High End Luxury Cars

tagman · January 2006

Let's face it . . . most of us that are posting comments here are enthusiasts. The typical driver that is all HYPED up from the brilliant Lexus marketing will be persuaded that he/she is driving the equivalent of a BMW in terms of performance even though the auto mags will ultimately prove that there is little comparison. And with that Lexus Park-Assist gimmick, you can bet that many folks will eat it up like candy. I can just see it now . . . all the wives showing the other wives (maybe even the guys, too, God help us) how their cars can park themselves. This is a basically worthless feature that appears to be amazing on the surface, and it has huge marketing potential for Lexus. It's like a high-tech magic trick . . . on with the show. Lexus marketers really are brilliant.

And since when is it a surprise to see the Toyota/Lexus connection when it comes to styling? The photos provided by Merc1 are more evidence. They should not be a surprise to anyone. This is standard operating procedure for Toyota/Lexus/Scion. It's what they do . . . and they do it well. Heck, they are not the only ones that do this. Many manufacturers will dress up a basic platform and "position" it higher on the model or badge lineup. What's the big surprise here?

TagMan

scott1256 · January 2006

If buyers love and use a feature it isn't a gimmick.

I remember a Cadillac 'gimmick' back in 1965: heated seats! Competitors laughed at the idea for years.

Nobody thinks heated seats are a gimmick now.

brightness04 · January 2006

IMHO, price range is one factor; an even more significant factor is "vendor financing," regardless whether it is done through lease or loans from the manufacturer. It's a way for the manufacturer to book imaginary sales up front, only to back out of the books later. The practice is okay so long as unit sales are going up . . . the residual shortfall three years later can be papered over with increased sales at that time . . . however, eventually a down turn in economic cycle kills the Pyramid Scheme. The telecom equipment companies in 2000 was a classic case, putting their shares into a 80-90% nose dive.

Today, for MB and BMW, especially MB, lease subsidy seems to be the favored form of "vendor financing." The fact that you can not possibly get any lease deal from real banks at rates anywhere close to what the vendors are offering is indicative that the cars are being cleared through the market at much lower prices than the nominal "sale prices" in those leases.

brightness04 · January 2006

I had no idea that all this time your concept of driving excitement is parallel parking the old fashioned way! Wow! How much fun is parallel parking a 202" sedan the old fashioned way anyway? Why would anyone consider that part of driving excitement? Do you have a 4200lb car without power steering too? That would be really fun for parallel parking. Heck, even the steering wheel system with reduction gears is a pointless gizmo for the really hard core parkers; a tiller is much more fun . . . Not!

ljflx · January 2006

I know about 20 people that have these cars and not one doesn't lease. The whole way the lease deals are advertised tells you the skew is heavy on leasing. Lexus would rather lease because it is conservative on residuals and the cars are always worth a lot more at lease end, thus the company makes big profits on the next sale. BMW's whole marketing dynamics are lease driven as are MB's. Buying manufacturing equipment for a business is a totally different ballgame than buying cars for personal use. Car prices are also stratified entirely differently and the buyers are entirely different - consumers vs business. A very high percentage of successful people rather have cash on hand for current and future opportunities rather than put huge sums of money into assets that depreciate rapidly. In fact many successful people don't even have that type of liquidity around. Often it's tied up in investing opportunities or business ventures. When you write a $90K check for a car it's not costing you $90K. It's costing you $90K plus what you could have earned on the money in whatever opportunities existed - be they CD's, tax deferred annuities, deferring compensation, real estate, the stock market or a business venture. And of course in 3 years you'd be lucky to sell you're $90K asset for $50K.

ctsang · January 2006

How come the MB R class looks almost the same as the Pacifica? This is one of the MB class I won't buy since I don't want people to think I own a Chrysler.

brightness04 · January 2006

And since when is it a surprise to see the Toyota/Lexus connection when it comes to styling? The photos provided by Merc1 are more evidence. They should not be a surprise to anyone.

