we are basing our ideas of what "Luxury" cars should include with regards to CD changers.... Seems pretty dumb to me. :confuse:
  • bdr127bdr127 Member Posts: 950
    BMW's claim to fame is the $35K 3 series which is getting pounded by the better built much more reliable Japanese.

    The new 3-Series is geting "pounded"?... This is news to me! Where'd you read that?
  • oacoac Member Posts: 1,594
    ...I don't know why we are basing our ideas of what "Luxury" cars should include with regards to CD changers...

    Sigh !!! Basing a luxury car on a CD changer ??? Is that how you read it ? Well, that's up to you. I am not going to try to change your mind, but I think my point is pretty clear... No need to re-harsh it again.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    "Imagine the LS which was a basement bargain $38K in 1989 is now over $75K full loaded and the next ones will be over $100K.."

    And that will put me out of the market, most likely. As great as they are, I don't need a 100K car.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    "Overall, I wouldn't ever buy a car with a changer (even an in-dash) if it cost me anything extra.... I certainly do not see an advantage at all."

    Here's the advantage. I sometimes spend a good 4hrs or more on the road, and I'm not a big fan of listening to one CD over and over during that time. Changing a single slot CD manually while driving is extremely dangerous. A changer takes care of that so I can keep my eyes on the road.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    but I submit that if a $15K Kia can have an in-dash CD changer, how can an $80K S-class have a single CD in-dash ??

    Sigh !!! Basing a luxury car on a CD changer ??? Is that how you read it ? Well, that's up to you.

    Yeah that is exactly how I read it! Your CD-confused definition of luxury is quite trivial. And while you compare the MB with a Kia here is a sentence from today's Wall Street Journal:

    One sign of DaimlerChrysler's confidence lately is its move toward higher prices for new Mercedes models. The brand's new S-Class sedan -- set to debut in the U.S. early next year -- is selling in Europe for around €70,760 ($83,000), 7% more than its predecessor version and well above the €62,000 to €68,000 starting price of its chief rival, the BMW 7-Series.

    I dont think MB is as troubled as you are about CD changers? In Fact MB sounds like a company that is at the beginning stages of a recovery!
  • lenscaplenscap Member Posts: 854
    Autoweek today is reporting that the Phaeton will be dropped in the U.S. by next July/August. 2006 will be the last model year.

    link title
  • michael_mattoxmichael_mattox Member Posts: 813
    I know that Gates owns a 01 LS430 ULTRA black on black...Just like me....

    I didn't realize he also owned a LS400 but why would I be surprised ...HE IS A VERY SMART MAN.
  • michael_mattoxmichael_mattox Member Posts: 813
    IN LEXUS THE INDASH CD CHANGER IS.... FREE....
  • michael_mattoxmichael_mattox Member Posts: 813
    It is all the little things like the in-dash changer that makes a luxury car...IT IS WHAT YOU EXPECT...THE BEST...The folding outside mirrors...Through seat cooling and heating...elec. head rest and rear window sun screen, Auto on/of lights and windshield wipers, headlight washers, Heated and self dimming outside mirrors, the little sun visor above the rearview mirror, an upper and lower lumbar support...A lot of speakers and a super sound system...Side window sun screens, the seat bottom that extends out to give more thigh support, the electric head rests, the seat controls on the side of the Backrest of the passanger seat so you can adjust the seat for mom.. ...and on and on and on....IT ALL TOGETHER SPELLS LUXURY...
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    know that Gates owns a 01 LS430 ULTRA black on black...Just like me....

    Warren Buffet drives a Lincoln Town Car and Bill Gates drives a LS430! A Toronto doctor who is recently charged for the murder of a nurse drives a LS430!

    Let us focus on the cars and not the owners!
  • oacoac Member Posts: 1,594
    Yeah that is exactly how I read it! Your CD-confused definition of luxury is quite trivial...

    How YOU see it... There are 7 Billion more people out there that may disagree with you on that....

    I dont think MB is as troubled as you are about CD changers? In Fact MB sounds like a company that is at the beginning stages of a recovery!

    WOW.. MB is in recovery ? From what, pray tell... But more importantly, let me ask you these:
    1) Would you be buying an MB soon ?
    2) Would you be putting your money where your mouth is ?
    3) Would you be investing your money in DCX about now ?
    If the answer to these 3 questions is NO, which I expect it to be, then your point is ????

    OTOH, I plan to buy the next LS. TM is as good a stock to own today as ever, as compared to the entire car maker stocks....

    Wanna see.. link title

    'Nuff said.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Good own, but not a good buy. On the other hand, I have to admit I'm a little tempted to buy some shares of GM. They are at a 13 year low, trading at some $23 right now.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    "Nuff said"

    I dont think so!

    How YOU see it... There are 7 Billion more people out there that may disagree with you on that....

    7 Billion people but only a select few who can afford a MB without a CD changer!

    1) Would you be buying an MB soon ?

    Yes a new generation MB320CDI, I would love to own one of those!

    2) Would you be putting your money where your mouth is ?

