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Comments
M
At least Infiniti's slogan is in the ballpark. It would have been foolish for Lexus to have thought up a similar slogan for the 2006 GS in my opinion.
What a fluff piece!
Amazing, more of the same irrelevant talk about sales
I feel sorry for you OAC
Problem with you is your posting style. Can often be abusive and corrosive. Such verbage has no place in a forum such as this. Please take some time to clean up your words. No need to denigrate anyone just to make a point. Stick to the cars and leave out all the personal stuff.
On the other hand, maybe it is just another case of the Toyota lawyers having the final say, like with the stupid nag screen on startup and the disconnect of most entry capabilities of the NAV system while moving. Man, I hate those lawyers! :mad:
You cant single out Toyota for NAV nag screens, everybody has that. At least in my LS and my wife's RX, you can do things like adjust the temperature or radio without hitting "I agree". Some cars wont let you do anything until you agree that you are responsible for your own stupidity.
The lack of an off switch for VSC\VDIM is annoying though. Lexus used to let you really let loose if you wanted to. I drove an SC400 sideways once with the TRAC button off and the transmission in "PWR". It was fun.
I think you should follow your own advice here because telling me I have nothing credible to say because I don't own and/or can't afford any of these cars can be taken as being very "personal" also Oac. That said, me saying I felt sorry for you was too personal, I apologize for that. That statement being a "fluff piece" should have just been called a "spin" like in other times.
M
Not by model, though.
You can all find out with a cheat code!
Here is a link discussing the cheat code but you can only read the link as html:
Turn Off VDIM
If you Think about it cars have computers and computers have always had cheat codes, so anybody can find a cheat code for any car. The following shows you the steps in disabling the traction/skid control systems VDIM on the Lexus IS:
”start the car with the parking brake on .then foot brake twice .(keep the foot brake down) .then parking brake twice (keep it down )and repeat till skid light is on the dash ..it will reset when you restart the car”
Land Rover is a surprise. Maybe the Freeloader (er...lander) moved them down the chart.
As to VDIM, I seem to remember one review liking the GS300 more than the 430 because it did not have VDIM at all.
Your name suggests that you drive the Denali trim version of the Suburban/Yukon and that you are from Pennsylvania. If this is true, then you are driving a guzzler, and you may not realize that there is a MAJOR trend towards more fuel efficient vehicles, and cleaner emmissions. If that doesn't describe you, however, just continue to check out this information:
When Toyota (world's largest) announced that EVERY vehicle will be available as hybrid within a ten year period (that's their announced goal), you can bet that the other manufacturer's will be competitive. This is good news because a hybrid vehicle can actually be much FASTER (as well as fuel efficient) than the gas-only counterpart. The reason people have thought of hybrid vehicles as "underpowered" is because they have initially been offered on econoboxes. But that is changing as we speak, with the new Lexus hybrid SUV and sedan, and Toyota Camry and Honda Accord. Other more exciting vehicles are in the works from many manufacturers at this very moment. There was a race last month between an electric race car and a Ferrari and Porsche. The electric literally blew the others away. So . . . it's not all about the gas (and it IS a good thing to get rid of the dependance on those crazy "you-know-who's"), it's also about performance. The fuel-cell technology will work its way in eventually.
Additionally, gas might be cheaper in Pennsylvania, but not everywhere in the country, and it WILL go up big time again. Political events coupled with natural events added to greed always loom on the horizon. Toyota's competition (everyone else) can not sit by and watch them build more powerful cars that also get TWICE the mpg or even better. So, the market will have to follow. And one day, your new Denali (if GM survives that long) might get decent mileage, have even MORE power, and you will still get to keep all that incredible room for eight inside that vehicle. It's a "win-win" situation . . . even for you.
Have F-U-N !!!
TagMan
What's an E60? Excuse my ignorance... Is that a 5-er?
Still, with all those drawbacks -if my next LS460 was a hybrid, for the same money as the regular one, I'd buy one. But not for $10,000 more.
Anyway, let's stay open-minded and see what the manufacturers bring to market. Generally, losers will not sell well for long, and improvements will creep their way in. This is a particularly interesting time, historically, for cars, don't you think?
BTW, I, too, would rather discuss "High-End Luxury Cars".
