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Spy-photos appear to reveal a much more stylish truck-probably at a significantly higher price.
once upon a time Lexus was a value story, when it was competing with Lincoln and Candillac
WAS a value story? How 'bout IS a value story?
comes to think of it, almost every single real luxury brand had its roots in outstanding reliability compared to its contemporaries,
So untrue. Consider that the British luxury cars were not so reliable as you claim. It isn't until recent history that Jaguar, for example, has ever been considered a truly reliable car.
Nowadays, Mercedes is the cheap source of luxury-branded cars thanks to heavily subsidized leases. It certainly beats the alternative: extinction by trying to sell overpriced lemons
All just a pathetic portrayal of Mercedes Benz and what it represents, historically, present day, and as it moves into the future.
TagMan
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
APEAL stands for "Automotive Performance, Execution and Layout." It's entirely different from "Initial Quality."
IQ is a statistic study of manufacturing quality, whereas APEAL consists of many subjective fields, most of which have to do with design not manufacturing quality.
It is a 2000, doesn't have a nav or backup camera, and it guzzles. So the thought is that we want to improve on all those things (if only slightly, as regards mpg). And the LX replacement, allegedly coming in the spring, is going to be too big for us.
If you do, the MDX may be the right choice, and a new version is about to be released. Acura is known for one of the very best nav systems at any price, has a backup camera, bluetooth, fold-flat third row, and all of the latest. Its size hits a sweet spot as well. Something to consider if you need that third row.
TagMan
You nay want to see what happens with the GX as I'm told it may move up a notch in size to the LX size and go hybrid as well. I'm still wondering if they will ever make the HPX. The LS hybrid and HPX would be my first two choices for my needs and would look great inside the garage.
Nothing like an Audi, but I like Jags the best.
How would you compare an Audi to a Jag?
George Vreeland Hill
I know,
" the Automotive, Performance, Execution and Layout (APEAL) Study, which measures customer perceptions on the design, content, layout and performance of their new vehicles."
I was attempting to point out one would think a high IQS would translate into a high “perception of the design, content, layout and performance of their new vehicle” – APEAL; but more importantly a low IQS would tarnish the APEAL.
I gave a personal example of where that was not the case in my situation and that ultimately the surveys are useless because they are based on an individuals expectations, not the vehicles actual quality or functionality.
I generally prefer reviews/conclusions of “experts” such as Edmunds, C&D, etc, than an accumulated survey of auto reviews from people like my wife (it’s always made that sound isn’t it supposed to pull to the right I didn’t know you had to tighten the gas cap how do I set my seat memory position—2 years later)
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
And moreover, the A8 is not made anywhere else except Germany. No other manufacture has the support to build the precious aluminum body and quattro system. This is not to say that some parts are not domesticated from Asia, such as the optional Japanese Cherry wood interior..
Nothing to be ashamed of.
$60-75K is no small change.
However, many of these folks rationalize their purchase by saying the LS is much more reliable than the MB.
What nonsense!
I have never seen a MB, Audi or BMW stuck on the side of the road in the last 25 years.
Folks, face the truth:
Anybody who gets an S Class can get an LS, but not all LS buyers can step up to the price and prestige of the magnificent MB S Class- unanimously praised as one of the greatest sedans in the world-and priced accordingly.
BTW: AllData also backs this up. So 30% of this supposed service manager's saying could've been in for the free complimentary Audi Accessory of the owners choice? Maybe for installation of a special order part? Of the 29k(worldwide, 4800 US) Q7's sold, wonder how many are actually "breaking down" in Lexus talk? Hardly any.
What nonsense!
One could equally well say that "many S owners bought because they are insecure and needed a high-prestige car to feel better about themselves and show off to their neighbors, and then rationalize their purchase by saying they really bought not because of prestige and their own insecurities, but because of the heritage and styling of MB."
Once more the wool has been pulled over the eyes of a segment of foolish Americans as the LS is no more than a Toyota in most of the rest of the world.
I am not saying that the LS is not a very fine vehicle.
Toyotas are very fine vehicles-one of the best value plays across the board-from the Corolla all the way up to the LS.
BTW: Talking about the LX and GX here. For someone wanting a bloated Toyota, take the 4-Runner and add 3 inches of roof and , viola, you have a GX470, tipsy-turvy and all.
Even more simpler, add different lights and an "adaptive" air-suspension to the Land Cruiser, and viola, we can charge an extra 15k and call it a LX470. Nice trick, but no one's amazed......
Toyota hit a home run with their sociological/psychological analysis of the American consumer.
If they can rebadge a Land Cruiser with a few minor upgrades, charge an extra 15k and call it a Lexus LX470, more power to them.
Come on now! This sounds so foolish.
The last quality I would ascribe to someone driving a brand new S Class is "insecure."
With that being said, the Audi brand has all of it's competitor's rolled into one, and then some. This is not to say that the competitor's are lacking(albeit some are), but Audi has culptivated the marketplace so well in such a small timeframe. Case and Point: To be as ballsy as to sell a RS 4 at 70k (29% over a M3 and C55 AMG, 35% over the Yank but very cool Caddy CTS-v) only to have it fly off of the lots as fast as they can make them(a 1 year back log with 8k units planned for the world) speaks volumes about where the company is headed. The pre-orders for the S6/S8 are as far as into next summer only adds to this. Many a Lexican have complained about the Q7 being a :lemon: , but how can that be when it has only been on the US market for 2 months? The same goes for the S550, many jaws dropped when the reports showed the car to have a 96% better reliability and quality repore than the old W220. Such as life, you can't please them all..
