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But, sure enough, here you are saying that no credit is ever given. It happened, my friend, and credit was given the Lexus where it was due, and so were some criticisms (of the vehicle, not any persons), so be prepared. It must have been a miracle and you missed it. So, check back on the posts (#11858, I believe) a couple of pages, read through some of the rest of the mess, and then you can restate yourself in a new post.
TagMan
But since getting these cars, they had become complacent NFL LoSers over the last 2 years.
Lethargic players driving lethargic cars.
I believe the car made them perform on the field like er... geezers.
They have a winning record this year.
Must have traded those LS's in for BMW 545's.
They are playing with more pizzazz!
And that, my friend, is as serious as I am going to get! I trust you will forgive me, for whatever the hell it is that I said!
;-)
Hmm, is it worth the money to have a Jag? Maybe you should consider a poor little ol’ Carrera. You’ll still be around your 1% capabilities threshold but will have cut the price just about in half. You can even get a 996 Turbo for nearly the price of a new rank-and-file Carrera. Lexusguy, there are plenty of ways to get your money’s worth out of a Porsche.
Which models have this ? And what is a *comfort seat* ? Bigger thigh support, lumbar support, or more beef in the padding ? BTW, my LS seats are plenty comfy for me. If they get any comfier(?) I'd simply fall asleep driving. Don't want that, being a geezer who drives an LS
Now, lets see the rest of your creative talents. Show us that you can bat from both sides of the plate. Let me give you a running start:
"The average MB buyer is eager to make an impression. So eager in fact that in most cases he isn't even a buyer but someone who leases. He typically is a crass materialist, more interested in impressing valets and strangers at stop lights than he is in reliability, value for his money, or even resale. He is more likely to wear a gold Rolex Presidential, faux or real, then an Audimar(?) Piaget, when he shops for clothing he is very label conscious and would rather have a polo player imprinted on his dress shirt than a breast pocket,when he invests he'd rather buy a load fund through his broker than a low cost, better performing index fund from Vanguard, ...."
I was kidding of course. You know I love your posts, humor and great personality.
BTW - I did recently ask my sales guy what kind of percentages lease vs. buy. He used to sell MB's and now moved to Lexus under Ray Catena's corp here in NJ. He said about 2/3rds of the MB's are leased and Lexus is over 50% but not as high as the MB ratio. But that's just his experience.
Why don't you go to your local BMW dealer and check out the new 550 with the comfort seats. Take it for a spin.
It could be a turning point in your life. (pun intended!)
OAC - The news on the 2007 LS is now known to Lexus dealership owners but not the sales people. Apparently some big meetings with Japan execs took place regionally and one nationally in Vegas. I'll see what I can find out from my source. But I do know the car we saw in Tokyo is high 90's percent wise what we are getting.
BTW - the entertainment industry are big time embracers of hybrids. From what I know many agents snap up the RX hybrid for their clientele and believe it ot not they've already deposited the GX hybrid and the LS hybrid this far in advance.
He apologized as fellow raccoons should and all is well again.
Woo! Woo!
Ultimately, the biggest difference is that the Porsche is a sports car, and the Jag is a GT cruiser. They really arent even competitors, the Jag is more in league with the Maserati, XLR, and SC430. Any nice day with some sun and a back road, and the Jag is worth it. Porsche's arent made for bumpy PA back roads with 40mph speed limits.
Also, I've been buying my Jag convertibles at 3 years old, much cheaper than even the base Carrera. Used Porsche's actually hold their value.
Did I actually read someone begging for forgiveness? What forum is this? I must have signed in to the wrong website or something.
(Actually, good to hear a little harmony around the campfire)
BTW, lexusguy, are you into Jags? Which ones?
OMG, I finally got back on the forums tonight after company left, and it has taken me forever to catch up with you guys. Some of the most vociferous bickering I've observed in my 13 months of posting here. Glad to see we seem to have calmed down a bit, apparently with only one post (at least that I noticed by the numbers) needed to be removed by Pat. Perhaps some of you should consider taking medication the next time the Edmunds server goes offline, so the juices will not be flowing so strongly when the servers come back up! :P
Anyway, thanks Len for defending us current/former MB owners. I think you pegged my viewpoint on this nearly perfectly. Certainly anyone who puts down north of $50,000 for one of these cars has to be aware of how the cars are perceived by others. If you really don't want any attention and don't care about creature comforts, you drive an old Ford (like some really rich "old money" people I have known). You're much less likely to be carjacked in one of those! So "status" must figure into the equation for every buyer in this category, at least to some extent. But there are certainly lottery winners who when asked what they are going to do first with their windfall, say "I'm going to buy me a new Mercedes!" These folks are making a decision based almost entirely on status. On the other hand, people who test drive many of these cars, read magazines (from the auto ones to Consumer Reports), research online, etc., before making their final selection are likely putting pure status farther down in their priorities.
But Howard, I don't consider myself a "geezer" either. Maybe a bit conservative in my personal values (after being a rabble rouser in the late '60s) and tastes, but geezer? I think even my teenage kids wouldn't call me that! But I would agree that someone looking to recapture their lost youth probably wouldn't find their satisfaction in buying an LS. But my 83 year-old uncle loves his LSes (on his third one now and I just persuaded him to wait until the '07s come out before replacing his current one), and I did have some misgivings before I bought my '05 whether it was perceived by others as a "geezer" car. However, when I went into the Lexus dealers here (around DC), I saw plenty of 40-60 year-olds doing the buying -- certainly not any older than the people looking at an S or a 7.
