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High End Luxury Cars

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Comments

  • sysweisyswei Member Posts: 1,804
    Not that interesting, though I did note that they said something to the effect that it would be the "best handling Lexus ever", as opposed to "best handling HEL sedan"....consistent with my prediction a few posts ago that they wouldn't actually try to match or exceed BMW "driving dynamics".

    So, germancarfans, don't tell us 9 months from now that Lexus has "failed" a goal to match BMW in driving dynamics...it looks like they aren't trying to achieve that, per se.
  • brightness04brightness04 Member Posts: 3,148
    Rest assured, a person driving a 5 series with a slushbox is not a purist. We all have to make real life compromises despite what some purist decrying slushboxes or midsize family sedans are for, well, you know what ;-)
  • brightness04brightness04 Member Posts: 3,148
    or...

    leave all the electronics out and actually drive the old-fashioned way, which some here will hail.


    H.E.L.M has never been about leaving things out, be it electronics, or leather, or wood. Leather and wood have never been good for driving pleasure either.
  • brightness04brightness04 Member Posts: 3,148
    For many people, driving is the only time they/we get for listening to music. If Brahms is all you listen to, most second-rate stereo with no base or high treble will do just fine.
  • ideleidele Member Posts: 200
    Given my experience with the RX400h,the handling on the LS hybrids will be top notch. The reason is that batteries in the rear provide balanced weight distribution and the center of gravity is considerably lower. Let me deviate and comment on all the horsepower claims. An example is the new V10 used in upcoming Audis. The peak horsepower is achieved at 7000 rpm. High revving engines are not going to last very long and require meticulous maintenance. The same remarks apply to the BMW powerplant used in the M5. One of the best features of the Toyota/Lexus hybrid synergy system (which is unique according to the UN definition of "hybrid") is the excellent midrange acceleration achieved at nore moderate rpms. The engine in the LS460h has dual injection, port and direct, which allows higher compression ratios and thus lower fuel consumption. Moreover the 8 speed transmission which appears to have a duel range, power and cruise, should also yield fuel efficiency. It has taken a huge investment by Toyota to achieve this and, unfortunately, no other
    manufacturer could afford to make such an investment; hence all the bad-mouthing by various auto executives.
  • sysweisyswei Member Posts: 1,804
    Keep in mind, some of you germancarfan "it's all about driving" folk, this forum is supposed to be about High End Luxury. Not race cars. Race cars don't have A/C, or radios, or what not, because it would add weight and sap performance. But when it comes to HELM, aren't we supposed to get some Luxury? An auto-park feature fits in that mold. And you don't have to use it if you don't want to.
  • oacoac Member Posts: 1,594
    True
    Even more important is that MAJORITY of all BMW sport sedans are equipped with slushboxes. Last time I was at a BMW dealership and specifically requested for a 330i/6MT. The sales guy looked around and could not find one. Apologetically, sheepishly, he steered me to a 330i loaded with everything, SP, PP, Nav, Sat radio, iDrive. Well I did drive it, and it drove real nice. Very tight steering, very much controlled, the ride was firm but very tolerable. The exhaust note intoxicating, and the speed quite exhilirating for a 255hp I6. Very very nice car. But the style left a lot to be desired... and the spartan interior, even more so. Not that Howard even notice anything about his car ... He just drives the darn car !

    Which supports my theory: German car fans simply drive from point A to point B.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    But HOW we get there!
    Ohhh yeah!!
  • oacoac Member Posts: 1,594
    Well said...

    When the anti-Lexus crowd started to bad mouth the new LS460 I knew they were scared. The Bangled 7 flopped big (redo after only 2 yrs), no one cares much about the A8 here in NA (pitiful for such a nice looking car), Jag is in free fall (perception trumping reality), and only the S-class is left to compete against Lexus. In comparing against the S-class, we will leave out the S450 cos Lexus has shown they are going after the 550 with the 380/370 combo powerplant in the LS460.

    MB/AMG, with all their prowress in engine refinement and tuning, could only muster 382HP out of a 5.5L powerplant. Lexus did that with a 4.6L motor. Advantage Lexus.

