High End Luxury Cars

ljflx · January 2006

Why will the S65 be coveted? Cars that cease production and are rare are coveted. I could see the Maybach coveted if production stopped, possibly even the Phaeton. The latter though suffers from too many parralels with the A8 and some continued European production.

merc1 · January 2006

Well I'm back. I see I haven't missed anything, but 325+ posts about the same stuff we've been arguing about for years now it seems!! I may or may not go back through all of those posts to respond to some of the more curious items. Anyway, down to business.

This year's NAIAS was without a doubt the best I've ever been too. The sheer number of new cars and stunning concepts took two days to fully absorb. All of the hard times we read about are all forgotten for a few hours by buyers and executives alike it seems. It also shows that when some in the automotive industry are in trouble the creative thinking (or survival skills) kicks into high gear. Since this is the luxury board I'll mainly discuss the luxury car scene at Detroit this year.

Audi - Audi is, for the first time feeling themselves in the U.S. Their model line brochures now read "Arguably The Best Cars in the World". Looking at the S8,S6,RS4, and Q7 you get the feeling that you could seriously entertain that notion. The S8 is absolutely stunning, inside and out. The B&O sound system arrives this fall for 8K! The S8 on display didn't have the system (come on Audi, why not?). The RS4 is an A4 on something powerful. The S6 is just a smaller S8 with a little less power. There was also an A8 W12 there with a 26K(!) interior package from Quattro GmBh. Stunning, but not worth that kind of money, the whole car stickered for over 150K! Despite all the performance vehicles on display, the real important intro for Audi is the Q7. It has the typical Audi high-quality, high-style interior, and it is a looker. There will be a 3.6L V6 model sometime this summer, same engine as the Passat 3.6 (276hp). I predict success for this vehicle for sure. Audi's future is as bright as it can be IMO. They're pouring on the performance this year to better compete with that other performance minded German luxury brand. There isn't an unattractive or loser car in their lineup.

Cadillac - Very impressed with the STS-V overall, but like so many GM products the interior isn't up to the price and the XLR-V at 100K is just wishful thinking. There is no way the car is worth that. The good news and all the crowd yowling took place at the Escalade stand. There they were the Escalade, Escalade EXT and Escalade ESV, all in black. I've always liked the EXT version (the one with the pickup bed). The only fly in the buttermilk is that the interior plastics look great as does the interior design, but if the Chevy Tahoe and GMC Yukon are anything to go by, the plastics are still of the hard and cheap variety. The CTS seemed incredibly dated. Just looking around the Cadillac display I get the feeling something is missing, a true flagship vehicle to compete in the big leagues is needed.

Mercedes-Benz - Two S-Class models on display, a S550 and S65 AMG. The S-Class fender arches don't appear as big in real life as the do in photos. Now the S-Class with the AMG wear like the S65 had is stunning and very aggressive looking. The basic S without the AMG kit looked a lot better than I originally pictured it. The car is huge, but still very sleek and hides its bulk extremely well. This is no 1992 S-Class by any means when it comes to looking bulky. Interest was very high for the S, GL, SLR (of course), SL and CLS. There was a black CLS55 AMG tucked in the corner of the display. This particular one had the AMG Performance Package. Absolutely stunning! This car had people standing around with their mouths open as did the SLR. I happen to walk up at the right time because I got a chance to sit in the previously locked SL55. With all the hoopla about the S-Class and CLS, I had forgotten about how much I love the SL. The car fells custom made. Separate from Detroit, the SL facelift details have been revealed. See Article. They had two samples of the new GL there. The GL looks a lot more distinctively Benzish in person. There is even a hint of the real "G" there too, the real G (a G55) was also on display. However, the GL's interior isn't going to hold a candle to the Range Rovers I saw. No chance. MB had better not go looking for a direct confrontation on price with Land Rover on this one. Apart from having a merely "nice" interior as opposed to s stunning one, the GL is larger than it looks in pictures. The third row could actually be used by smaller humans. No CL on display, guess it is farewell to my favorite Benz design from 2000-2005, the new model will be shown in March at Geneva. The diesels start arriving this fall. First the E320, then the ML320 and R320 and then a GL320 next spring. The C-Class is showing its age for sure and the E-Class (while mobbed) is showing some age also. The biggest problem I saw here is that the interiors of the ML,R and the GL to a lesser degree aren't up Benz's car interiors. This is done on the instance of MBUSI still trying to save a buck. All three have "nice" interiors that would pass muster in lesser-named vehicles, but not in a Mercedes when the S,CLS,SL,CLK are sitting right there nearly feeling and looking like they're built by someone else. Overall, Mercedes-Benz still draws a huge crowd and all the oohs and ahhs. Crisis? What crisis?

