High End Luxury Cars

adob · June 2001

Thats a lame excuse... not enough room. Jeez, you engineer a $58k car, I'd think some engineer on staff could've come up with a way to squeeze an extra couple of inches. The changers, even in glove box are a pain and end up retaining the same CD's for an extended period. This one item of convenience could make or break the purchase for me, amongst others but still on the list.

fenn · June 2001

This is not the first car with a CD unit in the glovebox. It is far better than the trunk mounted units. I have two CD cartridges and I can rearrange my music and switch cassettes in 10 seconds. I guess it may have been nice to have it in the dash, but with all of the other techno-stuff, and to leave room for navigation, etc., I think it might need more than a couple of inches or room in order to put a full CD changer in the dash.

vbnm · June 2001

the new q's interior is very tasteful, tape deck or no tape deck, but i'm surprised that volvo is still the only company that offers a concealed, pop-up navigation screen. as useful as they are, these huge screens in the middle of dashes kill interior design, imho.

rexconde1 · June 2001

I30 Doesnt it have a popup NAV? I'm not sure.
I thought that on the commercial it looked like it did.

The Z8 did a good job with the NAv screen
Robert

mvargo1 · June 2001

Yes the I30 uses a pop up nav., However because the Q's screen is a multifunction display it would have to be deployed all the time anyway. At least it is high enough on the dash that you can see it without taking your eyes off the road too much.

arcoates · June 2001

I personally have never used a navigation system, but I personally think that having the nav bundled with climate and audio systems is a bad idea. It is much easier to push a button preset than have to scroll or do whatever else you do with the screen. It is much safer and it seems that the "old" is superior according to some of the magazines. I also think the screens are ugly (what is with the RX300 using a screen even when there is no nav system?), so the concealed pop up sounds like a better choice to me.~ A.R.

badtoy · June 2001

is hidden by a beautiful wood cover plate when not in use.

bitkahuna · June 2001

A.R. - first off, I agree the RX300's non-nav screen is hokey - and I should know, my wife drives an RX300.

However, I don't agree screens combining nav with climate and audio functions are always bad. The thing I'm amazed at with my GS400 system is how well they traded off real buttons with the screen. ALL major functions still have buttons (driver and passenger temp., audio tuning,seeking,ff/rew/next/prev/etc., air flow, etc.) and regardless of what the screen is displaying (a map, radio stations, what CD is playing, climate setup) all the buttons still function. The screen is only needed for minor rarely used controls except in the case of audio and nav, where you need it to pick a station or CD, or of course pick a destination or 'finger scroll' the map to see another part, etc.

It works really well. With all due respect to BMW's driving wonderfulness, the ergonomics of my neighbor's 540i with nav system are foul.

arcoates · June 2001

I don't think I would mind having my display on the nav screen, but as long as I can have buttons to push for presets or climate controls that's fine. It's this scrolling through menus thing to find what you want (that's what I hear the COMAND system in the MB cars is like) that would bug me and seem unsafe.~ A.R.

bitkahuna · June 2001

I agree both the COMAND and current BMW systems are bad. Probably designed by 'geeks' who thought it was cool without really trying to find simplicity in use.

I'm concerned the iDrive system will not be good either. They've apparently gone to a single 'big knob' that I believe can be pushed in one of 8 directions to select commands/menus, or can be pushed in, presumably to select things, or rotated, presumably to select a value through a range.

I hope BMW tests it on U.S. consumers, who love things dumbed down!

arcoates · June 2001

This iDrive may be a new cool gadget, but like COMAND may be too complicated in the sense that it takes too much thinking to do anything. Sure, one knob to control everything sounds good, but will it be safe to use? What will the dash look like with no other buttons? I hope they test it out too, and not make a fool of themselves if it stinks~ A.R.

pablo_l · June 2001

...up to now, I hate them all. The Jag has an incredibly stubborn one, which will near demand you do a U-turn on the highway when you decide to bypass its recommendation because you think you know a better overall way. And the other ones aren't much better. Printing directions on Yahoo Maps is still far more reliable than any navigation system. They definitely aren't worth the $2k or so car vendors are charging for them.

bitkahuna · June 2001

I'd rather have my car talk to me and tell me directions rather than futzing with printouts while driving.

blehrlich · June 2001

I think the COMAND system is actually very simple to use, especially in conjunction with the voice activation system (the telephone integration is spectacular, something Lexus could learn from). It does, however, require reading the manual, something which people generally do not like to do. I don't really use the nav system much, so I really cannot comment on that.