    The new S550 has a 1500-song capacity disk. The new LS460 has 4,000-capacity song. Advantage Lexus

    The new S550 tops out at 7000rpm, the new LS460 tops out at 8000rpm. Advantage Lexus.

    The new S550 has a 7-speed cog, the new LS460 has an 8-speed. Advantage Lexus

    Auto park in the LS460. None on the S550. Advantage Lexus

    Get the point.... And this is before release. Lexus is deliberately withholding info until March, a month before the S goes on sale, so that MB cannot scoop them, and so they can take the thunder out of the S release. What a juggernaut Lexus is going to be against the Germans.

    And 12 months later, MY2008, comes the LS600h with like 470hp/500Ibft, and a fuel economy of a V6. LWB, hybrid, AWD, the features list will be long indeed... Priced in the $90K range. What a car that will be...

    Little wonder German car fans are so upset and frantic in their search for dissing the LS460. The car is a beauty, and is primed for success. I am sold... I will put my $$$ where my mouth is.
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    OAC - My laptop crashed on me over the holidays and though I had just about everything backed up the one thing I didn't was my address book. It's nearly duplicated on a desktop I have but the desktop doesn't have your address. When you have a chance drop me an e-mail as I wanted to see how the home search is going and get your address back into my home PC's.
  • brightness04brightness04 Member Posts: 3,148
    Which supports my theory: German car fans simply drive from point A to point B.

    Exactly. Slushboxes and midsize family sedans are not exactly the stuff for purists . . . yet they are eminently practical for everyday living, just like automatic parallel parking for city dwellers.

    For the wannabe purists, what do you guys think of the auto-adjusting power seat side-bolsters on the CLS?? The ones that move in on you when you turn the car. That's got to be one of weirdest electronic gimmicks in recent years. Given the (lack of) reliability of powered seat sections in those cars (and seats only get adjusted infrequently unlike the high frequency of cars taking tight turns). . . it's disconcerting the first time it moves in on you . . . wouldn't it be even more scary when it suddenly fails on the occasion you count on it to move in and bolster you but no movement happens?
  • oacoac Member Posts: 1,594
    Check your e-mail....
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Which supports my theory: German car fans simply drive from point A to point B.

    oac, are you trying to start a fire? For goodness sakes, you are basically saying that German car fans should drive nothing more than an original VW Beetle!

    Personally, I would be much better described as a Eurocar fan who also will quietly confess (dare I say it) to liking some of the rice-burners.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    I am sold... I will put my $$$ where my mouth is.

    You've placed a deposit and are on a list? OK, if so, which wheelbase? If it were me, it would be the long wheelbase, no doubt about it.
  • oacoac Member Posts: 1,594
    I do keep a cell phone in the car for emergencies in case I ever get stuck. Fortunately, I have never had to use it. Even this is now superflous as I just press one button above my head and I would hear a voice from BMW Central in the car telling me help is on the way (BMW Assist) which even I have to admit is pretty neat!

    Hehehe, I cannot stop giggling on this quote, Howard. Its a classic.... You don't really need a phone in the car, but will use a BMW nanny, eh ? I can just see Dewey now, gnashing his teeth at the BMW Assist *nanny* ... :P :P Classic.
  • oacoac Member Posts: 1,594
    You've placed a deposit and are on a list? OK, if so, which wheelbase? If it were me, it would be the long wheelbase, no doubt about it.

    Not yet. My plan is to buy one either by Dec '06 or wait into the new year '07 when the frenzy slows... At least I hope the frenzy slows within 6 months of release. And my choice will be the LS460 SWB w/Nav/BT/ML/Auto Park, and a few more goodies. I am looking for what $65K gets me ($10K more than an '06 of similar features). The LWB loaded may be in the mid-70K range or higher. It'll remain cheaper than the S550, which should bode well for buyers and for Lexus. And bad news for MB if you can get a loaded LS460 LWB for about the price of an S450...
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    You stated that the Solara looks like the SC430. Did that hamper their sales in anyway ? Nope.