BMW - I'll take an M6 please. Very impressive in that it can "clobber" Aston-Martins (as the BMW rep advised). This was my first time really seeing the 2006 7-Series up close. I'd only seen it on the road and/or just driving by the dealership. It looks a lot better, but it still doesn't cut it for me in the style department. I will say that the white 760Li on display had a back seat of supreme comfort. Very bold and brash, but not pretty. The M3 continues to be a favorite as does the 650i Convertible. I gave up on trying to sit in the M5, too many people and I'd already sat in the M6 long enough to get on the nerves of some folks waiting to sit in it. The BMW Coupe Concept is a peculiar item, though it looks worlds better than the previous Z3 Coupe. I've always liked the Z4, and now the M Roadster slots in for duty. Should be a real thrill ride with a 330hp version of the M3's I6. It is still MB,Audi, and BMW for me, but BMW is gaining ground and isn't so distant to Audi anymore.

Porsche - The 997 is timeless. I particularly like the C4 versions with their wider bodywork. Combine that bodywork with a Cabrio top and you have the best looking 911 in years. Of course the important introduction was the Cayman. Nice, but I want a 911. The Cayenne Turbo S is going to be a short lived model because the Cayenne is due for a facelift for 2007, to be shown at Geneva in March and on sale here this fall. Why they didn't wait until then is a mystery.

cont.....

merc1 · January 2006

Lexus - Lexus had two LS460s on display, one short and one long. The long wheelbase car looks a little unbalanced to my eye. The room and features are first rate in the LS460L. Forget about the 7-Series comparisons, it doesn't look like a 7-Series. It looks like an upsized IS350 if anything. A little slab sided and lacking any detailing just like the IS, but the overall shape is inoffensive and still conservative to me. Very plain, but sleek and a big improvement over the LS430 in every way. This will be the most successful LS in the model's history. The interest was sky high and there seemed to be talk of a smaller engined LS model for 2008 along with the LS600h. I didn't get the feeling this particular rep knew what she was talking about. I don't see a less powerful LS model being produced. No sitting in the LS, just like the S-class. Who decides this stuff? Anyway, I really like the GS until I have to look at the styling. I like the tight interior, but that whale look kills the car for me. The IS350 is the Lexus for me if I had to get one. I still find the SC430 to be interesting car. The GS450h sat at the back of the Lexus section with little or no attention. I honestly don't see the point of the GS450h since it isn't AWD and won't have more hp than the GS460 (provided the GS460 gets the full 380hp). Huge crowds at Lexus, mainly for the LS460.

Infiniti - The Coupe Concept was a letdown. I expected a new car. The concept is nothing more than a current G35 Coupe with a new interior and nose. The rear is nearly the same as before. The G35 sedan is dated. I remain a fan of the M45 Sport and FX45. None of the Infiniti reps knew anything about a Q45 replacement.

Jaguar - Unfortunately I have mixed feeling about their star of the show, the new XK. The car is gorgeous from the rear and side, but that nose isn't so hot. They didn't have a Super V8 Portfolio there either! "It was being used for the L.A. show" was the reason I got for this.

