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High End Luxury Cars

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Comments

  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Member Posts: 1,926
    Wow. We are such a lazy country. You live less than a mile from work and actually drive to it? :sick:
  • benzsterbenzster Member Posts: 152
    Sometimes I do. That walk home and back for lunch makes for 4 miles a day. We reach triple digits here and in bus. cas. dress attire......
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Except for 2 of them, Mandissa and Elliot, IMO, they are an extremely sorry group of finalists.

    There is no way that Pickler gal should still be left and Lisa Tucker gets canned!

    And if I hear one more "amazing" out of Abdul!!
    Can't she express herself without always resorting to that word?
    I thought they were going to dump her and I see she just signed a new multi-year contract! :(
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    I thought they were going to dump her and I see she just signed a new multi-year contract!

    Amazing!

    T
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,327
    Of all the nerve. I'll have you know that Pickler is one of my favorites!! I like 'em kind of dumb!

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • blkhemiblkhemi Member Posts: 1,717
    I can't imagine driving on today's roads without navigation. I've got a sense of complacency now since 2001 when I purchased my very first navi-equipped car (S500).

    The value bestowed in this technology is worth it's asking price. Even some cars like my '06 A8 W-12 have the system as standard equipment. I like the fact that every carmaker is in the rush to improve nav systems, may it be picture clarity, road maps, street signs, et al. It keeps everything fresh.

    And now, the race is on to eliminate the need for nav systems to incorporate HVAC/audio controls, even though the ever-present i-Drive/MMI/COMAND knob controlled variants are on the rise. And the technology is trickling down from the super-luxury cars of 5-6 years ago to Mazda 3's($16k car), VW Jetta's($20k), and upcoming Dodge Caliber to name a few. The technology as grown so fast and fierce that GM has announced that it will offer it as an option along with Onstar on every model it sells by 2010. I guess this is to offset the worries from the government earlier this week when they rolled out the new CAFE standards, with the H1,H2, and 2500 Surburban having to be included in the average mpg test for the first time ever.

    Back to my point, navigation helps out in not having a fight with your better half because we are to "man" to stop and ask for directions. It also is a beneficial safety component in that you don't have to worry about getting lost somewhere you don't have clue of where it is.

    Summation: Navigation- It's a life saver.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    I don't know. That innocent country cutsie stuff is wearing kind of thin with me.
    It seems you are far from alone-Ryan said she has a pretty big fan base.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Agree on the NAV, my wife's RX and my LS and XK all have it. One of the reasons I bought an XKR was because the NAV system is standard on the R, and I wouldnt have to hunt for an XK8 with the option. The Jag's system isnt nearly as comprehensive as the Lexus (technically Acura was first with NAV in the RL back in '96, but IMO Lexus does it better than everyone else) but it gets the Job done when I need it to.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    "Amazing!"

    At least you have demonstrated you have quite a few other words in your arsenal.
    With Paula, I'm not so sure! :)

    A reviewer I follow who is a real handling snob and has put down Hondas, Toyotas and Lexi for years recently reviewed the 2007 Camry and mildly raved about the noticeable improvement in handling.
    I don't think it too much of a stretch, therefore, for one to expect to see a similar improvement in handling for the new LS.
  • blckislandguyblckislandguy Member Posts: 1,150
    ljflx, you're a savvy guy and I think I'll stand corrected that they don't sell too many S Classes in Glenns Falls. However, I think you might be surprised at the net worth-- even leaving primary residence aside-- and perhaps relatively low W2s of the concrete block plant/warehouse distributor, etc. He/she knows that it makes little sense to run the W2 above the minimum you need to make the max SSI. (Maybe 93K or so?). The rest you take out in rent (most business owners figure out that the easiest way to make money in business is to have the company buy them a building), fringes, leased cars, etc. etc. Most closely held businesses do not show a profit. Ever.
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,327
    Actually it is wearing thin with me too. No one can be that dumb. I think it is an act.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Well I'm convinced that Paula Abdul is high every night. I mean she claps her hands over her head like a seal or something and she gets lost in mid-sentence and she really looks glazed most of the time. They aren't going to say anything about it until after the season ends, but I bet you this summer it comes about her obvious drug problem.

    I also have no doubts anymore as to whether or not she messed around with the Corey dude (who just got kicked off the Surreal Life too due to a lack of talent) from a few seasons back. She was basically going down the same path with Ace the other night.

    M
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    I'm sure that the handling of the '07 LS460 will be greatly improved. Also interesting is a rumor that Lexus is actually paying attetion to all of the complaints about VDIM, and will make the process of shutting it down much easier than the current multi-step service code for '07 cars.

