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High End Luxury Cars

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Comments

  • dhamiltondhamilton Member Posts: 878
    did you already "do" the taste and i missed your review?
  • 2001gs4302001gs430 Member Posts: 767
    This article about Diesel exhaust left me worried...

    link title

    Diesel hybrid technology is being used in buses, so this would trickle into cars soon...
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Not yet. Thanks for asking. A few more weeks to go.

    After sitting in the GS and LS at the auto show, I am not very encouraged.

    I found the LS driver's seat too soft with minimal lumbar support and a too narrow foot well.

    As for the GS, my right knee and leg kept hitting the console despite multiple efforts at adjusting the seat.

    It seems like Lexus uses a 5'10" person with narrow feet as their driver's model. It's about time they move it to someone around 6' tall with average to wide feet for their USA-destined vehicles, so at least someone like me has a fighting chance. (I am 6'2", 200 lbs).

    Except for wanting 2"-3" more legroom, I never have had trouble getting comfortable in any BMW vehicle. No console or foot well problems.

    I have to say though that the wood in the LS vehicle was first rate. Very expensive looking.
  • sysweisyswei Member Posts: 1,804
    I found the LS driver's seat too soft with minimal lumbar support and a too narrow foot well.

    I believe there is a power lumbar adjustment. But too bad on the other issues.
  • dhamiltondhamilton Member Posts: 878
    Please do me the honor of driving [thrashing] an IS350 and let me know your thoughts.
    I'm 5'10" 220 lbs and I thought that the GS's inside room didn't reflect the cars outward "looking" size. In other words, it looks like a bigger car than it really is. Rather cramped, but the funnest car to drive there with the exception of the S class.
  • sysweisyswei Member Posts: 1,804
    TOL...In the past I suggested driving the LS in "sport" mode. I should add that I think there is a separate switch that you can put in "power" mode. The former is for the suspension and the latter the transmission. Anyway, looking forward to hearing your thoughts.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Yes. The GS is no bigger than a 3 Series inside, perhaps even a bit smaller. A friend took me for dinner last week in his 2005 GS and I had to adjust the passenger seat to its lowest setting because my head was grazing the sunroof. But the GS350 should have good pickup.

    I wasn't planning on driving an IS because I know it will be too cramped for me, but I might as well as long as I'm there. It is a good looking vehicle.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    How long does it take for the new diesel to warm up? i.e. stop clattering? IIRC, one of the characteristics of diesel is taking forever to warm up. The 300TD I had many years ago literally could idle for hours without melting the snow on the hood.

    Your good questions indicate that you most likely haven't had the opportunity to test drive even the recent Mercedes (prior to BlueTec) diesel. Modern diesels are far ahead of the 300TD that you were last familiar with.

    It is not unfair to compare the diesel with the V8, due to the near neck-snapping torque. It is just amazing. Even with the very last diesel there was just a little exterior chatter at idle, otherwise very quiet and smooth, and from the interior it was barely perceptible.

    What state do you reside in? If the BlueTec is available in your state, I suggest that you check it out. You can get all your questions answered, and then let us all know what your impressions are.

    TagMan
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    I somehow was under the impression that you didn't care all that much for Bentley. I remember posting some compliments on Bentley at one time, and I thought your reaction was lukewarm. Did I misunderstand?

    TagMan
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    I haven't driven the LS yet, only sat in one. I will mention I want the "sport" and "power" modes turned on to the person in charge. Hopefully he/she will not be from the auto show and will have some idea of what I am talking about.
    The "power" mode switch is a carry-over from the out-going LS, if I remember my test drive correctly, and results in more pick-up, but a little more fuel consumption than the "economy" mode. Imagine spending $60k and up and worrying about an "economy" mode. LOL!
  • sysweisyswei Member Posts: 1,804
    I will mention I want the "sport" and "power" modes turned on to the person in charge.