The climate controls on the MB, by the way, are completely independent of the COMAND system.

is4b2rd · June 2001

I don't know why there is so much negative comments about the Mercedes COMAND system. Except for wishing it was touch screen, I find it easy to use.

I do have a suggestion to the car companies that are going towards everything on the screen, e.g. nav, stereo, a/c. Why not allow it to be customizable by the user (driver). That way you can have YOUR frequently used buttons there on the display, and not the ones you hardly ever or never use. Similar to these new remotes where you can customize them for your tv/dvd/home entertainment system.

fenn · June 2001

The nature and features of these systems are intrepreted subjectively by each owner or driver. Needless to say, all sophisticated electronic systems require the user to get familiar and comfortable. Since many of these sytems are relatively new, it will be interesting to see if more standardized systems and features come into play over the next decade or so.

mvargo1 · June 2001

Keeping ones hands on the wheel and eyes on the road is one of the best features of a full voice activation system like the one standard on Q45 and optional on the S-Type and X-Type

conundrum · June 2001

Shaq also wins his second straight MVP award of the NBA finals.
Congratulations to the Lakers.
Did Shaq know that Lesux has been relentlessly in pursuit of stealing Mercedes' styling, last century and this century?

badtoy · June 2001

Get yourself a glass of water and go back to sleep.

pablo_l · June 2001

...in my opinion, it is not that difficult to memorize directions. I print them out, and know where to go, and henceforth remember how to get there. On the few occasions where the system does add value, its inflexibility often offsets the potential benefits. These systems mostly insist on you taking the more crowded roads everywhere. When you have a good knowledge of local shortcuts, it is pathetic the system can't really adapt to it and keeps mouthing useless directions until you get very close to your destination. I'd rather have an extra audio-CD slot, really. Navigation systems have a long way to go.

bitkahuna · June 2001

If you don't need it, great. But I don't enjoy trying to memorize directions, and as for local shortcuts, my nav system has allowed me to find TONS of ones I never new existed (not by it giving me directions, but by me manually scrolling the map when stopped at a light for example, to see if a local road I've never been on goes anywhere useful. You can also tell systems not to use highways in finding and giving directions.

I agree though that they can be better, but I'm not sure if any nav system would satisfy you.

adob · June 2001

I love the Nav systems and my next car will not be without one. Yes they are not perfect yet, but like anything will get better and better. Recently I was visiting relatives in Virginia and had the use of my sisters 2000 Q45 with a CD based unit (bet the new DVD is even better). I sat in her driveway ready to pick-up a friend at the airport, touched the "Airport" button, and voice and map got me their effortlessly. Once the pickup was made, we decided for breakfast. Not knowing the area, searched the Nav for a breakfast joint, picked one out a list of 20, 8 minutes later we were grazing. Most include food, ATM's gas stations and hotels - very cool when in a rival gangs territory. Yes, it did provide dumb ways to get to 1 or 2 places during the week, yes the Navs female voice insessantly kept saying "When safe, pull a U-turn", but if ignored, it would automatically recalculate the best directions from where you happened to be - eventually it came across the way I wanted to go. Not perfect, but I still remember those yummy pancakes at the Silver Diner....

is4b2rd · June 2001

Though I don't use mine that much, there have been a couple times where I thought I'd take a shortcut, or maybe missed an exit, and all I do is call up my work or home on the nav and it gets me back to familiar roads quickly. It is worth it to me if I only use it once a year. :-)

ripinrocket · June 2001

Nothing extravagent.

I drove it Monday night at Infinit dealer. As last time, they had about 15 Q45's on the lot eating dirt.

