Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!

High End Luxury Cars

1…263264266268269…463

Comments

  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    I have also noticed the brake dust issue with MB and BMW. I have owned both these brands in the past and dealing with the brake dust is not fun. Seems as if they could fix this annoying characteristic.

    There are a number of new generation brake pads that incorporate ceramics to address this problem. The upside is that these pads not only eliminate dust, but they do not compromise on the performance of the pads. Here is an interesting read, and I can direct you to others if you want. Start with this one:

    link title

    Let me know what you think.

    TagMan
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    I didn't have a price guide for that new a vehicle. The S500 06:
    (set)front pads 121.52
    (2) front discs 274.40

    Not that bad, IMO. We should compare those prices to the BMW, Lexus and others just to see if anything jumps out. Good work.
    TagMan
  • benzsterbenzster Member Posts: 152
    MB gets a bad rap on service costs. I feel we are VERY reasonable.

    There are those dealerships that charge to much. I priced a 60K service for a customer a while back. He asked how much the oil change was. I said "what?". He said that he paid the same price but the oil change was $45.00 (or so) and how much would a transmission service be. I told him a 60K service included an oil change and transmission service on his model. He then explained that he paid for a 60K, oil change, and transmission service at another dealership.
    I read the MB labor operation to him from the MB "book". Needless to say he was PO'd. Who the heck pays for a service and does not get an oil change? What is a 60K then?
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Who the heck pays for a service and does not get an oil change? What is a 60K then?

    Even if there are dealerships that charge too much . . . if the oil and filter change is supposed to be included in the 60K service, then it's included . . . period. If the customer did not get what was paid for, regardless of the price paid, then the customer has a legitimate complaint. That service charge activity you describe sounds like it is in violation of the dealer's franchise agreement, anyway. At the very least it is ridiculous, pathetic, and GREEDY.

    TagMan
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Member Posts: 1,926
    ... At the very least it is ridiculous, pathetic, and GREEDY.

    You want to hear greedy? I went to my dealer a couple of years ago to inquire about having a factory nav system put in my car. The nav unit is literally plug-n-play and interfaces directly with the car's electronics. It cost $1500 for the unit. The ditz at the service counter tells me it'll be about $3K - $3.5K just to install it! :surprise: She gives me a line about them having to take the dash apart, blah, blah. I bought the unit at another dealer and installed it MYSELF. It took all of 20 minutes to install and I only had to remove just 3 pieces of dash trim to mount the GPS antenna! I wanted to go back to the dealer and slap her for trying to rip me off.

    Up to $3.5K for 20 minutes work?? "Ladies of the evening" don't make that kind of coin! :mad:
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Up to $3.5K for 20 minutes work??

    I think there must be regional or national customer service representatives that should get feedback on this stuff . . . or perhaps they, too, have their hands reaching into our pockets as well. I just don't know, and I think it is an outrage.

    "Ladies of the evening" don't make that kind of coin!

    Well . . . "What happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas!" ;)

    TagMan
  • bdr127bdr127 Member Posts: 950
    You want to hear greedy? I went to my dealer a couple of years ago to inquire about having a factory nav system put in my car. The nav unit is literally plug-n-play and interfaces directly with the car's electronics. It cost $1500 for the unit. The ditz at the service counter tells me it'll be about $3K - $3.5K just to install it! She gives me a line about them having to take the dash apart, blah, blah. I bought the unit at another dealer and installed it MYSELF. It took all of 20 minutes to install and I only had to remove just 3 pieces of dash trim to mount the GPS antenna! I wanted to go back to the dealer and slap her for trying to rip me off.

    What kind of car?
  • benzsterbenzster Member Posts: 152
    The dealer tried to justify (hide) the ticket posting by saying the service is at a different labor rate than an oil change. He said he was saving the customer money by charging the oil change at a reduced labor rate.
    I told him ALL service should be done at the reduced labor rate.
  • blckislandguyblckislandguy Member Posts: 1,150
    There are a lot of ways to measure how much a specific brand is worth. One way is how much does a dealership sell for, exclusive of any real estate, inventory or other hard assets. In other words, just the "blue sky" or "good will".