    The issue wasn't sales. Why is that everything reverts back to sales? The point was that you and other Lexusfans have constantly harped about MB/BMW/Audi making all of their cars look alike, yet when Lexus makes their cars look like a Toyota it is glossed over the same old tired "but it sells" angle. The denial about the LS460 and Camry is quite interesting. Anyone that isn't looking through Lexus-colored glasses can see the similarities. Now I supposed since the LS,IS and GS all look alike, but done in different sizes, the MB/Audi/BMW/Jaguar way of doing things (as they have for years and years) is ok now right?

    Like I have said years ago, you dislike for Mercedes and all the hype you continually try to push about them will have any affect on Mercedes either. You're asking me how far would I go to discredit Toyota/Lexus? This from the same poster that continually will hype anything negative about Mercedes into some great big tragedy. Ask youself that very same quesiton. Going to such lengths as to post bogus stories about technology failing (when it didn't) and preaching gloom and doom every Jan/Feb when sales for MB and others (including Lexus) drop, is to me a person that will go to great lengths to not only discredit MB, but themselves also.

    Why is the LS430 priced cheaper than the S430/S500 ? Could it bcos the LS is produced more efficiently hence at a cost that still permits a large profit margin ? And the converse is true for the S-class !!! Do you, Merc1, know which car has a higher profit margin - the cheaper LS or the more expensive S-class ? If you can answer that, you would have solved the riddle of the pricing difference....

    Why is that everytime this comes up we have to go back to why the LS430 costs less? I don't have an issue with why or disagree with you about why it costs less. Toyota runs a more streamlined/efficient production process, yes we all know this. I have admitted this time and time ago. However the public doesn't care squat about that when they go to buy a car, and you're dreaming if think a price difference like that between the LS430 and its MB/BMW competition doesn't make a difference to some buyers some of the time.

    Finally, I read the Feb '06 MT comparo for the 330i, C350, and IS350. Ranking was 330, IS350, C350. MB was last of 3. But more importantly, the IS350 as-tested price was $2K HIGHER than the 330i, and $5K HIGHER than the C350. Is Lexus a cheaper alternative to the Germans ???

    Who said that Lexus is always the cheaper priced alternative? Again, reaching. The IS is a brand new model (and a neat little car too btw) and Lexus apparently feels like they don't have to undercut that particular segment on price anymore.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    I have a measurement device here that says the more Merc1 disses the car the more it bothers him. In his mind the LS has to copy something so now we have a 202" replica of a 189" car. Sure.

    The fact that Lexus could make all three of their cars LS/GS/IS look more or less alike proves that this is possible regardless of length.

    Did any of us try to trash the S-class the way he is trying to trash the LS460. We said simply it's a falloff in design from the current car due to needless and senseless wheel arches. Something he probably agrees with. Take away those silly arches and the bangled trunk and the silhoueete of that car is still beautiful.

    Oh yes! It looks "pregnant", "they won't sell any", "they better lower the price by 20K" and on and on. The car took jeers from this board and on the 2007 LS board for sure. Yes, for the record I don't like the rear-wheel arches, I'll give you that. BTW, the "trunk" is from the Maybach, not Mr. Bangle's design shop.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Actually, I seem to recall that Merc1 said he liked the styling (of the 07 LS) but would have to see more. I also believed he said he didn't like the fender flaring on the 07 S. I've been wrong before, though.

    Actually I don't have a problem with the 2007 LS overall. Sure it looks a little unbalanced in LS460 "L" size, but overall the car is a huge improvement over the previous barn on wheels. The problem with the Lexusfans is that they're not able to stay true to anything. One minute it is a big sin for MB and others to give their cars the same look, yet when Lexus does it you get the "sales" angle. Then you have the "a luxury car should look unique" theory that was passed around when the S-Class broke cover, yet they can't admit the LS460 has a lot similarity to the new Camry. Before when the SC430 and Solara comparo came up they got all quiet and couldn't say anything because the pics were so obvious, but now they're just dismissing the notion of the LS looking like a Camry. It seems to me that if I can admit that the S-Class' wheelarches are from numerous cars they should be able to admit the truth about the LS460. They can't because this is their most important car.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    How come the MB R class looks almost the same as the Pacifica? This is one of the MB class I won't buy since I don't want people to think I own a Chrysler.

