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High End Luxury Cars

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Comments

  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Some very interesting choices, and of course the incomparable Clarkson wit.

    http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/section/0,,27909,00.html
  • blckislandguyblckislandguy Member Posts: 1,150
    Tagman, I think to really understand your position and risk exposure you have to slice it a bit finer. Not just say 15% intl equities but, say, 10% European and 5% emerging. Same thing with bonds. (Incidentally, the emerging market bond funds have done very, very well.) Clearly the old rules of taking your age and subtracting from 100 to get your equity allocation vs. bonds has changed. Dramatically.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Tagman, I think to really understand your position and risk exposure you have to slice it a bit finer.

    If you are that interested, one third of my international equities is strictly divided equally between Japan, Russia, India, China and yes, emerging. The other two thirds I allow to vary.

    The fixed instruments I mentioned are primarily bonds that I've selected over the years, and represent 25% of the entire portfolio as I mentioned in the original post.

    Up until today I was 60% US equities, and did very well. That is one of the changes I made today, reducing them to 40% and placing 20% of my portfolio into ready cash.

    Also, FYI, my international was 10% prior to today, and is now 15% of my entire portfolio, broken down as indicated above.

    Is that what you had in mind?

    TagMan
  • stevekilburnstevekilburn Member Posts: 359
    I meant 17 million new vehicle sales every year.
  • stevekilburnstevekilburn Member Posts: 359
    I am thinking about it, may be a letter to Okuda and one to Press.
  • stevekilburnstevekilburn Member Posts: 359
    Pricing debate is just the starting point. Eventually this discussion is about globalization of Lexus and its future evolution into a "premium HELM"
  • stevekilburnstevekilburn Member Posts: 359
    Can you point even one post where I said LS should be priced head-to-head with S550. This is an outrage and I condemn it in strongest possible terms. :mad:

    When you look at the general atmosphere you have to go by MSRP and not any whims. Of course the final transaction will vary but thats not the point. The point is LS competing head-to-head on pricing with A8/7.
  • stevekilburnstevekilburn Member Posts: 359
    Well then why is Audi using diesel V12 for sebring and Le Mans? Is it not going to be migrated to Audi A8 in future? Am I missing something.

    I have been rooting for diesel hybrids ever since I joined Edmunds. Diesel-hybrids is the long term (20-30 yrs) solution.
  • stevekilburnstevekilburn Member Posts: 359
    Thanks for corrections, but whether its pulp, switch grass or sugarcane, the land use will be immense and its going to create HAVOC.

    Diesel-hybrids with 100 mpg is the way to go, and cafe standards should be raised to at least 50 mpg for cars and 48 mpg for trucks in the next 5 years in a gradual manner. Diesel and gas should be raised to 10$/gallon to protect America's future and to boost the economy, environment and living standards.

    Only Ferrari, which is Jesus' car of choice should be exempt. ;)
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    I agree. Lexus is likely going to come within a bumper of doing what he is now saying they should do, especially the LS460L and A8L. Slow and careful growth is the Lexus/Toyota way and it has worked brilliantly much to the dismay of the nearly the entire auto industry so there is no need to go radical with pricing. Long money vs. short.

    I'm still reeling over the winner, not really Idol material IMO. I would have picket Katherine. What I really don't like is that the word was out that morning about Taylor winning, they cheapened the whole thing by basically letting the cat out of the bag. To me he didn't even look surprised. His reaction looked staged.