Take care,
TagMan
Yes, "E60" is the internal BMW engineering codename for the current body style 5-series.
as for Toyota and hybrids.....Toyota sells themselves as green while at the same time they are full speed ahead chasing GM and Ford to steal their full size pickup and Suv sales with larger more gas guzzling engines. TMC's actions would make P.T. Barnum proud and envious all at the same time!......ok having said that.....i could care less what's under the hood of my vehicle. it could be a 500 cu IC engine or 50 chimpmunks chasing acorns. as long as it performs....i'm happy
Everything else was what could be expected: expensive European cars have a higher median age and tired, aging US brands have an aging buyer. What was interesting was the relative rankings. Land Rover was quite low, tying with VW for the youngest buyer of any Euopean car line at 38. Bimmer was the youngest buyer by far at 46 years for the median buyer of the big four we wrangle about here (Lexus, MB, Jag, BMW).
where did you get the latest cool info on the median age of buyers of various cars?
TagMan
I've heard people say that about Mercedes, Cadillac & Lincoln for 25 years - the one flaw in that assumption is that they generally figure everyone 62 years old, is going to die without replacements. People turn 62 every day. Somebody has to make cars for them.....do it right, and you'll have that market, which has money.
statistically, and factually, which age groups have the most money available to buy a car?
No argument from me there, the 2001-2004 so C-Class was put together by a different company it seems, just like the 2000-2002 S-Class, very suspect. The 2005 model C feels like a different car altogether. Even one of the biggest critics (C&D) gushed over the interior quality of the C recently of a C350 Sport. Why Mercedes though they could get away with that, and the 1999-2005 M-Class is beyond me.
M
Ladies and gentlemen, allow me to present the Lexus LS430.
It is the car for "them."
As I notice this forum loves to bash everything related to GM and Ford ,Mr. Dave Power(founder of JD Power)has the following words to say about Toyota:
He even worries about Toyota, his first client and the world's most successful automaker. Industry analysts suggest Toyota will pass General Motors in 2006 to become the world's No. 1 automaker.
``Today, at Toyota, there's nobody left from when I was there in 1968,'' he said. ``Some of the younger people act a little bit like how GM people were 50 years ago.''
That potential for corporate hubris might be Toyota's biggest challenge in the years ahead, he said.
link title
Lexus currently has hybrids!
BMW, MB, Porsche and Acura have indicated an interest in future hybrid vehicles!
How can hybrids not be considered a part of a high marque vehicle discussion? They are a part of this topic as engines and transmissions are a important part of this forum.
Personally I prefer potent turbodiesels than hybrids. Discussing hybrid or turbodiesel high marque vehicles should not be out of bounds here!
Thanks,
TagMan
What a surprise that comment is. Let's see - how many company's are in the world today that existed 38 years ago? That's about how many company's you can substitute for Toyota in Power's comment.
It is the car for "them."
No kidding, hpowders. I have one. Problem is, I'm only 52, not 62, and the LS430 is pretty expensive. Saw a new one at the Motor Trend snow last weekend that went for 75,000. Mine stickered new at 61,000. Lincolns can be had for the mid $40s - a more mainstream price for masses of 62 years olds. That's all I'm saying. Cadillac has left that market and is more in the Lexus-BMW camp now, but BMW is not usually a pensioner's car.
I truly hope that the 2007 LS will look a little less conservative and Mercedes-like so it can appeal to a wider base; perhaps more of the affluent younger folks, but I'm not holding my breath.
Arrogance at MB and BMW is nothing compared to the arrogance of Toyota today!
How is this for arrogance :
Toyota claiming that they may raise the prices of their cars in order to help GM ! Treating your competitor like a beggar who is dependent on your alms is quite condescending, dont you think? Especially when the real reason Toyota is raising prices is because of steel, energy costs and higher capital expenditures.
Certain marques that we like to discuss here are notably absent.
But back on the topic (I digress)
You responded to my comment and your first word was "Disagree". But then you seemed to agree. So, shich is it? Here's what I said after indicating that I understood the point that dewey was making:
I said, "Personally, I don't think Toyota an GM share a doomed destiny..."
Did you mean to disagree with that or did you mean to respond to a different thread, or what??????????