    The best thing might be to just remember to set them yourself when you get into the car. The sport/normal/comfort switch is on the console near the shifter. I forgot the power/normal/snow switch when I got into the LS myself, but I think that is near the other switch; I think what it does is, if set to power, keeps the car in a lower gear longer than it would in "normal" mode.

    However, not all cars have the variable suspension setup that lets you switch to sport. I believe when I went to TOL, 3 out of 4 models did....that's something you can ask the coordinator.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Okay. Thanks. I will mention that I want an LS with variable suspension. The LS that I sat in at the auto show didn't have this option. I remembered what you previously posted about it, but did not see it on the console.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    The SL is shall we say a familiar sight on the road today. Now comparing the SL550 to the top XKR is only somewhat correct, you and I both know the SL55 is the car to pit against the XKR. Of course on price Jaguar almost always manages to look better and duck the real competition. I wouldn't get to caught up on what front end has been seen on what car before with the XK's snout being in place on cars other than Jaguars.

    The XKR is somewhat inbetween the SL550 and 55 AMG, just like the S-type R. The fact that it costs less than the standard V8 though does make the 55 AMG look a bit overpriced.

    In defence of the Jag's snout, Jag sports cars have had that look since the D-type racer of the late '50s, long before the Taurus even existed.

    image
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    The "power" mode switch is a carry-over from the out-going LS, if I remember my test drive correctly, and results in more pick-up, but a little more fuel consumption than the "economy" mode. Imagine spending $60k and up and worrying about an "economy" mode. LOL!

    Lexus vehicles have always had a "Norm\Power" switch. The "snow" mode is a fairly new addition that I believe showed up when VSC replaced the Trac mode. In "normal" mode, the electronics cut a bit of torque in first gear to reduce wheelspin, the transmission upshifts early, and is more reluctant to downshift unless you really nail the throttle to the floor.

    In "Power" mode (and with VSC or VDIM turned off) no torque is cut, and the transmission shifts at redline and will downshift more readily.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    When I drive the LS in Miami in a couple of weeks, I will be keeping the "snow" mode off. Sounds like the "power" mode is for me.
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,327
    Hey, what are you selling. This article is almost 4 years old and concerns transit busses in...Canada.

    We are talking about state of the art, ultra clean, personal vehicles in the good ol' U.S.A.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • aggie76aggie76 Member Posts: 266
    My 2 cents. I took a good look at an IS recently and found it troubling to get in and out of the seat due to the B pillar intruding on the door opening. I'm 6-2" with a long inseam. With the seat back for my legs, I seemed to hit the door jam getting out everytime on the showroom floor while my LS was in for service. Was looking at it as a potential long term upgrade for my son in a year or two from his Civic getting him a used one at that time. He'll have the same issue as I did so I don't think we'll consider the IS as a candidate.
  • blkhemiblkhemi Member Posts: 1,717
    "Does this mean there are dozens of others sitting in the ho-hum part of your collection?"

    Not dozens D-Man, but I do have a few more interesting rides like the '48 Packard similar to the one that was featured in Driving Miss Daisy.

    Also have a '70 Chevelle SS 454 and a '71 Pontiac Trans Am Judge IV Ram Air.

    And then more modern cars like a '87 Buick Grand National and '92 Corvette ZR1(I have all 6 Corvette models C1-C6).

    So not ho-hum, but not quite as interesting than the cars I first named. And I'm still on the prowl for more. It's a "small" habit.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    I am the same size as you and I am not looking forward to the IS at the TOL. However someone here requested my impressions, so I will attempt it.
    Hope they have a big can opener.
  • sysweisyswei Member Posts: 1,804
  • dhamiltondhamilton Member Posts: 878
    My wife is an anesthesiologist, so if you need vicodin after egressing from the IS, I got your back like a Cadillac errrr......BMW!!!!!
    Seriously, no pressure, I just want to see if i'm crazy or if the car is really as bad as I thought.
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    Very interesting and impressive. Do you have any forecast for current collectibles? One that comes to mind is Veyron.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    My wife is an anesthesiologist, so if you need vicodin...