Pros:
It is quick to fast.
It's got a very smooth, quiet,and responsive engine. Likewise, the engine works well with transmission. Can't tell you though if it does 0-60 in 5.9 as stated by Infiniti because I'm lousy at telling by seat of the pants dyno.
-The interior styling is nice & unique. Infiniti has nice color combos. Seats are very comfortable and somewhat supportive when cornering.
-The NAV system is pretty easy to use, and overall ergonomics are excellent.
-it's got nice & tight steering without being as tight as a BMW.
-It handles good, but not as good as 18" wheels would lead you to believe.
-Interior room is good although the swoopy cabin gives a noticeable c-pillar blindspot.

Cons:
-The reverse camera thing is stupid-useless really.
-Some of the interior materials are cheap. and it needs more wood trim. Why is the tape deck way down there??? heeeelllllloooo.
-The ride is not as smooth as I would have expected from a luxury car.
-The exterior styling is downright ugly. Rear end looks like a A6 and Jaguar XK8 cross. Front end looks like a Maxima & Buick cross.
-The trunk is small as the magazines say and the opening is narrow.
-the clock in the center of the dash looks out of place. Everything is digital in the cabin but the clock.
-slamming the doors you can hear some *cheapness* in the car. Same with trunklid.

Overall: Very good car, although it's mission in the class is still confusing. It's billed as a performance sedan but doesn't handle all that well despite 18" wheels and performance tires. And it's not as luxurious as a S-class or LS430. but it's definately a step in the right direction for Infiniti. Things couldn't have gotten worse from the last Q45.

carphart · June 2001

ripnrocket, some good observations, but also some subjective silliness. You seem to have a need to inject negativity towards Infiniti, and diregard the price/value issues.

I do not think that people can disregard the 15k or more difference between this car and the S class.....or the $7000 difference between the Q and a comparable LS430.

I am not a car reveiw hobbyist like ripnrocket. As a real buyer, I do reflect on the value. I may try to extend my 740i lease to wait for the new big Beemer, which promises to be the ultimate leader in this class...but, if I do get a new "ride" this year, it will probably be the new Q45. It is a neat car at a good price, and it is somewhat different from the other cars d'jour.

By the way, ripnrocket notes that "everything is digital in the cabin" Nope, the instrumeent, cluster is not.

Meanwhile, I am going to stick with my Road and Track reviews.

ripinrocket · June 2001

Oh, sorry. I forgot to mention value. Yes, one of the pros is that the Q45 costs about $5K less than a LS430 and about $15K less than a base S430.

Although, it is obvious that big price difference is not swaying many, if anyone, to buy a Q45 over a E-class, 5-series, S-class, LS430, GS-series, or many other cars in the class.

Might as well mention as a *CON*, the expected resale value of a Q45. Over the years, the Q45 has held it's value very poorly compared to Benz & Lexus. So basically if you are going to own it, that $5K difference means almost zilch.

ripinrocket · June 2001

About my negativity. I don't see any car out there that is perfect. That means every car has it's cons.

Oh, sorry, the instrument cluster isn't digital. Still that timepiece looks out of place.

fenn · June 2001

Thanks so much! I have been waiting anxiously for the ripnrocket report. He is the ultimate honda-driving luxury car authority!

im_brentwood · June 2001

Good point ripn. Q45s have had, especially the 97-01s, TERRIFYING depreciation.

Unless you're leasing (I.E. LS430 may do better than an XJ8L resale-wise but the Jag leases better due to subvention) that's something that people just dont pay close enough attention to.

For my money, the XJ8 is an awfully good buy. Especially as a 2-yr old car.

Bill
95 VDP
97 XJ6
00 XKR CV

stebu · June 2001

Historically, the Q45 has suffered from poor resale. However, that fact alone dosen't necessarily predict what the new Q might do. It is a new design, and by most unbiased accounts, a far better and more competitive vehicle within it's class. Something that is especially true when compared to the aging XJ8. Coupled with the current resurgance of the Infiniti/Nissan brand that is now underway across the board, the Q just might prove to be both a short and long term bargain. Only time will really tell.

