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Any state using the EZPass technology could do this. In fact, any toll highway could have done it for many years. They don't, for many reasons but the most practical consideration is that no one would use it. there would be endless challenges over the accuracy of the system and all kinds of other protest.
Own a firearm in many Northeastern states and you'll see what it's like to be treated like a criminal even though you are not. Then you'll understand why it won't happen.
If this is your idea of "user friendly" I'm going somewhere else.
You can drop by the Forums Software discussion and report your difficulties. Try to be a little more specific because it's not clear exactly what is happening to you. Explain what links or drop downs you are using that aren't taking you where you want and if you are getting errors, report them as exactly as possible.
Hope you'll follow through with this suggestion - we'll get everything worked out for you!
My wife and I have owned a new Odyssey EX-L since February and we frequently use the automatic climate control in a fully manual mode without the AC on. We've been enjoying some rather cool (for us) springtime weather here in central Texas and we have NOT noticed any excess heat coming from the vents in the fresh air mode. And I'm fairly cetain that if the air from the fresh air vents was at 110 degrees, my wife would notice.
Just curious; how do you know this is endemic to all of the new Odyssey's rather than just your example?
If there are gaps in the insulation seal due to a manufacturering defect (ie. the seal is supposed to be air tight), then the issue should be resolved under warrantee. However, if the seal is not designed to be airtight but is designed to simply reduce the amount of heat entering the fresh air vents, then with all due respect I think you will get a lot further towards resolving your issue by taking measures yourself to seal up any gaps you may find. Otherwise, I think you will expend a lot of effort trying to drum up complaints for an issue you could solve in 15 minutes with some foam weatherstriping and sealant.
If you find gaps in the insulation seal, fill them. Like I've stated previously, my wife runs the fresh air vents w/ no AC when she is DRIVING (as opposed to sitting in traffic) and has had absolutely no problem with excess heat coming from the vents. It is possible that when the van is idling in one place for an extended period of time, the engine heat will NATUALLY heat up the outside air before it gets to the fresh air vents. Taking a look at the underhood packaging on the Odyssey, I'm not surprised there is some seepage of heat into the fresh air ducts; IMO it would be difficult to avoid. Referring to this as a design 'defect' requiring a recall may be a bit of a stretch. Is it possible this same thing occurred on previous Odysseys?
Now, as to whether this issue affects your gas mileage (on topic at last!); consider this: if the engine heat is affecting the fresh air temperature ONLY WHILE THE VEHICLE IS STOPPED, then I don't see how the AC system having to work 'extra hard' to cool the vehicle would affect your mileage. You are STOPPED. You gas mileage is 0.0 mpg. If the AC is already on, then you are not consuming ANY more gas to make the AC work 'harder'. The only way I can see this a being a problem would be if you habitually run fresh air and no AC in stop'n'go driving. Rather than inhaling all those fumes from the other traffic, my wife and I typically put the system on recirc and run the AC. Apparently, the problem doesn't occur when you are actually moving, therefore there is no actual drain on the AC system and mileage should be unaffected.
None of this is to be confused with idol, which, in the American TV version, is somehow managing a lot more mileage than it deserves (though I'll admit to watching it myself!).
I think the issue that oneconsumer is having though is that he would PREFER to run the fresh air vents only (no AC if feasible, therefore maximizing his fuel economy) but is unable to do this (at least while the vehicle is stationary) due to the heat seepage issue. And even though fuel economy is typically measured as "mpg" (which would obviously stay at 0.0 if vehicle is stationary), economy can also be measured as gallons/hour (the way it is measured for airplanes), in which case the fuel economy is lowered if oneconsumer must run his AC while the vehicle is stationary.
At this point though, I'm curious: how many vehicles really do that good of a job isolating the fresh air vents/ducts from engine heat seepage. :confuse:
re: American Idol - I can proudly state that I've never seen an episode of American Idol. Ever. The only awareness I have of that show is from commercials. From the look of the commercials, I'd put American Idol right up there with Entertainment Tonight. And to that list also include Fear Factor, The Nanny, The Bachelor/Bachelorette, etc. etc. That stuff will turn your brain into green jello. Nooooooo thanks.....
The service advisor did indicate that the insulation gaps were not found in pre-2005 Odyssey. I do not recommend any body to seal the gaps themselves, for if the seal should have fallen out of place and got entangled with the belts, the warrantee may be forfeited. Besides, it's not our responsibility to fix the problem.
Most importantly, I think the insulation gaps are not the only place that heated air leaks into the vent duct. If the heated air gets into the vent duct through other places, then the AC would have to work harder and consequently reduce the fuel efficiency, no matter the car is moving or stopped.
