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Comments
TagMan
M
M
Are MB and BMW sold in the US engineered by their European engineers or by American design studios alone? US is by far the most competitive market for MB and BMW; if they don't dissect the market leader in the US for analysis, what do they dissect?
I was trapped behind 2 cars traveling side by side at 70 mph. Cars were backing up behind them. I ran up behind the driver in the RH lane to try and "persuade" him to slow down in retaliation. When he did it created a gap between the 2 cars as the LH lane driver pulled ahead. I pulled into the LH lane and passed the RH driver, then pulled into the RH lane to pass.
My wife yelled DOG! Then changed to DEER! She jumped into the RH lane and stopped facing me. I squared off for a full frontal impact. Then she turned her head to the LH lane and made one step which made her now sideways in the lane. I figured she was committed, so I swerved right just catching her rear lower leg.
Luckily there was a strong cross wind that night and I had the "sport" setting on to reduce steering correction efforts. I ended up crossing hands with most of the vehicle on the emergency lane.
Remember, I was passing in the right lane so there was a vehicle beside me on the left and behind me. Hard panic braking was out of the question.
The impact spun the deer between the car to my left and myself. I could see headlights under her in my drivers side mirror as she tried to raise up. She was now in the LH lane in front of a semi. It's lights started bouncing up and down violently as is swerved to the left.
and that........
is the rest of the story.
Good day.
She cracked the lower cowling and a bumper grill came up missing. Lucky me with 350 miles on the vehicle.
Out here in California, if we shoot Bambie, we're criminals.
TagMan
Sorry, just boggles the mind a tad hey?
:confuse:
Crack babies.
One of the biggest releases of the year and they can't even get their facts straight. Why haven't they changed it yet too?
Totally unqualified to do what they are doing.
ljflx - - "your read" that Motor Trend Magazine DELIBERATELY mis-represented the LS460 highlights! . . .
is based on what evidence?
TagMan
If Autospies got it right, don't you think MT should at least? I mean, this is laughable!
To me, one-upping the S-class transmission to 8 speeds strikes as a big deal. We aren't talking about an entry-level Kia here...
I really don't know what else to say.
I just don't think they are very smart.
DELIBERATE? --- nah.
PATHETIC? --- Oh yeah.
STUPID? --- Oh yeah.
Do I care too much what they say? --- no way!
The main use I have for the rags is that they get to put the cars through the serious paces that we generally can't do on our test drives. It's entertainment. Other than that . . . I have little use for them.
TagMan
If you look at page 107 in the March issue of Motor Trend it clearly shows a picture of the LF-SH Concept, not the production LS460. This likely means that as the March issue went to press (likely early Jan/late Dec), they for one didn't have the offical specs and they certainly didn't have the pics of the production car. The writeup clearly states "with an expected 350hp and seven speed automatic", meaning they were speculating. You'll notice none of the monthly automags have any Detroit pictures from the actual show, just writeups based on info given right before the show. In the April issue of MT you'll see pics and info right from the show floor in Detroit.
Are they still biased at the end of article when they state: "Is it possible to get even more perfect"?
The Maybach 57S has been out in Europe since late last year and all the mags have driven it already at its press introduction, unlike the LS460. The Maybach 57S isn't a new car like the LS460, it really is just and engine/interior update of an existing car, meaning there really isn't much to "know".
I can't believe you actually think MT would try to deliberately downplay any particular car when the truth of the matter is their information was speculation as the March issue likely went to press before the official info came out.
All this about they've shown their "bias" is really ridiculous IMO. Magazines speculate all the time until they get the offical info to press. You know full well they will have the correct specs next month after having been given/seen the correct info at Detroit.
I can see it now, you'll use this printing/timing issue (which is really a non-issues) as the basis of a "they're biased" excuse if the LS460 doesn't ace the inevitable comparo MT will have once they can get the LS460/750/S550/A8 together.
Just for the record their website (you know the media that can be updated with no delay) has the correct information. Their website has had this information posted since the car was introduced at the show, clearly before the magazine went to press.
M
Excellent analysis of the situation.
Just when I thought you might be laying low . . . WHAM!
Thanks.
TagMan
I believe you hit the nail on the head. Had I known that the information was from the March issue of MT and not on their website I would have said, "That is a good estimate, but I think it will have more power."
Since I work at a publishing company, I know that the whole process of putting a magazine together from the sales cycle, editorial content, to the layout, and then printing process can take several months. I forgive them. Then again, there isn't much to say sorry about on their side...
A simple misunderstanding.
I just got Automobile Magazine today and they have a few pics from the Detroit Autoshow right from the floor so they obviously went to press much later than MT did, and yes their stats on the LS460 are correct.
M
Makes monthly car mags seem like carrier pidgeons!
God Bless the Intranet!
DrFill
Freegin' hilarious!!!
Carrier pigeons with attitude!... Oh, and a lot of advertising dollars! I swear, they could give the magazine away for free and still make a profit.
If you don't already know . . . do you want to guess before you look?
OK, here it is:
link title
Fast enough? Nothing about the price . . . but I guess if you need to know . . . well . . . you know the saying.
TagMan
(Yah, had to off a few posts, sorry)
Thanks!
What do you think of the LS460?
It is interesting that there is a diminished forfeiture of those claims from the opposing side. For example, the Lexus camp's claim to reliability is higher on the scale than the Euro camp's willingness to agree, although there is some noticeable concession.