BTW, I love the Q's clock. It's a very classy analog touch in this increasingly digital world. Sort of a Rolex awash in a sea of Timex's.

carphart · June 2001

As a beautiful timeless car, a late model XJ8 Jaguar might be a good buy. Despite the age of the design, and the forthcoming changes, there is something beautiful and unique about a Jaguar. The V8 feels nice too (I would avoid the older XJ6). If you love the look, and find it comfortable, it might be a wise choice. Since I am a tall person, I find the Jaguar's major negative issue to be the Jag's cabin ergonomics. It has to do with the low roofline and cabin height.

carphart · June 2001

By the way, I agree with stebu, having looked at the photos of the new Infiniti G35, the new 2003 QX45 sport SUV, and the new Nissan Altima, I think that Nissan/Infiniti may go from a follower to a leader in the next two years. The new Q may not be a high volume car, but as the flagship of the Infiniti/Nissan stable, with good reviews, it should get attention and will gain it's own following.

im_brentwood · June 2001

Try a LWB...

XJ8L or Vanden Plas. Big diff.

Still, I'd be very surprised of the new Q has good resale.

I'd be freaking amazed. Although anything has to be better than the previous car. Even made a Caddy look good

Bill

ripinrocket · June 2001

Donfenn,

Glad to hear you were waiting for it!

The G35 looks good inside and out. That's gonna take on the 3-series, C-class, IS300, A4, in a big way. It won't push the 3-series or C-class over though.

As far as Nissan going from follower to leader, don't bet on it. Toyota's got a new 2002 Camry coming which is 100% better looking than the current Camry and it is rumored to have a big power jump and the 2003 Accord is not to far away either, and I'm sure you can expect about 230-240 bhp out of both Accord & Camry. And a 22 bhp advantage for the Maxima hasn't helped it lead and not follow the Accord & Camry. More than just power is needed, and we have yet to see what the Altima possesses. Besides if anyone has noticed, Nissan/Infiniti's power numbers seem to be overrated or their drivetrain's are zapping power somewhere.

fenn · June 2001

Ripnrocket..... Hondas and Toyotas are vehicles that you might actually buy! The Honda dealer will give you a good trade in on your current Honda too!

ripinrocket · June 2001

Donfenn,

Huh? Your last post makes no sense.

i would get a good trade at a Honda dealer for my Honda, but you won't get a good trade for your infiniti even at a Hyundai dealer.

fenn · June 2001

Relax. I really do want to hear everything that a Honda-driving "wanna-be" has to share. You are the man!

Yeah, right.

stebu · June 2001

Sales numbers alone do not a leader make! As I'm sure many of the high end vehicle owners here would attest too. Not to stray to far from the topic heading, but the Maxima has been quite a success to date. Also, I would say that it probably appeals more directly to shoppers who are interested in a VW Passat then a Camry or Accord (i.e. the sportier side of the brain).

At any rate, Infiniti is certainly stepping up to the plate and taking some mighty big swings over the next couple of years. Again, only time will tell if the new Q45 or G35 is a home run or just a major league pop up. But at least Infiniti isn't trying to bunt it's way back into the game.

dado420 · June 2001

Here's a story:

The BMW 7series is a great car. If you want performance, get this. really get it. Preferrably the 740i Sport.

If you want a full luxury auto you got 2 choices
the LS430 and the S-class Merc. The LS430 is simply ugly but it's gotta alot of qualities that make up for it's ugliness like luxury, quiet, quality, sharp interior and feautres galore. The S-class has got that minus the interior, but it's got more performance and a bigger price-tag and a gorgeous exterior.

The Infiniti Q45 is a wannabe something that we don't know what it wants to be. on the one hand it wants to be a BMW 740i, on the other hand it want's to be a LS430, but in the process it turns into neither and turns into cow dung. Let's see it's as ugly as a Maxima, even looks like one from the front, it's interior is downright a disaster, and even with 340bhp it only does 0-60 in 5 1/5 seconds. Nor is it's handling as great as the 740i or S430 sport even with 18" wheels & tires. And it doesn't even handle better than the barge called the LS430. The Infiniti Q45 is basically a wannabe BMW-Lexus-Benz for people who can't afford a 740, LS430, S430.