    The current issue of Automotive News, the trade weekly which should be a must read for all car nuts, says that a Lexus dealership trades hands for between 6 to 10X of net, before tax earnings. A Saturn dealership by contrast goes for between 1 and 3X earnings. The same issue has a front page article on how automotive dealer profits are at a five year low. Apparently when you have to sell the car for invoice and new laws prohibit the old time shenanigans in the F & I room, there isn't much left in profit. Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of guys.
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    "The current issue of Automotive News, the trade weekly which should be a must read for all car nuts, says that a Lexus dealership trades hands for between 6 to 10X of net"

    The normal things that drive multiples are at work here:

    A. Strong parent company manufacturer that is an industry leader.
    B. Healthy industry leading profit margins combined with lots of flexibility allowed by Lexus in pricing.
    C. Strong car sales growth of the brand and industry sales leadership
    D. Secure investment with solid growth potential
    E. Scarcity - there are only 200 or so dealerships in the US
    F. First refusal rights on future dealerships that Lexus wants opened within X miles of an existing dealership.

    I tried to make this additional point awhile back and it's a big item for Lexus. The fact that their dealerships are the most profitable and hence valuable around is a big advantage for Lexus. Often times lux dealerships in high population areas are owned by the same person or company. It stands to reason that you'll always lean to investments in your most valuable and prize worthy assets and right now in multi lux dealerships those are the Lexus dealerships. Would you rather invest in something that gets you a multiple of 2-5 when you sell it or something that gets you a multiple of 6-10??
  • drjmak1drjmak1 Member Posts: 9
    vw phaeton owner...20k miles and need new rotors and pads...170 for set of pads....310 for front rotors and 300 for labor.... :(
  • blckislandguyblckislandguy Member Posts: 1,150
    Ljflx, agreed. If you have a strong brand and a strong dealer network you are unbeatable. BUT, I am surprised by your statement about Lexus dealers having "lots of flexibility allowed by Lexus in pricing." Thats a recipe for brand disaster. Strong brands insist on some form of price fixing/cartel pricing, however illegal. Brands that come to mind are Rolex, Caterpillar, Budweiser (at the distributor level), etc. Sure different dealers may give you deal sweeteners but they can't/won't discount the product. Or at a minimum, they won't advertize it, discount it and sell out of their trading area.

    I think that brands with a big dealer profit margin are setting themselves up for discounting and the prostitution of the line. I've always thought that M/B was smart to have a 6 (or is it 7?) points between list and dealer net. No matter how low class the dealer wanted to act, he wasn't going to be able to diminish the brand by heavily discounting the product, selling it in other territories, and stay in busines.
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    "lots of flexibility allowed by Lexus in pricing."

    Meant it in the context that Lexus doen't have the constraints that MB has with the tight differential between dealer invoice and MSRP. IMO - this tight constraint is not representative of business realities and is about as meaningful as the 55mph speed limit. For all intent and purposes it is a total failure as are most restrictive business constraints in any line of business. On top of that tight business constraints add a lot of red tape and un-needed admin work (on both the retail and mfr side) and slow sales. The Lexus formula is much smarter and allows for a free market and is the ultimate in capitalism. You have to maintain certain high lux dealership standards and score high in customer surveys in order to get high financial benefits/incentives from Lexus and you can only maintain such standards if you are financially strong. Hence this type of crosschecking doesn't allow for discounting or brand dilution in any way shape or form - and that is very obvious in the lease deals. In fact it does the exact opposite and promotes renewed purchases, high margins and high customer satisfaction levels - all of which you see and are some of the qualitative reasons behind the high multiples of a Lexus dealership. The whole process just feeds on itself and is built on the type of premises that long-term bonus plans are built on.

    "Or at a minimum, they won't advertize it, discount it and sell out of their trading area."