Bentley - The Bentley rep told me that the Continental GT is selling so well that they didn't feel they needed to display one this year. It and the Continental Flying Spur (brick, IMO) are nothing to look at and Bentley are supposed to be gorgeous. They did have the new convertible Azure there, pure old-school Bentley. My favorite Bentley, the Arnage was there either. Boo!

Maserati - Is it me or do the Italians have an unmatched sense of style? Their display was just the most tasteful setup and the cars aren't bad either. The Quattroporte has only one 4-door rival from a styling and interior point of view. This car was shown in two forms, the Sport GT and Executive GT. I like the Executive version better. The paint (dark blue) and interior (deeper than life tan leather and dark wood) were very sheek looking. As much as a like the Spider, it is time for a replacement, though it looks as gorgeous as ever in Gransport trim.

Ferrari - The favorite Ferrari is the F430 Spider. On hand and stunning. The 612 Scagletti is too long and looks unbalanced. To bad the recently announced 575M replacement - the 599 GTB won't be shown in public until March/Geneva. unlike last years, there wasn't any F1 news to be found anywhere and for good reason.

Maybach - A surprise with the 57S. Another brand using L.A. as an excuse as to why they didn't have more cars on display. The Maybach 57S looks so much better than the standard versions with its black paint and whitish leather. I'll take one of these over the Rolls Phantom any day.

cont...

merc1 · January 2006

Rolls-Royce - Two Phantoms on display. One short, one long. The LWB model is a big as a Peterbuilt. I'm still not a fan of this car, but its presence is undeniable. I guess beauty and grace aren't part of the Rolls-Royce theme anymore because the Phantom is neither. Why the better looking (at least in photos) 100EX (future Corniche) hasn't been shown outside of L.A. yet is beyond me.

Land-Rover - A winning lineup of SUVs. The best luxury SUVs going IMO. My favorite is the Range Rover Sport of course. Ford had Land Rover and Jaguar next to each other and they compliment each other nicely. Nothing new here, but a few people seemed to be shocked at the nearly 100K sticker on the Range Rover Supercharged.

Acura - Acura has long since been replaced by Infiniti as my favorite of the Japanese luxury three. There is nothing exciting to look at when it comes to Acura. Just nice, reliable, vehicles...no spice. The TSX and TL are nice cars, as is the RL, but they simply don't excite any way style wise. The RDX I'm sure will be a hit. Now bring on that new NSX and we'll have something to talk about here.

Notes, Trends and Details:

BMW, Maserati and Bentley all had their sedans in Dark Blue with either cream or tan leather. This just happens to be my favorite color combination for big luxury 4-doors. Some type of dark Blue or Green are my favs on these type of cars. Everyone has a Black or Silver MB/BMW etc.

My favorite concepts this year:

1. Chevy Camaro - without a doubt the best concept of the show and the best one GM has ever shown. They finally had a concept to rival the Concept Car King - Chrysler. The Camaro manages to pay tribute to the past while brining the classic ponycar theme into the future. It isn't a complete duplicate of the past like the Mustang and Challenger. That puts it ahead of those two with me.

2. Mazda Kabura - small, light, sleek and shaped just right. Built on the Miata chassis and very doable. There is something about the side profile and stance of this car that makes it a winner with me.

3. Dodge Challenger - Retro taken to far? Unlike the Camaro, the Challenger is a exact duplicate of the original. Still stunning, but not as much so in person after seeing the futuristic Camaro.

4. Chrysler Imperial - This car had folks mesmerized. Heavy, big, large, etc. etc. The sentiment seemed to be that since the 300 is seen as a knockoff Bentley, why not build this as a knockoff Rolls. I agree. Priced right (40-50K) this would be a hit for Chrysler. Make the 340hp Hemi standard and the 425hp version standard on the top line version.