I can agree that the current Camry and current ES share many styling cues. However, the "evidence" shown by M regarding the rear ends of 07 Camry and LS460? They are only similar in the sense that they are both 3-box sedans without circular tail lights. That's about it. There are only so many elements in rear end design: rear light stack shape, trunk shape/proportion, license plate recess shape/proportion, chrome strip, position of center/high-mount brake light, antenna choice, bumper shape and outline, and where/how roofline meets the belt line. That's about it if you are not interested in turning your sedan into a wagon or hatchback. Not a single design element in that list are similar for 07 Camry and LS460!

On the other hand, if you look at the rear ends of E vs. Accord, triangular tail light assemblies, size and shape of center-mount brake lights, license plate recess and chrome strip, trunk lid shape etc. are all the same! The similarity between C and S needs no elaboration, and C is priced between Camry and ES, whereas S is priced both below and above LS depending on model.

tagman · January 2006

I agree that Honda has also included design elements from the German cars, as has Toyota/Lexus historically.

Intertesting that it is the German cars that they tend to copy. The biggest exception to that, however, was the way they copied the Chrysler minivan when it first set that market on fire. They did a brilliant job, too.

TagMan

ljflx · January 2006

Could be another hit. Looks like a poor mans Rolls to me, particularly the front end.

tagman · January 2006

If buyers love and use a feature it isn't a gimmick.

I like your perspective, but time will ultimately tell if park-assist really catches on. Certainly with the Toyota/Lexus marketers behind it, the odds are greatly increased.

I can just see the BMW driver finishing up a terrific drive, and then only to "auto-park" the "M" . . . it's schizophrenic . . . the very thought is making me sick. Can this happen?

TagMan

brightness04 · January 2006

I agree that Honda has also included design elements from the German cars, as has Toyota/Lexus historically.

Intertesting that it is the German cars that they tend to copy.

And Germans like to copy others in the drive train department . . . such as variable valve timing (Honda first), automatic transmission (GM first), CVT (Subaru first), supercharger (American patent), and even as we speak they are scrambling to "copy" hybrid (Toyota being the most successful leader in the field at this point).

The biggest exception to that, however, was the way they copied the Chrysler minivan when it first set that market on fire.

Not true at all. For over a decade after Chrysler's minivan introduction, both Honda and Toyota fielded very different animals from Caravan. The original Honda Odyssey had four conventional doors; Toyota Previa was probably the most unique minivan ever, with the super-charged engine inside the car behind the driver's seat. Caravan won the minivan game on size, and size is not a patentable idea nor is it original. The original Odyssey started the disappearing thir-row seat that virtually every minivan maker copies nowadays, and current Sienna took the segment to an entirely new luxurious dimension. MB R class is apparently copying the failure of the original Odyssey, with four conventional doors and small interior space. Apparently Germans are really bad at learning from others' mistakes . . . a giant step backwards from their brilliant chacellor von Bismark's utterance some 150 years ago: only fools learn from their own mistakes; smart people learn from others.

Can we just get off this "copy" nonsense? As Bismark so eloquently put it, learning from others is simply the smart thing to do.

sv7887 · January 2006

Are you kidding me?

What do you think iDrive is? That has got to be the biggest gimmick I have ever seen. MB and BMW's are filled with all sorts of useless gimmicks. Try Steer by Wire and Night Vision. Can you give me one good reason why this is needed? I still don't see the need to control my AC using a Joystick! If you think the Park Assist is a gimmick, then the Germans are chock full of them.

The only resemblance I see between the Camry and LS is that they are both low profile cars. The tailights and bumper have no resemblance. It's like saying the C Class and S Class are the same car. I don't see the BMW resemblance beyond the roof line. The new LS is closer to the IS than anything.

SV

tagman · January 2006

I could not agree with you more that "copying" is not necessarily a bad thing. I think the point that I have been making is that there is evidence of it, and it is an observable event that some do not seem to see, or do not want to acknowledge.