    If MB lease deals of $479-799 on cars from 54-80K that I have routinely been seeing for so long now that I lost track of time are not brand dilution (and advertised brand dilution at that) then I don't know what is. Those deals cause poor resales (which we see and which also causes brand dilution) and make someone think twice about buying in the future - unless they intend to hold the car forever.
  • benzsterbenzster Member Posts: 152
    Hmmmmmm....now from the BMW group?
  • benzsterbenzster Member Posts: 152
    I realized I did not give all info on 05 S500 rotor and pad replacement.

    Labor Type: CG Labor Sold Hours: 2.00 Labor Sale Amount: 116.00
    │ Labor Parts Misc. Subtotal Tax Total
    │ 116.00 433.91 0.00 549.91 50.86 600.77

    ││Part Number Description Qty O.H. A.Q. Sale Amt
    ││000-989-08-07-10 CH Brake Fluid 1 0 0 16.90
    ││001-989-94-51 CH Brake Paste 1 41 40 3.41
    ││003-420-89-20 Brake Pads 1 4 4 121.52
    ││211-540-17-17 Brake Sensor 2 14 0 17.68 DP
    ││220-421-09-12 Brake Disc 2 5 5 274.40 DP

    Notice we don't charge misc shop fee or environmental fee B.S. for rags/ fluid disposal etc.
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Member Posts: 1,926
    What kind of car?

    Chrysler 300M Special
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Member Posts: 1,926
    ...
    Notice we don't charge misc shop fee or environmental fee B.S. for rags/ fluid disposal etc.

    After charging $600 for a brake job, you had better not! :(
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    I wouldn't know.
    No problems.
    12.5 years of BMW's.
    Only been in for oil, chocolate chip cookies and cocoa.
  • blckislandguyblckislandguy Member Posts: 1,150
    ljflx, I humbly disagree about the relatationship between thin margins and a dealer's propensity to prosititute a market place. IMHO strong brands have very tight controls on their dealers to include thin margins. (When a CAT dealer principal is in his mid 50's he must already have a CAT approved succession plan in place. Most Cummins Engine distributorships are owned by and/or resold to former Cummins exec's. No CAT or Cummins distributor would dare ship so much as 29 cent gasket out of their territory.)

    The M B lease deals you cite must be factory subvented if the dealer's gross is only 6 or 7 points at best. Clearly, on this thin margin he can't subsidize them. (On the other hand, I heard the -yes, there is only one- MB dealer principal in ME complain once that he wasn't as profitable as he would be if located in a large metro area because Mainers buy, not lease. He claims he would do far more gross on a MB lease.)
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    I think the Lexus dealer business model, dealer profits, success of the Lexus brand and the prices the dealerships sell for speak for themselves. It's a highly capitalistic and very successful approach. I've never seen tight constraints in competitive businesses work in my life and never expect that I will. They are business restrictive and the constraints are constantly violated. They can only work - without being violated (and by violated I mean allowed discounting by the parent mfr. as well as a dealer finding new limits) in a very low or non-competive enviroment. I guarantee you MB dealers were a lot more successful before the tight constraints than they are now.

    We'll just have to disagree on this one.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Lexus doen't have the constraints that MB has with the tight differential between dealer invoice and MSRP. IMO - this tight constraint is not representative of business realities and is about as meaningful as the 55mph speed limit. For all intent and purposes it is a total failure as are most restrictive business constraints in any line of business.

    I absolutely agree with this. Generally restrictive business practices such as presented by MB a number of years ago is counter-productive.

    TagMan
  • benzsterbenzster Member Posts: 152
    What kind of car?

