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High End Luxury Cars

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Comments

  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    Sorry to hear you had "issues" with the mighty LS. :cry:

    DrFill
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Some artist. The driver looks like an "Aryan" from the 1940's.
    Heh! Heh!


    lol. Max Headroom, or something to that effect. You've really got me cracking up here. :D

    But, c'mon already. What did you think of the video of the REAL R8? Don't tell me you couldn't see it because you're on dial-up or something like that. All Bimmer owners have DSL, right? ;)

    TagMan
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    This new Audi one-ups Mercedes and BMW in that they don't have a true "sports car" in their lineup. The SLR is a GT car in reality, and the BMW M Roadster and M Coupe are sports cars, but they aren't 911-grade like this new R8. Now watch as BMW and Mercedes bring out real sports cars in the next 2-3 years. BMW will do it on their own and Mercedes will either let AMG loose to do it their way (as they did with the new V8) or they'll lean on McLaren again. Anyway, this new Audi is stunning and full of interesting details:

    image

    First BMW with their new X5 and now Audi, new shifter designs abound. Mercedes will come up with one that shift by looking at it or mount it on the roof.

    This R8 is a "platform sharing" done at the highest and most competent level possible. Brilliant.

    M
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    This new Audi one-ups Mercedes and BMW in that they don't have a true "sports car" in their lineup. The SLR is a GT car in reality, and the BMW M Roadster and M Coupe or sports car, but they aren't 911-grade like this new R8.

    Anyway, this new Audi is stunning and full of interesting details

    Finally. I knew you'd come through. I've been trying, but failing miserably, to wake up this sleepy crowd to this beautiful and interesting new R8.

    So, thanks for coming to the resue.

    Did you, by chance see the video on the R8 microsite? It's well done, IMO. Here's the link again, just in case anybody missed it.

    link title

    I would love to drive this car, if I ever get the chance.

    TagMan
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Np. ;)

    Did you, by chance see the video on the R8 microsite? It's well done, IMO

    Not yet, I'm still reading all the details as well as all the hoopla on other sites I belong to. The Audi guys are doing cyber back flips and cartwheels!

    More importantly the R8 finally gives Audi a true gee-whiz car, something they need badly from a brand point of view. All sedans, wagons and suvs is boring no matter how gorgeous they are when you don't have something special in the lineup. The A4/S4 Cabrios can only generate so much fizz!

    M
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    More importantly the R8 finally gives Audi a true gee-whiz car, something they need badly from a brand point of view. All sedans, wagons and suvs is boring no matter how gorgeous they are when you don't have something special in the lineup.

    This Audi R8 . . . it is a huge breath of fresh air, IMO. I wait and wait as the years go by, and I truly relish the rare and wonderful moments when a significant automotive achievement happens.

    This is one of those moments, IMO. This Audi R8 is a masterful creation.

    I expect and hope the road tests ultimately prove it to be nothing short of sensational, as I believe it is.

    Yes, brilliant.

    TagMan
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Gasp!

    image

    image

    image

    image

    The killer part of this car is in the details. The Audi interior masters really worked hard on this one.

    This is one of those moments, IMO. This Audi R8 is a masterful creation. I hope the road tests ultimately prove it to be nothing short of sensational, as I believe it is.

    Now the biggest question is whether or not we'll see that new 6.0L V12 diesel in the R8 engine bay! I'll predict that in addition to the diesel they'll be some version of the V10 in the S6/S8 and maybe even a W12 version. The W12's compact engine design will come into play here. The price for this first RS4-engined version is like 104,000 Euros from what I'm reading.

    M
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Between the two LS', they went 9 times, 3 times severe involving the engine sludge and tranny probs...

    These things happen. My '96 LS needed new rear shocks at 90K miles. The '01 needed a new oil seal awhile back. Thats it. Both issues were taken care of during regular scheduled service. From what I understand, the vast majority of LS ownership experiences are very positive. Lexus has a very high repeat customer rate, and its certainly not due to sexy styling or world class handling.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    The killer part of this car is in the details

    That's right, merc.

    The closer you look, the better it looks!

    and . . .

    The more you look, the more you like!

    Your comment on the powerplants is perceptive, because it illustrates that those Audi engineers and designers have engineered and designed a bright and exciting future into this car as well.