    I think money is the only way to buy a Benz, is it not?

    3) Would you be investing your money in DCX about now ?

    If I was a momenutum investor you bet I would. In the last 5 month DCX shares have increased 30%. Much more momentum than Toyota shares!

    It appears a lot of investors have confidence in a MB without a CD changer!
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    have to admit I'm a little tempted to buy some shares of GM.

    Safer with GM Bonds than the shares! I think Kerkorian made a big mistake in investing in GM equities.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    True. His chunk of GM is now worth about 200 million less than it was a few weeks ago.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Well, that's certainly overdue. How many sold? Did they sell more Phaetons than Pontiac sold GTO's? ;)
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    Inevitable and a shame at the same time as it was such a waste of resource and money. The car was just a massive strategic blunder and everyone but the CEO knew that from day one. Amazing.
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    "Would you be investing your money in DCX about now ?"

    "If I was a momenutum investor you bet I would. In the last 5 month DCX shares have increased 30%. Much more momentum than Toyota shares!"

    Not sure how you do you math but the bar chart shows Toyota up more in dollars and percentage (from January 1 and from the low points at mid year of both stocks) and that's off a stock that has stayed lofty rather than one that was falling through the floor. Most of DCX's rise is purely off a mangement change. If he doesn't show good numbers the stock will tank. A momemtum player would take TM. Much better run company, great efficiency, much stronger financial ratios and Balance Sheet, prime locale for Asia and the Japanese stock market is headed north a lot faster than the German market. On top of all that Chrysler is not sustainable.

    http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?t=1y&s=TM&l=on&z=m&q=l&c=dcx
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Actually, that Joke no longer works. For whatever reason, when the GTO was given the 400hp LS6 from the Corvette, sales took off.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    I was referring to the current price vs. its 52 week low (closing market price today/52 week low) which if you do the math DCX is exactly 29.14% ahead(50.07/38.77) while TM the figures are 27.24%(90.28/70.95).

    6 Month Chart

    Ther reason DCX should have greater future momentum than TM is that investors are finally regaining their confidence about DaimlerChryler's management. After years of Schremp's destruction of DCX, it appear DCX is resting with intravenous connections and is regaining some strength. This is a turnaround story!!
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    Your benchmark was last 5 months. There's no turnaraound story here as yet - just a management change and I don't see Chrysler as sustainable. Time will tell.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Typo I meant 6 months! But do you see how arbitrary this argument is: If you pick 5 months you win and if I pick 6 months I win.

    This is is referred to as data mining! You can find a convincing argument for any stock by using different cut off dates in calculating returns!

    My primary focus is the future and the increased optimism about DCX!

    I agree with you, time will tell!
  • blckislandguyblckislandguy Member Posts: 1,150
    Mattox, nice post. I'm no fan of the Asian Pretender (or the Synthetic brand as some call it) but you sum it up well. If MB isn't delivering this to their E and S Class Customers then they aren't competitive. Isn't it funny also that at the dealer level, the MB dealers can't deliver the customer experience you get at the synthetic brand for less money. All in all for a brand that costs more money, MB isn't cutting it. Especially with non-car nuts who don't care about tradition, "German technology", visions of an AWD uber sedan hammer down in the passing lane on a dark night on I89 heading to Montreal, etc. etc.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    You know better than that Merc1

    I also know better than to respond to such foolish nonsense too.

    M
  • lovemyclklovemyclk Member Posts: 351
    ;)
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    The problem with that definitinion of "luxury" is that sadly it doesn't include a thing about actually driving the car or how it looks/is designed. All that "stuff" can be had on a Avalon (or most of it) for a lot less money and it delivers the same isolated, we-don't-actually-want-to-drive feel of Lexus' top car. Reading that definition there is nothing to seperate a Lexus from a high-end Toyota. You get a car with more features and softer leather that looks just as bad and drives the same.

    It is amazing how the things that Lexus doesn't accel in aren't part of the "luxury" experience.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    I sometimes spend a good 4hrs or more on the road, and I'm not a big fan of listening to one CD over and over during that time. Changing a single slot CD manually while driving is extremely dangerous. A changer takes care of that so I can keep my eyes on the road.

    This is true until you have to change out one of the 6 discs in the changer, its the same thing, only you'd have to do it less often. If a car only has a single-slot CD in the dash, usually there is changer somewhere else, so you don't have to listen to the same CD over and over.

    One could also argue that fooling around with a changer with 6 discs is more dangerous than a singe-disc changer for reasons another posted listed above. Now you've got 6-CDs to fumble around with when you want to change one or any of them out.