To point out that Lexus has recently shifted their cosshairs from Mercedes to BMW is more of an OBSERVATION, not a JUDGEMENT, and sometimes the observation is taken down the toilet, by interpretting it as an attack on Lexus.

After making the observation, I have offered my opinion, which is that Lexus is brilliant to have done so.

TagMan

tagman · January 2006

YES, I agree the Imperial concept is a hit just waiting to happen. Smart move by Chrysler to follow up on the 300's success like that.

brightness04 · January 2006

So one BMW dealership in suburban Detroit is representative of every BMW dealership in USA?

One dealership data is better than no dealership data at all. Frankly, I think the lease per centages are much higher on the coast than in the midwest heartland as people are more accustomed to leasing here. Out all the people that I know acquired MB and BMW in recent years, there are a couple dozen of them, not a single one bought; all leased. The leases simply are better deals than loan offers, even without getting into opportunity cost of money. Lease-end buy-out price re-negotiation has also become popular if one is interested in keeping the car.

Also I am very interested to know where you got the following information:

It's about as absurd as calling Maybach a $350k car when there is a $100k discount, and it's cross-shopped with a $170k Bentley by every would-be acquirer.

An add I saw had $100k discount for a brand new Maybach!

brightness04 · January 2006

Great we can agree that learning from the success of others is simply good business practice; all the better if one can improve on it (like Lexus is doing, IMHO).

IMHO, much of europhiles allegations "copying" observation is in the eyes of behold. For example, Lexus cars had rounded style lines from the very beginning, at a time MB and BMW were making boxes like the W140 with distincly 80's look, the orginal Lexus SC being the most curvacously stylish of them all. In subsequently years, all H.E.L.M cars started to look avant garde and curvacous. Is that transformation "copying" stlying cues from Lexus? I'm sure M will dig up some old 50's design as "real inspiration" but come on, they did not really defrost some 50's German designer like in the Austin Power movies. You don't need the librarian to dig up old designs when there's new cars from Lexus and later Audi staring right in your face with rounded edges and corners.

Then there are cases like AMG division learning from M marketing success, C and IS learning from 3 market success. Success breeds its own competition; that's how capitalistic markets work . . . and much to the advantage of consumers and the market place in general. Yet, some eurofans would take the opportunity to trash IS as "copying" yet at the same time coming up with all sorts of excuses for AMG. There is no objective or consistent standards for that.

tagman · January 2006

The leases simply are better deals than loan offers,

Not necessarily. My take on that is that is that the single true advantage leasing has to offer is simply "cash flow".

Without leasing, even the "successful" buyer would be facing large payments that would prevent many delivered units. In my opinion, leasing is generally (not always)not as fiscally sound as a purchase, but there is often no other way for many so-called successful folks to get into a high-end vehicle. That's why, as I believe Merc1 may have previously pointed out, the more expensive the vehicle, the more you see leasing.

TagMan

syswei · January 2006

To point out that Lexus has recently shifted their cosshairs from Mercedes to BMW is more of an OBSERVATION, not a JUDGEMENT

Actually I think that Lexus has publicly stated something to the effect that BMW is now in its crosshairs. That makes business sense because in the U.S. at least, BMW has a larger market share than MB. Why try to wrest market share from the number 4 guy when you can go after number 2?

I think what it means is that they want to appeal to younger buyers. Hence the effort to out-do BMW with the new engine...and indeed the Lexus 4.6 would appear to outperform the BMW 4.8. Driving dynamics? We'll have to see. I don't think Lexus will go "all the way" from an enthusiast's point of view, because the brand still has to stand for "greater luxury", else they turn off their core market. So my guess is that in the "fun to drive" area, Lexus will narrow the gap with BMW but not meet/exceed, at least with its core models. This seems to have happened with both the IS and GS. In other words, the LS will be faster in a straight line than the 750, and perhaps offer better braking, but may well lose out in the eye of the sport-minded segment of the market.

