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Comments

  • garandmangarandman Member Posts: 524
    I have heard they use the time elapsed between turnpike entry and exit to measure speed and cite if the speed estimated is excessive.

    Any state using the EZPass technology could do this. In fact, any toll highway could have done it for many years. They don't, for many reasons but the most practical consideration is that no one would use it. there would be endless challenges over the accuracy of the system and all kinds of other protest.

    Own a firearm in many Northeastern states and you'll see what it's like to be treated like a criminal even though you are not. Then you'll understand why it won't happen.
  • mtbiker1mtbiker1 Member Posts: 17
    Since you "improved" the site I can't go to the various topic boards. And, when I try to click on feedback to ask what's going on, I get an error message. This is like what my local newspaper does on Sunday, when the normal order of the various sections is totally scrambled. Why, you ask, is this post here? Simple, really: I can't readily figure out or get to anyplace where it makes sense!

    If this is your idea of "user friendly" I'm going somewhere else.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Hi mtbiker1. I'm so sorry you're having difficulties!

    You can drop by the Forums Software discussion and report your difficulties. Try to be a little more specific because it's not clear exactly what is happening to you. Explain what links or drop downs you are using that aren't taking you where you want and if you are getting errors, report them as exactly as possible.

    Hope you'll follow through with this suggestion - we'll get everything worked out for you!
  • oneconsumeroneconsumer Member Posts: 41
    It is now well-known that there is a major defect in the new 2005 Odyssey, especislly with automatic climate control. The heated engine air gets into the vent pipe or air intake, as a result one gets 110 degree hot air from the vent if he or she chooses not to use the air conditioning but only the fresh air from outside. This is more apparent when the vehicle is stopped or in slow speed. In order to combat with the hot air in the vent the AC has to work excessively at all time, resulting in a very poor fuel efficiency. That is why many new Odyssey drivers are complaining that theyt got much lower fuel efficiency than the manufacture claims. It is likely that people reporting good fuel efficiency were driving during the winter or cool spring months; this problem was not obvious to them. Once the hot season comes, it is expected that more complaints will surface. Honda should have a recall to fix this major defect.
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    Really?

    My wife and I have owned a new Odyssey EX-L since February and we frequently use the automatic climate control in a fully manual mode without the AC on. We've been enjoying some rather cool (for us) springtime weather here in central Texas and we have NOT noticed any excess heat coming from the vents in the fresh air mode. And I'm fairly cetain that if the air from the fresh air vents was at 110 degrees, my wife would notice.
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    Well I finally gor my 2005 DGC 3.8, out on the highway for a full tank of gas. Only about 25 miles of city driving and I got a little over 25mpg. I am sure I could have gotten 26mpg if I could have eliminated those 25 miles. Half of my trip, I used the a/c. This is the best I've got yet. :D
  • oneconsumeroneconsumer Member Posts: 41
    Try driving the car for 45 minutes without AC, and stop the car but leave the engine on. Turn the fan to high speed to see if you feel hot air from the vent.
  • oneconsumeroneconsumer Member Posts: 41
    The hot air problem becomes more apparent when the car has been driven for more than 30 minutes and when the car is stopped but engine leaved on. Turn the fan to high speed and see if you feel the hot air from the vent. The service advisor from my dealer admitted that the under hood insulation seal has gaps near the air intake areas on the bottom of the windshield. The hot air from engine may leak into vent duct through those gaps. But I think this is not the only place that hot air leaks into the vent duct. Honda needs to find out the causes of this hot air problem.
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    So, in other words, the problem only presents itself when the van is stopped? That explains why my wife hasn't noticed a problem; when she is in stop'n'go traffic (or in a drive-thru lane), she puts the system on recirc and AC to avoid traffic fumes. She only runs the system on fresh air/no AC when the car is moving.