My goal for this posting is to invide all new Odyssey owners to test drive their cars the way I suggested and find out if they have the hot air problem.
We seem to have crept up to the low-17s for around town driving on the EX-L (now up to 4K on it). Still about 10% better than our '99 QUest, and about 100% more powerful and comfortable.
We really haven't used the AC yet (no need), although my wife might turn it on occasionally. We usually either have the climate on manual (no AC), or just turned off and windows or roof open. I haven't noticed any hot air that I can recall. I also don't turn the fan on high becasue it bugs me to listen to it.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Drove 25 miles around town before going and 39 miles around a town during the trip or overall gas mileage would have been better than the 27.8 MPG average for the round trip.
My nephew tells me his 2005 Odyssey EX is getting about 23 MPG on trips.
As a scientific comparison, how about putting the pedal to the metal on your next trip? Drive like a mad man...Like a bat outta hell ! It may cost you a little more in gas money...but will give all of us some important information on the difference in mpg when driving to the extremes.
An accurate mileage driving I-80 across Wyoming is not possible as the winds are usually horrific. 1980 Chevy van would get 16 MPG driving westbound on I-80 and 26 MPG eastbound.
1. Those that got low mpg (14-18) are models with automatic climate control. The "hot air" problem (see previous posts) would kick off the AC even in a cool day when outside temperature is below cabin's, because hot air leaked from the engine to the vent duct would require AC to work most of the time.
2. Those reporting good mpg are Odyssey owner without automatic climate control and were driving and reporting during the winter months. Since the engine "hot air" leaked into the cabin was used to warm up the cabin when outside air is cold. Thus no AC and no extra gas is needed.
3. The 19 mpg claims by Honda and government agency were probable based on road test that happened during the winter months and on vehicles without automatic climate control or with it turned off.
However this is my guess. We need some testimonies to confirm the findings.
Focus on the topic of discussion, please.
The new Odysseys have been on sale for several months, there have been hundreds and hundreds of posts in the Odyssey problems and solutions thread and yet NOT A SINGLE ONE related to the "hot air" issue.....until oneconsumer started posting last week.
Now Monday rolls around, oneconsumer is nowhere to be found.....yet now, on your first day in the Townhall, you are posting in multiple threads about the "hot air" issue as though it is gospel that it affects all Odyssey's with automatic climate control......just like oneconsumer (and only oneconsumer) was advocating.
Two possiblities -
a) you are oneconsumer under a different screen name. Against TH rules.
b) your are not oneconsumer and you are a brand new TH participant. In which case I would like to point out that the "hot air" issue has been voice by a SINGLE poster who was trying like heck to advance the theory that this was a 'major design defect' and was attempting to start a grass roots surge to get Honda to issue a recall. Even though several Odyssey owners have tested their vans (and were unable to duplicate the problem), this individual was still convinced this was a widespread problem.
Bottom line - this "hot air" issue does not appear to be a widespread problem. As far as mileage goes, now that our Odyssey EX-L is broken in (turned over 10k miles this weekend), the mileage has improved. My wife is generally averaging 19.5-20 in her usual mix of 75% city/25% hwy. We took a trip to Colorado in mid April; we had 4 consecutive tanks in excess of 24 mpg with a high of around 25.5 mpg. Not exactly stellar mileage but definitely getting better.
I think, mileage apologists (and optimists!) notwithstanding, all simply have to face the fact that you cannot keep the same exemplary mileage while heaping on the creature comforts and features we all demand. It was true in the 1960's as the originally stripped-down "muscle cars" became bloated, middle-aged semi-sporty cars to appeal to a more spoiled audience. It is true now with the newer, more-refined, more luxurious, quieter, safer, and thus, heavier not-so-mini-vans out on the real roads.
As comedian Steven Wright once so eloquently observed, "You can't have it all (long, seemingly spaced-out, pregnant pause). Where would you keep it?"
My 2002 Chrysler T&C LX that has a legitimate heater and front and rear airconditioning gets much better gas mileage on the road than my 1976 VW Bus did with the anemic, lethargic 4 cyl engine. However, in town the mileage is about the same.
As you pointed out, EPA estimates are pretty much nonsense for all but the most careful driver under ideal conditions. But that is true for virtually every vehicle, and the high weight of minivans makes it particularly true for them. IMO a subtraction of 10-15% is the place to start for an accurate estimate with Sienna, before considering your "typical" drive---a lot of stop and go will kill your mileage in a van.
My sense anecdotally is that 17-18 city and 23-24 (maybe a bit more) is reasonably achievable for your average driver in your average Sienna on average roads. The AWD version will probably not get that on city roads, and some people have reported genuinely poor (13-14) mileage in an AWD around town. Although this might be a bit of a crackpot theory, I also think that LEs, on average, get slightly better mileage than XLEs and Limiteds, and there are actually a couple of reasons why this might even be true. I do know that most of the "wow, that's good mileage" Sienna's I've read about have been LEs.