5. Mini Concept - A natural follow up to the current hit. Mini should offer a hybrid IMO. That would go real well with their imagine and marketing slant on small cars.

6. Volvo C30 - Very Golf-like. I doubt if we'll see it here, but it will undoubtedly do well in Europe.

The crowds for Bentley, Rolls-Royce, Aston-Martin, Ferrari, Lamborghini and Maserati were as thick as ever. These cars draw attention no matter what they have on display.

Overall you get the sense the GM and Ford are really trying. Ford seems to be serious about giving Lincoln some actual cars to sell besides the age/livery cast Town Car. The MKS seems like a step in the right direction as is the MKX crossover. While Ford seems to be concentrating on more mainstream products with the Ford and Lincoln brands, GM seems to still be concentrating in niche products like the Camaro and Solstice GXP. These products won't save them. The need a mainstream hit like the Chrysler 300.

Don't think for a minute that the Dodge Challenger won't be in a showroom near you in summer 2007 as a 2008 model. I'd even wager that the Imperial will be built also.

Now the one GM concept that I saw that held the most promise (besides the Camaro) is the Buick Enclave. This is what GM needs, a good looking, modern mainstream product, not niche vehicles.

Some disappointments were the Bentley Continental Flying Spur, Infiniti Coupe Concept, the Chevy Tahoe's interior material quality. I expected more with all three of these considering how they each have been represented in pictures.

Pics to follow in a few days. There you have it, the "Merc1" 2006 NAIAS report!

M

syswei · January 2006

Thanks, Merc1!

pat · January 2006

Super write-up, merc1, thanks!

scott1256 · January 2006

we owe you. Thanks for the first person report.

I too wonder why the delay on the 100EX (Corniche). It is a stunner in pictures.

Concur on the Imperial: a huge seller if DC builds it.

Glad the S class looks better in the metal than in pics. What color were the S classes on display? What was it about the GL interior you didn't like?

On interiors: the Brits and Italians do interiors so much better than the Germans, Japanese and Americans. I concur: cream/ivory interiors look great.

Challenger and Camaro: best sellers in the making.

Time for a new CTS. Sales increased again last year: get the new model on the fast track to keep it moving. I also think the Escalade trio will bring Cadillac SUV sales back to life.

You mention a sense that Cadillac is missing a model. Obviously it is the Sixteen - Caddy should build it!

merc1 · January 2006

The S-Class models on display were Black (S550) and Silver (S65 AMG). The GL, R and ML interiors just don't have the same material quality as say CLS, CLK or new S-Class. They're much better than the original ML, but still aren't among the top of their repsective classes. Mercedes really needs to examine a Range Rover to see how a proper luxury SUV interior is done. Either that or spend the same amount of money on the Bama Benzes as they do on the German built ones.

Yes the British and Italians do interior better imo. They have a way of working the wood and leather in a way that the rest of the world hasn't figured out. Only Audi gets close the same "way" of doing it.

Just think if Chrysler can score a hit with the Challenger, Imperial and the next generation mid-size sedans! Their new found success will definitely be sustainable.

Yeah I want to see a true flagship car from Cadillac. The DTS ain't it.

M

hpowders · January 2006

Merc1-Allow me to add my thanks for the comprehensive report on the auto show.
The Audi Q7 has really piqued my interest.
Should be a big hit in the $50-60K luxury SUV category.

merc1 · January 2006

I'm glad you all enjoyed it.

HD - The Q7 is a nice vehicle for sure. Now if gas prices don't spike to high the spring/summer Audi, Mercedes and Cadillac should all find plenty of buyers for their new SUVs.

A few other things:

Bugatti wasn't there. I was looking foward to seeing this million dollar, 16-cylinder car in person. Of course it was being shown in L.A. which will likely be its biggest market. I can understand that I guess.

VW has two displays, one on the upper level and one on the lower level. The Phaeton was on the lower level and locked up tight. It is a goodbye for this car for sure though people seemed interested in it.