    Not sure, maybe because they're so similar in concept. Not buying one is certainly your right. I didn't think you'd consider anything from Mercedes?

    M
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    MB and BMW's are filled with all sorts of useless gimmicks. Try Steer by Wire and Night Vision

    I didn't know Mercedes had "Steer by Wire"! Thats news to me. Which model would that be?

    M
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    MB/AMG, with all their prowress in engine refinement and tuning, could only muster 382HP out of a 5.5L powerplant. Lexus did that with a 4.6L motor. Advantage Lexus.

    For the time being yeah, you're right advantage Lexus.

    The new S550 has a 1500-song capacity disk. The new LS460 has 4,000-capacity song. Advantage Lexus

    Whooptie do, guess that is a deal breaker. Pluhlease.

    The new S550 tops out at 7000rpm, the new LS460 tops out at 8000rpm. Advantage Lexus.

    Now if you can tell me what that advantage is I'll be truly impressed. You want a luxury car engine to rev to 8000 rpm? Please give us the technical details as to why this is an "advantage".

    The new S550 has a 7-speed cog, the new LS460 has an 8-speed. Advantage Lexus

    Yes, this is correct if the projected MPG numbers hold up in the real world. The problem I have here OAC is that when Mercedes upped the class with a 7-Speed all the Lexusfans did was say it was a meaningless innovation and was no advancement at all, yet the 7-speed has proven itself over and over, just like I'm sure Lexus' 8-speed will do.

    Auto park in the LS460. None on the S550. Advantage Lexus

    Advantage to who? Those who can't park a car? For people who love this type of thing I guess this will be a deal maker right?

    Get the point.... And this is before release. Lexus is deliberately withholding info until March, a month before the S goes on sale, so that MB cannot scoop them, and so they can take the thunder out of the S release. What a juggernaut Lexus is going to be against the Germans.

    Wrong, wrong and wrong. The S-Class goes on sale in Feb here in the U.S and has been on sale since Sept in Europe. If anyone waited to see what the other was going to do it was Lexus. They've had 5-6 months to study the S-Class and up it in areas like that hard drive and what not. Lexus is the one that waits to see what Mercedes is going to do. Not even you can deny that.

    And 12 months later, MY2008, comes the LS600h with like 470hp/500Ibft, and a fuel economy of a V6. LWB, hybrid, AWD, the features list will be long indeed... Priced in the $90K range. What a car that will be...

    All speculation unless you have the info on this?

    M
  • oacoac Member Posts: 1,594
    Merc1, you stated this:

    "...Now I supposed since the LS,IS and GS all look alike, but done in different sizes...

    Let's put these to test here:

    IS350
    image

    GS300
    image

    LS460
    image

    Must be hard to differentiate these cars from each other, eh ? Well, what about the MB C/E/S ???? Wanna see how they look, compared to the Lexus family look ???
  • baller4ever85baller4ever85 Member Posts: 14
    how much will do you think a loaded ls460-l will cost?? i'm thinkin about getting that or the s450 in the spring but right now i think the lexus has the advantage value wise.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    I remember the Lexus talk about the SC 430, and how it was the end of the Mercedes SL. But, what REALLY happened?

    My point here is that the new LS is likely to succeed, but don't take so much for granted. The styling is very nice, but is it drop-dead gorgeous, and does it have staying power? Or will the similar and familiar Lexus look start to get boring over time?

    As far as the S-Class goes, I have said from the beginning that the wheel well arches do not bother me, and, in fact, are looking better and better with time. They are going to be a distinctive look that may very well set a new styling trend in the industry. Lexus fans . . . do not be so over-confident. I agree the LS is poised for success, but I do NOT agree it will cause the undoing of the S-Class in ANY way. This new S-Class is going to be a hit, and I am on record as saying such.