But, above all, take this FWIW.
Aren't you supposing to get 28 mpg (as Honda claims), given the fact that your trip was basically in highway and in a cold month (mid April) when AC was not supposed to be on? I think donhagner's theory may explain why you did not get 28 mpg, that is, your AC was forced to turn on to combat the hot air.
Now you can apparently analyze someone else's mileage, from thousands of miles away, and determine that DESPITE THE FACT I HAVE CHECKED MY HVAC SYSTEM AND FOUND NO EXCESS HEAT PROBLEM, you are convinced that my mileage is subpar due to hot air?
Has it occured to you that maybe we weren't driving at an economy stretching 48 mph? Maybe the we had the cruise control set at 75 mph? Maybe it was the load of passengers plus all the luggage for 4 people for two weeks? Maybe it was, hmmmm, the MOUNTAINS?
And besides which, if it was COLD OUTSIDE, then why would the AC be running to combat the hot air? Wouldn't we have been running the heater ANYWAY? And FYI, mileage typically goes DOWN in the colder months, not UP.
And I'm right there with you hansienna. I agree that the increased mass of minivans (both over other, smaller vehicles and over the older minivan models) means greater inertia to overcome on each and every acceleration. IOW more gallons burned in real world driving.
Of course, in Texas, driving "within the posted speed limits" even out "on the open highway" may well result in serious damage to your vehicle :sick: (bullet holes, run-off-the-road damage, but certainly many frowns :mad: , visibly-ranting drivers, and gesticulations unsuitable for a family venue :surprise: ). We don't seem to extend too much hospitality to our highways and byways down this-away....
lumbar (how's your back?): that was a very helpful and reasonable assessment of expectations, IMHO. Thanks.
Example: Van A (22 mpg) has 10% higher EPA mpg than van B (20 mpg). Then, on the road, van A (20 mpg) will still get 10% higher mpg than van B (18 mpg).
Of course it's interesting to know real world MPG, but if you are going to buy a van, you can look at EPA numbers for help in your decision.
In the case of Dodge Caravan SE 3.3L, Toyota Sienna LE and Honda Odyssey EX, EPA numbers are almost the same, so on the road you should have almost the same real world mpg for those 3 brands.
EPA equivalent numbers in Canada (UK gallons):
Dodge Caravan SE 3.3L = 23 City - 34 Highway
Toyota Sienna LE = 23 City - 34 Highway
Honda Odyssey EX = 23 City - 33 Highway
EPA equivalent numbers in Canada (US gallons):
Dodge Caravan SE 3.3L = 19 City - 29 Highway
Toyota Sienna LE = 19 City - 29 Highway
Honda Odyssey EX = 19 City - 28 Highway
Consumer Reports does it all the time in their real world tests. They got the Odyssey at 28 and the Sienna at 27 mpg.
City numbers can't really be compared because everybody has a different defination of city.
varies among vehicles of the same make and model, and it will
vary over time for an individual vehicle. Many factors affect a
vehicle’s fuel economy:
When, where, and how the vehicle is driven: Frequent acceleration
and braking necessary in stop-and-go traffic and on hilly
terrain hurt fuel economy, and aggressive driving (hard accelerating
and braking) reduces it even more. Cold weather can reduce
MPG, since your engine doesn’t run efficiently until it is warmed
up, and driving with a heavy load or with the air conditioner
running can also reduce MPG.
Vehicle maintenance: A poorly tuned engine burns more fuel, so
fuel economy will suffer if your engine is not in tune. Keeping tires
at the correct pressure and changing the air filter on a regular
basis can improve fuel economy. Also, new energy-saving motor
oils can improve MPG.
Inherent variations in vehicles: Small variations in the way
vehicles are manufactured and assembled can cause MPG
variations among vehicles of the same make and model. Usually,
differences are small, but a few drivers may see a noticeable
deviation from the EPA estimates.
Refer to www.fueleconomy.gov for more detailed explanations and
fuel economy tips."
If it's a cold and arid day, I must first select 'Auto' and then unselect 'A/C.' I think this default setup is typical for many manufacturers, as A/C eliminates moisture & humidity from the cabin-- which can occur on rainy (and even cool) days.
Automatic climate control has no idea what the outside temperature is--and it doesn't care. It's only concern is the interior temperature the driver requests....
Colorado is 8th in size but only 22nd place in population so the only dangerous area is in metropolitan Denver and Colorado Springs.
Guess a person is lucky to live near the Colorado-Wyoming border.