    I think someone will likely pick up Paris, Chris, Ace, Elliot and Katherine all to varying degrees of course. When Clive Davis was talking about who sold what I was surprised that last year's winner actually sold anything. She really wasn't that good, at least not then. The finale show was the best episode since the initial trial episodes. Toni Braxton and Elliot didn't make a good team though. He over sang her by a mile because of her sultry style. I agree the others will likely outshine Taylor over the long term. He is just too goofy for me to take seriously most of the time and he looks 10-15 years older than he really is, so he likely won't be marketed to the kids. Last, but not least I hope Paula gets some help during the off season.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Well the BMW "Z6" is in the infancy of wild speculation. We really don't know what BMW is testing under than M5 body. It could be the (also rumored) M5 CSL, a lightweight, higher hp version of the M5. Then again looking at the bulges it could be a roadster chassis under there. I've always thought BMW's high-end Coupes and Roadsters were special, being much more exclusive than similar models from Mercedes-Benz. Though that exclusivity wasn't by BMW's choosing. I'm likely the only person here that actually liked the old 850Ci/CSi. I liked the Z8 too. Both cars were stunning looking during their time IMO.

    It is however no secret that BMW envies/hates the Mercedes SL because of its market penetration at that price point and the fact that it has been such a long-running success. I've also read where they find the Aston-Martin DB9 to be interesting car too because of such demand for a 160K. The article I saw (I think Autoweek) said that BMW fingered the Aston due to it being much more like the type of car BMW would like to build at the price point even though the Bentley Continental GT is more popular, it drives like a boat in comparison or something like that.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Merc: I read in Autocar last week that Mercedes is fiddling with the possibility of a S600 diesel. I wonder if this is the surprise that they've promised since it's release? DCX has reportedly given the green light to Chrysler to let their end of the business use the Bluetec 3.2L CDI. Good news indeed.

    I'm not sure. I just remember seeing some type of model introduction sheet for the W221 and it included a S600 CDI. I think I posted a copy of it in the Future Mercedes thread a while ago.

    I don't think we'll see a S350 this time around, but I said that back in 1999 and look what happened in 2006! I think this time though we'll see the S320 CDI take the entry-level postion, but the S model you left out is the hybrid. Mercedes has of course shown both a gas/electric hybrid and a diesel/electric hybrid, I think we'll get the gas/electric and Europe the diesel/electric. That would be brilliant IMO.

    M
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    VW will be supplying Porsche with painted bodies for Panamera.

    From Porsche President and CEO Wendelin Wiedeking:

    "We have decided in favour of the Hanover Plant because it is one of the most modern plants within the entire Volkswagen Group and is in a position to build the body of the car with the premium quality we require."

    Translation:

    Porsche just bought a nice chunk of stock in VW. Ferdinand Peich is Chairman of VWs Supervisory board, a member of Porsche’s Supervisory Board, and Pop Porsche’s grandson. Whaddya friggin’ expect?

    ;-)

    http://www.porsche.com/usa/aboutporsche/pressreleases/pag/?pool=international-de- - - &id=2006-05-19

    http://www.vwvortex.com/artman/publish/volkswagen_news/article_1758.shtml
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Oh my gawd! Do you see what the "re-sellers" want for tickets to the Idols tour concerts?
    Should be mostly HELM's in the parking lot, I reckon!
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Since BMW made an extremely good showing with the incomparable M5 and M6, I am of course very :) !

    Well, time to load the family in the ol' estate car; go to the bank; make a large withdrawal and fill 'er up with petrol.
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    I am often at 90mph without even knowing it.

    Hmm, 90 in a Matrix. In that case maybe you are better off not having a BMW or sports car because the “without even knowing it” factor spikes, plus the little devil on one’s shoulder is inclined to go to work.

    Yes, I admit, I am lead-footed. Got to be out here, as you dang know very well Designman. You must be as well, I suppose, with a Boxter and a 530i... if you are not, I'd be shocked !!

    Let’s put it this way, you can’t leave a dog alone with a steak and not expect him to eat it. I could tell you a couple of long stories but will keep it short. I got stopped for speeding twice in the past two years, once in each car. Luckily I have only a traffic sign violation on my license to show for it. Lately I have been on my best behavior because the ticket I got with the Boxster was a knuckle biter and fortunately it tempered the desire. I’ve been thinking of getting a V1 but am worried it could provoke. The answer for me is to get to a track, you know, take the dog to the park and let him run.