    You all know that I have expressed that I believe that Lexus has BMW in its crosshairs. I'm more concerned that the impact to the market made by the LS will be felt more by BMW this time around.

    TagMan
  • oacoac Member Posts: 1,594
    A-class
    image

    E-class
    image

    SLK
    image

    C-class
    image

    S-class
    image

    Leaves no doubt, does it ?
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Gorgeous, till the end of time . . . every blessed one of them (except the A).
    TagMan
  • garyh1garyh1 Member Posts: 394
    Just hearing the name Chrysler Imperial brings back an early childhood memory. One night (somewhere around 1960) my grandfather came over with his new Imperial. He took us for a ride over the bumpiest road in the area to demonstrate the "TorsionAire" (sp?) suspension system. Talk about floating on air!
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    You mean to tell me that those cars don't all have the same look in different sizes? I didn't think that even you were that biased! Those cars looks more alike than they do different just like any family of MB/BMW/Audi/Jaguar cars do. Lexus is no different now, yet you're going to try and say they are? OK.

    Lexus does the same thing as MB, BMW, Audi and Jaguar. After all the talk and put downs about the S looking like a C and a X-Type looking like alike, looking at the LS and IS puts an end to that nonsense.

    BTW, I'm still waiting on what the "advantage" is for Lexus having a V8 that can rev to 8000 rpm? Due tell!

    M
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    We can debate all day long as to whether Idrive, Park Assist and what not are "gimmicks". In the end it really doesn't matter because this is where the luxury car is going and more importantly it keeps luxury cars above "regular" cars. I don't consider it "copying" when one company adds a feature to one of their cars that a competitor already had - that is common sense.

    My problem is that Lexus didn't have to try and make their flagship car LOOK like the competiton all these years up until now. That is truthfully my only issue. Car companys do take ideas and technology from each other all the time that is nothing new, but they don't have to make their cars look like the competition too. Mercedes, BMW, Jaguar, Audi, Bentley, Cadillac, Infiniti, and now Lexus have their own styling identies for the most part and that is great IMO. It is about time Lexus quit making their flagship car (their greatest car) in the mold of its greatest competitor with regards to styling - not technology.

    I honestly don't know why Lexus doesn't play up their Japanese heritage more often. A European car company would never do a brochure for one of their cas like Lexus did for the IS. Things like that cheapen the brand in the eyes of people that care about such things.

    When not in defense mode I can freely admit I'm just as intrigued as any Lexus fan at the thought of 380hp and 8 foward gears! Mercedes did the same thing back in 1989 with the world's first 5-speed automatic and again in 2003 with the first 7-speed automatic - leapfrogging via innovation and technology is the name of the game in the luxury car business. This practice has nothing to do with styling, again which was my only big issue with Lexus.

    Even when Germancarfans (or at least I do) admit the obvious Lexusfans can't admit the obvious like; Lexus changing their styling to a singular theme across their lineup - it makes the debates pointless and endless.

    M
  • brightness04brightness04 Member Posts: 3,148
    IMHO, much of the cliche about the original Lexus LS was made to look like existin MB model was due to the fact that was the generic luxury car look, since circa 1906: slab side, broad shoulder and high belt line. MB just happened to dominate the luxury car market around 1989, immediately before the launch of LS400. If you look at the pictures of 1989 LS400 and 1989 420SE side by side, the difference is very pronounced: different hood proportions, different grill size/shape and different head light configurations etc. In fact, the lines on the 1989 420SE is much more dated and musty 80's compared to the more cleanly flowing lines of 1989 LS400. It would not even be a stretch to argue that MB, BMW and Audi all took ideas from those flowing rounded lines from the original LS400 in their own susequent designs. For what it's worth, when BMW entered the car market and subsequently putting together a marketting niche called "sport sedan," it "copied" heavily from the styles of other brands with sporty heritages, such as Jaguar, Bentley and Pontiac, for those double-kidney grills and quad headlights, as well as the long hood. Those are just what people expected of sporting machines, like the slab side, broad shoulder and high belt-lines that were expected of luxury cars when Lexus introduced the original LS420.