The only thing I can say about MB buyers in the last few years is that apparently some of them were not heavy pre-purchase researchers. You can see some of their posts in the E- and S-Class forums here, which say something like "I'm having problems with my new MB and came here and see that other people seem to be as well. Is there a problem with the reliability of these cars?" Duh, just maybe! :sick:
OK, enough of this. Time for this "successful, professional entrepreneur" or "geezer" (depending on who you believe) to go to bed. Good night, Gracie.
I was just having some fun. No slight intended.
Heck-I'm not too far from geezer time myself!
Even though I am a BMW fanatic, I am looking forward to finally seeing and driving the new LS.
I drove the 2005 LS 3 times and had some reservations about the car-the driver's seat, steering, brakes and body lean.
I look forward to finding out for myself whether the new LS is an improvement.
I know it will probably be a big success stylistically as I am sure Lexus has heard the "Mercedes copycat" complaints loud and clear.
Merc1 has already posted that he will be attending the North American International Auto Show in Detroit on January 8th for the WORLD PREMIERE unveiling of the new LS!
I eagerly look forward to his first impressions even though Lexus will probably be keeping onlookers a "safe" distance away so they really will not be getting a good view of the interior (as they did when the GS was first revealed).
if your priority is ride/luxury then I am sure you are going to love the new LS.
If your priority is performance/handling then I am sure you are going to have a hard time saying farewell to your BMW 545!
It is not a question of which car is better or worse, but which car is more suitable to your individual needs.
True, such logic is lame.
The BMW525i is a fantastic car because it sells well? I dont think so!
The pretensious Camrys and Highlanders with a Lexus logo are wonderful vehicles because they sell well? I dont think so!
I am expecting really smart styling here.
I don't know about performance improvements, but I will be driving one when it comes out late 2006 to see for myself.
I'm here now and any post that talks about others instead of the cars or the marques is going to be (and is being) removed.
If those posts don't stop, this discussion is history. We are not here to snipe at and insult each other nor are we here to make sweeping generalizations about any group of people.
This discussion has a long history and has certainly had its ups and downs over the years. Lots of very worthwhile commentary has been made here and I hope it can continue.
But we're not going to keep going down the path that so many of you can't seem to get away from.
Anyway, the style similarity across the model lines is a concern. A flagship needs to be just that, in my opinion . . . a flagship . . . stand apart, definately in the lead.
The all-aluminum beautiful Jag XK is a TOTALLY different beast. What would you base your choice on, since the cars are SO different?
If you want to talk to me, email me.
Thank you.
I wonder, if this was a Lexus, Infiniti, Acura show if the turnout would have been better?
Maybe not too many people want to spend $60-80K on a car.
This seems to be an American coup.
Does anybody know if an American auto show has ever had an International brand model world premiere before this one?
http://www.lynxtrack.com/afclick.php?o=1313&b=9dbfp3hy&p=3896&l=1
Sept/Oct'06?
The car was roped off on a high platform and the doors were closed.
Nobody from Lexus would open any of the doors.
Exterior viewing only.
One has to assume, the folks going to Detroit on January 8th will be disappointed if they expect to get a good view of the interior of the new LS.
I don't get it. If you are going through the trouble of exhibiting a car, have somebody there who will open the doors upon request.
I'm getting a real laugh reading some of the posts here..Bill Parcells, probably one of the best coaches in football always says, "Your Record says what you are.."
The ultimate judge of success for any business is $$$. You can argue the whole prestige angle all you want, but it is meaningless if the carmarker isn't making money.
I've seen plenty of posters dispute the notion that
product X that sells more than Y is "Better." "Better" is a very subjective thing. Is a Jaguar "Better" than a Lexus? It probably has "Better" prestige, and they used to have better styling. How much would anyone wager that Jaguar would Kill to have Lexus' Sales Volume right now..
At the end of the day, Carmarkers are in the business of making $$$. The more the Better!!!
All this talk of Engine choices and Wheelbases makes me laugh..You can customize a Scion in probably 20 ways..Does that make it more exclusive than the LS430?
We all know the demographics of those who own these cars, late 40 to early 50 making a decent six figure salary. Let's not kid ourselves into believing a potential LS430 owner is going to also consider a M5 or E55. Lexus clearly is not aiming for that market share, at least with the LS430..
I've noted some of the Lexus PR targeting BMW. It's pure marketing nonsense IMHO. I think the GS was a big miss, if that is what they are trying to accomplish. Why equip the car with a Traction Control system that can't be turned off then? Why not offer a 6 spd manual? If they built Lexus cars to compete with BMW they'd alienate their existing customer base. I suspect this whole marketing campaign is mere hyperbole, much like their changing the Relentless Pursuit of Perfection to the "Passionate" Pursuit of Perfection.
I saw this link on the web:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10387050/
It ranks the most expensive cars to own in terms of depreciation. Notice how the list is populated with German cars.
Someone commented that a $65K car should sell more than $85K car. This is probably true. But I did uncover a curious fact from the web. In the mid 80's Rolls Royce was advised to increase the price of their cars. They did so, and their sales increased. I think the "Snob" Factor was part of this. I do believe with a lot of these "Prestige" items Price = Better.
I think we are NOT representative of the typical High End marque buyer. We are all passionate about our brands. Ask the typical surbuban yuppie about their 3 Series, and they probably won't know much about the technical aspects of the car. Ask a typical LS430 owner about DVD vs CD based Nav Systems and they probably wouldn't know either.
I think some posters have hit the nail on the head when they said Image and Snobbery are prime motivators in the purchase of these cars for many. I feel this holds true for ALL the brands discussed, not just the German ones.
SV