    Just curious; how do you know this is endemic to all of the new Odyssey's rather than just your example?
  • oneconsumeroneconsumer Member Posts: 41
    The service advisor admitted the there are gaps in the insulation seal under hood near the air intake areas in the 2005 model. But this may not be the only place that engine's heated air gets into the vent duct. Since 2005 Odyssey is a redesigned model, it may takes some time for the manufacture to figure out the problem and its cause or causes. I encourage you to try what I suggested. If you have similar problem, contact your dealer. The dealer would not issue a recall, unless there are more complaints coming in.
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    This whole thread regarding the engine heat seeping into the fresh air vents may be a bit off topic but I'm going to suggest the following:

    If there are gaps in the insulation seal due to a manufacturering defect (ie. the seal is supposed to be air tight), then the issue should be resolved under warrantee. However, if the seal is not designed to be airtight but is designed to simply reduce the amount of heat entering the fresh air vents, then with all due respect I think you will get a lot further towards resolving your issue by taking measures yourself to seal up any gaps you may find. Otherwise, I think you will expend a lot of effort trying to drum up complaints for an issue you could solve in 15 minutes with some foam weatherstriping and sealant.

    If you find gaps in the insulation seal, fill them. Like I've stated previously, my wife runs the fresh air vents w/ no AC when she is DRIVING (as opposed to sitting in traffic) and has had absolutely no problem with excess heat coming from the vents. It is possible that when the van is idling in one place for an extended period of time, the engine heat will NATUALLY heat up the outside air before it gets to the fresh air vents. Taking a look at the underhood packaging on the Odyssey, I'm not surprised there is some seepage of heat into the fresh air ducts; IMO it would be difficult to avoid. Referring to this as a design 'defect' requiring a recall may be a bit of a stretch. Is it possible this same thing occurred on previous Odysseys?

    Now, as to whether this issue affects your gas mileage (on topic at last!); consider this: if the engine heat is affecting the fresh air temperature ONLY WHILE THE VEHICLE IS STOPPED, then I don't see how the AC system having to work 'extra hard' to cool the vehicle would affect your mileage. You are STOPPED. You gas mileage is 0.0 mpg. If the AC is already on, then you are not consuming ANY more gas to make the AC work 'harder'. The only way I can see this a being a problem would be if you habitually run fresh air and no AC in stop'n'go driving. Rather than inhaling all those fumes from the other traffic, my wife and I typically put the system on recirc and run the AC. Apparently, the problem doesn't occur when you are actually moving, therefore there is no actual drain on the AC system and mileage should be unaffected.
  • dilbertzzzdilbertzzz Member Posts: 190
    Respectfully, any time your air conditioner is running you are decreasing your gas mileage. And idling time reduces your gas mileage always, for the exact reason you stated: you are traveling zero miles for x gallons of fuel burned. Worse, with air conditioning on and the condenser running (which, it must do more if the ambient air is hotter), then your engine idle will increase (or else the engine will die, burning even more fuel for each restart). You can tell that it does so by listening to the engine noise or watching the tach as you turn on the air conditioning at idle.

    None of this is to be confused with idol, which, in the American TV version, is somehow managing a lot more mileage than it deserves (though I'll admit to watching it myself!). ;)
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    Agree with everything said. What I got from oneconsumer's original post was that due to a engine heat seepage issue, the AC system was having to work harder (longer) than it normally would, causing a decrease in economy. This would only be true if the AC system was set to the coldest setting since in this mode (theoretically), there is no mixing of the cold AC air with warm air from the heater to achieve the set temperature and the AC system was struggling (running more frequently/longer than usual) to achieve the set temperature.

    I think the issue that oneconsumer is having though is that he would PREFER to run the fresh air vents only (no AC if feasible, therefore maximizing his fuel economy) but is unable to do this (at least while the vehicle is stationary) due to the heat seepage issue. And even though fuel economy is typically measured as "mpg" (which would obviously stay at 0.0 if vehicle is stationary), economy can also be measured as gallons/hour (the way it is measured for airplanes), in which case the fuel economy is lowered if oneconsumer must run his AC while the vehicle is stationary.