TagMan
I agree, but how do they exploit that without "pimping" the brand? More segments? No, I would hope not. Concentrate or more high-end products like the sports cars that were to be built with Mclaren, while cutting out lower level A/B-Classes, even though they are solid hits in Europe?
M
You aren't going to get any agreement from the Japanese-are-perfect crowd here.
What I find really interesting is that anything a BMW or Mercedes executive says is deemed arrogant and out of touch with reality, yet when Danny Clements was doing all that tough talking about how Lexus was going to compete with BMW it was taken as gospel. Now that those goals haven't nearly been met at the level at which he preached and were told they would by Lexus fans who hung on his every word, what he stated is no longer important.
Yet here you'd think that only European car company execs say stupid things.
Oh lets detail that example in your post because I was just about to mention that one. Just a few months ago Toyota executives said openly that they were worried about GM's problems producing a backlash against them. In short they didn't want the public to stop buying Toyotas because Toyota is seen as the one really driving GM out of business. Toyota even offered to "raise" prices of their cars in order to help GM as you noted. That whole dialogue had to be the biggest pile of BS I'd ever seen from a modern day car "exec". Raising prices by a few hundred dollars wouldn't do anything but make Toyota more money because people already pay a "premium" for Toyotas compared to Korean cars and most other Japanese cars, yet they offered as some kind of solution to cooling off their sales to help GM. Like people who found Toyotas too expensive would all of sudden buy a Chevy or Buick. We all know they'd just buy a Honda or get a lower priced Toyota. However the kicker is that since this backlash against Toyota never formed they're now bragging about increasing production and market share in the U.S....., which is what they were going to do all along. Yet Toyota is so humble and meek, what a crock.
Now watch as Toyota's statements get spun by the faithful here as some type of genuine offer from Toyota to "help" GM out, when at best it was really disingenuous and at worst just plain old BS (which execs from every continent are capable of).
Now I'm reading where MB and BMW exec's current statements are like those of American car execs back in the day?
This theory totally ignores that Germans still make highly desirable and competent cars and still set the benchmark in more than a few classes, which the Japanese continue to chase. Yeah some of them have reliability problems, that too being blown out of proportion here, but compared to American cars back in the day which were under-engineered, ugly, slow, and just plain undesirable, today's German car are nothing like that.
The only Japanese companies that really stand out as being so good at the moment are Honda and Toyota, and even Honda isn't on fire like Toyota is, so this characterization of the "Japanese" being some kind of superior group of brands is false to say the least. There are many cracks in the armor at Nissan, and Mitsu, Mazda and other lower level Japanese brands aren't nearly as dominate or "perfect".
M
Merc1 said: "I'll take this as you didn't know what you were talking about when you first posted. If this story would have been something real it would have been all over the place, yet you're the only one that felt the need to bring it up - minus the whole story. Gotta do more research if you're going to bash.
The MB engineers working with him would be under "he's gonna run the test anyway so let us see if we can make it work so we don't get embarrased". Only to have it fail because he was too much of an idiot in the first place.
The whole thing has to be the stupidest thing I've read in years, yet you thought it was real."
A poster on CL (European) actually provided what really happened, and its fully described below... somewhat long tho'. Let's just say that the *hoax* is the faux pas that MB execs tried to pull over the (un)suspecting public... read on....definitely worth reading
-----------
"Basically, it was an test of pre-safe, something similar to PCS. This new system is one of the major features of S class. It has two radars that monitor traffic ahead, and prepare brakes and everything else in even of possible crash. It even adjusts braking power to keep the distance between vehicle ahead (so you wouldnt brake too hard if there is no real need, someone could run then into you). Same radar system works during their new distronic cruise control, which is world first that works between 0kmh and 200kmh, completly stopping the car and starting it again.
What happened was this:
1. DC wanted to demonstrate their pre-safe technology in adverse conditions (fog). They called in biggest magazine - Autobild (not MotorBild, lol), and Stern TV, which is investigative report show (very famous in Germany)
2. DC realized that system wont work in closed building and together with Autobild editor, they decided to fake it. Could Autobild editor make MB directors to fake the damn thing? I find that really ridicilous. What happened is that they didnt want to loose face in front of Stern TV, which would then publish it.