    TagMan
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    because it illustrates that those Audi engineers and designers have engineered and designed a bright and exciting future into this car as

    Oh definitely. European carmakers rarely design a vehicle that won't accept most of their engines. VW made a rare mistake when they designed the current Golf-Rabbit/Jetta platform in a way that they aren't able to fit the Passat's 3.6L V6 into it. A rare, but big blunder IMO. A R36 version of either the Jetta or Rabbit would have been hellish. A 280hp version of the new Eos would have been the icing on the cake for that car, IMO.

    The German big three stuff every engine they have into nearly all their cars except for the extremes likes V12s in C-Classes/A4 and 4-cylinders in the upper models like a S or 7-Series, but nearly every engine in between does duty everywhere. Mercedes plugged the new 5.5L V8 in CL/E/SL/CLK/CLS in a matter of months after it debuted in the S-Class. Ditto for the new AMG V8, it will be everywhere in a matter of months. Gotta love a de-badged BMW/Mercedes/Audi on the autobahn in Germany. It could be a wheezing 190hp diesel or a 604hp V12 monster!

    M
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    German big three stuff every engine they have into nearly all their cars

    Interestingly that is currently not the case with BMW. The 3.0 twin turbo is sold solely in the 3 series. BMW has no intention at this point of time in introducing a 535i. (assuming the news I read so far is not outdated).

    I find the 07 model year for BMWs quite peculiar. BMW 530/525s will sell side by side with BMW 335i and 328i models. Doesn't make much sense to me since bigger and more expensive models do deserve more power?

    Although that is not as bad as in the UK where they still sell BMW 523i models. In the late 90s I rememember being shocked when I saw a BMW 518i (e39) in London England.
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Member Posts: 1,681
    Probably outdated; I can't see a small company like that spending the resources developing that engine exclusively for the 3 series.

    With the 335's nice torque characteristics I'd expect it to go into everything...all the way up to the 7 series (for Euro cars that is).

    The 5 series does seem to have been left “hanging” with the older engines. A 535 wagon (6 spd) would make a nice family hauler.

    Unless of course it was just a “stop gap” and they have something even better coming (what could be better?).
  • dhamiltondhamilton Member Posts: 878
    this Audi kool-aid drinker is right with y'all. Boy that car is stunning. As always with Audi, the devil is in the details. I posted a while ago about spotting two new S6's at my local Audi dealer. [1 of 3 dealers actually] The attention to detail is astonishing, the double piped stitching was riveting. Not a suspect stitch anywhere. Simply gorgeous... I could go on and on.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Although that is not as bad as in the UK where they still sell BMW 523i models. In the late 90s I rememember being shocked when I saw a BMW 518i (e39) in London England.

    I felt the same way when I first saw an Merc E200 in the UK.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Yet another award for troubled Jaguar . . . "Car of the Year"!

    link title

    Since the Jaguar XK went on sale in March this year, Jaguar has taken more than 9,000 orders and delivered 5,000 vehicles worldwide. The XK has won eight awards in total since its launch, including ‘Car of the Year’ at the Auto Express Awards 2006.

    Hard to believe?

    TagMan
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    hpowders - you are so right about Hyundai. Here's some more proof.

    link title

    TagMan
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Well you're not into SUV pigs.

    I have difficulty understanding why most North Americans prefer heavier SUVs that can easily be out-handled and out-performed by far lighter wagons that have about the same and in some cases even more interior space?

    Ofcourse I would favor a SUV myself if lived in a rural area where off-roading is a requirement. But if that was the case then I would definitely favor a truck-like SUV over those focus-marketing group car-like crossover creations like the BMW X3 or the Lexus RX350.
  • sysweisyswei Member Posts: 1,804
    I think it is partly image and partly utility. Surely the germancarfans here can understand the desire for "image"?

    What do I mean by utility? Compare an E wagon to a GX or LX for instance. If you want people in the third row on occasion, the third row is less roomy on the E, and any cargo will potentially be sloshing around and hitting those passengers. Plus, the cargo space in a SUV is generally much taller than in a wagon.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    , but you really won't know this until the specs for the next M3 are made known. I think BMW knows that the next M3 has to be smashingly brilliant to warrant the expense over a mere 335i.

    That may very well be the case.

    But a twin turbo producing only about 35 to 40 hp more than a naturally aspirated i6 seems to me a mere sliver of what potential a twin turbo really has. I am almost certain that in the not too distant future BMW will have a more potent 340hp/340 lbs torque twin turbo engines to compete with the likes of a future 3.7L powered Infiniti G .