    Wow . . . a life without any pain . . . now I could go for that!

    Now, being married to an anesthesiologist . . . have you ever awakened without being able to remember a darned thing that happened recently? ;)

    TagMan
  • sysweisyswei Member Posts: 1,804
    Toward the bottom of this article.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Priceless! ;)

    You absolutely MUST post this on the LS board (if you can find the right one, nowadays!)

    TagMan
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Well, if I found the GS confining, which is Lexus' idea of a mid-sized vehicle, what do you think I will have to say about the quarters of the compact IS?

    For the love of humanity, I would think that a vicodin tray would be a necessary part of the buffet table, hopefully, far, far away fom the Cherry Heering.
  • guestguest Member Posts: 770
    I am the same size as you and I am not looking forward to the IS at the TOL. However someone here requested my impressions, so I will attempt it. Hope they have a big can opener.

    Happy to report that at 6'4", over 230 lbs., had no problems with ingress/egress for the Lexus IS350. Wouldn't recommend it as a car to move 4 people in consistently, doh. :(

    More of a 2+2. Fastest ride in the park. Needs a stick for a return engagement. :(

    DrFill
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    I am the same size as you and I am not looking forward to the IS at the TOL. However someone here requested my impressions, so I will attempt it. Hope they have a big can opener.

    Happy to report that at 6'4", over 230 lbs., had no problems with ingress/egress for the Lexus IS350. Wouldn't recommend it as a car to move 4 people in consistently, doh. :(

    More of a 2+2. Fastest ride in the park. Needs a stick for a return engagement. :(

    DrFill
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    You mean "truthful" video.
    Lexus has issued a statement washing their hands of any potential legalities for damages that may result from using the self-parking feature.
    It goes to show; BMW does not have a monopoly on technological stupidity.
    Lexus wants to compete with BMW. On this level, they may even be "better." :lemon:

    PS: If you do post that video "elsewhere", not to worry. I'm sure it was only a pre-production model tested, the moon was not in the seventh house and there was a vicious cross-breeze at the time which the reviewers conspired to leave out.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Have you sat in the GS driver's seat? I couldn't adjust the seat so my right knee and leg weren't brushing against the console.
  • brightness04brightness04 Member Posts: 3,148
    While the ancient 300TD was what I had, I did consider and test a much more recent MB diesel . . . a product that was suppposed to have improved so much . . . but the clatter in cold start was definitely still there. What's that expression? Fool me once . . . ;-)

    Diesels do not deliver the power of a V8, so the much more appropriate comparison would be to V6 gasser, until there is such a thing as a V8 diesel offered in the same line.

    I happen to live in one of the states that account for the overwhelming majority of MB and BMW sales, yet having regulators that follow CARB like shadow (LOL). I'm not against diesel at all for my own vehicle purchase when I want a car that delivers decent performance and economy . . . however, I'm quite skeptical diesel's potential in HELM. It's like, the RL, good performance, good economy, but a non-starter for HELM with a V6, even if it's a 300hp V6. In terms of smoothness, which is so quintessential to HELM since the days of Rolls-Royce, no modern diesel can come even close to the Acura 3.5 V6, which as we know still does not cut it.
  • brightness04brightness04 Member Posts: 3,148
    Definately make sure you are in the power mode. The default mode on those cars often start in 2nd or 3rd gear, which is gawd awful if you are into neck snapping :-)
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Diesels do not deliver the power of a V8

    I respect your opinion, but I completely disagree with you.

    And this is why . . . Take a closer look at the torque levels provided by diesels, and the amazingly low RPMs that can provide 100% of the engine's torque . . . which is what provides the surge out of the gate, and the lower rpm power which is ideal for quick bursts, and perfect for passing.