Not the greatest numbers, but I also have 200,000 long miles on my van.
The only long distance trips we take normally involve I-95, I-10, I-75, I-24, and I-65 (sometimes I-75) from FL to Indianapolis, IN.
I seldom find traffic conditions that are light enough to allow me to use cruise control for very long; I normally use it for very brief periods just to allow me to move my right foot around and restore circulation. The rest of the time the traffic is either too heavy or - in the rolling country through northern GA, TN, KY and southern IN, I have found that the cruise controls on both my 92 Dodge GC (3.3L) and 99 T&C Ltd (3.8L) couldn't maintain the speed I liked (75 or so mph) without downshifting all the time. But in both cars, I could usually maintain speed without downshifting by careful manual control of the accelerator pedal.
My 92 always gave me around 21 mpg in 75% suburban - 25% highway driving and around 25-26 on the long trips. The 99 T&C gave around 18-19 in daily driving and a usual 23-24 on the highway with a one-time top of 26 with a tail wind. But for some reason, the best tank mileage always seemed to come on the middle tank, when I was driving in hilly terrain and usually had the a/c running in the heat of the late morning-afternoon. I often wonder if gasoline for FL is formulated in a manner that gives poorer economy.
I noticed little difference in performance between the two, due mostly to the added weight of the 99, even with the larger engine. I also found that downshifting with either car resulted in more noise than oomph; that's why I would prefer a 5-speed auto in my next car. I have test driven two 2005s with the 3.8 and, while the normal engine noise is less, hard acceleration and downshifting still means more sound than fury. I seems to me that moving the torque peak up the RPM scale has hurt low-RPM urge.
However, to put it all in perspective, consider that the 24 mpg (I'll be generous) that we might expect from an Odyssey or our Taurus would account for 104 gallons used for the 2500-mile round trip. Even at only 16 mpg, the YXL will use 156 gallons for the same trip (139 if my hope-against-hope of 18 mpg pans out!). Allowing $2.50 price per gallon average, the worse-case scenario would cost me a $130 difference. That is certainly well worth it to me to avoid the relative discomforts of the Taurus.
Since the YXL sits up nice and high (allowing all a commanding view of the passing scenery), has a tri-zone automatic climate control that regulates temperature in all seating positions better than any other vehicle I've ever ridden in (including excellent personal control of air flow and direction), stays much cooler in any case due to excellent window tinting, with auto-dimming mirrors, DRLs, automatic headlights, direct-to-the-glass-from-the-wiper-arm window washing front and back, incredibly comfortable seats, and all the other little niceties, I would even be so bold as to say (even right here in this very forum) that -- to me mind you -- that it is worth it for the additional comforts over any trim level Odyssey. YMMV
Yesterday I drove from Fontana, CA to Phoenix , AZ. It's about a 6hour drive, so I thought I'd give 30mpg another shot. I drove just as I described above. 1/2 hour into the trip the on board reading is 29mpg. It then kept going up. An hour into the trip 31 mpg! I kept it there for another hour, then I hit a STEEEP hill. I'm not sure how long incline was, 10 minutes or so. When I finally got to the top my mpg reading had dropped to 26.9.
The rest of the way was pretty flat and I drove like I did before, but could never get back. I got back up to 28mpg, but finished the trip at a not too shabby 26.6 mpg. I must say it isn't easy driving at 65 mph for 6 hours. There are far too many variables that go into mpg, so I'm not going to attempt to figure it out. One thing I did notice, because it was so extreme, was the temperature. The trip started out at 63 degrees. The 31mpg was achieved in the upper 60's to low 70's. Once I was past the steep incline, the temp was still in the 70's. I got back up to 28mpg, but then it started to drop as the temperature got hotter. In the 90's it seemed to level off to the mid 26 mpg.
It was fun while it lasted. My wife chuckles at me for keeping an eye on such things. What else is dad to do while every one else is watching DVD's and reading in the back. Happy Holiday to all.
We log all fuel usage for our 2005 Quest SL. It was 22.3 mpg, including break-in and extended snow driving. So, if you're going to bet the ranch.....
The best single tank wasn't the 26mpg of the EPA rating - it was 25.5 over 390 miles. I drove most of it and it included stints of 80mph, and all with the A/C running.
This thread is full of Sienna and Ody owners disappointed in their RW fuel economy. I think it's partly that some manufacturers are better at tuning their vehicles for the EPA cycle; and that many drivers don't drive in a way that maximizes fuel economy.
I watch the overhead computer when driving to see what it says, but I don't use it to tell me the average miles per gallon my van is giving me on a trip. That is where I get out the calculator, or do it by hand. I'm more interested what the average is instead of a short high or low.