    At this point though, I'm curious: how many vehicles really do that good of a job isolating the fresh air vents/ducts from engine heat seepage. :confuse:

    re: American Idol - I can proudly state that I've never seen an episode of American Idol. Ever. The only awareness I have of that show is from commercials. From the look of the commercials, I'd put American Idol right up there with Entertainment Tonight. And to that list also include Fear Factor, The Nanny, The Bachelor/Bachelorette, etc. etc. That stuff will turn your brain into green jello. Nooooooo thanks.....
  • oneconsumeroneconsumer Member Posts: 41
    In response to rorr's posting.

    The service advisor did indicate that the insulation gaps were not found in pre-2005 Odyssey. I do not recommend any body to seal the gaps themselves, for if the seal should have fallen out of place and got entangled with the belts, the warrantee may be forfeited. Besides, it's not our responsibility to fix the problem.
    Most importantly, I think the insulation gaps are not the only place that heated air leaks into the vent duct. If the heated air gets into the vent duct through other places, then the AC would have to work harder and consequently reduce the fuel efficiency, no matter the car is moving or stopped.
    My goal for this posting is to invide all new Odyssey owners to test drive their cars the way I suggested and find out if they have the hot air problem.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,441
    getting away from the hot air for a moment..

    We seem to have crept up to the low-17s for around town driving on the EX-L (now up to 4K on it). Still about 10% better than our '99 QUest, and about 100% more powerful and comfortable.

    We really haven't used the AC yet (no need), although my wife might turn it on occasionally. We usually either have the climate on manual (no AC), or just turned off and windows or roof open. I haven't noticed any hot air that I can recall. I also don't turn the fan on high becasue it bugs me to listen to it.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    Overall gas mileage was 30.4 mpg going and 26.2 mpg on return portion. Refueled 5 times....First tank was 31.7 mpg, 2nd was 30.2 mpg, 3rd was 27.2 mpg, 4th was 26.3 mpg, and last tank after unloading and then refueling was 25.5 mpg.
    Drove 25 miles around town before going and 39 miles around a town during the trip or overall gas mileage would have been better than the 27.8 MPG average for the round trip.
    My nephew tells me his 2005 Odyssey EX is getting about 23 MPG on trips.
  • masterpaul1masterpaul1 Member Posts: 421
    Man that good! How fast were you going and was this all interstate driving? :surprise:
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,244
    Hans, you weren't being towed by your nephews Odyssey to get 30.2mpg were you? What was your average hwy speed and terrain traveled? I'm guessing 55mph somewhere in the midwest plains....where it's flat as a pancake.
    As a scientific comparison, how about putting the pedal to the metal on your next trip? Drive like a mad man...Like a bat outta hell ! It may cost you a little more in gas money...but will give all of us some important information on the difference in mpg when driving to the extremes.
    2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere, 2007 Kia Optima
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    Mostly interstate driving on I-15 with cruise set at 65-66 MPH to southern California and back (one son lives in Provo, UT where the trip was started and a daughter lives in San Diego). Weather was quite calm and temperatures moderate so the A/C was not used much. Going Cedar City to St George the trip computer often read 99 MPG but on the return trip it often read 12 or 13 MPG from St George to Cedar City. Cannot drive less than 70 - 80 MPH in the Los Angeles basin on the freeways.
    An accurate mileage driving I-80 across Wyoming is not possible as the winds are usually horrific. 1980 Chevy van would get 16 MPG driving westbound on I-80 and 26 MPG eastbound.
  • donhagnerdonhagner Member Posts: 5
    Seeing so many complaints of low mpg on the new odysseys. I am wondering my observations below are true.

    1. Those that got low mpg (14-18) are models with automatic climate control. The "hot air" problem (see previous posts) would kick off the AC even in a cool day when outside temperature is below cabin's, because hot air leaked from the engine to the vent duct would require AC to work most of the time.

    2. Those reporting good mpg are Odyssey owner without automatic climate control and were driving and reporting during the winter months. Since the engine "hot air" leaked into the cabin was used to warm up the cabin when outside air is cold. Thus no AC and no extra gas is needed.

    3. The 19 mpg claims by Honda and government agency were probable based on road test that happened during the winter months and on vehicles without automatic climate control or with it turned off.