    Chrysler 300M Special

    As stated: 05 S500
    That would be a large sedan manufactured by Daimler Chrysler marketed in the U.S. under the Mercedes-Benz marque. :P
    This is a thread about luxury cars remember.....hahahahhaha
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Member Posts: 1,926
    As stated: 05 S500
    That would be a large sedan manufactured by Daimler Chrysler marketed in the U.S. under the Mercedes-Benz marque.
    This is a thread about luxury cars remember.....hahahahhaha

    :confuse:

    Hmm... It appears you completely missed the point of my post. It was in reference to dealer "greed." Please see post #14114.
  • benzsterbenzster Member Posts: 152
    Yes, in 2000 with the launch of the S Class 220 Chassis there was a restructure in margin to 7.5% from the previous 13 (or so). This was an attempt to stabilize the pricing and force the dealers to concentrate on their local market hence negating the need for buyers to "shop" other markets for the lowest price. In fact, it was stated that we would go to a nonnegotiable price structure. This was not forced by MB but suggested.
  • benzsterbenzster Member Posts: 152
    :blush:
    Excuse me while I wipe the egg off my face. I am assuming you are stating the type of car mentioned in the satt radio post 14115/14117. My apologies for the unintentional flame.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Yes, in 2000 with the launch of the S Class 220 Chassis there was a restructure in margin to 7.5% from the previous 13 (or so). This was an attempt to stabilize the pricing and force the dealers to concentrate on their local market hence negating the need for buyers to "shop" other markets for the lowest price. In fact, it was stated that we would go to a nonnegotiable price structure. This was not forced by MB but suggested

    Notice how the manufacturer wanted to sell their cars by "suggesting"/imposing restrictive dealer margins that help the manufacturer maintain a competetive price structure, at the sacrifice of the dealer's profits and not their own.

    Further, any "suggestion" that buyers should be limited in their search for competitive prices is absurd.

    It's just plain too much tampering and interference by the mnanufacturer.

    It's one thing in this country to have price controls in effect with regards to some of our public utilites, but a luxury car is an entirely different situation.

    Mercedes can package that BS any way they want to, but the stink is clear. If Mercedes Benz has any serious concerns about their lofty prices, then they should not look to the dealer's margin for a solution. They need to take a long hard look in the mirror for the answer.

    TagMan
  • benzsterbenzster Member Posts: 152
    Agreed
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Here's a little blurb about MB sales in February.

    link title

    A sign of things to come?
  • garysandiegogarysandiego Member Posts: 2
    I just wanted to chime in with my great experience with my '06 XJ Super V8. I am not a die hard Jaguar fan, have not dreamed about owning a Jag all my life. I did not intend to buy a Jaguar this time around. But having done so, I am really happy. Here is my story.

    I had owned a two Cadillac Eldorado STS from 1995 through 2000. I enjoyed the sporty response and rapid acceleration. But when they announced that the model would be discontinued, I decided it would be a good time to step up in the world. At that time, the updated Lexus LS430 was introduced and it fit my budget. I owned it from 2001 through 2005. I had 68,000 problem-free, quiet, comfortable, mind-numbingly boring miles. It could go fairly fast, and with the "European Sport Package" could take corners fairly well, but it really didn't want to go fast or corner hard. As the lease came to an end, I resolved to get something more engaging. (Yes, a lease with 68,000 miles--what was I thinking?)

    I test drove everything that was supposed to be a sporty sedan. (The wife required that it be a sedan.) I drove everything except the BMW 7 Series because it is still not good looking and no one I know has mastered the I-Drive.

    I was especially looking forward to the Audi A8 because all the car magazines rave about it, and my wife had once owned a 2001 Audi A4 3.0 with quattro, and it was SO fun to drive. I was expecting a A4 with legroom. Nope. Ponderous feeling. Noticeably not quick. And after the Lexus, unacceptable cabin noise.

    Drove the '07 MB S550 (a few were around the town available to drive). The best Lexus Mercedes ever made. Certainly much faster and better mannered than any MB I have driven before. (I have never been an MB fan.) Also nice looking, inside and out. But it just felt heavy and uninvolving. Other than the speed, it was difficult to see why I would pay $25,000 more than for a new Lexus. (And this was just before Lexus announced the new LS460.) I also tried a CLS55, which was extremely fast although it always felt as though it was working hard. The ride was not that punishing on the behind. But while the interior fit and finish looked nice, it somehow felt down-market. And it truly is a 4 door coupe. I doubted my wife would consider it a sedan.