OMG Geely, the Chinese brand! I predict utter failure for this venture. I wouldn't be so sure the Chinese brand that come over after Geely will fail however. I think they'll know better than to bring over such a dated, forgettable car.

M

lexusguy · January 2006

Japanese collector cars are currently few and far between. The only ones really right now are the original Toyota FJ-40 Land Cruisers, and of course the Toyota 2000GT sports car.

The S8 and S65 are nice cars, but not collector cars. They certainly arent something you should buy as an investment. I also shudder to think how expensive it would be to try and maintain a 30 or 40 year old Audi MMI or Mercedes COMAND system.

scott1256 · January 2006

IMO if Toyota sent the Century to the USA it would find a ready market.

I suppose that won't happen.

lexusguy · January 2006

"Ford seems to be serious about giving Lincoln some actual cars to sell besides the age/livery cast Town Car. The MKS seems like a step in the right direction as is the MKX crossover."

Really? I didnt get that impression at all. First of all, the nonsensical, last minute change from Aviator and Continental to "MKS" and "MKX" is probably one of the dumbest things they could possibly do. The MKX is entirely a bandwagon vehicle that is 10 years to late, and has absolutely nothing to set it apart from the competition, nor does it look anything like a Lincoln. Its some kind of hodge-podge rip-off of 18 other crossovers currently on sale. Its actually less interesting than the Ford Freestyle, I didnt think that was possible.

The MKS is actually worse, I think. Its like a GS430, minus all of the styling excitement. They took this:

And ended up with this. Talk about a step backwards.

syswei · January 2006

I think the styling looks way too dated.

merc1 · January 2006

. I also shudder to think how expensive it would be to try and maintain a 30 or 40 year old Audi MMI or Mercedes COMAND system.

The same goes for all of these high-tech luxury cars 30-40 years from now. None of them are going to be cheap and/or going to last that long without some major money being spent to keep them going.

About Lincoln, I just got the feeling that Ford is at least trying to breathe some life into Lincoln. People seemed to be impressed with both the MKS and MKS. The MKS is the direct kin of the new Volvo S80 for sure. I had figured Ford would give up on Lincoln but they aren't. Will they topple Cadillac or compete with the brands we talk about here? Heck no. I agree the name change was dumb. Aviator sounds so much better MKX (Mark X) to me, but to Lincoln fans it may resonate. Though I know nothing about a last minute change from Continental to MKS. The Continental name is kinda tired for Lincoln and maybe a fresh start is what is needed. The MKS really isn't a bad car and certainly can't hurt Lincoln.

M

merc1 · January 2006

I forgot to mention Volvo in my first posts about the Detroit autoshow. The new C70 is just the neatest car. It looks good top-up and top-down. Typical comfortable and logical Volvo interior and a unique style, the C70 is a winner for sure. I'd like to see 300hp "R" version.

M

lexusguy · January 2006

I suppose thats true, the MKS really cant do any damage. Its just that if they expect to target the STS with it, they're fooling themselves.

merc1 · January 2006

I agree. I don't think they're going after the STS. I think they're trying to carve out a unique niche as the American luxury car brand that isn't trying to be European. Lincoln's glitzy interiors kinda already say that IMO. Ford doesn't have the money to spend on Lincoln to even get them close to Cadillac at this point.

M

tayl0rd · January 2006

IMO if Toyota sent the Century to the USA it would find a ready market.

NOBODY, and I mean NOBODY, would buy that thing over here. It's ugly as sin and has ZERO style or image to it. People with the wherewithal to spend that kind of money on a car don't do it "just because." They do it because of the image and style that a car of that price should convey in addition to the luxury of it.

tayl0rd · January 2006

I actually like the latter picture better, but those taillights are a bit odd.

lexusi · January 2006

Very nice and well said report, thanx for ur efforts

ljflx · January 2006

Deep under all that Mercedes love there is a very objective car guy. I've said that before in different words but I'll say it again. Excellent report.