    However this is my guess. We need some testimonies to confirm the findings.
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,244
    donhagner....are you oneconsumer in disguise? If so, you don't give up easily do you??? I do admire your persistency. Good luck in your quest...but you may be barking up the wrong tree.
    2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere, 2007 Kia Optima
  • donhagnerdonhagner Member Posts: 5
    I am who I am.
    Focus on the topic of discussion, please.
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    Funny, the same thing that occurred to jipster occurred to me.

    The new Odysseys have been on sale for several months, there have been hundreds and hundreds of posts in the Odyssey problems and solutions thread and yet NOT A SINGLE ONE related to the "hot air" issue.....until oneconsumer started posting last week.

    Now Monday rolls around, oneconsumer is nowhere to be found.....yet now, on your first day in the Townhall, you are posting in multiple threads about the "hot air" issue as though it is gospel that it affects all Odyssey's with automatic climate control......just like oneconsumer (and only oneconsumer) was advocating.

    Two possiblities -

    a) you are oneconsumer under a different screen name. Against TH rules.
    b) your are not oneconsumer and you are a brand new TH participant. In which case I would like to point out that the "hot air" issue has been voice by a SINGLE poster who was trying like heck to advance the theory that this was a 'major design defect' and was attempting to start a grass roots surge to get Honda to issue a recall. Even though several Odyssey owners have tested their vans (and were unable to duplicate the problem), this individual was still convinced this was a widespread problem.

    Bottom line - this "hot air" issue does not appear to be a widespread problem. As far as mileage goes, now that our Odyssey EX-L is broken in (turned over 10k miles this weekend), the mileage has improved. My wife is generally averaging 19.5-20 in her usual mix of 75% city/25% hwy. We took a trip to Colorado in mid April; we had 4 consecutive tanks in excess of 24 mpg with a high of around 25.5 mpg. Not exactly stellar mileage but definitely getting better.
  • fsmmcsifsmmcsi Member Posts: 792
    Thus far (over 1,600 miles), our Sienna XLE Limited is only producing 19MPG. The 19 city and 26 highway rating is obviously nonsense. My old vehicle, an '02 Mountaineer V8, is rated 14 city and 19 highway, and produces 17MPG for me. I was expecting far better from the Sienna. I was using regular and am now using premium, but it does not appear to make a difference.
  • strstr Member Posts: 64
    Well, that's just fabulous. We are looking at the Sienna XLE and one of the most important things for us is good gas mileage. I commute 40 miles in total just to get to work and back and not to mention any other driving I do during the day. We are also looking at the Montana SV6 but I haven't talked to anyone that actually drives one yet but I am interested in finding out how they do on gas. I thought the Sienna was supposed to get really good gas mileage? My Envoy gets more or equal to 19 MPG and that is not good enough for us. We need a van because of all of the features for families (two young kids) and because they are supposed to be a lot better on gas than SUV's.
  • dsrtrat2dsrtrat2 Member Posts: 223
    My son's '04 XLE Limited gets around 19 MPG. Their 2000 Sienna got considerably better MPG. Needless to say they are not happy about it.
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    Hi tech isn't what it use to be.
  • dtownfbdtownfb Member Posts: 2,918
    1600 miles is still very early for an engine. Give it more time. Waht are your driving patterns like? Do you drive mostly city or highway? Stop n go or open highway? Lots of hills? It all makes a difference.
  • dilbertzzzdilbertzzz Member Posts: 190
    All those things make a difference unless you are talking to the same driver driving in the same terrain mix with the same habits as s/he had before on a different vehicle. And 1600 miles is plenty more than enough to break in a new engine these days.

    I think, mileage apologists (and optimists!) notwithstanding, all simply have to face the fact that you cannot keep the same exemplary mileage while heaping on the creature comforts and features we all demand. It was true in the 1960's as the originally stripped-down "muscle cars" became bloated, middle-aged semi-sporty cars to appeal to a more spoiled audience. It is true now with the newer, more-refined, more luxurious, quieter, safer, and thus, heavier not-so-mini-vans out on the real roads.