    The Maserati Quattroporte made me smile so much. I even found a way to snag three test drives! But each time after the adrenaline wore off, I couldn't help but wonder about reliability, fuel costs, insurance costs, repair costs and availability of qualified mechanics. And it is pricy. I sure hope Maserati can match others' reliability in the long run. This is car that deserves to be in the market.

    So I was forced to drive a Jaguar. (I literally didn't want to because when the new aluminum model came out a few years ago I had sat in one and couldn't find a comfortable seat position.) I drove a JX8. It was nice. The dealer wanted me to try a XJR. I declined because I assumed it would be rougher riding than I had become used to. He talked me into trying a Super V8. Golly, it made me smile. Literally. Stupid fast, willing to run at the slightest provocation, so light and responsive. Quiet even when risking tickets for unlawful exhibition of speed. Smooth ride. And the extra seat buttons on the Super V8 got me into a comfortable driving position. So this is what Jaguar fans have been talking about all these years? I'm joining.

    I have had the car for 8 weeks and have 2,000 miles on it. No problems, mechanically, but did get one speeding ticket. I'm being careful now.
  • sysweisyswei Member Posts: 1,804
    I wonder how that compares to the first month sales of the outgoing S, when it was brand new?
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Hopefully so!

    M
  • bdr127bdr127 Member Posts: 950
    I wonder how that compares to the first month sales of the outgoing S, when it was brand new?

    The 2000 S-Class was released (the 1st year of the previous body) in March 1999. The total MB units sold for that month was about 16k+, which is pretty close to the month of the 2007 S-Class release (Feb 2006) of 17k+. The 2000 S-Class sold 2403 units in its first month, while the 2007 sold 3360.

    Here's the link for reference: Autoworld.com
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    Remember you are looking at sales/shipments to dealers not sales to Consumers. Same thing with Lexus on the nearly 4K IS sales and the huge November figures they had. The latter was just sales to dealers in anticipation of the December to Remember sale. It's not yet actually purchased by consumers though I'm sure some of these shipments stated are spoken for. How great the next two months of sales/shipments to dealers turn out to be is the real telling point of whether the February unit sales are really moving to consumers or are getting stockpiled into dealer inventory. I think many people read mfr. sales stats as thinking those are units sold to the public when in fact you are looking at wholessale stats.
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    Can you substantiate that post, LJ?

    Why would anyone publicly post wholesale shipments, and release that to the news as sales/registrations? That's beyond deceptive, and shouldn't be hard to be caught on.

    Could be quite a public relations nightmare, plus impunes the credibility of the reporting medias involved.

    DrFill
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    Well - just think about it. Sales are reported on the first business day of the new month for the prior month. There is no way that each individual sale to a consumer - from every dealer in the US - is tabulated by an auto manufacturer, let alone verified for public release in real time or in such fast turn around time. Since this is public data that affects stock price there is no way anyone is releasing that type of data in this age of SEC scrutiny unless it comes from there own hardcore systems that they are 100% in control of. Just the infrastructure needed to support a real-time sales system at the dealer network would be a big undertaking. It would also be costly and error prone and hardly be trusted for reporting public data that is closely watched. It would only happen if it was reported on by a third party auditor and such a party would never release it that quickly. Clearly the figures are entirely based on each manufacturers production/delivery system of cars shipped from their factories to dealers and fleets. That is 100% verifiable by the mfr. Lastly was the S-class even available for sale on February 1st? Wouldn't Lexus December sales be a lot bigger than November if we were really seeing consumer sales given the big December promotion and all the holidays taken by businesses after December 15-20th. Pretty clear to me that you can always bank on Novemmber being a huge sales month for Lexus in advance of the December pronotion. BTW - I'm sick of the jingle but what a great marketing move that was. With all the days off people have after December 15th it's like Saturdays in Lexus dealerships almost every day in the latter half of December.