    Oac, if you were wowed by a 330 with SP, driving a Porsche is wow cubed, whether it's a Boxster or 911. Warning: stay away from these cars.

    ;-)
  • sysweisyswei Member Posts: 1,804
    here

    I assume the years are calendar.
  • blkhemiblkhemi Member Posts: 1,717
    Let's take a look at something that I found interesting in today's Boston Globe:

    Lexus: Parent Company-Toyota
    Mercedes: Parent Company-DCX
    Audi: Parent Company-Volkswagen AG
    Jag: Parent Company- Ford (PAG)
    Volvo: Parent Company- Ford (PAG)
    And just for kicks and laughs--- Caddy: Parent Company- GM(vergening bankrupt, delinquent, counter-productive....etc)

    So BMW has it all to itself. Could this be the under-lying reason for it's continued astonishing sales performance and the enviable M models and the ever present and popular 3-Series? Or could it be the reasoning for such bad business decisions as the destroying the Ultimate Driving HELM(7-Series) style, even as far as hiring Bangle?

    I must admit that a company that doesn't have to answer to anybody and the company run correctly is the envy of all car companies. The reasoning for posting this message is this: ALL car companies can learn a thing or two from BMW, and now Toyota for that matter. Up until '02, the company was hugely cautious about what product it put out(save for the James Bond-esque Z8). Then the polarizing 7 took the world by storm(for good or bad), and the company has taken the huge gamble that has ultimately paid off big time. And at the rate they're going, it doesn't seem likely that there will be a take-over anytime soon.
  • blkhemiblkhemi Member Posts: 1,717
    What an interesting map year. I didn't know the 7 was coming out next year, and the Z8 is being renewed? Cool. The map is spot on with the X5 and 3-Series convertible. So it's possible that it's correct.
  • reality2reality2 Member Posts: 303
    Latest reports state that the next generation A8 will have a V12 Diesel and a base V10 FSI. The next A8 will be released in 2009 and is increasing in size and complexity as is the trend. Should continue the A8s evolution as a great luxury tourer.
  • blkhemiblkhemi Member Posts: 1,717
    There are two conflicting reports surrounding the new engines to be placed in the new for '09 A8. One report says that Ingolstadt has scrapped the V-12 racing-derived diesel in lieu of the easier to maintain V-10 TDI. Then there is one that says that they'll use a variant of the racing diesel in the next A8.

    Yes the next A8 will move up even more in size(which is definetely not lacking now), and will prove to be one of the most sophisticated cars in it's class. There's even talks of a super-high luxury variant to push the envelope to 200k. Surely this will be a super-low volume model, but it will have the goodies to back it up, mainly the 600-hp plus twin-turbo FSI V-10. Audi is still the only manufacturer to use turbo on a direct injected engine. Wonder how long that'll last?

    I'm most interested in the 450-hp V-8 version because as it looks, it'll be the most powerful player in it's class(base engines of course). Audi has also revamped Quattro so that the cars will have a RWD-biased power development. Also the cars will have much shorter front over hangs as the platforms switches to a sort of Nissan-like front-midship engine design, meaning the engines will sit behind the axle line, for better handling and weight distribution.

    As most of you can tell, I'm probably the biggest Audi nut on this forum. I believed Volkswagen/Audi last month when they said that they know that they've left North America out in the cold regarding the A8 and will rectify the situation this go round. They have to in order to stay competitive. In Europe, the A8 is often the first or second best selling car, so it's likely that they'll definetely advertise a lot more here. And Audi does have this uncanny ability to introduce the flagship in a model year when no other car in it's class is about to be released, hence the '09 release, just like '04.