    As comedian Steven Wright once so eloquently observed, "You can't have it all (long, seemingly spaced-out, pregnant pause). Where would you keep it?" ;)
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    Any new minivan will get remarkable gas mileage if driven within the posted speed limits on the open highway. :blush:
    My 2002 Chrysler T&C LX that has a legitimate heater and front and rear airconditioning gets much better gas mileage on the road than my 1976 VW Bus did with the anemic, lethargic 4 cyl engine. However, in town the mileage is about the same.
  • lumbarlumbar Member Posts: 421
    Ok, here's the final word on Sienna gas mileage from someone who has read 1,967 posts about it both here and on other forums. Well, not really. It's just my opinion, but I really have read 1,967 posts about the mileage because we're considering one and spouse has said she will cut off my... allowance if it doesn't average 20-21+ mpg.

    As you pointed out, EPA estimates are pretty much nonsense for all but the most careful driver under ideal conditions. But that is true for virtually every vehicle, and the high weight of minivans makes it particularly true for them. IMO a subtraction of 10-15% is the place to start for an accurate estimate with Sienna, before considering your "typical" drive---a lot of stop and go will kill your mileage in a van.

    My sense anecdotally is that 17-18 city and 23-24 (maybe a bit more) is reasonably achievable for your average driver in your average Sienna on average roads. The AWD version will probably not get that on city roads, and some people have reported genuinely poor (13-14) mileage in an AWD around town. Although this might be a bit of a crackpot theory, I also think that LEs, on average, get slightly better mileage than XLEs and Limiteds, and there are actually a couple of reasons why this might even be true. I do know that most of the "wow, that's good mileage" Sienna's I've read about have been LEs.

    But, above all, take this FWIW.
  • oneconsumeroneconsumer Member Posts: 41
    rorr: "We took a trip to Colorado in mid April; we had 4 consecutive tanks in excess of 24 mpg with a high of around 25.5 mpg. Not exactly stellar mileage but definitely getting better."

    Aren't you supposing to get 28 mpg (as Honda claims), given the fact that your trip was basically in highway and in a cold month (mid April) when AC was not supposed to be on? I think donhagner's theory may explain why you did not get 28 mpg, that is, your AC was forced to turn on to combat the hot air.
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    Amazing.

    Now you can apparently analyze someone else's mileage, from thousands of miles away, and determine that DESPITE THE FACT I HAVE CHECKED MY HVAC SYSTEM AND FOUND NO EXCESS HEAT PROBLEM, you are convinced that my mileage is subpar due to hot air?

    Has it occured to you that maybe we weren't driving at an economy stretching 48 mph? Maybe the we had the cruise control set at 75 mph? Maybe it was the load of passengers plus all the luggage for 4 people for two weeks? Maybe it was, hmmmm, the MOUNTAINS?

    And besides which, if it was COLD OUTSIDE, then why would the AC be running to combat the hot air? Wouldn't we have been running the heater ANYWAY? And FYI, mileage typically goes DOWN in the colder months, not UP.
  • dilbertzzzdilbertzzz Member Posts: 190
    AC also runs to help defog windows, I believe.

    And I'm right there with you hansienna. I agree that the increased mass of minivans (both over other, smaller vehicles and over the older minivan models) means greater inertia to overcome on each and every acceleration. IOW more gallons burned in real world driving.

    Of course, in Texas, driving "within the posted speed limits" even out "on the open highway" may well result in serious damage to your vehicle :sick: (bullet holes, run-off-the-road damage, but certainly many frowns :mad: , visibly-ranting drivers, and gesticulations unsuitable for a family venue :surprise: ). We don't seem to extend too much hospitality to our highways and byways down this-away.... ;)

    lumbar (how's your back?): that was a very helpful and reasonable assessment of expectations, IMHO. Thanks.
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,244
    Triple A lobbying(?) EPA to produce mpg figures that are closer to real life driving situations/factors. What's the latest?
    2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere, 2007 Kia Optima
  • ntbillntbill Member Posts: 20
    That's a fact, EPA rating are higher than what we can get. But those of you who are comparing rating for different brands can still use EPA numbers. What I mean is, if you want to find the van with higher mpg, you can look at the van with higher EPA mpg. You probably won't get those EPA numbers, but you will still get higher mpg compared to other brands.