    M
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Chrysler definitely has yet to show that its "boom and bust" history is truly behind it. Right now they've got the 300 and... nothing else. Not good. If they think that the Sebring replacement is going to get 300 sales, they are definitely in dreamland. The only Chrysler division getting any attention is Jeep, and I'm not sure that the huge expansion of that brand is a good idea. Should Jeep have a "cute-ute" crossover? Whatever happened to "trail rated?"
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    I dont change discs in the changer when driving. If I've got to go more than 6hrs without a break, which is very unusual, I just mix in some radio.
  • sysweisyswei Member Posts: 1,804
    The problem with that definitinion of "luxury" is that sadly it doesn't include a thing about actually driving the car

    I guess you're saying that handling is part of the luxury experience. There's nothing wrong with preferring good handling in a luxury car, it is a personal preference. Yet I would disagree that good handling is part of the luxury equation. Rolls Royce is obviously a luxury brand (or ultra-luxury), but are their cars known for handling?
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    No, not handling per say, just that there is no mention of driving at all. Nothing. The way a car drives, a sense of authority, should be part of the luxury equation too imo. A luxury car should impress in the drive before you even get into all the "stuff" that can be had on "regular" cars.

    Rolls-Royces "waft".

    M
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Rolls Royce is obviously a luxury brand (or ultra-luxury), but are their cars known for handling?

    BIG DIFFERENCE

    Most people drive their MBs and Lexuses
    Most poople get chauffeured in their Rolls Royces

    A wicked handling Rolls Royce will cause caviar stains on the attire of VIP passengers :(
  • sysweisyswei Member Posts: 1,804
    Most poople get chauffeured in their Rolls Royces

    More RRs are chauffered than MBs or Lexi, but I think it a strech to say that most are chauffered. I see a fair number of ultra-lux types around town (there is even a guy who drives an old RR to the train station each day) and only once have I seen one driven be a chauffer (it was a Maybach).
  • sysweisyswei Member Posts: 1,804
    The problem with that definitinion of "luxury" is that sadly it doesn't include a thing about ...how it looks

    Do you like the exterior styling of the RR Phantom? I personally find it hideous (distinctive, maybe, but still ugly), but it is still a luxury vehicle.

    Anyway Lexus is finally making some progress on the styling front....some people are going to prefer the looks of the 2007 LS over the 2007 S....well, maybe not someone with the moniker "merc1".
  • sysweisyswei Member Posts: 1,804
    Rolls-Royces "waft".

    I have never driven one so just what does "waft" mean? An invented word that equals "mushy suspension" or something?
  • michael_mattoxmichael_mattox Member Posts: 813
    A car nut who does care about tradition would buy an older Mercedes...From Back in the days when they made good reliable cars....In those days the Technology was mostly mechanical and the German engineers excelled...TO DAY the state of the art is Electronic...The Japinese EXCELL...

    If you would like a AWD Super Sedan...a Lexus GS might be just the ticket for you or by year end 06 you could probably get a AWD LS....Then go storming down that Passing lane on a dark night on I89 heading to Montreal and be VERY CONFIDENT that the car will actually get you there without breaking down.
  • michael_mattoxmichael_mattox Member Posts: 813
    Merc.

    I think you have acknowledged that you don't actually own a ULTRA Luxury Sedan, although you have driven many....

    TO me The look of the car has nothing to do with LUXURY...To me Luxury is being pampered...Being safe...not being bothered by repairs...the knowledge that no matter how far I drive my car will get me there and back without hassel.

    In my youth I did see like the thrill of driving fast, taking corners at the limit, passing other cars at will and when room to do so was tight ....

    Now a Relaxed drive with a great sound system playing, With a through the dash 6 CD player in a quiet car, smoothly crusing in ultimate comfort...free from worry ...Is an awesome experience..

    It is an added thrill having the knowledge that my car can do 0-60 in 5.9 secs. That with the push of the power and sport buttons , my car will lower for added airo- dynamics and the steering will tighten for sharper control and the gearing can be changed for added pop off the line...
  • oacoac Member Posts: 1,594
    No, not handling per say, just that there is no mention of driving at all. Nothing. The way a car drives, a sense of authority, should be part of the luxury equation too imo.

    And any car doesn't *drive* according to you ???? Does an MB drive any better than a Lexus, or a Toyota or a Honda ? Like the S-, 7-, the LS is a RWD car, which means a better driving car than any FWD car. That the car *isloates* the driver is a part of luxury Lexus defines.... that which puts the ruts and grunts of the road outside the equation. Are you suggesting that feeling the road imperfections is a MUST-HAVE for driving experience ? Is that your definition of driving ???
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    Absolutely love my driving experience in my LS. Loved the S driving experience also when I drove it. They were virtually the same. This is pure myth (and psychological) as far as I am concerned - at least as it relates to Lexus and MB. BMW and Audi may be different though given preference for sport.
  • sysweisyswei Member Posts: 1,804
    By itself no it doesn't define a luxury car. But luxury cars are in part defined by convenience, imho. Such as electrically adjustable seats, and memory systems. If Lexus didn't have them, wouldn't MB fans be criticizing Lexus for it?

    In-dash changers are an obvious convenience feature...having 300 minutes of music easily available is better than having 50... and changers are widespread enough that if a luxury car doesn't have one, then it is imho slightly lacking. Not a huge deal, but a piece of the luxury jigsaw puzzle.
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