    The closest thing we have to real time public sales is the RL Polk registration data which is obtained from MV data of the states. I'm not sure they even get it from every state. We all know full well that government systems never report that quickly and most permanent registrations are delayed 1-2 weeks anyway. So at best that consumer data for February won't even be known until later in March. The Polk data is bought heavily by the auto mfs as that data enables them to make factory planning and production decisions as it shows what dealer inventory is moving and in what zipcodes.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    I'm confused, are you the same "callmedrfill" from before?

    M
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    I like your logic . . . I like it a lot . . . but I would still like to know definatively the process for obtaining and reporting the sales data.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Actually he is right. There is no way every carmaker can get these numbers from all their dealers, process them and have them ready for their press releases the day after the month ends. This is the same reason why Ford is protesting that Chevy was the bestselling brand last year. Chevy made their claims based on cars they delivered to their dealers, but Ford went back and requested the actual number of cars registered and found out that they "sold" more cars to people than Chevy delivered to their dealers, or something like that.

    In an article about Chrylser the clarification on the sales reporting process is given. A quote:

    "Chrysler and other automakers record sales and revenues after vehicles are shipped to dealers rather than when they are purchased by a customer."

    M
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    ljflx is also right about watching the next months to see whether or not the vehicles have actually been selling or whether or not the vehicles are merely building up in dealer's inventories.

    BTW, the link was informative. Thanks.

    TagMan
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Well if various mesg boards (besides edmunds) are any indication, the S-Class isn't sitting in many dealers's inventories anywhere. The are quite a vew posts on other boards about people getting angry about having to wait for the new S. The dealers around here certainly don't have any, not sure about the larger New York area, Florida and Cali markets.

    M
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    Tagman - I'd expect the S to do well in the next 6 months. It's pretty standalone out there as the newest and greatest thing. The big issue vs the last re-design is that it has a lot less lead-time (7.5 months vs 18 months) on the LS which is aiming higher and higher into its range. Does the LS crimp its sales or do the two go off and hide from everyone else like two horses running away from the field. I'd expect the latter.
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    If I'm MB and have what I think is a hot car and another hot car is on my tail I'd ship a lot of units in the first 6 months. The strategy should be to sell a lot of cars at the highest price while they can and then loosen the pricing in the months before the competitive car is released. Max out pricing while you have the thunder and then loosen it up as the competition causes you to share that thunder. It would lessen some of the pent up demand for the LS if they play it right. There's no time to play the supply and demand games to drive prices sky high this time around. So the normal games that allow dealers to max out profits with over-sticker charges on low supply for any lengthly time just isn't there this go round. MB has to play the game for itself completely this time. Move big volumes to the dealers, pressure them to sell the volume and keep big shipments coming. That's the way I'd play it if I were them. What do you think Tagman?
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    First, this is the one, and only DrFill! Version 2.0!

    New and improved for 2006, with better graphics, faster download times, and 20% fewer calories than Splenda!

    Now, this thing with the sale figures. It may be true. Sales are figured based on dealer purchases, not customer purchases. All I know is most loans, in 2006, are actually bought, or approved, by banks before the customer leaves with the car, making it relatively simple to count sales for a dealership per day, per week, and so on, with dealer-connecting computer programs, of which, regional offices and bookkeepers can download sales information from dealers on a daily basis, then factor in any percentage of buybacks or false sales for any given period.

    Let's say not all of your 3000 dealers (for Ford, for example) aren't on the same computer system. Let's say 500 are off the system, don't have computers, write all their daily sales on cocktail napkins. Is it that hard to have the bookkeeper report their sales for the month to the regional office by Noon on the first? Is that difficult? My dealership knows how many cars they sold last month on the 1st. If you can count cars sold, daily, you can certainly add those days together for a monthly total, right?

    Then the six regional offices report to the national office their findings, then you add the figures from the six offices, write the press release, proofread it, and release it for the afternoon of the 1st. Far from brain surgery!

    I don't see it as that difficult, provided a dealerships bookkeeper can count 15-20-30 sales a day, consistently, and load that into computer software, or call it in to another bookkeeper.