    And in that future case the V8 400hp/320 lbs of torque engine in the M3 will appear less impressive.

    This is all speculation on my part and I may be completely wrong. BUT all I can say is that BMWs top priority will be to make their "bread and butter" BMWs far more powerful in order to exceed or keep up with the likes of far more potent future Infinitis and Lexuses even if that means cannibalizing sales of their M series.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    What is all this hullabalooo about Hyundai?

    The spanking new Hyundai Sonata has difficulty competing with the new Camry or even the dated Accord. Hyundai still has a long way to go in this mainstream sedan segment let alone in the luxury/perfomrance sedan segment.

    As I mentioned previously I cant complain about the greatness of Hyundai styling but I am still awaiting greatness in Hyundai drivetrain/chassis engineering!

    Before Lexus existed Toyota was renowned for its good engineering. That is currently not the case with Hyundai.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Ofcourse I would favor a SUV myself if lived in a rural area where off-roading is a requirement. But if that was the case then I would definitely favor a truck-like SUV over those focus-marketing group car-like crossover creations like the BMW X3 or the Lexus RX350.

    The RX appeals to a certain type of person. My wife is not a driving enthusiast, so the superior handling of a wagon was not important to her. She's a shortie (5'4") and a high driving position makes her feel safe. She also didn't want to buy German, and the only wagon available from the Japan three was the IS 5-door, which didn't have AWD, the driving position, or the space she wanted.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Syswei and Lexusguy,

    your choices are definitely justifiable. It all depends on your or your spouse's priorities.
    But in my paritcular case the sacrifice in performance/handling is just too high with any SUV.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Thanks for the link. Hyundai is definitely sneaking up there but as Lexusguy notes, the tough part may be overtaking Honda, not Toyota.

    I see enough good writeups on the Accord EX V6, to test drive one and potentially add it to my collection of one as an inducement to get my wife to learn to drive. I ain't getting any younger. Somebody's got to take me for those dreaded "visits" when I am starting to rapidly oxidize.

    No. She CANNOT practice on the 545! ;)
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Well, as you are aware, the MDX was tested on a German racing track. The handling is there. But the mpg is dismal.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    No. She CANNOT practice on the 545!

    LOL,

    I taught my automatic driving wife how to drive manual with my BMW323 (e46). I still wonder if the new owner of my 323i is using the same clutch?
  • sysweisyswei Member Posts: 1,804
    the MDX was tested on a German racing track. The handling is there. But the mpg is dismal.

    MPG is only dismal in comparison to less-roomy sedans. It is actually pretty good compared to other SUVs. For instance, Edumund's first drive of the MDX: "17/22 mpg despite the increase in output and approximate 100-pound weight gain....the 2007 MDX is more fuel-efficient than the X5 3.0i's 15/19 mpg or [V6] Cayenne's 15/21 mpg." I don't have numbers but imho the MDX will prove roomier than either of the Germans, to boot.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    What gets me about the SUV people is how so many of them drive them like they are 325i's. Quite recklessly, IMO.

    I asked my lady neighbor next door why she drives an SUV. She told me it is definitely safer than a sedan.
    I didn't answer. Can't talk higher center of gravity with someone like that.
    These folks think that all wheel drive is going to save them in a sharp emergency maneuver. Tragically, some of them will find out otherwise.
  • sysweisyswei Member Posts: 1,804
    What gets me about the SUV people is how so many of them drive them like they are 325i's. Quite recklessly, IMO.

    People feel safer in SUVs and that encourages reckless driving. Are the SUVs actually safer? Depends on what your are looking for. A 5000-lb SUV is safer in a crash with a 4000-lb car than another 4000-lb car is. But as you point out, the high center of gravity makes the SUV worse in other respects.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    People feel safer in SUVs and that encourages reckless driving. Are the SUVs actually safer? Depends on what your are looking for. A 5000-lb SUV is safer in a crash with a 4000-lb car than another 4000-lb car is.

    That's very questionable. Take the Civic, for example. A small and lightweight car should fare poorly in a crash, yet its gotten perfect test scores. Meanwhile, plenty of SUVs do very poorly.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    I see enough good writeups on the Accord EX V6, to test drive one and potentially add it to my collection of one as an inducement to get my wife to learn to drive.