    Here's a video of what the IS350 can do with VDIM turned off: http://www.autospies.com/article/index.asp?articleId=6841&categoryId=23
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    All true and yet they just signed her up again for 3 years!
    Wonder what she drives?

    Maybe that's why Ace has lost his fan base.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Look at some of the comments after the video-centering on the fact that the 330i is better around a racing track than the IS.
    While it is probably true, why do many folks keep dwelling on such an unrealistic assessment of these vehicles?
    When pushed to the limits, the IS has some understeer.
    Most folks would probably never know.

    One of my neighbors just got a white SC430. Now there's a looker! Wow!
    If that isn't the best looking Lexus out there, I must not be paying attention.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    C'mon folks - you know this is not the place...
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    I generally make it a point to never actually read the comments on autospies. While the articles are interesting, the posts are hardly the kind of quality found around here. Not surprisingly the discussion quickly degenerated into a "lexus stinks, you stink lexus rules" etc.

    "One of my neighbors just got a white SC430. Now there's a looker! Wow! If that isn't the best looking Lexus out there, I must not be paying attention."

    Ok, you lost me on that one. In my opinion, the SC430 is the worst looking Lexus out there, from its slab sided, tubby profile to its pizza dish wheels, which are made even worse by the available pseudo five-spoke plastic bit that they introduced I believe for '05. While they did a great job with the interior (mostly by liberally copying the XK8) I thought the exterior was a huge letdown compared to the SC400, and the car is about as much fun to drive as an ES330. I hope who ever thought this was a good design no longer has a job at Lexus.

    image
    image
  • bdr127bdr127 Member Posts: 950
    Both of those wheels are hideous, IMO. :surprise:
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    I don’t know why anyone would spend $65K on an SC430 when you could get a real sports car for that money. And if luxury is what one wants, I would spend it on a real luxury sedan, coupe or convertible. The car is totally deprived IMO, kind of like an O’Doul’s beer, although I think it has a certain retro elegance to the styling.

    I think it’s somewhat of a cult car; you sure do see plenty of them around. What kind of cult? I don’t know, probably the same cult that feels a little too good about knowing how to fold the WSJ while reading it, and orders banana daiquiris at the 19th hole while discussing their stocks for all the world to hear.

    Lexusguy, what are you doing with your Jag… keeping it, moving on, undecided?
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    I always felt the SC430 was an "interesting" car, I didn't really like or dislike it just kinda "interesting". It is more a personal luxury car than a GT IMO, more of a 2-door LS430 with a folding hard top.

    M
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    The only thing that the SC really has going for it is that it costs $65K. If it had a price tag like the XKR, 650, or SL500, I think sales would be zilch. Merc is basically correct, you get a 2-door LS with a trick top. Though I would argue that the LS is actually more entertaining to drive, and has a more comfortable ride, especially when compared to those awful run-flats that were on the initial SC430s.

    I still have the Jag. Its got about 55K miles on it, but it has held up surprisingly well, and I dont see any reason to trade for one of the newer MYs, since nothing about the car really changed. I flirted with the idea of a Carrera S Cabrio, but I think I'm just going to wait and buy an '07 XK8 perhaps in '09. (That is unless Lexus knocks my socks off with the SC460) If there are any major issues I'll probably just sell and wait, but thusfar its been a very reliable Jaguar.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    In my opinion, the SC430 is the worst looking Lexus out there

    I totally agree with you on this, Lexusguy.

    The Lexus SC430 is a design tragedy, and it's a major shame to the marque, because this is usually the model niche where a marque makes its very best sporting statement. The Mercedes SL and the Jaguar XK are among the very best examples of this.

    Lexus could have and should have done better, IMO.

    TagMan
  • Karen_SKaren_S Member Posts: 5,092
    A national newspaper is looking to interview consumers who have had to replace a car key, which ended up costing over $200 or $300. Please send an e-mail to ctalati@edmunds.com no later than Monday, April 2, 2006 containing your daytime contact information, the cost to replace your key along with the make and model your vehicle.

    Thanks,
    Chintan Talati
    Corporate Communications
    Edmunds.com
  • blkhemiblkhemi Member Posts: 1,717
    "because this is usually the model niche where a marque makes its very best sporting statement. The Mercedes SL and the Jaguar XK are among the very best examples of this."

    I have too agree on this with you, however when it comes to sporting, lets not leave out the edgy but tasteful/unique Cadillac XLR or the uber-sport 911, all of the SC's direct comp.

    IMO, Lexus should have stayed at the drawing board a lot longer as this is one of the brands most tasteless and uninspiring models to date, if not the only one. I figure Lexus became tiresome of the public and critics calling their styling "conservative" or "bland/vanilla" and tried to break out of the box only to fail miserably.

    Were not asking Lexus to create an Aston Martin, but please give the next gen SC a more forgiving and inspiring design. Maybe the L-Finesse styling will work out best with this car like the Art and Science styling has done so on the XLR.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    I dont think the XLR is the best example of Cadillac's design language.. but then again I really dont like Cadillac's design language at all in any of their recent cars. I dont think I'm the only one that isn't impressed with the car though, as its basically been a flop. The SL handily outsells it, despite costing some $15K+ more. I have no idea how Cadillac thought they could get away with an interior that cheap on a car with a $75K sticker.
  • mph100mph100 Member Posts: 3
    I heard that competition from MB and Lexus for 2007 has or is going to cause BMW to release its 7 series early, and that the 2007 will have some enhancements like night visions. Does anyone have any info on the 2007 BMW 750LI release and/or order dates? Thanks in advance.
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    image

    I like the Cadillac design language, but all of their executions are poor IMO. They nailed it with Cien but couldn’t keep it at that level with the production cars which are poorly proportioned and shy of such language.

    One thing about Cadillac, they seem to have achieved their objective of breaking out of the old fogy mold. Too bad Cien or a similar vehicle never made it to market. I think it would have been hot and is one of the best auto designs ever. The “aggressive” looks of BMWs are a joke by comparison. Cien is what I call aggressive.

    BMW was aggressive with one particular concept (among others), but that too didn’t make it to market. In my opinion it was ugly, but still managed a language that I thought was fairly sophisticated. Anyone know which car I’m talking about? Hint: it is the vehicle that introduced “flame surfacing” about six years ago.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    I dont think the XLR is the best example of Cadillac's design language.

    Lexusguy, once again I agree with you. Designman's pic would have been better for Caddy, IMO, although not a slam dunk.

    My big concern about Cadillac is where do they go from here . . . can they keep it alive? The XLR shows me that they may not fully understand what they have had thus far.

    TagMan
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    My sources tell me the incredible 2007 BMW 750 Li will be released this June.
    We'll see.
  • blkhemiblkhemi Member Posts: 1,717
    I'm not a huge fan of the XLR myself, but I think it is a huge departure from the norm, in a good way, much unlike that of the bulbous SC. To say it's a flop, I wouldn't go that far, altho the SL does sell more than it does. HOWEVER, the GM/Caddy brass did mention at the start of the XLR's production that it will remain a "low volume" car, and it's expected depreciation rate is slightly above average.

    The interior is not cheap looking, in fact the current XK has a much more drab interior than it does, despite the "wood veneers". Have you actually gone over the interior and looked at it closely? I say this as there are some marques with hugely more undeserving interiors that cost twice it's "$75k sticker". I am a interior fanatic, as this is the place you have to be in order to operate the vehicle. The XLR has a very nice ambience to it that is lacking in a lot of other cars. And to boot, the XLR-v($100k) is an absolute value over the overpriced SL55($125k)

    I am in no way taking up for the XLR, as I don't typically like American cars (300C, Corvette Z06 withholding), but I believe if someone is going to give a description of a car, it needs to be truthful and meaningful. THe XLR is a key player that gets thrown out like last night's trash because it has a wreath and crest on the hood instead of the mainstream 5 others. That's truthful.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    I've not just looked at it closely, but sat in the car on two occasions, once at the NYAS, and once at a Caddy dealer. In both cases, I would say the interior is good enough to qualify for the CTS. I wouldnt pay more than $40K for it, let alone $75K. Also, when I pulled the door shut in the XLR, it made a hollow sound that reminded me of a Kia. There's just no way that this:
    http://i19.ebayimg.com/04/i/06/8b/1f/62_3.JPG
    http://i9.ebayimg.com/02/i/06/82/fa/de_3.JPG

    Is higher quality than this. Considering that the Jag's interior design is 10 years old, I'd say it looks quite good.
    http://photos.ebizautos.com/3620/866682_17.jpg
    http://photos.ebizautos.com/3620/866682_28.jpg
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Considering that the Jag's interior design is 10 years old, I'd say it looks quite good.

    No doubt about it. Credit where credit's due. The Jag's interior design concept may be a little old in the tooth, but it is incredibly well mastered and timeless.

    TagMan
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    image

    I guess I referred to the XCoupe as being sophisticated because of the use of asymmetry and it reminds me of a Picasso, specifically Le Demoiselles d'Avignon . But wow, this thing is ugly. It also looks like a Cabbage Patch doll. Well we didn’t get the XCoupe, but we got the Z4 and the other pile of styling disasters.
  • esfesf Member Posts: 1,020
    That wouldn't make sense in the least- the 7 Series was updated just last year!

    Are you talking about another update, a new model, or just a complete redesign?

    Also, it's only been out since 2002. BMW isn't known for four-year life cycles.

    I hope that the new A8 is released in one to two years- I can't wait to see it with D'Silva's sexy new design language. (Think Nuvolari concept, LeMans, Pikes Peak)
  • esfesf Member Posts: 1,020
    While the articles are interesting, the posts are hardly the kind of quality found around here.

    I completely agree with you! I'm happy to say that autospies does not accept my password, so I can't post there. I scan what those people are saying, and it's just bias, after bias, after bias.

    I think that, although awkward looking, the SC430's design ages well. I see a couple here and there, and every time I see it it still looks fresh. However, with the new "L-Finesse" designs, Lexus should be able to make it look edgier (and better), like the new IS and GS.

    (New ES350 is a major disappointment- for some reason I think the interior is the most boring Lexus interior to date)

    At least it's cheap (relatively).

    ;)
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    I never said it was a re-design.
    I'm saying from people I have talked to at BMW, the 2007 750 Li may be released in June.
    (As I was writing this, someone informed me that orders will be taken in September for October delivery, but who knows? It wouldn't be the first time a dealer may be misinforming a potential buyer.)
    Perhaps my use of the word "incredible" to describe the 7 series led you to this assumption.
    You'll have to excuse me, because speaking as a man of truth, I must wax ecstatic about BMW vehicles. It just comes naturally to me.

    As for the Lexus SC430, I saw it for a fraction of a second as I was passing by my neighbor's house.
    It turned my head.
    I'm sure if I looked at it long enough, I would find things to criticize.
    I have yet to find any vehicle that I am 100% in agreement with, style-wise, not even my sleek, aggressive, sexy 545 (although my 1969 Cougar with those sequentially-blinking tail-lights came close).
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    "(New ES350 is a major disappointment- for some reason I think the interior is the most boring Lexus interior to date)"

    Now thats interesting, because the ES350 follows the same L-Finesse interior design theme that started with the GS, IS, and now the LS and ES. While there's significantly less wood trim in the car compared to the previous ES300\330, I think the overall design is much more modern and generally more attractive.

    Also, the way Lexus integrated the audio\NAV controls in the previous car seemed like a last-minute hack job (its basically a big hole in the middle of the dash), very unlike their usually expertly done center stack layouts. The new car is 1000% superior in that regard.

    The old:
    http://www.autospies.com/images/uploads/medium/2005_ES330_21.jpg?undefined

    The new:
    http://shows.autospies.com/gallery/AS/es350-interior-vegas-lg/ee.jpg?undefined
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    I've never been an ES fan but I also find the new ES to be a bolder and a much better looking design from any of the past cars. The wood trim on the old car was too much LS-like and almost seemed out of place. Agree with Lexusguy that the nav is now a seamless fit as oposed to an awkward looking postage stamp paste on in the past model. Overall to me the car is a big improvement from the old design.
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    :cry:

    But Merc nails a Lexus accessment (For once :P )! Good Job!

    It is a LS 2-door, with a trick top, and some extra bling inside.

    A clear success, in selling over 35000 in less than 3 years, and is still around while the XLR, quietly, quickly, is carried into Retirement Village, on a stretcher of GM incentives.

    Can't drive as poorly as everyone says, or else it wouldn't sell so much. People who jump on it's ride haven't driven it, period.

    I'm pretty sure it's against Corporate Policy for Lexus to produce a car without a
    silken ride on the majority of US roads.

    I'm expecting a more chiseled face when it is redesigned for '09. Sport pkg., por favor?

    The IS is better looking (by a margin) than the 3, but is still behind as a sports sedan (by a margin).

    The ES face doesn't work for me, but the design language is much crisper, and more masculine, if nothing else.

    And the LS takes a nice step forward, ahead of My Humps S-Class (eyesore the new commercial, they look like saddlebags in Silver!).

    Maybe it's like a Wild West motif? No?

    DrFill
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    Lexus IS passes 5k units a month for the first time., but still well behind the 3, which runs around 9k a month, model for model.

    Rav4 and Sienna are outselling CR-V and Odyssey, YTD.

    DrFill
  • stevekilburnstevekilburn Member Posts: 359
    I dont think Lexus should celebrate just yet. They might be excited at 5K/month, but these are low margin models.

    Lexus does not have product with 70K+ MSRP which can provide high margin bliss.

    Lexus is content to be a high volume, low margin luxury player. May be they find happiness and deep satisfaction with low margins and hate high-margin as it might result in too much happiness and uncontrollable emotional surge leading to acid reflux and heart attack.
  • rayngrayng Member Posts: 70
    IMHO, Toyota's pricing strategy is appropriate for the Lexus brand. As a much younger marque without much pedigree or tradition, a high-margin, low-volume pricing structure would simply not work. What does work is building a great car for a reasonable price. Overcharging for the sake of doing so only works on occassion for established marques with a great deal of racing pedigree producing very low volume automobiles.

    BTW, Lexus just set a new monthly sales record.
    http://autospies.com/article/index.asp?articleId=6945&categoryId=9

    So I think Lexus is doing pretty well--quite "content to be a high volume, low margin luxury player." ;)
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    Unless you have some new information, they have the highest volume in the US, and have more operating income than the Big 3 combined, so these stones you hold are, at best, miscast.

    And with the LS600h, they won't have any problems selling them, for sticker! And a V10 sportscar is coming.

    Toyota could buy, and sell, any maker, probably twice.

    Why don't you pick a genuine target, like the French, Paula Abdul, or Les Moonves?

    DrFill
  • stevekilburnstevekilburn Member Posts: 359
    There are no stones, only love and more love.

    Or may be stones made of wool.

    French are imploding, Paula is growing old/messy, les moonves, forget that.

    Lexus has high volume passion, not high margin.

    Mercedes: High margin, high volume Love.
    Lexus: low margin, high volume Love.

    Lexus does not want high-margin bliss, thats my reading!
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Toyota may not make money on a per-car basis like Porsche does, but who cares? In terms of pure net profit, Toyota rakes in $3+B a quarter, more than many automakers make all year. How profitable was the "high-margin" M-B last year?
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    Do you have any clue about how low a build cost Lexus has vs its competition? You are so off base on this that its hard to even comment back to. Lexus is the exact opposite of what you think. They are low volume and high - in fact very high - margin. Do some research before posting absurd comments. Attack Lexus on style and sport if you want to as that has some merit but on the business side attacking Toyota and Lexus is like being boastful on the Titanic - as it was sinking.

    Now if you want to visit the worst lux business in the US then talk Audi - low volume and low margin.
  • manegimanegi Member Posts: 110
    At an analyst meeting last month, Katsuaki Watanabe, the CEO of Toyota, sounded apologetic for the "low profitabilty" due to "huge investment in new technologies and production capacity" - He said that once this peaks in the next one two years, the margins will improve.

    So current profitability of Toyota is not the internal target - It is way higher.
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    They are expensing rather than capitalizing the new R&D fuel technology. This has been known for a long time now and it has nothing to do with margin per car. There are probably a number of reasons for this decision including conservative accounting but possibly also PR. The latter is simple - Toyota's $13bln of profitablility would be around $17-18 bln if you adjust for these expenses. What does the rest of the industry that is profitable earn - maybe half of that. Sometimes it's good PR to make yourself underperform your real numbers. It's an easy adjustment for Wall street as the multiple goes up to compensate for the conservative accounting. On top of that your future profitability is greatly improved as you have little depreciation of the new technology.
  • stevekilburnstevekilburn Member Posts: 359
    Please dont burn with anger. Let me re-phrase. If Lexus prices its products head-to-head with mercedes and keeps a low build cost like you said then it will make better business sense.
    No one wants to attack Lexus/Toyota. We all want to Love.

    Lexus is in line with what I think, not opposite. Because, we both love margins. Only problem is Lexus needs to get more ambitious than just cutting costs and improving quality.

    They should shun cut-rate pricing and compete head-to-head with Sultans of Sindelfingen.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    A clear success (the SC), in selling over 35000 in less than 3 years, and is still around while the XLR, quietly, quickly, is carried into Retirement Village, on a stretcher of GM incentives.

    Interesting that you would compare to the XLR of all things. I guess if you compare a loser to a bigger loser it makes the first loser look good? ;)

    The IS is better looking (by a margin) than the 3

    In your dreams. The IS looks decent, but, sorry, it's no 3. No way.

    TagMan
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