    Judging from my W-12, which is probably the best kept secret in the biz, Audi is not a joke. The company has to do a better here in North America with this car. The A3/A4/A6 and heck even the Q7 will sell themselves, but when dealing with a customer that's about to plop 70-80 large on a car, you must know what the customer is wanting in a car. The current A8 has it, but there has been a huge communications breakdown here that has inhibited Audi's share of the pot. Hopefully this will change soon.
  • garyh1garyh1 Member Posts: 394
    The company has to do a better here in North America with this car. The A3/A4/A6 and heck even the Q7 will sell themselves, but when dealing with a customer that's about to plop 70-80 large on a car, you must know what the customer is wanting in a car. The current A8 has it, but there has been a huge communications breakdown here that has inhibited Audi's share of the pot. Hopefully this will change soon.

    And we can always hope that by the '09 model year, Audi will have given up on that "wide-mouth bass" front end, or at least figured out how to make it better fit in with the rest of the car's design. That kept me personally from even considering the car the last time.
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,327
    I have to agree Gary. That big gaping black hole for a grill just turns me off of a car that I was pretty fond of before. Does anyone really like this grill?

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • blkhemiblkhemi Member Posts: 1,717
    That's one of my major gripes with the outside design of the car. But the car's overall design is so well laid out that it becomes one of those things you just put up with, as crazy as that sounds. But it does make the car stand out, for good or bad. Sketch glipses of the '09 show more of a modern R8 looking front end, which is a good thing.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    I think the "Auto Union" face works on some of Audi's cars, and not so much on others. I've seen a few jet-black Audi A3s on the road, they are slick looking cars.

    On the bigger cars though, I think its just too much. Slap some wings on the new A6 Avant, and it would look like an old MiG fighter jet.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    And we can always hope that by the '09 model year, Audi will have given up on that "wide-mouth bass" front end, or at least figured out how to make it better fit in with the rest of the car's design. That kept me personally from even considering the car the last time.

    Is it my imagination, or has VW also adopted this look?

    TagMan
  • blkhemiblkhemi Member Posts: 1,717
    Yes the latest gen Jetta's and Golf's have adopted the look also. But it is to a lesser extent. The Jetta's face isn't so wide-mouthed as an A4 for instance.

    VW and Audi will tell you that the grilles are more of a need than a want. They said that it was easy to convert to the new Euro pedestrian safety measurements and also give teh cars a "face-lift" at the same time.

    All of the cars would prabably look good with the grille if it wasn't dressed in 40lbs of bling-chrome. Body-colored w/ black mesh(as on the Jetta GLI and Golf GTI) grilles look very good on these cars. Strangely enough, the V-Dubs have more chrome than the Audis. My W-12 has a thin strip of chrome around the grille and also where the front license plate(mid section of the grille) goes which is good enough.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Interesting comparison test. I don't think any of the major US publications has done a comparison test with the new S yet, right?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLbdK3S37sw&eurl=
  • blkhemiblkhemi Member Posts: 1,717
    Very interesting video. The BMW trails both for handling? The Audi the most unsafe and the better handler of the 3? And the new Mercedes interior is better than Audi? For sure this must've been a biased comparo.

    It is nice to see how the 6-cylinder versions of these cars operate.

    BTW: All of these cars must have Euro-spec suspension as the narrator said they all rode quite firm. I know the home market models have firmer suspensions than the America-bound models as I've driven all three cars and found them quite supple, even the sportiest of the model offerings(A8 Sport, 760i Sport, and the S65 AMG)
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Great video. Thanks.

    While I'm sure the new LS will be a significant improvement over its predecessor, it is doubtful that it will equal, let alone surpass the MB S-Class.

    I would be perfectly comfortable with BMW pulling out of the HELM sedan category where it is clearly over-matched and concentrate on what it does best: the 3-series, the 5-series and the M's.

    Just saw MI-3. Heartbreaking how they blew up that breathtaking Lambo!
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,327
    Thanks for clearing that up for me Steve. NOW it makes sense.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • feverhartfeverhart Member Posts: 144
    As the saying goes, "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder", and perhaps so is substance. From my point of view and to take some liberty in paraphrasing you, I'm sure the new LS will be a significant improvement over its predecessor, it is doubtLESS that it will more than equal, and surpass the MB S-Class.