Now, does Lexus putting the cross-hairs on BMW also translate into copying BMW styling? That's a matter of opinion. Yes when you view the LS460 against the 750 from ONE angle, and IGNORE everything except the outline/profile, there is some similarity. Indeed that's the way I originally looked at it. But imho the borrowing, if any, is rather slight overall...I don't think many people will confuse the two cars when they see them on the street.

tagman · January 2006

Our agreement is simply that copying can be a good thing, but IMO, Lexus to a large degree ESTABLISHED itself through the process. I doubt you will agree with that.

TagMan

tagman · January 2006

They probably reshaped the clay enough to distinguish it, but folks taking a quick glance might also confuse it with another Lexus or Toyota model.

brightness04 · January 2006

I don't want to get too much into lease vs. buying, lest we raise the ire of hosts (and justifiably so). What you said about lease vs. loan is correct in a conventional case dealing with third-party banks. The case is quite different with vendor financing. Lease with inflated residual can be a very effective way of cooking books on sales revenue. What happens is that, some manufacturers often offer lease incentives and money factors that are simply not available on loans. For example, there was a $3k-7k dealer incentive on leasing E class in December; much of it was simply not available if you buy. Then there's the lease-end buy-out price re-negotiation, which is simply not an option if you bought the car to begin with. This is not a general comment on lease vs. buying; it only happens when certain manufacturers have very inflated residual.

For real life example, when I got my Saab 9-5 in 2001, there was a $5000 lease incentive and a $5500 purchase incentive . . . obviously the lease incentive was much stronger since the $5k is to offset roughly half the car's value depreciated in 3 years whereas the $5.5k would have to offset the entire car's price (it would take a $10k purchase incentive to make the two deals a wash). On top of that, lease money factor was near-zero whereas getting a near-zero loan from the manufacturer would forfeit the $5.5k purchase incentive (either cash or low loan finance but not both), not that I would borrow anyway. Furthermore, I knew that the residual was inflated, so I fully planned on re-negotiating my buy-out in three years. Indeed, I got another $1700 off buy-out at lease end ($500 had to offset the acquisition fee at the beginning), so effectively I got $6200 off invoice price ($5k + 1.7k - 0.5k) through leasing vs maxmum of $5.5k through buying, plus letting my $32k sitting in a bank for three years earning interest amounting to another couple thousand $'s (and those were the lowest interest years). Yes, I did/do have that much cash and more sitting in my bank at all time, so cash flow was/is quite irrelevent. Just to bring it somewhat related to H.E.L.M, the car had an MSRP of $43k, and was the very top end of Saab at the time.

I know a number of people doing exactly the same thing on their BMW and MB's right now. As you can see, even lease subsidy and inflated MSRP with massive discount through lease are not new ideas; MB and BMW are "copying" from GMAC/Saab Financial on those shenanigans.

Like I said before, there is no fast rules about lease vs. buying nowadays with the manufacturers doing the vendor financing. It's strictly case by case basis. You have to dig through the numbers for yourself, and most people getting cars in this range can do the math and follow the money; that's why most people lease not buy new MB and BMW's nowadays.

brightness04 · January 2006

Our agreement is simply that copying can be a good thing, but IMO, Lexus to a large degree ESTABLISHED itself through the process. I doubt you will agree with that.

Considering that Lexus did not exist before 1989, it had to do something it never did before (the classic existential question) and also considering there was a luxury car market already someone had to have done some of what Lexus was about to be doing (another classic self-evident existentialist statement). Whether that is "copying" is quite in the eyes of the behold. If you think fielding a luxury-looking car that share common themes of luxury cars since 1906 Rolls Royce Silver Ghost, (slab side, broad shoulder, high belt line)is "copying" then one has to conclude that all the existing players in 1989 subsequently copied from Lexus for those rounded lines and corners in their styling exercises.

tagman · January 2006

Considering that Lexus did not exist before 1989, it had to do something it never did before (the classic existential question) and also considering there was a luxury car market already someone had to have done some of what Lexus was about to be doing (another classic existential philosophical issue). Whether that is "copying" is quite in the eyes of the behold.