The LS excitement bears out my feelings that this car is going to be a smash. I'm curious to see the S in person to see if I agree on the wheel arches. One thing for sure September and later big lux sedan sales will be heavily dominated by Lexus and MB.

bdr127 · January 2006

Maybe Japanese taste in cars is different than American taste in cars..... but I personally think that car is ugly, inside and out. And that has nothing to do with arguing German vs. Japanese. I just think the car looks like a mid-80s Dodge/Chrysler. Just not what I'd expect for top-of-the-line luxury. IMO, base model Lexus here in the USA look better than that, inside and out.

lexusguy · January 2006

No, the Century is just a very dated looking car, I think thats universal. The Crown Majesta is a modern luxury car, more attractive than the current LS430, actually.

lexusguy · January 2006

No, the Century is just a very dated looking car, I think thats universal. The Crown Majesta is a modern luxury car, more attractive than the current LS430, actually.

ljflx · January 2006

I wonder if the Crown Majesta should have been the GS. It would have done more damage to an E-class than current GS will do to a 5-series IMO. Maybe also it's a version Lexus brings here instead of the lesser powered LS Merc mentioned.

tagman · January 2006

merc1,

I finally got a chance to read your posts. Some of these other "old-timers" are more familiar with you than I am . . . so, I must say that you continue to amaze me as I read more of your writings over time. It is truly a pleasure. From a personal standpoint, I was awaiting your feedback most of all for the GL, the S-Class, and the LS460 (and L). . . but I enjoyed every word of your report. Again, a little later than some of the others, but my first opportunity to say a well-deserved "THANKS" to you. And . . . welcome back!

TagMan

tagman · January 2006

merc1,

I finally got a chance to read your posts. Some of these other "old-timers" are more familiar with you than I am . . . so, I must say that you continue to amaze me as I read more of your writings over time. It is truly a pleasure. From a personal standpoint, I was awaiting your feedback most of all for the GL, the S-Class, and the LS460 (and L). . . but I enjoyed every word of your report. Again, a little later than some of the others, but my first opportunity to say a well-deserved "THANKS" to you. And . . . welcome back!

TagMan

docnukem · January 2006

I think the styling looks way too dated.

Dated? Geez, next you'll be telling me that my Aries K looks dated.

scott1256 · January 2006

The many quality posts this week in various discussions (HELMs and others) have reminded me again why I enjoy this site so much.

All the first hand reports, article links, thoughtful comments, insights and predictions have been great.

Edmund's is one of the best resources I know for automotive info, both subjective and objective.

lexusguy · January 2006

The Crown series somewhat parallels our GS. They are on the same platform, and engine options are similar. The Crown Athlete and Royal have the new 2.5 and 3.0 V6s, while the Majesta gets the 4.3 V8. Interestingly, it sounds like the V8 powered Majesta offers AWD. It's hard to say how the Crown would do here if it was transplated here directly. While I like most of the design, I'm not crazy about the rear and the rather blatant copying that was done.

garyh1 · January 2006

I wonder if the Crown Majesta should have been the GS. It would have done more damage to an E-class than current GS will do to a 5-series IMO.

I have to agree with you here, Len. The relationship between the ES and the GS300 has always been confusing to me, even understanding the large technical differences between them.

For example, in about a year I will be looking for a replacement for my '98 E320 (extremely low mileage) that my wife is now driving, and I can't figure out what to get for her. She's no sports car driver, but unless an AWD version of the ES becomes available, I'm not sure I'd want to see her in a FWD car. And the GS300AWD is too small in the back seat to be practical, but the LS is more car than she wants. She's not going to like the interior of the 5-series, and neither of us can stand to look at the nose of the A6. And I'm not ready to assume that MB has fixed the reliability problems of the E yet, although perhaps by then I will be - but I think a new version will be coming out around then, and that really makes me nervous! All of which leads me to believe that if the Majestic has a better back seat than the GS (the pics make it look like it does), it might be the answer for her.

