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Yes, poignant, that’s one of the ten commandments of the German-car buyer. Screw the risk, tempt fate, go for the surf. A shark attack is less likely than a lightning strike. It can’t happen to me, and if it does so what? A coward dies a thousand deaths, a brave heart dies once. In other words I got your reliability right here ;-)
I spent a glorious day at the US Open yesterday. I’ll spare you any detail except this. One of the things that made the day was that cell phones were not allowed on the course. You were scanned at entry points and had to check the phone in where it was put on a shelf in a paper bag in a kiosk. At first I worried if it would somehow get stolen or lost, then figured I would be better off if this happened. Until yesterday, I had totally forgotten about the idyll we came from not too long ago and thought to myself if a genie emerged from a lamp, eliminating cell phones from existence would be one of my wishes. I don’t expect you to believe that but you get the point. I really can’t stand them and they were conspicuous by their absence. Not a single nag, nary an idiot to be seen making love to his clam shell or heard barking into it for the entire world to hear.
I’m thinking about going again today. The weather is perfect and the cell phones I mean stars seem aligned. We’ll see, the crowds are also overwhelming.
Too bad Tiger isn’t around but as one writer put it, his recently deceased father was probably honored more by him missing the cut, a reminder of what’s really important.
I absolutely 100% agree!!
Hope you do get to go back today - how fun!
Um, totally off-topic, yes I know.
BTW, Happy Father's Day to all of us Dads. King for a Day. Truth is . . . my family is the best gift of all, and I am truly grateful.
So far . . . I've been informed that I should relax by the pool, with the wife and kids ready to serve all of my needs. Hmmm, let's see now.
TagMan
Happy Father's Day to all the fathers we have participating here. Enjoy your day!
Pat, how about a little something about yourself . . . without going beyond your comfort zone.
TagMan
LJ, if that's your best defense, then we may as well not even play the game. It's easily known that the average blue-haired customers shop both Lexus,Buick, and Caddy. And that thing about upgrading Caddy, hmmm.. As it stands of now, Caddy's lineup makes Lexus look "bad". The CTS(especially the V) continues to be successful, and the glorified Escalade runs circles around the LX in terms of technology and sales(for the same money interestingly), and the STS V8 is a better performer than the GS430(dare I even mention the STS-v?). And pound for pound, I don't rate the current LS430 any higher than a DTS, despite the FWD, it too is just a cruiser, something that it's fine doing and not posing as anything else. Oh and I've sampled a '06 DTS w/Performance Pkg. and found it to be better than the Lexus with the Euro option and the interior materials weren't that far off of the LS430's mark and the silence about the same for about same money with more standard features. Again the LS is better how?? Turn back a couple pages and you'll see all of the Lexicans preaching about the "supremacy" of the LS. Ah, relia.......
So in that saying, again, besides the "R" word and supposed wonderful craftsmanship and build, what does a Lexus bring to the table? The flatbed-truck thing was great, even hilarious, but mind you both my 760iL and S65 AMG were both delivered to me on a flatbed for the sake of not adding mileage to the vehicle. It's called customer service. So because the MB was on a flatbed, it was broken. On a Sunday, where was it going? Luxury dealers don't open on Sunday's. So it automatically was inoperable because it was on the truck? That goes to show how "bad" you look when you'd sink to this level to prove a misguided/misleading point.....
I think the shrinks call that a "defense mechanism."
Helps 'em to avoid uncomfortable reality, I guess.
You are correct. The LS brings absolutely nothing to the table aside from its dependability. It will always be the favorite vehicle for the nearly embalmed, blue-haired set.
I drove it twice right down to the obnoxious gated shifter, slippery wooden steering wheel and uncomfortable seats.
I would hope the 2007 version would be an improvement, but I'm not holding my breath.
BTW: I read that article on the 530i. What a bunch of baloney. Why bring a 6-cylinder to a V8 fight? I'd rather them not even put it in the test.
Hence they rigged the comparo under an "MSRP price constraint." The whole point was to punish BMW.