    Depending upon the engines, a V6 diesel can easily compare to a V8 gas ICE. Interestingly, the hybrids with their small gas ICEs mated to those electric motors end up comparing to much larger engines, don't they?

    I'm quite skeptical diesel's potential in HELM.

    I do not share your skepticism. The global picture already does not share your skepticism. In addition, I've seen enough posts on this forum, which of course is the HELM forum, and the concensus has been an overwhelming acceptance of the notion of a diesel-powered HELM.

    TagMan
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Well it the VW-based Bentleys I can't stand. I love the Arnage and its upcoming variants. The VW based Flying Brick (as I like to call it) and the Continental GT look like giant VWs and they're mighty ugly to me. The Arnage on the other had is traditional Bentley, old world, the aristocrat. There is also a Coupe version of the Arnage/Azure platform coming, the Havana:

    image

    There was no way Bentley was going to allow Rolls to produce the 100 and 101 EX models Coupe and Convertibles without any competition from Bentley.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    The fact that it costs less than the standard V8 though does make the 55 AMG look a bit overpriced.

    Well you know I'd disagree with that because to me if the Jaguar can't match the peformance of a SL55 or M6 then their prices are justified. You pay for what you get, the SL is imo just a whole lot more car.

    I realize the Ford stole the look, but still it is there so I don't see a problem with all one brand (the Benzes) sharing a look if Jaguar/Ford can share one though not on purpose. The Benzes are supposed to look somewhat alike, but a Ford and Jaguar aren't. I seem to remember reading where the brother of Jaguar's stylist did the Taurus so that is where he got the idea from.

    M
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Guys, we've only got one or two posters who are staying on topic here. It is also way too large. Most of you know we're trying to move toward smaller, more stream-lined subjects and discussions, and because of that, it's time to shut this one down.

    If anyone wants to continue a discussion about high end vehicles, please feel free to create a new discussion to do so. Personally, I'd like to see that, but I'd really like to see it stay on topic. I very much miss the days when the high end vehicles were what we discussed.

    I'd like to hear from more of you in What makes a vehicle truly high end?. Some of you may want to check out Is This the "Day of the Diesel?". All of you are invited to create new subjects of interest and if you need help or have questions, please feel free to email me.

    Thanks everyone.

    Sedans Board - the Add a Discussion link is on the right over the list of discussions (under the list of groups). Create what you want - we'll move it to the right place if need be.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    discussion that may interest you: "Taste of Lexus".
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    syswei has created this: High End Luxury Vehicles. So have at it!! ;)
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    If you didn't read my post in the short-lived other discussion, please do so: pat, "High End Luxury Cars" #101, 13 Nov 2006 6:38 am. There are a couple of conditions to this reopening that you need to know.

    Okay, have at it!! :P
  • sysweisyswei Member Posts: 1,804
    BTW Pat, my tracked forums now shows "High End Luxury Cars" twice, one of them being "read only". Should the title of the old (short-lived) forum be changed to avoid confusion?
  • guestguest Member Posts: 770
    I don't care what Tag says about you, I think you're doin' a hell of a job! You can take a hint with the best of 'em. ;)

    Now that the wake is over, and Dewey is back into the fold, let's talk about the High-End again!

    I just noticed that the Merc GL in the commercial doesn't have power lumbar? What's up with that? :confuse:

    DrFill
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    Tagman, this is in response to your post #74 in the thread that just got shut down.

    Even though my original '97 Boxster was underpowered, I regret that I sold it. Since yours is an S, what other Porsche would you really consider, unless you need the power of the turbo?

    I’m considering all Porsches from 1988 up to the 997 Carrera S. The exceptions are the 944s and 928s. That’s a lot of cars.

    In addtion, you've already got the cabriolet, and the mid-engine. The Cayman, while better, wouldn't be enough of an improvement, IMO, to lose the drop top. Cayman doesn't even have a sunroof. Already owning the Boxster S, there's little reason for a Cayman here, IMO.