    OK, you have it; couldn't let this go unchallenged. We'll just have to wait to see. It is nice to have your thoughtful input.
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    Way to come correct! The LS has nothing to fear in the S-Class, and has proven a more than worthy adversary before. All eyez on Lexus.

    It's time to take the gloves off! Playtime is over!

    The Germans wouldn't be so smug. They've learned a lesson.

    DrFill
  • reality2reality2 Member Posts: 303
    Would love to hear about the super-luxury variant more if you have additional information or where to go. I've heard that Audi has been planning a higher HELM above the A8L W-12 (which is pretty high already at around $140,000 loaded) in the near future, but thought it was only conjecture. Great read by the way - your post. :)
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Well, to be fair, I have only seen the one comparo that Lexusguy provided.
    The S350 beat out the A8 and BMW 7 Series (no surprise here; BMW never wins the HELM comparos) offering the best in performance and luxury.
    The LS may compete with MB in the latter, but, not the former, IMO.

    We'll just have to wait for a head to head comparo in the American press of the A8, BMW 7 series, LS460 and MB S-Class. Hopefully, in the Fall.

    As an indulgent digression: come on C&D. How long must we wait for a 2007 Camry SE 6 vs Accord EX 6 comparo?
  • blckislandguyblckislandguy Member Posts: 1,150
    Its about.. GLOBAL LOVE AND GLOBAL PASSION ..(bold in the original)

    Huh????? I've love to be a fly on the wall if this was ever said to the President of Nissan as he commutes to France to his day job as President of Renault. Or some guy working third shift in a Lexus plant cranking these things out so that the Americans can snap them up to drive to the mall.

    Steve, this is nutty.
  • blkhemiblkhemi Member Posts: 1,717
    The only thing I've heard regarding the most expensive A8 is that Audi is playing with the idea of offering it. The only problem I have with the idea is that I think it would probably have conflicting issues seeing how you can get a Flying Spur for the same money. Maybe brand preference will play in here.

    The top A8 is said to have best-in-class feature content and power. Audi is also reported to increase warranty limits to 6/80,000 miles for all Audi's, a first for any luxury make. Wonder what's behind this? I thought the 5yr/60k offering with the free scheduled maintanence was quite good.

    Other than what I've read in Autocar, it was reported on a German site that Audi is likely to give the car a Maybach-like rear seating area with the primo seats and other first-rate appointments. And I was happy with my rear refridgerator.....
  • blckislandguyblckislandguy Member Posts: 1,150
    FWIW, I was told recently that one of the UAG (Penske's operation) dealerships gave up their Maserati franchise because Maser just wasn't stepping up to the plate on warranty issues. They claimed that they were indeed selling the car in significant numbers but just weren't going to stand for the CSI beating they were taking. Lending credence to this, Maserati USA has not appointed anyone new in this territory. If true, this is not how to rebuild a troubled brand.
  • oacoac Member Posts: 1,594
    Nice one, feverhart... If the LS460 drives like its on rails, luxuried-up like a Maybach, rides like a Maser, and is as reliable as your favorite couch, these naysayers won't touch it, except look for ways to bash it. So why bother ! Does it matter that the LS is the #1 luxury full-size sedan in the US 5 years running (the S550 will take that crown for this year tho')...

    Oh, isn't the 750 on its second re-do in 5 years ? Yet it barely registers on the richter scale of buyers. FWIW, its gonna be the elites of the HELM class battling it out - the S550/S600 and the LS-series of sedans. Tough, but Audi really should be in the mix, but its just too tepid in sales here in the NA market.

    But I guess we'll see soon enough, won't we ?
  • oacoac Member Posts: 1,594
    Oac, if you were wowed by a 330 with SP, driving a Porsche is wow cubed, whether it's a Boxster or 911. Warning: stay away from these cars.