If you are a performance oriented car mag. don't give me this price constraint BS when in every issue they devote so much ridiculous space to super-exotics that most readers cannot afford.
They couldn't include a $60k 545 vs an M45?
Bottom line . . . what's the difference even if it WAS a vehicle going in for service? Who gives a flying ----?
Gosh, I suppose we had better call all the editors of the car rags, let JD Powers know that things could be even WORSE than they have suggested, inform Consumer Reports that the Mercedes reliab----- has now plunged even further, and warn ALL prospective buyers of an S-Class that with the purchase of the car comes a deep relationship with a flatbed truck driver AND the Mercedes service manager. Give them the flatbed truck driver's cell phone number and beer preferences NOW so they are adequately prepared for all those calls they will need to make if they somehow make the terrible mistake of choosing the S-Class over the LS.
TagMan
I think the shrinks call that a "defense mechanism."
Helps 'em to avoid uncomfortable reality, I guess.
You are correct. The LS brings absolutely nothing to the table aside from its dependability. It will always be the favorite vehicle for the nearly embalmed, blue-haired set.
Howard, your writing style does get obnoxious sometimes. What exactly is all these groupie mentality and derogatory speak for ? Enjoy your 545 and let others be. I am getting real tired of your kind of posts which are just so negative....
oac - relax . . . let Howard be Howard. He's part of what makes this whole thing what it is.
Next thing you know you'll be taking a vacation from Edmunds again, and frankly, I like your posts too much and I wouldn't want that to happen.
now . . . back to the pool for a while. Ah-h :shades:
TagMan
And pound for pound, I don't rate the current LS430 any higher than a DTS, despite the FWD, it too is just a cruiser, something that it's fine doing and not posing as anything else.
Oh, how I wish you would think these posts through before dropping them like 3rd period French!
You seem impressed by CTS sales, but it is behind ES330/350 sales, and will always be. Having sat in a CTS (but refusing to soil my palate drivind one), anyone who would buy that over an ES deserves the resale value!
The Escalade competes with the GX and the LX, and I haven't seen anyone shame the GX in anything. The 'Slade may be fast, but get a power tilt wheel and some Auto-up windows before you come knocking on that door! Both are better off-road, and more luxurious.
Didn't the 'Slade just lose another comparison to the Mercedes GL?
The Deville? You said a mouth full when you said "pound-for-pound"! The last time eye sore it compared to the leaders, I think a Volvo beat it out for drivability and appeal.
Should I call that post a rough draft of what you really wanted to say?
If Audi can't knock on Lexus' door, you KNOW Caddy will keep walkin'!
So Cadillac is your horse now? Just going around the 2nd-tier this week?
Audi is good! Don't bail so fast! They'll be alright.
DrFill
You sure sound like a GM salesperson.
And pound for pound, I don't rate the current DTS any higher than a ES350. Oh, wait, DTS is no where close to the ES350 in terms of luxury, performance, and sales.
The truth be known, MB, Buick, and Jaguar have the OLDEST buying demographics not Lexus. Blue-haired driving LS ? Look at the MB owners for blue-haired moneyed people. I'm 42 and have been driving an LS well into my 30's. I am no blue-haired floosy trying to relive my youth driving V8-powered sedans.... Neither is LG, or LJ, or many LS owners here. The IS and GS have very young, upwardly mobile buyers, much as the 3 and 5-series. The C, E and especially S-class are populated by middle-aged to older buyers, who believe in MB mystique and want the badge. My very good friend, an MD, just bought an E350. He could not be disuaded to even consider any other car. He simply wanted an MB for the name. I will say, he represents the typical MB buyer....
When evaluating the typical buyer for any marque, it is a generalization that is not even close to black and white. There are so many shades of gray, and exceptions to what is typical that it's absurd to even consider all of it, unless you are an ad agency doing your best to target your advertising.
There are plenty of young buyers of Jaguars and Mercedes. Success just generally comes at a riper age, that's all, but not as a rule. And when the very young get money, anything goes. Generally, as the success ladder is climbed, the buyer moves up from the Corolla to the Camry to the ES to the LS, not necessarily in that exact sequence, but you get the idea. Or from the C-Class to the E-Class to the S-Class or SL, but again not as a rule.