    Example: Van A (22 mpg) has 10% higher EPA mpg than van B (20 mpg). Then, on the road, van A (20 mpg) will still get 10% higher mpg than van B (18 mpg).

    Of course it's interesting to know real world MPG, but if you are going to buy a van, you can look at EPA numbers for help in your decision.

    In the case of Dodge Caravan SE 3.3L, Toyota Sienna LE and Honda Odyssey EX, EPA numbers are almost the same, so on the road you should have almost the same real world mpg for those 3 brands.

    EPA equivalent numbers in Canada (UK gallons):
    Dodge Caravan SE 3.3L = 23 City - 34 Highway
    Toyota Sienna LE = 23 City - 34 Highway
    Honda Odyssey EX = 23 City - 33 Highway

    EPA equivalent numbers in Canada (US gallons):
    Dodge Caravan SE 3.3L = 19 City - 29 Highway
    Toyota Sienna LE = 19 City - 29 Highway
    Honda Odyssey EX = 19 City - 28 Highway
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    EPA highway numbers should be easy to match or beat.

    Consumer Reports does it all the time in their real world tests. They got the Odyssey at 28 and the Sienna at 27 mpg.

    City numbers can't really be compared because everybody has a different defination of city.
  • oneconsumeroneconsumer Member Posts: 41
    I would like to know whether or not AC turns on itself in the 2005 Odysseys equipped with automatic climate control while driving in the COLD outside temperate (65 degree and below) and no other function is selected that might trigger AC on, such as defrosting. If the AC turns on often, that might be an indication that "hot air" problem is there. This then affects mpg.
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    "A vehicle’s fuel economy is not a constant or fixed number; it
    varies among vehicles of the same make and model, and it will
    vary over time for an individual vehicle. Many factors affect a
    vehicle’s fuel economy:
    When, where, and how the vehicle is driven: Frequent acceleration
    and braking necessary in stop-and-go traffic and on hilly
    terrain hurt fuel economy, and aggressive driving (hard accelerating
    and braking) reduces it even more. Cold weather can reduce
    MPG, since your engine doesn’t run efficiently until it is warmed
    up, and driving with a heavy load or with the air conditioner
    running can also reduce MPG.
    Vehicle maintenance: A poorly tuned engine burns more fuel, so
    fuel economy will suffer if your engine is not in tune. Keeping tires
    at the correct pressure and changing the air filter on a regular
    basis can improve fuel economy. Also, new energy-saving motor
    oils can improve MPG.
    Inherent variations in vehicles: Small variations in the way
    vehicles are manufactured and assembled can cause MPG
    variations among vehicles of the same make and model. Usually,
    differences are small, but a few drivers may see a noticeable
    deviation from the EPA estimates.
    Refer to www.fueleconomy.gov for more detailed explanations and
    fuel economy tips."
  • heywood1heywood1 Member Posts: 851
    I live in PA, and own three vehicles with automatic climate control (Volvo, Toyota Sienna, and a Deville). In all three, the default A/C setting is 'On' whenever the system is set in the 'Auto' position.

    If it's a cold and arid day, I must first select 'Auto' and then unselect 'A/C.' I think this default setup is typical for many manufacturers, as A/C eliminates moisture & humidity from the cabin-- which can occur on rainy (and even cool) days.

    Automatic climate control has no idea what the outside temperature is--and it doesn't care. It's only concern is the interior temperature the driver requests....
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    Same in most areas with large metropolitan populations. Since Wyoming is 9th in size and 50th place in population, there are not many dangers on the roads. The biggest danger is the fright one encounters if one sees another driver within the next 50 miles. :blush:
    Colorado is 8th in size but only 22nd place in population so the only dangerous area is in metropolitan Denver and Colorado Springs.
    Guess a person is lucky to live near the Colorado-Wyoming border. ;)
  • ts60423ts60423 Member Posts: 52
    I get a nice 24-27 mpg at 75 mph on level open highway, and I also notice that I get better milage on a low tank of fuel - 26 gallons weighs a lot! I also took out my back row of seats - they are very heavy. I normally get 22-23 around town. I drive hard and fast, but I keep it clean and keep up on my maintenance.