    Thanks for the warning, Designman.... Someday in a not too distant future, I'll be looking to buy a car of this type since they do really fit my driving style; of course you won't know it based on the cars we have at home, for now. Just gonna wait for the kids to exit the home before I get to address that other need for a driver's car for moi. Bridging the then-and-now will be a replacement of my '99 LS400 either this fall or early spring of '07 when the frenzy around the LS460 subsides somewhat.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    As an indulgent digression: come on C&D. How long must we wait for a 2007 Camry SE 6 vs Accord EX 6 comparo?

    I'm sure C&D wont do another family sedan test until the new Altima and new Accord are ready to compete, so its probably going to be awhile. My guess is that the Camry would win against the current Accord.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    And don't forget the Sonata. Another serious competitor.
    Folks are learning what it is like to be the first kid on the block with a re-designed Camry.
    A new thread has arisen recently: "2007 Toyota Camry Woes."
    It has 125 posts already.
    Of course, problems may arise with any new model, even (this will be hard) BMW's. :)
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    We have some sort of "issues" discussion for all vehicles that draw a substantial number of posters here. And as we move to the more granular format of our future, that will tend to increase, not decrease. It has nothing to do with the cars themeselves, just the Forums trying to give folks what they've been requesting.

    Camrys, Altimas, Accords, Sonatas - other Forums discussions - none of this has thing in the world to do with HELMs. ;)
  • foster1foster1 Member Posts: 17
    Hi, I agree that the new Audi grills look funny. When I bought my 2005 Audi A8, I was very pleased that it didn't have the funny big grill--but now the newest version has it also. Too bad, because otherwise Audis seems very sharply and cohesively styled, the best of the German cars. (Although I say this in the context of the Germans generally being clueless on styling, and it being really funny when the Asians COPY them!)
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    I say this in the context of the Germans generally being clueless on styling

    How's this for German styling that is far from "clueless":

    The MB SL, MB CLS, MB S, Porsche Boxster, Porsche 911, Porsche Cayman, BMW 3-Series, BMW Cabriolets, ETC., ETC., and there are MANY that other posters would add to this short list.

    Yes there are some concerns that show up periodically, but that is more the result of being in the FOREFRONT of design INNOVATION. It comes with the territory.

    "Clueless" just doesn't apply here at all, IMO.

    TagMan
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    a nice Audi Grille- forget about the A8 and check out the new Q7.
    Absolutely striking from the front, IMO.
  • oacoac Member Posts: 1,594
    Personally, I don't like the banana-shaped CLS... Feel its kinda constraining on rear passengers, IMO. The e90 3-series is too sedate for my liking... Seems BMW in trying NOT to Bangle it made it such that it won't be that polarizing. Yes, the 5 or 7 may not have all the love in the world on styling, they were at least edgy and different, and that is a good thing from the humdrum of styles these days. The SL, new S and any Porsche are all extremely beautiful cars...so you got my votes on these.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    OAC - Admittedly, I'm also not as huge a fan of the CLS styling as some others, including merc1. But my post was to counter the remark that the Germans were somehow "clueless" regarding their design. Whether or not you and I like the CLS, it is quite innovative and striking, IMO, and shows that the German styling is alive and well. We sure do agree about the Porsches, though, as well as the new S and the legendary SL. I also think your point about the 3-series makes good sense.

    TagMan
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    The CLS is one of those cars that you really have to see in person. It looks 1000% better up close than it does in pictures.
  • stevekilburnstevekilburn Member Posts: 359
    BMWs have always been about image and brilliant propoganda. High on image and painfully short on substance.

    There is not one BMW product which stands upto all the hype. The recent comparison Video posted, b/w A8, 7 and S clearly showed that with BMW its all talk and lousy action.

    The video decisively debunked the MYTH of BMW handling.
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