No "classical existential philosophical" blah blah here . . .

simply put . . . YES, IMHO, it was (and IS) copying. No judgement attached.

TagMan

brightness04 · January 2006

No "classical existential philosophical" blah blah here . . . simply put . . . YES, IMHO, it was (and IS) copying. No judgement attached.

Then MB, BMW and Audi all copied rounded corners, edges and the general modernized look from Lexus; they were all squarish three-boxes before Lexus showed up in 1989-92 with curves. No judgement attached.

pat · January 2006

for those who want to engage in the copying argument to use the Search This Discussion feature and find out that that particular, um, nuance of this discussion has been beaten way, way more to death already ... several times over ...

tagman · January 2006

agree

tagman · January 2006

I am impressed, although not surprised, that Lexus has decided to offer a long wheelbase version of the LS. Lexus needed to do this, given the wheelbase on the new Mercedes S-Class, the long wheelbase on the BMW 760Li, and, of less competitive importance, the long wheelbase on the Jaguar XJL and XJ VandenPlas.

DVD video option in the headrests? Center console? Roof? Or is it the new "Lexus 3-D holographic projection system"?

TagMan

hpowders · January 2006

Okay. Name one thing on BMW's that diminishes the driving experience.
IDrive? Nobody I know uses it when driving. Its purpose is to set it and forget it.
I don't have anything on my 545 that interferes with the driving experience except, perhaps, the cruise control, which I have never used and have always felt should be banned from all vehicles because it encourages dangerous lack of attention to the road.

When BMW gives you stability control, at least it can be turned off if you want to be daring and experience the thrill of a lifetime. Not so with Lexus.

hpowders · January 2006

How is IDrive a gimmick? It's a mini-computer which lets you customize the car in so many wonderful ways rather than have it pre-set at the dealer who really doesn't want to be bothered. You don't use it when driving although when stopped at a light, with one click of the knob, you can find out your up to the second mpg.

Have you ever driven a BMW with IDrive and actually set some vehicle functions with it or are you doing what so many posters around here do and just regurgitate stuff you have read somewhere?

brightness04 · January 2006

I think the DVD displays are on the back side of the front head rests, for the benefit of the rear passengers, just like in airline seats . . . and those of Rolls and Maybach.

Holographic projection directly into the brain of driver via EM trasmission would be a neat trick ;-)

brightness04 · January 2006

Personally I like iDrive, in the same way that I enjoy all the electronic "gimmicks" in the Lexus. None of them have anything to do with driving dynamics, but all add to the complete experience . . . something manu eurofans seem to fail to comprehend when they rail against Lexus on "electronic gimmicks."

syswei · January 2006

If an electronic innovation is by a German company, it is a great thing. If an electronic innovation is by a Japanese company, it is a gimmick.

hpowders · January 2006

"BMW is now in its cross hairs."

Uh...wasn't BMW in Lexus' cross hairs when the much unlamented 2006 GS came out which was spoken of at the time as the "5 killer?"

If BMW is quaking in its boots regarding Lexus, it's cause is most likely acute laughter rather than fear.

Lexus is playing catchup, not BMW.

syswei · January 2006

In this country, Lexus is indeed playing catchup to BMW in "driving dynamics" and to some extent in prestige.

But BMW is playing catchup in unit sales, profitability, reliability, hybrid technology, SUVs, and now even internal combustion engines (which really ought to be a BMW forte, don't you think?...tell me you're not impressed with the engine in the LS460!).

brightness04 · January 2006

Okay. Name one thing on BMW's that diminishes the driving experience.
IDrive? Nobody I know uses it when driving. Its purpose is to set it and forget it.