    Not the greatest numbers, but I also have 200,000 long miles on my van.
  • ts60423ts60423 Member Posts: 52
    About the whole MPG arguement - when you think highway, think cruise control - and it is possible to duplicate driving conditions with cruise control. The more you use it, the more you save - the manufacturer uses this feature to calculate highway mileage and also to push those numbers up higher. City is stop and go, almost non-stop acceleration and deceleration, so is is more of an average..
  • veritasusaveritasusa Member Posts: 72
    If you think cruise control on the highway, your highways must be a LOT more uncrowded than the ones I usually drive. I live on the east-central coast of FL below Daytona Beach and use I-95 quite a bit (I try to avoid I-4 when at all possible).

    The only long distance trips we take normally involve I-95, I-10, I-75, I-24, and I-65 (sometimes I-75) from FL to Indianapolis, IN.

    I seldom find traffic conditions that are light enough to allow me to use cruise control for very long; I normally use it for very brief periods just to allow me to move my right foot around and restore circulation. The rest of the time the traffic is either too heavy or - in the rolling country through northern GA, TN, KY and southern IN, I have found that the cruise controls on both my 92 Dodge GC (3.3L) and 99 T&C Ltd (3.8L) couldn't maintain the speed I liked (75 or so mph) without downshifting all the time. But in both cars, I could usually maintain speed without downshifting by careful manual control of the accelerator pedal.

    My 92 always gave me around 21 mpg in 75% suburban - 25% highway driving and around 25-26 on the long trips. The 99 T&C gave around 18-19 in daily driving and a usual 23-24 on the highway with a one-time top of 26 with a tail wind. But for some reason, the best tank mileage always seemed to come on the middle tank, when I was driving in hilly terrain and usually had the a/c running in the heat of the late morning-afternoon. I often wonder if gasoline for FL is formulated in a manner that gives poorer economy.

    I noticed little difference in performance between the two, due mostly to the added weight of the 99, even with the larger engine. I also found that downshifting with either car resulted in more noise than oomph; that's why I would prefer a 5-speed auto in my next car. I have test driven two 2005s with the 3.8 and, while the normal engine noise is less, hard acceleration and downshifting still means more sound than fury. I seems to me that moving the torque peak up the RPM scale has hurt low-RPM urge.
  • ts60423ts60423 Member Posts: 52
    Yes, I regularly drive up and down the State of Illinois on I-57 - traffic only builds when kids are travelling home from college, but they go FAST. Up around Chicago, the cruise is a joke, and stop and go is the norm - that would definately qualify as city driving. Even if you are stuck behind a slow poke, use the cruise and match or fall behind a mph or two. The computer is much better at maintaining efficiency than we are. I use it for any highway that runs for more than a couple miles. My highs are well over 30 mpg, and then there was a time I drafted off a semi (with his permission) and got nearly 60 mpg (for a 340 mile trip). I also use 10% ethonol fuel to cut costs, but also hurts gas mileage a bit. If you run pure fuel in your car, it can make a big improvement, depending on the manufacturer - in my Chevy Venture ethonol makes minimal difference. A big impact on mileage on the highway is maintenance, and the number of stops you make along the way.
  • dilbertzzzdilbertzzz Member Posts: 190
    We'll be up nearby in the Black Hills the end of June. I hope to swing through at least parts of your beautiful, wide-open Wyoming for my wife to see it. And (to be at least partially on topic) I will be carefully watching the gas mileage on my fuel-hungry Yukon XL to see if having 4 fewer people and thus less luggage (than last-year's two family joint vacation marathon from Dallas to Disneyland and back by way of Rocky Mountain National Park) will allow it to stretch toward the 18 mpg highway that I have so far had only (unsuccessfully) hoped for once or twice in the last 18 months.