    There are two obvious reasons why Lexus does not play up its Japanese heritage:
    (1) Lexus is a brand with only a decade and half of history; they are trying to sell a Lexus not a Toyota.
    (2) IS is being marketted in Japan this time. In the land of parkers not drivers (one statistic says that if all Japanese car owners tried to drive at the same time, there would not be enough road space for them all!), European cars are extremely popular . . . plus the previous generation IS was a stripped down hopped up Toyota for the youth in their home market. Not exactly a bragging point.

    One point well take: while Lexus has the first 8sp automatic, MB had the first 5sp and 7sp . . . GM had the very first automatic, period; and for a long time was the only one who knew how to build a good automatic . . . hence the Cadillac domination of the free world HELM during the first three decades after WWII.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    image

    image
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Thats pretty weak Lexusguy, still grasping at straws here. Even I'll admit that the GL isn't the most distincive Benz around. Still handsome though. All of this because I pointed out the LS460/Camry connection?

    M
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    All of that about 1906 goes back a way bit before my time. Lexus' original LS400 was rounder than the German iron of the day for sure, but the overall presentation made you think "Mercedes". Sure the individual details were different, but the whole thing screamed Mercedes overall. Thats why Lexus got the copy rep from not only the press, but buyers alike. The 2001 LS430 only made it worse. Now that they've adopted a singular theme across their lineup the Mercedes look-a-like era has ended with this new LS. Now the diehard BMW fans may have something to say about it, but that isn't my debate.

    It would be way more than a stretch to say that Audi/BMW/MB got anything from Lexus in the way of styling. Audi in particular went aero in the 80's and changed car design long before Lexus even came to market. Either way none of them ever looked liked a Lexus then or now.

    M
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    BMW Assist is a great thing to have if you ever need it.
    BMW has done a fabulous job in making sure people like me don't need it.
    Its quality at this point going forward (not looking backward as CR does) is right up there with the best.
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    Tagman - It's a guarantee the new car will be a smash succes and class leader in sales. The past gen cars have dominated that spot - often by wide margins - in 15 of the last 17 years. Saying it will succeed is like saying it'll be mild in summer.
  • callmedrfillcallmedrfill Member Posts: 729
    As far as Lexus cars looking alike, if you look at the cars, in profile, they definitely look much different from each other. The GS has a more rounded profile. The IS is full of particularly sharp styling cues, and is heavily starched, without becoming an Acura TL. The LS falls in between. So I'm not seeing it either, Merc. A crease here or there, but that's it.

    I like the GS the least (but it is acceptable), I like the IS the most, and the LS is great because it is a quantum leap from where it was, and it's competition has fallen off the table.

    If anything, Mercedes is now cultivating a image of plagirism, with the S-Class taking on wheel humps, the Maybachs' rear end, the Accord's headlights, and the 7's dash.

    And the ML has obviously learned quite a bit from the original RX300.

    All I have to say about the Camry is it has many cues from the Corolla/Yaris/Avalon. It is not my cup of tea.

    When the '92 Camry came out, yeah, that was obviously a descendant of the LS.

    Those days are over. If you can find anything in the Camry exterior that says 2007 LS, good luck!

    The Camry interior does shares a similar overall theme, though.

    DrFill
  • ideleidele Member Posts: 200
    While in Paris last November I saw the S class at the MB showroom on the Champs-'Elys'ees. Also daily there were always a couple of them parked in front of the Ritz as I walked by. The previous S had a sleek tailored look that was very attractive. The new S seems to revert to the bulky style of the S preceding that one.
  • sysweisyswei Member Posts: 1,804
    Well, I don't see as much similarity between the 07 LS and 07 Camry as you do.

    But let's say you're right (for the sake of arguement, and I'd still like to hear an unbiased opinion for instance from designman), and the Camry is a clone. What makes it ok for the S to copy the Maybach butt, but not ok for the Camry to copy the LS butt?