Conversely, the Euro camp's claim to superior styling/performance is higher on the scale than the Lexus camp's willingness to agree, although, again, there is some concession.
Overall, if you measure the claims, and measure the concessions, it would seem that there is enough indication to conclude that there is truth to the claims, but not to the full level that is actually claimed.
So, a neutral bystander would easily ascertain that the Lexus is in fact more reliable than the Eurocars, and that the Eurocars in fact have superior styling and/or performance.
When reviewing the posts, the Lexus camp's defense of their prize vehicles often reveals itself to be a style comparable to cheerleading. "Go Lexus, Go! . . . Win! Win! Win!"
The Eurocars defense style can be similar at times, but is often a style that compares more to playing "king of the hill".
Also revealed . . . a little envy that travels in both directions. Do the Lexus fans wish their prized vehicles had more styling and handling? I think it leaks out that they do, and is occasionally accompanied with remarks of this suggestive style, "The new models will have better styling . . . We've got you now! Go Lexus, Go! Win! Win! Win!"
Conversely, do the Eurocar fans wish their prized vehicles had greater reliability? I think it leaks out that they do, and is occasionally accompanied with remarks of this suggestive style, "I'm sure they are aware of the problems and are working on it . . . the new models are likely to be more reliable."
So, what's it all mean? It means the buyer has to make some hard choices that leave some desireable factors on the table.
Bottom line . . . which is more important or preferable? . . . reliability with a lesser degree of styling and performance . . . or styling and performance with a lesser degree of reliability?
Would it be a wild guess that some folks in each camp might claim to have it all, especially in "new and upcoming models"?
Tough choice for some. Not so for others.
Just for the record, when confronted with this choice, I choose style and/or performance. For me, it is more satisfying. Why do I make that choice? Simple. You can fix a malfunction, but you can't fix the styling!
TagMan
Conversely, you can get to where you're going with or without style, but not if your vehicle won't move.
Six of one, half dozen of the other...
Six of one, half dozen of the other...
Nice perspective, doc, but . . . Really? You think they are equivalent? Try this difference:
Your "non-moving" malfunction is quite temporary . . . Your weak styling is quite permanent.
TagMan
Not necessarily. Honda Civics are converted to 3-series BMWs and Ford Mustangs all the time! :P :confuse: :sick:
I think the perception of a direct correlation between price and reliability is wrong.
Does the person that buys a Porsche, Masseratti, or Ferrari, expect the same level of reliability out of a similar priced Mercedes, BMW, or Lexus?
I know my sunroof is reliable because it is manual. If it were electric, featured one touch express, heated, voice activated, presafe system operational, pinch feature equipped, summer/globally operated from individually programmable key fobs, large enough to fit a cow thru, or made up of individual panels that stack like a deck of cards...... I would not expect the same (especially on a standard 12v system).
What say you?
Throughout my car-buying career, there has always been a sedan I wanted. No more. What happened? There's a lot of horrible styling out there, and the ones that are decent come with one sort of baggage or another.
One minute I think it would be the XJ, another minute the A8 and yet another, the 7. I sincerely doubt whether the LS will be stiff enough. Who knows, could be the S.
Down a class it would be between the 5 and A6. But like I said, no burning desire anywhere. My long-time heart throb BMW shafted me big time.
:sick:
You realize I am playing devil's advocate. A reliable MB or a stylish Lexus (and beauty is clearly in the eye of the beholder, anyway) would be a home run (if money were no object).
To add to your earlier comments about "camps", I think you need to consider that the "style" camp is also partly the "making-a-statement" camp, while the "reliability" camp is more of the "practical, get-from-point-A-to-point-B-in-comfort" camp.
If you'll allow me to switch into Hpowders mode for a moment...I obviously chose not to compromise on styling, performance or reliability, thanks to the Infiniti M. :P
To use the analogy already on the thread. The LS will not only get you there but it will do so with grace and style whereas the BMW might get you there, might get you there sooner provided you have to complete a slalom along the way.
Regardless of how unreliable a particular car may be, it will never always be in the shop... but an ugly, non-dynamic car will always be ugly and non-dynamic.
I have been to a few on track training sessions. The most memorable was the Lexus, BMW, and MB comparison. We drove, removed the interior, and had classroom feature benefit price training.
It was very interesting swapping from one to another driving in all conditions. This was a while ago, but the vehicles were the C Class', 3 series', and ES300. With the slk thrown in for good measure. It really gave a good perspective on manufacturer focus.
$.02 I once thought the most beautiful car was the Jag conv. but the new Porsche is HOT!
I find it hard to believe that I am the lucky one among thousands.
If BMW means unreliability, give me excess of it!
My car doesn't take cookies and cocoa. :confuse: Where do you add them?
Is this some funky new biodiesel?
New MB diesel reference.
The exception to all of this is leap year, of course, when the Eurocar is forced to spend it's extra day in the shop, and the weak-styling car is not allowed to be seen in public. :P
TagMan
Others have a different viewpoint. That doesn't make them wrong. It just means they have, as indeed they are entitled, a different opinion.
And the world goes 'round and 'round.
TagMan
Don't you mean "♫ and the wheel goes round and round ♫" refering to the Bridgestone tire commercial featuring the Mercedes-Benz (before McLaren changed to Michelin days.
:P :P :P