    However, to put it all in perspective, consider that the 24 mpg (I'll be generous) that we might expect from an Odyssey or our Taurus would account for 104 gallons used for the 2500-mile round trip. Even at only 16 mpg, the YXL will use 156 gallons for the same trip (139 if my hope-against-hope of 18 mpg pans out!). Allowing $2.50 price per gallon average, the worse-case scenario would cost me a $130 difference. That is certainly well worth it to me to avoid the relative discomforts of the Taurus.

    Since the YXL sits up nice and high (allowing all a commanding view of the passing scenery), has a tri-zone automatic climate control that regulates temperature in all seating positions better than any other vehicle I've ever ridden in (including excellent personal control of air flow and direction), stays much cooler in any case due to excellent window tinting, with auto-dimming mirrors, DRLs, automatic headlights, direct-to-the-glass-from-the-wiper-arm window washing front and back, incredibly comfortable seats, and all the other little niceties, I would even be so bold as to say (even right here in this very forum) that -- to me mind you -- that it is worth it for the additional comforts over any trim level Odyssey. YMMV :)
  • theqtheq Member Posts: 6
    LX 1,200 miles. Recently Round trip of 280 miles about 90% highway, 25 MPG!
  • eyeblindeyeblind Member Posts: 156
    I've had a couple of short trips (an hour to hour and 1/2) where I achieved 30mpg. Both times I was driving at about 65 mph on a flat, straight highway. Both times my driving was very steady and consistent, no hard acceleration. I thought that was pretty cool, but wondered if I could achieve the 30mpg for more than an hour and 1/2.

    Yesterday I drove from Fontana, CA to Phoenix , AZ. It's about a 6hour drive, so I thought I'd give 30mpg another shot. I drove just as I described above. 1/2 hour into the trip the on board reading is 29mpg. It then kept going up. An hour into the trip 31 mpg! :) I kept it there for another hour, then I hit a STEEEP hill. I'm not sure how long incline was, 10 minutes or so. When I finally got to the top my mpg reading had dropped to 26.9. :(

    The rest of the way was pretty flat and I drove like I did before, but could never get back. I got back up to 28mpg, but finished the trip at a not too shabby 26.6 mpg. I must say it isn't easy driving at 65 mph for 6 hours. There are far too many variables that go into mpg, so I'm not going to attempt to figure it out. One thing I did notice, because it was so extreme, was the temperature. The trip started out at 63 degrees. The 31mpg was achieved in the upper 60's to low 70's. Once I was past the steep incline, the temp was still in the 70's. I got back up to 28mpg, but then it started to drop as the temperature got hotter. In the 90's it seemed to level off to the mid 26 mpg.

    It was fun while it lasted. My wife chuckles at me for keeping an eye on such things. What else is dad to do while every one else is watching DVD's and reading in the back. Happy Holiday to all.
  • garandmangarandman Member Posts: 524
    Ok, here's the final word on Sienna gas mileage from someone who has read 1,967 posts about it both here and on other forums. Well, not really. It's just my opinion, but I really have read 1,967 posts about the mileage because we're considering one and spouse has said she will cut off my... allowance if it doesn't average 20-21+ mpg.

    We log all fuel usage for our 2005 Quest SL. It was 22.3 mpg, including break-in and extended snow driving. So, if you're going to bet the ranch.....

    The best single tank wasn't the 26mpg of the EPA rating - it was 25.5 over 390 miles. I drove most of it and it included stints of 80mph, and all with the A/C running.

    This thread is full of Sienna and Ody owners disappointed in their RW fuel economy. I think it's partly that some manufacturers are better at tuning their vehicles for the EPA cycle; and that many drivers don't drive in a way that maximizes fuel economy.
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    I find the best way to see what kind of mileage your van really gets is to set your tripometer to zero when filling up. Then when you have to fill again, divide the gallons of gas put in your van against the miles driven. That will give you the best idea of how good your van is doing through the whole trip or tank of gas.

    I watch the overhead computer when driving to see what it says, but I don't use it to tell me the average miles per gallon my van is giving me on a trip. That is where I get out the calculator, or do it by hand. I'm more interested what the average is instead of a short high or low.
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