Actually it was designed to be accessible while driving without having to look for the myriads of buttons that would be there to control all the functions. That's why the main control is a joystick, which was thought to be easy to use while driving, being right at the finger tip when you reach for it. What the UI consultant from Microsoft failed to realize was that in a moving environment, the system feedback for confirming user input would distract untrained driver from the road. With a few hundred to a few thousand hours of training, joystick plus HUD can be the fastest user interface, as evidenced in attack helicopters . . . unfortuantely most owners of private cars don't have the time for the training. In the future, there probably needs to be a standardization of ways to use some of the features, perhaps a standard plug to allow plug-in of your favorite control computer and joystick so the owner does not have to retrain every three years as they move from brand to brand . . . then again who knows, carmakers historically had a penchant for idiosyncracy, just to lock in the consumer if nothing else.

syswei · January 2006

OK, let's say you're driving from wherever you live to a city 200 miles away. An hour into the trip you scan for radio stations and find 8 that you like. You might want to come back to each one so you want to set each as a preset. How many iDrive mouse manipulations to set ONE radio station as a preset? Times EIGHT. Then when you have move out of range of the stations....you do it again. And you do it again when you arrive at your destination for the weekend or whatever. And again on the way back. And again when you get home. How many mouse manipulations total?

Is that progress or what?

hpowders · January 2006

Hybrid technology is not what BMW's are about. We can leave that to the Hondas and Toyotas.
I myself am quite disappointed that BMW got involved with SUV's.
The hypocrites put their profit motive over their company's credo.
That's why I have said many times that I am not married to BMW's.
If something better comes along that is not outrageously priced, I'm in.
I want the new LS to be a big improvement in its driving dynamics because then I can add it to my list of future possibilities.
I do wish that it didn't look so much like the new Camry from the rear.

syswei · January 2006

At least with the auto-parking "gimmick" you have the option of parking the old-fashionned ("fun" to an enthusiast) way.

With "friendly" iDrive there is only one way to set a radio preset...and that's with how many mouse manipulations? Vs. pressing ONE button on any normal sort of radio.

hpowders · January 2006

Bring lots of CD's or subscribe to satellite radio.
Is there anyone out there who is actually listening to commercial radio anymore with its endless commercials and boring constantly being repeated music?

Sort of reminds me of the Spike TV 3 Stooges Hour. They give you 5 minutes of Curley and then 10 minutes of commercials. How do they get away with this?

lexusi · January 2006

Hi,
Concerning the movies in the lexus.jp, i want to see the movies without interuption and becoz my DSL keeps lagging i cant, please anyone can help me if their is a way to download the movies so i can watch them offline?? any programme i can use? i tried almost everything in the net, from offline explorer, flashget and so, but no use!

anyone have the movies? is it posted anywhere in the net? can i download them? please someone reply me,

thanx

Lexusi

pat · January 2006

This isn't the right place - try one of the dedicated Lexus discussions, whichever is the right one for what you are trying to view.

brightness04 · January 2006

Well, BMW got into the SUV business for the same reason why it restarted the car business after WWII --- its credo is making money. Before the cliched motto, BMW was a builder of motorcycles and morbidly unreliable aircraft engines (where do you think the propeller in marque came from?). . . if their aircraft engines were reliable, we could all be speaking German now due to [non-permissible content removed] victory in WWII.