Of course, the best answer may be to convince her to take my LS, and then I can justify getting the new one! :shades:

Bottom line questions for lexusguy: wouldn't it be nice to have a "baby LS" in the showroom, rather than just a gussied-up Camry and 2 versions of an poorly-sized sport sedan? Would the Majesta fill that role?

scott1256 · January 2006

set aside their concerns over protectionist sentiment in the USA and EU. If that ever happens the ultra luxury market will get interesting fast.

Toyota has engines and other systems in place that would enable them to roll out world class sedans, roadsters and coupes in the $100-250,000 bracket.

They now have great cabin designs, at least at home. The interiors Toyota offers in Japan rival what the British and Italians are building.

lexusguy · January 2006

Well, Lexus has no plans to bring the car stateside, so its not something you're going to be able to just get at your local dealer. What do you think of the Acura RL?

bdr127 · January 2006

We've talked about Toyota in Japan as being "THE" luxury brand. I know this is somewhat off-topic for the HELM board, but does Toyota in Japan make cars that are more on our Toyota level, too?

ljflx · January 2006

Gary - there are certain things you just look at and you know they'd be big hits. The Crown Majesta and the Imperial concept are two that come right to mind. If I'm a Lexus dealer I want that car here tomorrow and if I'm a Chrysler dealer I want the Imperial production starting tomorrow. An AWD Crown Majesta here will be a smash hit IMO and given it's more ES in size it would be viewed as a smaller LS. Now if they make that car become the next ES and restyle it with L-finesse than the ES sales - which are already quite high - will surge. I've read in a number of places the new ES will be distinctly different than the Camry, so maybe it's a possibility.

rjlaero · January 2006

Sorry, but to me, that car looks circa 1992. Nothing special about the design and it's a very boring look.

garyh1 · January 2006

What do you think of the Acura RL?

Good suggestion, lexusguy. I never have looked at the RL closely. It had just come out when I got my LS in October '05. The early reviews all commented on the small size of the back seat, and that was a big deal for me (carrying 2-3 people in back for business meetings, and carrying my two teenagers on family outings), so I never pursued it. And the styling of the front of the car was singularly unexciting to me. But that certainly is something to consider if nothing else comes along before then that takes her breath away.

merc1 · January 2006

Deep under all that Mercedes love there is a very objective car guy. I've said that before in different words but I'll say it again. Excellent report.

Of course I am, thanks! This year was like the best show ever since I've been going. The sheer number of concepts and production debuts were a lot to take in. I enjoyed going through the trouble of trying to do so.

M

merc1 · January 2006

Thanks. Wait until I get a chance to go to Geneva or Frankfurt. Those shows are like 5-10 times larger than Detroit!

M

merc1 · January 2006

It seems that Edmunds loves the new S-Class:

Article

Also, Autolies has some gorgeous pics of the new S at a Phoenix AZ launch party.

Autospies Pics

M

syswei · January 2006

It does sound good, I hadn't read anything so detailed before.

lexusguy · January 2006

Impressive, it sounds as though it makes short work of the A8 in terms of handling, thats unusual for a Benz. I really dont like those 800,000 identical silver buttons though, nor am I a fan of Mercedes' new steering wheel design. Not quite as bad as this one, which I think was the worst Benz wheel ever, but close.

syswei · January 2006

I noticed that autospies had only the S550, S600, S65, and 4matic in their cy2006 timeline. When will a 450 appear? Will they sell a 350 here? Diesels?

garyh1 · January 2006

A few observations:

1. Technology: WOW. Sounds like they once again have achieved making a large car drive better than anyone believes it should. Seats and stereo sound amazing. But is there still no easy big dial to increase the volume of the radio? I love those 2 big rotary dials on my LS that let me (or my less tech-oriented spouse next to me) kick up the volume or slide up a few MHz to another station without having to think which button or combination of buttons I need to press. AND NOTE THE FOLLOWING: "Dynamic control invasive if the car begins to oversteer. And the system cannot be disabled." I wonder if germancarfans will knock this the way they knock the Lexus cars for this.