3. DC in arragment with Autobild editor, put an board over one part of the track so Autobild editor would know when to start braking. They thought system has only 40% of chance to work.
4. SternTV had several cameras around and mike on the Autobild editor. Before the first run, they heard when Autobild ed was complaining to MB guy how he is worried that TV will notice that there was no sound warning in the car when he started braking. This is when Stern TV took notice and started taping everything closer.
5. Ed went off in new S class, and since it is small track, he forgot himself and did not brake when he should have, simply running into the next car. MB blamed it on the building and got another s class in.
6. TV started taping hushed discussions between MB employees. They were denied passanger seat in new test. They taped the board over the track.
7. Next run, Ed was braking long before even board was hit, so they had to repeat it.
And finally, Stern TV published report that mage huge deal out of MB trying to fake the test, together with Autobild. They got one of the DC bosses in who explained how they knew system wouldnt work so they put the board over. He apologized to Stern TV for not letting them know that :-).
What happened was MB trying to save their face in the eve of S class launch. This is one of their biggest new features and they didnt want to admit it doesnt work always. They got Autobild Editor to agree, I suspect they are long time buddies but they wanted TV not to notice anything. They have been basically caught with their pants down, and lost huge deal of credibility.
To blame it on Autobild is pretty funny, while editor shouldnt have agreed, he was the one who seemed worried and twitchy, younger guy with lots of upper DC executives around him."
-----
Hmmmm..... a *hoax* indeed, except that the real question should be: who exactly is trying to fool the other???
source: link title
When some forum members predict the demise of Audi or MB because of certain reliability issues it makes me laugh as I refer to some dated Consumer Reports that are over 30 years old.
Thirty years ago Audi and BMW reliability measures were below average in the past and was even worse than today when compared to the competition! Was Audi and BMW doomed from the American market because of these issues? Absolutely not because BMW, and Audi produced and currently produce some of the "Best of the Class" vehicles in the industry!
Unlike BMW and Audi, the reliability of MBs were bullet-proof in the past and I have living proof in our garage(my wife's 83 MB300D). Despite current reliability issues with certain MB vehicles today, MB will continue thriving as long as they build exciting Benchmark vehicles that people dream of owning. But I have confidence MB's reliability issues will be resolved since MB itself has made it a priority to resolve. Zetsche appears to be someone who translates his "words" into "deeds".
The institute, which judges cars by size class, has designated 10 automobiles to receive the new awards. In the first results, released last night, Volkswagen AG and its luxury brand Audi was the clear winner, taking five of the 10 awards. .
Five out Ten for Audi/VW is not bad! Safety is an important issue for many! Probably a bit more important than reliability? I think so!
It is interesting though that MB and Volvo, with their heritage and reputation as safety innovators, didn't make the list.
If Toyota and the other Japanese automaking powerhouses (namely, Honda and Nissan) meet a less than glorious end, and it's very probable in 30, 40 years, it won't be because of GM, Ford, DCX or any Western company. It will be because of a collection of Chinese and Indian companies, most of them unheard of or even existing today! I read that, in 2050, the Chinese economy will be 7 times the Japanese company! That'll be pretty odds Toy will have to play against.
Try like 5-10 years ago Audi was building absolute, marginal junk and they improved recently because the Japanese spanked them soundly in quality and durability. After all this is a VW product with a nicer showroom. They never beat the competition in anything other than interior which Lexus easily has in spades and even Acura. Guess which one of these will easliy run to 250K like the old Legend and LS's do?? The new M35/45 is even better executed than anything they could muster up.
These same bozo engineers at BMW used plastic water pump impellers on these "fine cars". We won't even get into the electrical christmas trees lights flashing. Which is why anything built to last in that country is suspect to begin with. Cars that look good on the skin but break easy that's german for you. BMW is best in class for ugliness and cheezy new interiors.. Who's cost-cutting their interiors the worst today? BMW easily followed by M.B.
Merc1 what's your take on why Mercedes had to borrow the Mazda RX 8 on its flagship car(could it be because it was designed in Japan?)and current Toyota RAV 4 design for the 06 ML.. Isn't it funny how the MB copying theme is now on the other foot?