    Cayman is a longshot for me even though it a fantastic car. If I go coupe I think the Croc has to wait in line behind a lot of 911s. The drop top was very important with my purchase of the Boxster and it cost a lot less than a 911 cab. As it turns out, if I had bought a 993 cab as I had originally planned, it would have cost considerably less in resale, but with the Boxster I got an impeccable driving car with the 4-year warranty, in addtion to the mid-engine experience which is necessary for anyone who considers themself a well-round Porsche aficionado.

    Is your Boxster S in good condition? Why sell it?

    It’s in great condition. Why sell it? Remember the movie Close Encounters where there was the craving to get to the encounter? I’ve had this craving for 911s for over 30 years. I’ve driven many of them through the years but never owned one. It’s manifest destiny.

    Could you consider waiting two+ years for the all new 911? Now THAT could be a real reason to make a change.

    Two years is a long time. I could get a lot accomplished with the quest by that time and it may be more desirable to start in the past and work forward. Not sure. Too bad buying and selling cars is a bigger hassle than doing so with stocks as Blkhemi alluded to, although the way some people go through cars you would never know there is any problem. Lastly, Porsches have changed so much through the years in terms of mechanics and driving dynamics. All true Porsche fans want that experience and knowledge of the marque—the historical perspective and understanding of its great sport engineering. Close Encounters, Tag. I guess I’m building the butte with topsoil in my backyard.

    ;-)
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,327
    The above quote is from Merc back on Nov. 27, 1999! The 3rd post of 20,928! Looks like you were wrong on that one Merc!!
    Thanks Pat.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    I'll probably just delete it shortly - there certainly isn't much in there about cars!! ;)

    You can untrack it to get it off your list. I promise nothing new is going to be posted in it. Ever!! :shades:
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    To answer something you posted in that other place, hosts' profiles contain their email addresses and their profiles are always linked at the top of the boards/discussions they host - so they are always available.

    And you're welcome. :)
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Thanks. I will use the power mode when I drive the LS460.

    Hope this thread doesn't metamorphosize into something "new and improved" before I get back! :surprise: :P
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Based on the following quote it seems MB is taking reliability a bit more seriously than before expecially in the case of their new S Class :

    Lab workers put each new model's electronics system through a battery of 10,000 tests that run 24 hours a day and take three weeks to complete. One favorite tactic: Simulate what happens when a driver hits buttons all over the dashboard willy-nilly at the same time. "We try to come up with every strange situation possible," says Dieter Serries, Mercedes' head of development testing. Mercedes used the technique to ferret out more than 1,000 errors in the new S-Class, including one where the blinkers didn't function when there was no air conditioning system in the car. Says Zetsche: "You can find 99% of the glitches before a car ever hits the road."

    Unfortunately MB has a great cost disadvantage when compared to BMW and Lexus:

    But Mercedes still has a long way to go. Its costs per vehicle are as much as $3,800 higher than for comparable BMWs, says Ferdinand Dudenhöffer, director of the German Center for Automotive Research at the University of Gelsenkirchen. Much of that difference could be made up by standardizing design and manufacturing and sharing more parts, but Mercedes is a good five years behind the likes of BMW and Toyota Motor Corp. (TM ) in this arena.

    SOURCE:Businessweek
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    I don't care what Tag says about you

    Doc,

    What's this? You've GOT to be kidding.

    TagMan
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Remember the movie Close Encounters where there was the craving to get to the encounter? I’ve had this craving for 911s for over 30 years. I’ve driven many of them through the years but never owned one. It’s manifest destiny.

    I completely understand. I'm very close to a 911 myself. But it would be my second 911 and my third Porsche. I've had a deposit in place for a few weeks now . . . 911 Carrera 4S Targa.

    So, I DO understand.

    TagMan
  • dhamiltondhamilton Member Posts: 878
    It's good to see everyone is still around. The changes have been confusing to say the least. Thank's Pat for speaking up and keeping a good thing going....
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