Hybrid is probably something BMW will have to be good at too in the near future, just like electronic fuel injection 20 years ago. That's where the "motor" is headed in the auto industry.

lexusi · January 2006

I post it earlier that day but no one answered me, anyway i posted it there again.

oac · January 2006

Howard, I am just curious. How much driving do you do every day ? What kind of roads are you most on ? How much of that driving dynamics of your 545 do you use daily or frequently ? Do you even bother to turn on your radio/CD just in case it deters you from your driving pleasure ? Just curious.... I mean, if *driving* is the name of owning a car, why would BMW even bother to put in a radio, AC, Nav, CD changer, etc.... All you need is a steering wheel, 4 sets of tires/rims, brakes, chassis and suspension, a gas tank, and other little stuff like wipers, roll-up windows, power steering, etc... You know, nothing should detract a Bimmer driver from the act of actually driving.... Oh, I wonder if your 545 has slushbox or a MT...

syswei · January 2006

Now up here, click "archived videos" to see it.

hpowders · January 2006

I rarely turn on the radio or bring CD's with me. I am always amazed by how anybody can be so into audio speakers in a car. Never use a cell phone in the car.
I guess I am kind of a purist. The only concession I made is getting the steptronic transmission for its practicality. Never use cruise control.
If the car had no radio or bluetooth, wouldn't bother me in the least.
If you asked me questions about the interior, I would probably have to sit in the car to refresh my memory.
None of that is important to me.
It really is all about the driving

The only time in recent memory I used the radio, my wife was with me and she was talking to me about something expensive she wanted me to buy her.

tagman · January 2006

What I'm getting from all this is that there seems to be an appreciation by some for advanced features (some of which may or may not be considered gimmicks, depending upon who you talk to) but the problem, as I see it, is that sometimes these advancements come at the expense of simplicity or even downright common sense. The owners manuals have gotten very thick on some cars.

Personally, I think advancements should NEVER come at the sacrifice of simplicity. The electronics that are invading our vehicles can be great and wonderful, but need to be "user-friendly", and hopefully, where it makes sense, allow the driver to turn a feature OFF (if appropriate) when desired by the driver.

The bells and whistles might have an impressive appearance like the inside cockpit of a Boeing 777, but isn't it important to hold a steering wheel instead of pushing a million buttons everywhere?

The current voice-command is impressive to me, and I believe it represents the likely answer to much of this problem. Instead of negotiating through many manual steps to achieve a function, the voice-command goes straight to the matter and gets it done. Theoretically, the voice command should set the radio station with one verbal instruction, as well as all other functions that a driver needs to set.

It needs to expand to the rear passengers as well, as they now have complicated rear entertainment systems and advanced climate controls and seat positions and even a massager. Just tell the car what you want and let it happen.

There lies the last hope . . . voice command.

or...

leave all the electronics out and actually drive the old-fashioned way, which some here will hail.

My prediction? More advanced electronics will come and there is no stopping it. The solution will ultimately be more advanced voice command than is currently seen in any vehicle.

TagMan

ljflx · January 2006

We all have different needs. I can't live without bluetooth anymore. It frees me to drive and talk at the same time. My car is - when I'm busy - a travelling office and certain items - bluetooth for sure - are must haves. Some of the best decisions I've made in business recently were made while cruing at 75mph utilizing bluetooth. A great Nav system is another as it has helped me make key appointments in horrible traffic jams and, as well once got me thru backroads in NC due to a monster accident that caused a total standstill for hours on I-95. There are things that are meaningless and there are things I can't due without.

As for the great entertainment systems - can't live without them. I'm a music lover and listening to great music on a great concert hall sound system is completely additive to driving for me.

ljflx · January 2006

Syswei - I missed the inclusion of real-time traffic updates on the nav system the other day.

hpowders · January 2006

I'm a music lover too. But the car, in my opinion, is not where I want to be concentrating on whether the second oboe in a Brahms' symphony mistakenly played a C# instead of a C natural.
Music can be a distractive drug and I prefer to stay as alert as I can with all those maniacs on the road.
I do keep a cell phone in the car for emergencies in case I ever get stuck. Fortunately, I have never had to use it. Even this is now superflous as I just press one button above my head and I would hear a voice from BMW Central in the car telling me help is on the way (BMW Assist) which even I have to admit is pretty neat!

Hey, everybody's different. TGFT!

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