These are just typical scenarios, and AVERAGES. Fact is, most people are not average, just a part of what makes up the average.
It's like the average temperature. Most days are actually hotter or colder. Mixed together and then divided we come up with the average temperature that is seldom seen in real life.
Someone here recently said that statistics are like bikinis . . . it's not what they show that counts . . . it's what they cover up. I liked that saying and remembered it, but which one of you guys said it?
Anyway, get the point?
TagMan
Better how? Hmm, that is a tough one. Let me see if I can think of anything. For one thing, Lexus doesn't reskin 10+ year old designs and call them "new". 275hp out of "just" 4.6L? Wow. Sounds suspiciously like the northstar that was in the Deville, doesn't it? That GM 4-speed autobox sounds an awful lot like the one in the Deville also. The LS460 will be packing twice as many foward gears as the DTS. The DTS doesn't even come standard with actual wood in it. Please. It can't even come close to competing with the LS430 (a 2001 design) and the LS460 will just make it look like that much more of a relic that should've died 10 years ago. The DTS is better than only one car, the Lincoln Town Car, and that's saying very, very little.
Ehm... that would be moi !
yep . . . it soytenly wuz.
TagMan
;-)
Couldn't hit the driver all day and with 3 of the toughest holes left, all he needed to do was hit 2 iron off the tee just to place it in the fairway.
Phil is truly an enigma. I don't know what he was thinking.
Wonder if he drive a car like he plays golf.
If by the current one you mean the '06 and by the next one you mean the '07, then it is not yet known how much difference there might be. The '06 was a big improvement over the '05, but it is too early to tell if the '07 will offer much of an improvement over the '06. Certainly the '07 would not likely be worse, so it stands to reason that there is little to lose, except waiting for about 60 days.
Morgan is certainly an interesting line, but I would not be a player for one. The Aeromax, like the Aero Eight makes use of BMW's 333-HP 4.4 naturally aspirated V8 with 331 lb-ft of torque. And it's plenty fast. Maybe a collector would buy a car like that.
TagMan
Man did he screw up #18. Thought he was going to pull it off.
Phil looked absolutely inconsolable in the clubhouse. Not much Amy could say.
He wouldn't grant NBC an interview. Quite understandable.
I almost know what that feels like- kinda like after Oac laces into me after one of my abrasive posts.
TagMan
TagMan
PS> Congratulations to Audi and Audi Sport for it 6th 24 Hour of Le Mans crown in the new millenium in the last 7 years (Bently was powered by Audi by the way)...and the first turbodiesel in history.
DrFill
This was a late '04 comparison.
And Automobile Mag just put it last in a comparison against the new S and the 750iL.
I like the A8! But let's calm down, and keep one foot firmly planted in Reality, k?
Haven't seen the MT comparison, but C&D does the best comparos, and is the best mag in the States.
I will check that out doh!
DrFill
You know, it shouldn't be hard to design a great audio system for a vehicle. The designer knows where people are going to be seated and they can't move around.
DrFill
TagMan
Toyota and Lexus are so mainstream, it's scary. Such a broad appeal. A huge threat that is going to get much bigger. From General Motors, Cadillac can't do the job alone. The lower lines are totally lost. Ford is also lost and dizzy it seems, and Chrysler may be the last hope for the American auto.
TagMan
Division Median age
Rolls-Royce 62.9
Lincoln 62.8
Buick 60.8
Mercedes 58.7
Chrysler 56.4
Mercury 55.1
Cadillac 53.4
Jaguar 49.8
Lexus 49.4
BMW 46.1
Ferrari 45.6
Hummer 45.6
Acura 45.3
GMC 44.4
Saab 44.4
Pontiac 43.4
Porsche 43.4
Dodge 42.9
Chevrolet 42.7
Honda 41.9
Toyota 41.9
Infiniti 41.6
Mitsubishi 41.3
Volvo 40.3
Ford 39.7
Land Rover 38.9
VW 38.7
Jeep 37.6
Nissan 35.1
Mazda 34.6
Suzuki 33.2
Isuzu 32.7
Subaru 31.7
Saturn 30.9
Hyundai 29.8
Kia 28.1
Of the brands we usually discuss on this board, the clear number one choice of Senior Citizens seems to be...Mercedes!
source article
TagMan
I was hoping you had it in you, and you obviously do - when you want to be positive instead of just incendiary.