    I guess it is acceptable when a German company does it, but not acceptable when a Japanese company does it?
  • sysweisyswei Member Posts: 1,804
    Jim Press, president of Toyota's U.S. sales unit, said the Japanese auto maker is studying a simple switch, or lever, that the driver can turn or pull to choose between two different settings for a hybrid powertrain: "green" or "power." WSJ source (subscribers)
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    Note the View from Here line. Apparently Lexus doesn't think much of the A8 as it excludes Audi completely by considering only two German competitors. Note also the price issue. This will probably be a car that tops out in the 75K-79K range in a fully loaded LWB edition, 65-70K in the SWB edition and probably in the 85-95K range in the hybrid version where there will be some goodies avaialable that are not available in the gas cars. Merc1 may not like the styling but everyone else does.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/08/automobiles/autospecial/lexus-LS460.html

    This is on the Imperial which apparently is no certainty for production. IMO - it would be a hit but probably at the expense of the 300. Definitely a poor mans replica of a Rolls if it makes it to the showroom.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/09/automobiles/autospecial/chrysler-imperial.html- - - - - -

    Audi seems to even have the press confused with the A6/S6 names.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/09/automobiles/audi-a6.html

    Lastly - Audi roadjet. Lot better looking than the Benz R but that grille has goota to be tuned down. The perfect description line of the grille of all Audis is in the article. Still hoping Lexus builds that HPX. It was the most beautiful design of all these cars.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/10/automobiles/autospecial/audi-roadjet.html
  • scott1256scott1256 Member Posts: 531
    If Lexus adds wheel arches to the LS when they facelift it, remember: Tagman predicted it.

    It wouldn't surprise me - stranger things have happened!
  • lexusilexusi Member Posts: 65
    note this,
    "Individual DVD monitors for rear-seat passengers"

    source:
    http://www.businessweek.com/autos/autobeat/

    well, will it have one headline monitor or individual monitors for each passagner as in the case of a first class airline?? thats wierd becoz Mr. Press said the same in the video "indiviual DVD systems"

    this means it may have 2 dvds?? anyone think so?

    Lexus Era

    Lexusi
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Driving to u appears to be a simple process of getting from point A to point B, w/out worrying if you actually make it there safe

    Driving pleasure at the expense of safety?
    Did I ever say that in any post?
    Are you suggesting that dumbed down technology as Park-Assist is a safety technology?
    I did not know airbags or PCS reduces driving pleasure? Maybe you can explain that idea to me?

    Driving safety starts with the driver and when a driver becomes too dependent on a gizmo then safety will really become an issue.
  • lexusilexusi Member Posts: 65
    Read This, LOOK AT LEXUS PERFECTION, look to attention to details, u germans suckerss!!!

    "Lexus introduced the LS460 here, a replacement for its flagship LS430 now in showrooms. All I have to say is...what could they possibly have left out"

    this one is funny, just wow Japanese, GIVE ME A BREAK!!!

    "ON top of all that, Toyota chief Jim Press tells me that all the wood in each car was sourced from the same tree to achieve perfect consistency"

    "And...the opening of the cup-holder and ash tray were calibrated to emerge from their console pods at exactly the same speed"

    Source:

    http://www.businessweek.com/autos/autobeat/


    Lexus Era

    Lexusi
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    oac, are you trying to start a fire? For goodness sakes, you are basically saying that German car fans should drive nothing more than an original VW Beetle!

    It appears that is precisely what oac is saying.
  • sysweisyswei Member Posts: 1,804
    If A/C were optional, would you and hdpowders take it or not on a BMW? After all, it adds weight and uses engine power, both to the detriment of pure performance.
  • lexusilexusi Member Posts: 65
    LOL, thats funny, good for envirnoment!!! yah and combined 18 MPG is also good for environment, hmm but hybrids are not good for envirnoment, same goes for the combined mid 20s MPG, becoz Japanese did that not germans,

    Germans are the last to know whats good for the envirnoment, dont play that role, it doesnt fit u !

    Lexusi
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    No A/C?

    Was that option not available on the old VW Beetle?

    Purists do not wear straight jackets with delusions of driving in a race track while sitting in their padded cell.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Sorry for the confusion but I had eliminated that post since some forum members here may take it a bit too seriously ;)
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