Back to Jag. I for one appreciate the company for not following suit on the SUV craze as every manufacture isn't meant to have one. That's why LR is in PAG for. The company's quality has improved so much so that some have actually forgotten about the nuisances they once were. I've seen snippets of the X and S-Type replacements, and if the Aston guy who designed the new XK gets his hands around the concept that I saw, then we may be talking a different tune come '08... All in all, I dig Jag's XJ/XK, but the X/S-Type have gotta go. Soon preferrably....
I don't think this is a nonsense. This is truth
Lexus cars are more reliable than MB or BMW. I believe this is also part of the reason why certain amount of people choose lexus over other luxury brands.
However, I may agree the statement below
but not all LS buyers can step up to the price and prestige of the magnificent MB S Class- unanimously praised as one of the greatest sedans in the world-and priced accordingly.
From my own experience, I have had 3 BMW's with no problems.
Thousands of people have "taken the plunge" with Audi, MB and BMW and they didn't die.
Not wanting to step up to an S Class because "the LS is so much more reliable", is an irrational excuse, IMO and is probably being used as a cover for the true reason, whatever that may be.
Same goes for Mercedes' prestige.
And BMW's drivability.
DrFill
Now you're talking a $90k v. a $180k and a $340k cars? Somethings not quelling very well here. The FS costs more than double what a S550 starts, and 340 large Phantom???
The S is only 25-30k more than a comparible LS, and thus, that is why it is in it's class. The same for the S600, and the FS, while the S600 is 140k, the FS is 180, a full 40k over it's price range.
The LS and S-Class are direct competitors and it is logical for an LS owner to aspire to the S-Class.
It is illogical for an S-Class owner to aspire to a Flying Spur or Phantom which are quantum leaps away in price.
[link corrected]
LS:S Class = S Class:Phantom
If the S is so attainable, why do you claim that many LS owners would buy one, but don't because they can't afford one? If they can't afford one, doesn't that mean by definition, that it isn't so easily attainable? Please try to be logical in your thinking. Please.
And what I'm saying is that not all insecure people can afford cars in the Phantom and Flying Spur price range. Why do you find it so hard to accept a statement like that?
BlkHemi, I haven't caught up to the rest posts but wanted to answer your rhetorical question here: As someone who spends time in Japan annually, I have come to know that the name "TOYOTA" is the gold-standard in Japan. That was why the Celsior was branded a Toyota in Japan, and an LS in the rest of the world. The Celsior is the real deal Lexus. Made specifically for a purpose... not in the true traditional Toyota production, but raised to a bar never before seen within Toyota. To know more about the LS, visit any Lexus dealer and read up on the making of the LS.
By contrast, just like America favors foreign goods over locally produced ones, same it is in Japan. The thirst for foreing cars - BMW, MB, Audi, VW - makes these cars good sellers in Japan. Class is important and these German marques brings that to the uber-rich Japanese. Lexus will take some time to grow its name brand in its local market. With time we'll see if Lexus becomes a recognized brand in its home country to rival its German competition. But I suspect it will take a very long time to happen, due to the reasons I laid out earlier.
blkhemi and syswei - too bad you both fell for his post. This is exactly what the guy was trying to accomplish.
Jaguar was first and foremost a sporting car brand built by makers of motocycles and sidecars (similar to BMW). Its success rooted in rally success of the pre-WWII era . . . not the overpriced lemons of the 70's and 80's. The overpriced lemons of the 70's and 80's only turned Jaguar into a Ford brand.
Reliability is at the root of almost every luxury car brand's rise to prominence, including MB's own. How long an empire can survive past its prime is an interesting study.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
Guess they don't have your awesome insight which seems to be if you don't like a post with a ring of truth to it, you resort to condescending character assasination.
In one post you managed to insult 3 of us-Blkhemi, Syswei and me.
They responded to me, not because they "fell" for my post, but because they saw the merit in it.
Sales of the 7 Series are up 11.4% for the first 7 months of the year.
The results are fantastic!
Even better, the S Class sales are up an astonishing 95.8% for this year.
Yes. Looks like the new LS doesn't stand much of a chance.
My condolences. Heh! Heh!
You are on a roll tonight hpowders.
I guess you remember when I first posted that statement a couple of months ago, and you embraced its true meaning and replied about "logic 101" at the time.
Keep up the good work.
TagMan
When I mentioned the LS is a rebadged Toyota, which is a fact, I am told I must be having a bad night and am looking for a war.
I understand his frustration-being duped by Toyota like that.
We are entrusted with a noble task,Tagman-defending the best vehicles in the world in their price-class from irrational attacks by the sonambulant gated-shifters of this world.
Merc1 - you and I are buddies and I'll always post back to you on the boards I stay on as we've been at this in the right way, and in a positive way (or at least it always ended positive) for so many years now.