Seems they lumped Scion in with Toyota's numbers, as Scion isn't listed, but Isuzu is.
Looks like Lincoln customers have all died, and weren't driven out.
Volvo sports a LOW number! Definitely would expect an older, more conservative, loyal buyer for them.
LandRover, Porsche very low too.
Lexus stays on the right side of 50. Mercedes is old-money.
DrFill
converge and intersect at places on a chart. The Buick driver would have greater age and lower wealth than the Mercedes driver, for example, and THAT would be the REAL reason.
TagMan
Must have lumped Mini into BMW demographics as well...
Looks like Lincoln customers have all died, and weren't driven out.
Those Ford Grand Marquis, Victoria, Continentals, are truly for the real blue-hairs...
Lexus stays on the right side of 50. Mercedes is old-money.
No kidding.... Lexus is new money, while MB is old money indeed... If you are middle-aged, there is not much to lust after MB for, except when you get to its upper-tier cars/roadsters/AMG variants... And even then there is so many choices out there for the buyer. Personally, the only MB my heart desires is plain ol' E55, my own rocket machine and I'd dare Howard to challenge me anytime, anywhere.... Give me that car, and I'd be a happy camper indeed :):)
The fact of the matter is that I'm still content on what I like, just like most of the G-car fans here. You like to ride, I like to DRIVE. No biggie, just differences of preferences.
I too am awaiting the LS460 as it should finally address what most people find lacking. But by then, Germany will have moved on even further. But undoubtedly the LS will remain popular, and hopefully the car will enjoy new company in the younger tech set with addition of the LS600hL, which will probably be the most techno car(it'll probably make the 7 look like an Atari) in it's class until the new 7/A8 arrives.
There, now you have it. I'm not against the car. But it can't sit high above on the pedestal amongst it's direct competitors based on the merit of a few strengths. I think the LS460 will change the way we view the car all together, both the Lexican and G-car fans..
On average, a Lexus can be afforded earlier than a Mercedes. It's not that complicated.
TagMan
Ride v Drive, eh ? I believe I do DRIVE all of my cars fairly regularly. I also do hitch a RIDE with a friend or business associate once in awhile.... Is that what you meant, BlkHemi ?
BTW, what will be the difference b/w driving an A8L and driving an LS430 ? Both have four wheels, four doors, a steering, powerful V8 motors, 6 cogs, etc... The A8L is plush, longer wheelbase, beautiful interior, and a tad slow compared to its peers. The LS is plush, shorter wheel base, beautiful interior and ergonomics, and as fast as its peers, even with the smallest displacement. Excessive road noise, and high NVH ain't fortes for HELM cars. All of these HELM cars have similar attributes with small differences - marketing, brand, and perception - in the buying public domain.
Let me answer my own rhetorical question about A8L v LS430: mostly suspension/wheel setup. Remember, HELM owners mostly don't care about skidpads and all that other mushy stuff
Ford is arguably just as guilty. Neither of them can make a modern, smooth and refined 4-cyl engine. Ford skirts around this by having Mazda do it (and practically everything else having to do with cars) for them. GM instead just gives it the old college try, and has the raspy, buzz-box ecotec, like something Kia would've used 5 years ago.
While Ford's 3.0L OHC Duratec is ancient, its 4.0L OHC engine is from the paleolithic era. Same goes for GM's "3800" OHV! 6. Both loathe to spend money on any kind of modernization unless its absolutely necessary. At least Cadillac gets a reasonably competitive platform and engines for the CTS and STS. Lincoln is even more "yestertech" than Buick.