Anyone see pics of the new 7-series in C&D this month? I thought BMW would design a nice looking automobile but it too, looks like cow dung. The current 7-series looks much nicer and I would rather rock that thing with the 2002's engine and drivetrain.

lemko · June 2001

I saw that picture as well! It looks awful! It barely resembles a BMW anymore. It looks more like a cross between an Audi and a Misubishi Diamante. The current 7 is infinitely more attractive!

arcoates · June 2001

well, I've seen pics of the new 7 at:

http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/9323/new7.htm

and I think it looks great. As usual, they don't do anything radical, just soften the lines and make some performance upgrades (new lights, better aerodynamics etc...) and then beat the pants off of the competition for a few years until the others can catch up. Can you tell I am biased towards BMW?

As for someone who said that the new I35 is going to be a major contender, I think not. Unless they are switching to RWD and have a new handling package, it won't be much for the 3 series, X-Type, A4 or C-Class. It will compete with the Acura Type-S, and that's all. A FWDer from Japan will never truly compete with the europeans. The IS300 is the only thing close because it has RWD, a I6 and a sport tuned suspension.~ A.R.

stebu · June 2001

I think what was mentioned was the newly announced North American Infiniti G35, not I35. The G35 will have RWD and a 3.5L 6-cyl. It's based on the XVL concept. In Japan it will be sold as the next generation Skyline. Unfortunately, it looks like Nissan will still only have it's GT-R overseas. But, now sold as it's own model.

BTW, the base A4 is FWD with a 4-cyl, so I suppose it must not compete anywhere

mmcbride1 · June 2001

At least it's got 170 hp, and not an anemic 140. And the G20 doesn't have an AWD option, the A4 does...

arcoates · June 2001

I'm sorry, I thought you were talking about the new I35. As for this G35, forgive me but I have not heard anything about it until now. Is it like the Lexus IS300 for Infiniti?~ A.R.

merc1 · June 2001

Oh my gawd here we go again talking about probably the worst car to wear a so-called "Luxury nameplate. The G20 doesn't compete with anything higher than an Accord. The car doesn't belong in here or really anwhere else, hence the giveaway strategy to move them, which still isn't working. Lets get back to the real "Luxury" cars in the title of this thread.

M

mbaudibest1 · June 2001

the pics of the new 7 in the site you listed are quite nice and very conservative. the car is quite beautiful. however, those pics are not the current spy pics, as CandD and a website called www.whatcar.co.uk has brand new pics showing a really ugly 7 series. hopefully these are fakes or very good computer simulated pics. i hope that the site you were looking at really has the correct pics.

merc1 · June 2001

I too hope the pics at www.whatcar.co.uk aren't the absolute real thing, if so the new 7 isn't quite what I expected in the looks dept.

M

mvargo1 · June 2001

The G35 is a 260HP rear drive compact sport sedan, that will eventually appear in coupe and convertable form as well. It should be a serious contender in the sport sedan field.

Oh yeah, the clock. That is just an Infiniti thing. The Q has always had it except in 97-98. It just isn't an Infiniti without the clock. That is why they have been adding it to the other models as they go along.

and its 145HP for the current G20, thank you very much.

bitkahuna · June 2001

Those pictures on that Geocities web sites are all guesses, not pictures of an actual car, except the first one on the right side which is very dark and very disguised.

Car & Driver (not online though as far as I can tell) had actual pictures in their most recent issue, and those pictures look NOTHING like the guesses on the web site referenced here.

I actually think it's going to look great when it comes out, but quite a departure from current looks.

pat · June 2001

Everyone is welcome to share his or her opinions of the VEHICLES. Negative opinions of other Town Hall members are not appropriate here in accordance with the Terms of Use requirement for civility and respect.

Talk about the cars - not each other.

Pat
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