2. Styling: I can't wait to see it in person to judge for myself. The wheel flares and trunk bulge still turn me off in the pics, especially in the light colors where the shadows exaggerate the design elements. Maybe I could live with it in real life? I'd hate to have to rule the car out just on a design, like I have had to do with the A8 based on its just too, too ugly nose. NOTE TO GERMANCARFANS: NOT MUCH WOOD ON THE DASH, BUT THERE IS ON THE STEERING WHEEL! Oh no, MB goes Lexus just where I dislike it the most....

3. Reliability: Can you imagine trying to maintain this car once the warranty is over- even if MB's past problems are resolved? Scary....

4. Pricing: Starting at $86K, and then adding $18K more in options! Ow. I don't suppose there will be a well-equipped S430 version for a lot less than that? But I guess MSRP (and to a lesser extent, long-term reliability)doesn't matter if you can lease it for no money down, $499/month for 36 months.

Any way you cut it, it's sure going to be interesting to compare the new S and the new LS!

And Merc1, ditto everyone else's comments on a great and comprehensive report on the Detroit show!

syswei · January 2006

no money down, $499/month for 36 months

Where do I sign?

oac · January 2006

I did read Edmund's review of the S550. It was glowing mostly... I concur that this car will make a HUGE impact on the HELM sector when it gets released (within weeks, I suppose). For such a big and large car to corner flat is amazing. I love the cool non-shifter "shifter". Now that is a really cool feature I'd love on any car. 80mph and barely nudging 2K rpm ? Nice. But 6.1s to 60, with 382HP and 5.5L sounds slow, or am I imagining things wrongly ? Doesn't the 278HP LS430 do 0-60 in under 6s already ???

Overall, the technology in that car is impressive, the ride equally impressive, about the biggest complaint for me is the price - $86 to 104K ??? Ouch !!! That is serious money to shell out, lease or purchase. Maybe the lease rate will be generous and you can get one leased for under $1200/month... The car will be hot, and should do very well in the market.

Good job, MB..

jrock65 · January 2006

This is according to someone else, who got it from his dealer. Personally, I think the dealer is talking out of his [non-permissible content removed], but here goes:

"LS460 Base $64,900 (fully loaded $85,000)
LS460L Supposedly only comes fully loaded - $89,900
LS600hL $115,000 (only comes fully loaded)

He said Lexus is trying to reduce the number of packages available to make it easier for them to produce.

Also, he said the new LS600hL will have 140hp more than the LS460. So, that equates to about 520hp. It will get 35MPG in town. 460L will get about 20-21 in town.

LS460L and 600hL will have AWD standard."

jrock65 · January 2006

"But 6.1s to 60, with 382HP and 5.5L sounds slow, or am I imagining things wrongly ? Doesn't the 278HP LS430 do 0-60 in under 6s already ???"

Edmunds gets the lowest 0-60 times for all cars, probably because they don't torque brake. For example, the got 6.1s for the IS350.

C&D got 5.3s 0-60 for the S550 in their recent test.

merc1 · January 2006

I noticed that autospies had only the S550, S600, S65, and 4matic in their cy2006 timeline. When will a 450 appear? Will they sell a 350 here? Diesels?

I asked all these question to MB reps in Detroit. I was told by one person that there will be no S450 and that there will be by another. The first rep came over during our conversation and said that there will be NO S450. Doesn't make sense to me. They both agreed that the new S320 CDI will be sold here sometime in 2007. The S450 and S63 AMG remain a mystery at this point. There is no way Mercedes developed a new 4.6L V8 for just the GL450.

M

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