    Just about every review I've seen of the Accord says its a great car that could be magnificent if it had proper tires on it. Honda saddles it with very mediocre A\S OEM tires. Fortunately, thats a very easy problem to fix. I'm pretty sure it has the most 10-best wins of any car, and thats hard to ignore. Btw, since the Accord Hybrid has been a general sales failure, I'm sure there are good deals on them.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Probably outdated; I can't see a small company like that spending the resources developing that engine exclusively for the 3 series.

    They definitely will spread the engines to other models. But it may take sometime. The X3 had a dated 225 hp 3.0L engine for a quite a while until they recently updated it.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Well, the first thing I would do is upgrade the tires.
    Worth every penny and so easy to fix.

    Not interested in the hybrid. Had enough test drives with "electric" steering and brakes. Enough already!
    In addition, so many people have posted over yonder at Honda that they are disappointed with the mpg-it's only 2 mpg better than the V6. I'll take the loss on the mpg.
    Besides, I like my sunroof and need a decent sized trunk.
    If only it looked a little better-that has to be one of the most uninspired rear-ends ever.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    And enough people have posted that they are disappointed with the mpg-it's only 2 mpg better than the V6.

    True. Also, with the Accord's recent power boost, I'm pretty sure the EX-V6 can now keep up with the hybrid in terms of 0-60.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    A V6 Accord with a stick would be my number one pick within that price range.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    I'm looking forward to driving one soon.

    Great way to inspire my wife to drive: Put it outside the garage blocking her golf cart. :)
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    I want my wife to learn to drive as simply as possible.
    A stick would turn her off completely.

    Funniest thing I ever saw was when Natalie Gulbis, the wonderful LPGA golfer, spent some of her winnings on a Dodge Viper. This incredibly talented golfer, was having a terribly frustrating time attempting to learn the fine art of the stick shift from her dad.
    Priceless stuff!
  • sysweisyswei Member Posts: 1,804
    Take the Civic, for example. A small and lightweight car should fare poorly in a crash, yet its gotten perfect test scores. Meanwhile, plenty of SUVs do very poorly.

    Certain crash test results are not designed to be used for comparison purposes across vehicle categories:

    Frontal crash rating results can only be compared to other vehicles in the same class and whose weight is plus or minus 250 lbs of the vehicle being rated. This is so because a frontal crash rating into a fixed barrier represents a crash between two vehicles of the same weight. source

    So "perfect" scores really mean perfect compared to similar vehicles.

    Also, take a look at this viewpoint:
    link title

    That article is pretty one-sided. All I'm saying, though, is that the safety issue doesn't entirely favor sedans over SUVs. It is more of a mixed picture, in my view.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    "S-Type’s secret weapon, though, is Callum’s dramatic styling that returns Jaguar to the “four-door coupe” look largely dismissed on today’s more practical designs. With its twin-nostril grille inspired by the 1968 XJ6, the styling is said to be “very aggressive for a Jaguar,” according to a source.

    Jaguar has avoided copying Audi’s single-frame grille design, and the S-Type will have separate upper and lower grilles split by a license plate box on the bumper bar.

    One-piece headlights, inspired by the new XK, will feature twin projector beams, giving the impression of a traditional twin-headlight Jaguar front end."

    "New S-Type engines will likely include the company’s first 5.0-liter V8, producing about 350 hp. A supercharged R version is rumored to punch out 460 hp. Smaller V6 gasoline engines based on current powerplants will be available at launch, but ultimately they will be replaced by a Jaguar version of the new Volvo inline-six. Also under consideration is a turbocharged 3.2-liter I6, which may get the green light thanks to better fuel economy than V8s."

    "With sporty and elegant character high on Jaguar’s wish list, the XJ will return to the theme of the previous-generation XJ, a lower and sleeker design than today’s model. “Think of their inspiration as a better-developed Maserati Quattroporte,” says one insider."

    "Jaguar sources say the company is hellbent on retaining a four-model range, but it still doesn’t know what to do about the X-Type. There is no replacement or reskin in the cycle plan, but Jaguar must make a call fairly soon if it hopes to have an X-Type for 2010 that meets Europe’s new pedestrian-impact laws. Jaguar reportedly has all sorts of ideas on the drawing board, but none have been approved. For example, plans to borrow the Mazda RX-8/MX-5 platform for a small sports car or coupe have foundered because the chassis is too tight for a V6 engine."