    If the automakers can't do that, I can show them how.

    For a small fee,of course. ;)

    DrFill
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    So I guess the real question is how do we know which method each automaker uses to report sales?

    M
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    Can I pat myself on the back now?

    Maybe it's all distributor-to-dealer, but I wouldn't do it that way. It's at best misleading, and couldn't be less accurate.

    What happens when you have a 2005 that just doesn't sell? It sits on the lot all year? How do you count that? You haven't seen an add for a new car that one model year old? Wouldn't that screw up your books?

    My problem is, I'm too simple-mided! :mad:

    Life is as easy as you make it. :)

    DrFill
  • 610looper610looper Member Posts: 20
    How do I answer this??? I am happy that your engagement with the Jag Super V8 is blissfull. Congradulations...

    You compared your 2001 LS430 w/a European Sport Package to a 2006 A8 and found it ponderous, slow and to have an unacceptable cabin noise level.

    The 2007 S550 was heavy and uninvolving and the CLS55 which is supercharged btw, always felt as if it were working hard, this compared to a 2001 LS430?

    The Maserati, which is 100g's straight out the gate, you're worried about it's "reliability, fuel costs, insurance costs, repair costs and availability of qualified mechanics. And it is pricy."

    So you ended up with a Jag Super V8, but you don't tell us how it compares to the 2001 LS430...

    Why didn't you just buy another LS 430? GS430? When it comes to handling, speed, high performance luxury sedans, nobody mentions Lexus, even with the new IS350 automatic or even Jag for that matter, heck not even Cadillac with the V series... It's the 3 Germans that are the high performance luxury kings still...
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Member Posts: 1,926
    ... When it comes to handling, speed, high performance luxury sedans, nobody mentions Lexus, even with the new IS350 automatic or even Jag for that matter, heck not even Cadillac with the V series... It's the 3 Germans that are the high performance luxury kings still...

    It's the Germans that get all the good press. That doesn't mean that the other cars aren't good. Cadillac's V-series performs quite well. And Lexus is Lexus...
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    Your system will neer happen. There's no financial need at the auto mfr level and they're not about to put in a system that tracks real-time retail sales data for the knowledge of a bunch of auto enthusiasts. In fact what you want done opens up a system for mfrs to overpay dealers who would "purposely" overstate their retail sales so that they get added incentive monies from the mfrs. As it is the RL Polk data is badly needed by auto mfrs for many reasons and one of them is to audit dealers real sales with checks of the Vins to the registratin data that Polk reports on. That same data is bought by auto analysts everywhere at the brokerage houses to track the health of the industry.

    Trust me on this - I know the information industry inside out.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    What do you think Tagman?

    lj, I think the S-Class selling price over the next months will be determined more by supply and demand than by any strategy. Sure MB will want to sell as many as possible. That's typically the case anyway.

    With regards to the margins, MB doesn't generally have massive margins to begin with any more, and any premiums OR discounts will be a matter of . . . once again . . . supply and demand. Once the new LS emerges onto the scene, the supply and demand for the S-Class is likely to be affected, but by how much is to be seen. If the new LS diminishes the demand for the S-Class then the prices on the S-Class will naturally have to ease.

    The flip side to this is that when the new LS first hits, pricing might be rather lofty in the beginning, also due to supply and demand, and those tight prices on the LS could potentially send a few folks over to the MB camp.

    lj, I continue to like and appreciate your intuitive business sense.

    Regards,
    TagMan
  • sv7887sv7887 Member Posts: 351
    Hi All,
    I saw the S Class in person yesterday. It looks much better in person than in pictures. They had a nice blue S550 in the showroom. The wheel fenders don't look so obvious in person. The inside was nice, but not breathtaking...I didn't like the iDrive knob in the center though..They had a bunch of leftover S Class from 2006 as well. Those cars were much better looking..

    This all has me wondering..Do you think I would be able to get a good deal on the leftover S Classes? Do you think the build quality of the last run would be better than what we've seen in the past?

    -Sam
Sign In or Register to comment.

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles