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High End Luxury Cars

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Comments

  • bdr127bdr127 Member Posts: 950
    The one DNA element the A8 has is quattro. In fact it's been the Audi calling card across the board

    Exactly... oac: How could you not associate Audi with AWD? That is their calling card, no question. AWD for the A8, in particular, absolutely is what sets itself apart from its competition.
  • benzsterbenzster Member Posts: 152
    Mercedes better have an answer for the 600h! That could be 10-12k sales a year, by itself. Those aren't gonna come from Cadillac, or BMW, Merc.

    How about the tri turbo MB diesel? That is if you wanted a safer, better handling, more stylish, vehicle with better gas mileage and more power?
    Oh wait, we already have an E320 with 369 fpt at 1800 rpm, 0-60 in 6.6sec, and range of over 700 miles on a tank of fuel. 27/37 mpg. Is the point of the Lexus vehicle mileage?
  • volvomaxvolvomax Member Posts: 5,238
    Actually I do love cars.
    That wasn't the question. The question was what makes a car a winner or a loser.
    I think the A8 is a good looking car, better looking than the Lexus or the bimmer. I really liked the previous body A8 also.
    However, when you are spending your own money, the smart decision is usually the best one. i like the A8, but wouldn't buy one new because of the depreciation.
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    Good luck selling diesels here.
  • benzsterbenzster Member Posts: 152
    Here meaning US or the area in which you reside?
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    Both.
  • benzsterbenzster Member Posts: 152
    I understand your point. I have been a diesel geek for a while. It is still an outstanding auto. Availability and cleanliness of dispensing are always a drawback. The torque and engine noise are leaps ahead of vehicles of the past. There will always be a market for that technology but it seems that the segment will always be small. Our light truck segment will most likely benefit from the new availability the most.
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    I understand your point also.

    I used to work in the liquor industry a long time ago. It's always been the rule that the first to market in that business was the success. There were countless second generation liquors that were better than the ones that were successfully introduced. Can't tell you how many amaretto's I've tasted that blew away Amaretto di Sarona. In a testing 10 out of 10 people would pick Di Sarona behind a new intro in taste and smoothness. It was that way in just about every case of a new entrant. But put them on the shelves of stores and the new entrant just sat there. So it is with diesel - it'll just never get started here and it's so hard to invest in a technology that has been rejected. Hybrids though are a natural and seamless extension of gas.
  • sysweisyswei Member Posts: 1,804
    cleanliness of dispensing are always a drawback

    I've wondered why my local service station has "diesel mitts" available at the diesel pump. Why is pumping diesel so different from pumping gasoline?
  • bdr127bdr127 Member Posts: 950
    I've wondered why my local service station has "diesel mitts" available at the diesel pump. Why is pumping diesel so different from pumping gasoline?

    A lot of people find the odor far more offensive than gasoline... I'm sure you've gotten some gasoline on your hands before? Imagine if that was diesel and smelled a lot worse...
  • benzsterbenzster Member Posts: 152
    It STINKS!
    Diesel is less refined and therefore oilier. Plus with the sulfur content, it just smells and is hard to wash off your hands.
    I have yet to see mitts. Nice touch.
  • oacoac Member Posts: 1,594
    How about the tri turbo MB diesel? That is if you wanted a safer, better handling, more stylish, vehicle with better gas mileage and more power?
    Oh wait, we already have an E320 with 369 fpt at 1800 rpm, 0-60 in 6.6sec, and range of over 700 miles on a tank of fuel. 27/37 mpg. Is the point of the Lexus vehicle mileage?


    The point of the LS600h is NOT just about vehicle mileage. Its the entire package - a LWB, Hybrid, AWD, car with a V12-like performance, at a v6-like fuel efficiency, straight-line performance will be sub-5s 0-60, with a top speed exceeding 150mph. Of course, priced at just under $100K, it will be cheaper than the targeted competition (S600) by another $10-15K. This car then gives Lexus a true high-end luxury sedan that moves the "brand" further upstream into the exclusive and rarefied HELM range - the Bentleys, Maybach, S600, etc... club. That is what the LS600h provides for the Lexus brand - at least, that's my reading of it.
  • volvomaxvolvomax Member Posts: 5,238
    More importantly, it gives the Lexus owner the appearance of being environmentally conscious.
    "Look, I drive a hybrid".
  • oacoac Member Posts: 1,594
    Exactly... oac: How could you not associate Audi with AWD? That is their calling card, no question. AWD for the A8, in particular, absolutely is what sets itself apart from its competition.

    Reason is as provided by ljflx... AWD is less important to more than 50% of the buying public here in the US. I live in So Cal and have a 4WD SUV for those few times of inclement weather... Subaru has had AWD like forever, that is their calling card as well...

    Merc says that people are noticing and praising Audi for its interior quality and technology innovations. I'd like to see the sampling of the buying public that agrees with that. Edmunds is a very small, narrow, viewpoint of the whole market. Most of us are car junkies.... The real world buyers are nothing like us... So I suspect Audi's interior quality and technology hasn't helped it much, but with the VW albatross on Audi's neck, little wonder it has had problem gaining traction (no pun intended) here in the NA market. It may well be too late for Audi to gain any respect, unless Lexus stumbles badly, and Acura and Infiniti fall off the face of the earth. Audi, totally overshadowed by its higher brand German counterparts...
  • blkhemiblkhemi Member Posts: 1,717
    The A8, with no DNA or calliing card?

    HMMM? Let's see. The A8 has the best finished interior in it's class hands down and standard(across the line) AWD, not just because BMW and M-B are knocking on the door of AWD. Those are just a few of the perks that separates itself from the bigger volume cars.

    True, the Audi/VW connection couldn't be worse, for it's U.S. line-up anyway. VW's as of late quality and reliabilty and customer service has slipped way down. But we can't use this as an excuse.

    For example, take a look at Ford. With all of the troubling problems in Dearborn, one would think that the PAG would be in serious limbo. Not so the case, in fact LR keeps breaking M-2-M sales records, and Volvo has so many new products in the pipeline, especially the awesome new C70 Convertible that it seems that these companies know how to separate themselves from the gruesome NA front.

    But that's not to say that all of the VW-linked brands are toast. Lambo is once again having fantastic year, and need I even say Bentley, with a 3 year wait for Flying Spurs and still 1 year wait for Conti GT's and convertible on the way.

    Audi needs a new direction, a fresh breath of air. It may be coming sooner than we know. The R8 sports coupe is sure to spark some desire and the newly released Q5/Q7 will at least drag more suburban families in than before with only the allroad and A6 Avant to offer as utility vehicles before.

    They're on the right track, let's not write them off just yet.
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    It was brand new, with paper tags. Anthracite color. I drove next to it for a good stretch. Male driver.

    This is the best facelift Lexus has done since the '98 LS!

    Clear lens for the headlights. More chrome in the grille, with new bars. New taillights. Bright chrome exhaust finishers.

    That's a nice car! Maybe not SL-nice, but not a "Hard Sell" either! The roll bars is an oversight, doh. :blush:

    DrFill
  • volvomaxvolvomax Member Posts: 5,238
    Audi has come a long way since the late 80's when they almost died in the US.

    What has hurt Audi is the lack of a calling card or a trait that the public can identify with.
    Brand image is a powerful thing in this market. Lexus has their relentless pursuit of perfection, BMW has the ultimate driving machine schtick and M-B has a century of engineering. Volvo has safety etc.
    That isn't to say that there aren't cars out there as safe as Volvo, or as well built as Lexus or as "ultimate" as BMW, but luxury buyers already has pre-concieved notions that automakers strive to reinforce.
    Sadly, Audi really doesn't have any such preconcieved notions.
    Most people aren't aware of the history of Audi, of the epic battles between Auto Union and Benz in the 30's when Audi's were as advanced as anything on earth.
    That new grille on the Audi's is a tribute to the Auto Union heritage but most people don't know that. It isn't as readily apparant as the bimmer kidney grille or the Volvo diagonal or the M-B grille and star.
    Public perception is a very hard thing to change. It is why cars like the VW Phaeton fail.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    We've had this line of discussion before, its not going to work. You wont convince anyone that the ES is a bargain E-class or 5-series. Lexus is able to load up the ES with state-of-the-art gadgets while keeping its price very low thanks to its close ties with the Camry. Give the ES a unique platform and RWD\AWD like the competition, and you can jack the price up a healthy $10K. Come to think of it, Lexus has a car like that. Its called the GS300.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    There are quite a few reasons as to why Audi, and the A8 dont have a bigger following in the states. I think one of the A8's biggest problems is the previous A8. The last car was frankly lousy. It looked and drove dull as dishwater. The interior, the new car's best feature, was a copy and paste from the A4, enlarged to 400% size. It was an average car at best, and simply invisible in the segment.

    Audi has only had a car worth looking at in the segment for two years, and they have to go up against the S, 7, and LS. That's going to be difficult, and its going to take time, especially considering that, as has already been pointed out in several post, the 4-rings badge just doesnt mean anything to anyone. The badge on a $70K+ car is very important, especially in the US, and Audi's carries zero weight behind it.
  • psychdocpsychdoc Member Posts: 147
    Th new ES is a better car than the GS in pretty much every respect. More HP, more amenities and, perhaps most importantly, much more roomy, especially in the back seat. The only thing is lacks is awd and frankly, I'll take fwd any day as it cuts down on the inefficiencies of awd systems. For the 3 days a year there is actually snow in the road here in NY, I'll just drive really carefully.
    I've driven both the BMW 5 and the M-B E and I'll take the new ES any day. Throw in price as a variable and the comparisons get downright ridiculous.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Yeah. I saw one in silver when I passed my neighbors' the other day and I thought it was quite striking. I did not get a chance to look at it real closely, however.

    Since I have heard several times that the SC430 handles much like the LS, I would rather put this kind of cash to better use and get the Porsche Boxster.

    Lexus really just doesn't get it.
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    Actually, they do get it. The car sells quite well for what it is, but for people like you and me the Cayman and many others are the real deal.

    Did you see Freddie 3-putt from 3 feet with the belly putter and blow the Masters? He blew 6 strokes on short putts. Bloody shame.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Yeah but the Cayman is a hardtop isn't it?
    Not to change the subject but TW missed quite a few putts that were usually automatic for him. Looks like PM stole the tournament.
    I wish the PGA would ban those ridiculous belly putters. If I used one, I would be laughed off my course.
    And Freddy did make $315,700 for his trouble, but I'm sure he really didn't need the money.
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    Yeah, I remember TW once 4-putt from 3 feet at Bay Hill. That was Phil's best round of his career.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Yes. It was the most consistent round Phil has ever played in a major. He really did play great, but if TW made half of those putts he usually makes...

    Watch for other PGA players switching to 2 drivers like Phil, as well as Nike and Callaway trying to sell the poor schnook average golfer a bill of goods that he needs two $400 drivers in his bag!
  • stevekilburnstevekilburn Member Posts: 359
    LOL! 400% larger,

    The A8 is only 12% longer, 8% wider and 3% taller than A4. How come the interior is 400% enlarged?

    Have you taken high-school math yet?

    2+2 = 4 and square root of three = 1.73 ;)
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    I have ever read a review on any Audi vehicle that says anything really enthusiastic about these vehicles save for their handsome interiors which are admittedly the best in their respective classes.
    Hence, I have no motivation to go check any of them out since there seems to always be better alternatives out there.
    Apparently, many other Americans feel the same way,
  • stevekilburnstevekilburn Member Posts: 359
    Your comments make sense. To be honest, Lexus should have been GS much more sexier and agile and powerful and sophisticated so it could sell 50,000 + cars instead of 20-25K that it manages on an average every year.

    Selling 60-70K cars with ES badge with large clumsy overhangs for $33K will not be good for long term passions. The ES is one model which I think Lexus should stop making and focus on increasing the sales of IS, now that it has a good product in hand.

    Increasing IS and GS sales with more powerful engines and better styling will surely compensate for loss in ES sales to some extent.

    Anyway, love is all around and we all might have our own opinions. :P
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    Everyone is still waiting to see PM and TW head to head in the final round. May happpen next time. Let's hope so. Tiger had his chances but his short game let him down. I felt bad for Fred - particularly on that bogey hole - but from what I've read about him he is very wealthy and doesn't have the desire to be what Tiger is and prefers a lesser work ethic and a more rounded life with plenty of relaxation at home. That's fine with me. Happiness internally is what counts, not fame or being No.1, or working your tail off. On the otherhand you have to deeply respect those who do work their tails off. From everything I've read VJ and Tiger work the hardest of everyone. Niklaus, in the days before Tiger rose up, said he thought Fred had the most talent of any golfer to ever play the game - including himself.
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    "Selling 60-70K cars with ES badge with large clumsy overhangs for $33K will not be good for long term passions. The ES is one model which I think Lexus should stop making and focus on increasing the sales of IS, now that it has a good product in hand."

    You want Lexus to stop selling a car that makes 80,000 unit sales a year?? So does it's competition as that car hits its mark dead-on whether you like it or not. $33K is the entry price - most sell $5K higher and many will get into the $41-42K range in the 2007 model year.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    to turn my shoulders like Freddy on his driver swing, my future posts would be coming from a hospital's orthopedic ward!
    Everybody was hoping for a Phil vs Tiger final pairing.
    That would have been awesome!
    Maybe we'll luck out at the US Open!
  • stevekilburnstevekilburn Member Posts: 359
    May be not. It was just a radical suggestion. I think lexus should focus more on high end (LX, LS) and enter the $100K+ heaven and convert more buyers towards sporty IS rather than ES, so that in future lexus has more sporty personality than now.
  • oacoac Member Posts: 1,594
    May be not. It was just a radical suggestion. I think lexus should focus more on high end (LX, LS) and enter the $100K+ heaven and convert more buyers towards sporty IS rather than ES, so that in future lexus has more sporty personality than now.

    Want sporty personality ? Buy a Bimmer, a WRX, an STi, a Porsche, anything except a Lexus... The Lexus formula has worked to perfection on most of their line-ups. Except for a few, all their cars/SUVs have been runaway successes ! How do you go against what made you successful ? That makes no business sense whatsoever... Sorry... The new ES will sell briskly, and continue to lead its class in sales. If I had Toyota's midas touch, I'd be long retired and enjoying life somewhere on the Pacific Ocean front condo somewhere, playing golf and generally enjoying life. Toyota is as good as gold these days. They cannot seem to put any foot wrong... Gotta love or hate them ! And when gas goes to $5 a gallon, then what ? A survey showed almost 50% of Americans are interested in replacing their current car with a hybrid. Hmmmm !!! That LS600H will be a winner, I can just see it already. More power, more performance, more fuel efficiency, and more environmentally friendly, at a price many thousands below its competition. What is not to make it succeed ???
  • blkhemiblkhemi Member Posts: 1,717
    You may want to expand your reading choices as there are many publications that are crazy about the A4, in particular the Cab and S4 variants, which are said to be good M3 competitors.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    I was thinking of mainstream Audi vehicles: A4, A6 and A8.
    I am well aware of the fantastic S4-the only thing negative I have read about it is it looks too much like the A4.
    I saw one a few weeks ago and except for the tiny "S4" on the rear, I thought I was looking at an A4.
    I surely wouldn't refuse one and those Recaro racing seats must be fantastic!
  • blkhemiblkhemi Member Posts: 1,717
    The new ES is just as wildly popular as the orginal ES300 in '92(post ES250). And Lexus has invested more time and energy into redeveloping the car to further distance it from the Camry, albeit it is still rather close.

    The ES is Lexus' bread-n-butter. No way are they to ever kill it. Were talking 80k+ units a year. It was never meant to be a performance ride. That's why they created the GS and IS. It was to be something for the middle agers to turn to when they don't want a Buick. No, there isn't much excitement in the ES. But it is a Lexus, in which it does furnish an impecable finish and solid assembly, and the continued reliablity of the ES line. And with a base price not likely to climb much further than the '06, even with all of the innovations and improvements, I'd say Lexus still has a winning recipe.

    Hope to get a closer look at the LS600h at New York.
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    Audi and VW need to capitalize on two things now, their German-ness and the new bond with Porsche.

    VW was the “people’s car” and it can become the “people’s Porsche” or the “entry-level Porsche.” It already has a young cult following in the US that has this sort of perception. It should be watered and nurtured. This latest round of Jettas and Passats went in the wrong direction—they went soft on ride to compete with the Japanese—big mistake. Redesign them ASAP. German cars are nothing without performance. BMW made its bones in the US with the athletic 2002 just as it was perilously close to going under. I believe VW can and should do the same with a blockbuster car that sits one price level below the mighty 3-series, a pure driver’s car.

    Audi already has good engineering and should somehow be positioned as “Porsche sedans” especially now that Porsche has partnered with VW on hybrid. Panamera will have a limited exotic market but the sky is the limit with production sedans.

    Needless to say, Mercedes and BMW are powerhouse German brands. Take the other potent brand—Porsche—endow Audi and VW with this persona and you’ve really got something. Canvas the world for the marketers who can pull this off, have patience, commitment and watch it flower.

    Porsche has to venture outside of its niche and want it to happen. They’re not exactly marketing geniuses either. I think much of their current success is a matter of riding the rising tide. But if they can put their badge on an elephant with shaky reliability and sell it in a market that was very saturated, think of what they can do with entry-level cars and sedans. Maybe they’ll never put their badge on VWs and Audis, but if buyers can make that connection, I think the marketing can be very successful in the US.

    Audi is like Fruit of the Loom underwear. Yeah, it works. But just put the Polo badge on it sweep the money up.

    ;-)
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    Hpowders, when you said TW I was thinking Tom Watson whose putter went seriously south after storming the majors some 25-30 years ago. Never seen Tiger do that sort of thing… yet. I expect when all is said and done, there will never be another like him, at least not in our lifetime. Can’t help but wonder what will become of Michelle Wie… 15 years old, never won a pro tournament and is pulling in some 10-15 mil a year on endorsements and appearances already.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    No. I meant Tiger Woods.
    It was also nice to see Ben Crenshaw doing well for a while.
    Really painful to see Rocco Mediate implode with that 10!
    The sky's the limit for Michelle Wie. I hear she is just now learning to drive.
    Wonder what her first car is going to be? Somehow, I don't think it will be a Camry!
    I know Natalie Gulbis got a $90k Dodge Viper convertible and her father was tearing his hair out trying to teach her how to drive it with a stick!
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    I agree that Lexus messed up the execution of the GS. (Certainly wouldnt be the first time). Acura also dropped the ball with the RL, while Infiniti knocked it out of the park.

    The ES continues to be a great value, and it makes the Zephyr and Lucerne look like dinosaurs, but its not a car for people who like to drive.
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    Hell of an investment! And he's hardcore! Trying to teach a girl, how to drive stick, in a 500HP convertible!

    I disagree with his methods, but love his passion! Keep it up! :)

    Who knew a golf tournament was what this forum needed? :confuse:

    After reading a Car mag article on the Evo X, plus seeing some stunning, running, concept car pics, I think I'm in love! :blush: That thing will be a true killer!

    If it wasn't saddled with the Mitsu name, it could sell for $50k, and be more than worthy of running down M3s and S4s, rain or shine! With a major warranty, and a mid $30s price, a hell of a bargain!

    DrFill
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Sorry! I digressed a little. :blush:
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    ISF calibration turned out okay.
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    Huh? :confuse:

    Lexguy

    I don't think Lincoln needs any help munning their marque into the ground. :cry:

    DrFill
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Lincoln seems to have figured out the source of their woes. It's all of those historic nameplates! Who wants to drive a "Contintental"? Wouldnt you rather have a "MKS" or "MKX"?
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Re: the SC vs. the SL, part of the reason for the HUGE success of the SC is the SL-matching V8 within the Sc430 engine bay. Whether the Lexus built the SC to compete with the SL primarily, at $25k less is debatable. But the SL, for 3 years, would struggle to outrun the Lexus. I'm sure this was used in "walkarounds" often.

    Won? Won what? The bottom line is that the SL is the better car and has been since day one. For all the speed matching potential you claim the SC430 has it can't use it any way other than in a straight line since it has little to no handling compared to the SL. Again time to update the rant, the SL550 will easily dispense with any SC430s that dare act like they have any "sport" in their DNA. Doc, the SL is a better car than the SC430, period. The SC430 scores last and the SL wins any and everytime they've faced each other. GAME OVER. THE END.

    Re: the original SC, having been knocked-off several times (Mazda MX-6 and Buick Riviera the most blatant), and being called, at $45k, "Possibly the best car on the planet!" by C&D, the 1992-99 SC resume wants for nothing. It had to be re-engineered to bring the latest safety equipment cars started to bear in '95+, and Lexus had other plans.

    Not a one of thoese cars even looks anything like the Lexus SC, especially the Buick. Buick's copy target was Jaguar during those days not Lexus. The last part about the SC having to be re-engineered is a nice, grand even, excuse. Toyota has more money than anyone else and can "engineer" a car to meet whatever standards they want. Period.

    As Mercedes CLK has ALWAYS shown, matching style with the original SC was futile, so just slap two doors on an E, and call it a day!

    First off the CLK isn't based on the E-Class and how do you know that Mercedes was trying to match the SC400? The fact remains that the original CLK from 1998-2002 saw the SC400 off the market, as to which looks better we will agree to disagree there. Not knocking the original SC400 either, I liked the car myself, but it wasn't heaven sent like you portray it to be.

    Considering Mercedes had several years to build an SC competitor, the 1999 CLK430 was another weak effort, hoplessly derivitive of the E-Class sedan, as was it's forebearer.

    Fact check, the 1999 CLK430 was NOT derived from the E-Class. It was derived from the C-Class platform, unlike the previous 300CE/E320 Coupe which was derived from the E-Class.

    Since you brought up the CL (Comparing it to cars costing half as much smacks of desperation, Merc. You know better!), if Lexus built cars that cost as much as S550, SL550, or CL55, you wouldn't be so apt to hide in an Ivory tower.

    I'm not comparing the two cars as a whole, only their styling which the CL blows away any Lexus, still to this day. Talk about desperation at least I can point to a current Mercedes that has some looks and not live in the past about a car long since out of production, that my friend is desperation in trying to cover for the current SC430's lame duck styling and driving experience. The SC400 does nothing for the SC430.

    Mercedes better have an anwser for the 600h! That could be 10-12k sales a year, by itself.

    No doubt the car will be a hit, but why is that Mercedes is the only one that has to "come up with something"? Mercedes won't have a direct answer for the LS600h, as will no other manufacturer. You know how Lexus doesn't have an answer for a boatload of Mercedes and BMW models.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Merc says that people are noticing and praising Audi for its interior quality and technology innovations. I'd like to see the sampling of the buying public that agrees with that. Edmunds is a very small, narrow, viewpoint of the whole market. Most of us are car junkies.... The real world buyers are nothing like us... So I suspect Audi's interior quality and technology hasn't helped it much, but with the VW albatross on Audi's neck, little wonder it has had problem gaining traction (no pun intended) here in the NA market. It may well be too late for Audi to gain any respect, unless Lexus stumbles badly, and Acura and Infiniti fall off the face of the earth. Audi, totally overshadowed by its higher brand German counterparts...

    Well I think all you'd have to do is look on any Audi board here or on Audi forum on the net. Most people here are indeed average buyers and they aren't car junkies in the least, especially not here. The new A8 doing way better than the previous car proves that Audi is doing something right, though at a slower pace than MB/BMW/Lexus. Lexus doesn't have to "stumble" for Audi to gain any respect, all Audi has to do is keep building cars like the A8, RS4 (to bolster the performance imagine, something Lexus knows very little about right now) and dealership satisfaction stories are just that, they don't vary from car junkies or brand junkies to the average joe that posts here. A buyer is either satisfied with the dealer of they aren't, doesn't matter what "type" of buyer they are per say.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    We've talked about Audi before and reached the same conclusions. Being tied to VW is a liability in image and product to a lot of people. This is just plain old outdated thinking. Audi's calling card is still AWD, but only for people who are seeking AWD. Some, not all, people who don't care for AWD will likely be turned off by Audi forcing it on most of their cars like someone else stated.

    Audi's problem is exposure. They simply don't frequent the same circles as Mercedes or BMW and thus don't as much attention. I think a lot of people who bought a recent Audi model were likely pleasantly surprised when they actually decided to look at one. Audis appeal to people who either want AWD standard and to those who are tired of the usual suspects like Mercedes and BMW. This isn't good for "business" per say because they'll always be the underdog and play second fiddle to MB/BMW, but they'll arguably build up a fierecly loyal fanbase.

    I also think that Audi's dealer placement has a lot to do with it too, they aren't often included in "dealer's row" in most areas or at least they weren't until very recently.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Very accurate IMO. The battles in the 1930's between Benz and Auto Union are the stuff of legend, only Mercedes was able to thrive from it and Audi wasn't. I wonder why that is?

    M
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    I've had more than enough of this argument.

    You've gotten in the last word.

    Let's not fight anymore.

    Let us enjoy the NYIAS together, as friends. Deal?

    DrFill
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