    Autoweek
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Unfortunately, the "article" comes up "website address could not be found." :(
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Very sleek-that new S-type. I like it much better than that silver batmobile with the computer-generated "perfect man" driving it!
    LMAO!!
  • sysweisyswei Member Posts: 1,804
    Corrected the link, you can try it again.
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Member Posts: 1,681
    But a twin turbo producing only about 35 to 40 hp more than a naturally aspirated i6 seems to me a mere sliver of what potential a twin turbo really has.

    That is what I initially thought. I actually thought...what's the point of the turbos if they don't crank it up?

    But then the performance results came out; 13.5 for quarter mile is pretty good for a sedan in this segment.

    And then the tests of the 335 on a dyno shows it makes close to 300hp 300lb-ft at the wheels...so the engine output figures are almost meaningless.

    Anyway...published hp figures aren't for enthusiasts anyway (the Elise being a good example); and they probably shouldn't be taken too seriously by regular drivers. Back in the day...I took a 99 Lexus SC400 out and thought...this is no where near 300hp. A couple years earlier I was pinned back in the seat test driving a 300XZ TT. Different cars I know...but still...
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Thanks for the correction.

    Well it's true that if you are driving a tank which happens to collide with a Civic, you will most likely walk out of the tank.

    The problem is that IMO, the most aggressive drivers on the road happen to be in big SUV's. They drive 'em like invincible tanks.

    Most vehicles that try to outgun my 545 unquestionably are SUV's. No doubt about it. I only play that game with other sedans and my favorite white whale, the red-neck pick-up truck. Don't want any part of the SUV death-wishers.

    Why are the SUV'ers so aggressive? I believe it's because of all that advertising telling consumers how stable they are with everything from stability control to all-wheel drive.
    The uncomfortable truth regarding tip-overs is never mentioned.

    I have a feeling that quite a few SUV purchasers would have second thoughts if they knew about potential tip-overs. I bet quite a few don't know.

    If I have to swerve away sharply from another vehicle at speed...let's just say I would rather be in my 545 than any SUV. You can take that to the bank!

    I plan on driving the new MDX just to check out its routine handling, but I know I would never in good conscience, actually purchase one. Couldn't sleep soundly with that high center of gravity.
    As a science person, I am a great believer in the natural laws of physics.
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,327
    LG, sorry to see you had all these problems with your two mighty LS's. They are much improved since then. Now kindly stop the bashing please!! ;)

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,327
    OK, OK, the real one looks much better. Quite a bit of Porsche influence? That video is downright sinister. A real Bad Boy!

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,327
    Well, there are test scores and then there are real world mishaps. If a big SUV and a Civic are going to crash head on, I'll take the SUV thank you.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • ivan_99ivan_99 Member Posts: 1,681
    Why are the SUV'ers so aggressive? I believe it's because of all that advertising telling consumers how stable they are with everything from stability control to all-wheel drive.

    Most vehicles that try to outgun my 545 unquestionably are SUV's.


    Partly correct...it is the EGO boost that comes with the large SUV purchase decision. Once you accelerate hard and “put the SUV in its place” the crushed fragile EGO of the driver causes embarrassment that usually translates to anger...and a justified action to right the wrong you inflicted...

    I usually see Suburban's and F150's tearing up the road like they were Miata's; in the back of my mind I'm thinking “they're gonna wipe out any second”. I've actually been behind two (separate occasions) have have ended up in the ditch (cart wheeling...end over end).

    Now the smaller ones, X5, Q7, MDX (Pilot)...I think are just too cool to buy min-vans ;)
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    LG, sorry to see you had all these problems with your two mighty LS's. They are much improved since then. Now kindly stop the bashing please!!

    Yeah it was pretty awful. I had to sign a form when they came to the house to drop off my ES330 loaner, and then I had to wait like two whole days until they brought my car back. Lexus stinks.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    I usually see Suburban's and F150's tearing up the road like they were Miata's; in the back of my mind I'm thinking “they're gonna wipe out any second”.

    It is rather strange that the cars and trucks that have no high speed capabilities are always the ones going 110mph. Meanwhile, most Vettes and Porsches are going 65.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    What you describe in your first paragraph would be true for a driver in any type of vehicle, not specifically SUV's.
    "Getting even" road rage is not an SUV-specific disease.

    Anyhow, I would feel a lot safer driving any of the HELMs discussed on this board than any SUV.
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