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High End Luxury Cars

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Comments

  • brightness04brightness04 Member Posts: 3,148
    Thanks.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Good post D-man. TMC continues to prove that it can pump out plenty of good 'ol reliable plain vanilla, advertise big, and keep it popular.

    TagMan
  • brightness04brightness04 Member Posts: 3,148
    You wanna analyze the devile in the details? Maybe you should look at BMW's PERFORMANCE ENGINEERING as opposed to Toyota's quality-control engineering.

    Okay, here's the difference between "Performance Engineering" (isn't that just design choice?) vs. QC Engineering: individual AMG and M projects typically cost less than $100 million, some only a few million dollars in R&D cost. Give me $100k (heck even $10k), I can make a typical BMW better performing than it is in stock form; here "performing" meaning handling, BMW's forte; BMW has nothing special when it comes to engine output in the overwhelming majority of its cars or weight reduction. QC engineering on the other hand is an entirely different. Making consistent and reliable cars entails massive capital investment in robotics, running into billions of dollars for a platform, in addition to whatever design choices made related to products. It involves process engineering. You can probably see the vast difference in capital requirement between "tens of million" vs. "billions." A billion is 1000 million not 10 million.

    BTW, I'm not saying BMW is doing it wrong, given the context of its competitive environment. Training workers to accommodate product variation/update is a lot of cheaper than spending billions on acquiring new robots. There is a trade-off however in the end result. This difference in approach also explains why BMW and MB can offer more product variants whereas Toyota/Lexus tend to offer less variants despite having greater volume of sales.

    Poor little BMW quality-control engineers ain't good fuh nuttin'. They only put their money where their mouth is with a 4-year warranty with free maintenance and great lease deals, the latter of which has everyone perplexed

    Warranty and leas subsidies are partly gambles based on the interest rate difference between Euro vs. Dollar donominated debt over the past few years. Some of it is just plain old marketting ploy to defend an artificial MSRP; e.g. there is no way the financing arm itself can make money from a deal that entails 1.5% lease interest rate when the short-term borrowing cost is 5.25% in the US and 3.25% in Eurozone. Warranty and lease subsidies can book "sales" up front, but eventually there will be massive write-offs . . . they always do.

    More Toyota worship and sanctimony.

    Not really. Someone who worships Lexus in HELC would not be mentioning Toyota.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    I hate making unedited posts when I am on the run.

    Apologize for my embarassingly bad anglish

    I erroneously wrote:

    The fact that a such a small company like Jaguar which happens to be owned by a financially trouble parent(Ford) is proof that any auto manufacture can be successful in achieving outstanding reliability and sales service success.

    Correctly I should have written:

    The fact that such a small financially troubled marque like Jaguar( owned by an even more financially troubled Ford) can accomplish such high ratings is proof that any auto manufacture can be successful in achieving outstanding reliability and sales service.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,146
    You might wonder, if you were reading recent posts. Fortunately, members are given a hint with the make/model listing at the top of the page, right after "What is this discussion about?" along with the paragraph defining the topic.

    Let's stick to the vehicles and not engage in brand wars, namecalling, or general manufacturer quality, please. As always, conversation baiting other members is off-limits.

    MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
    Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
    Share your vehicle reviews

  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    I had already given you the benefit of the doubt. ;)

    TagMan
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    OK Pat and Kirstin,

    here is some very HELC focused material:

    This year, just 92 seconds passed before Neiman sold out of its 50 limited-edition 2007 BMW 6 Series convertibles, with a 500-horsepower engine and $139,000 price tag (trip to Germany included) -- the speed and the price set a Neiman record. On Tuesday, Saks sold out of its 20 "Saks Special Edition" CL600 Mercedes-Benz cars for $160,000 apiece within 7 minutes and 45 seconds of the designated 2 p.m. sales time, a spokesperson says.

    SOURCE:WALL STREET JOURNAL

    Individual buyers getting hot over Neiman or Saks branded car? I guess that says quite a lot about the type of individual that buys such a car.

    Personally I prefer the logos M, AMG, S(Audi) or RS especially if that logo is on an authentic M, AMG, S or RS vehicle.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Incredible.
    What!!?? No Lexus and a trip to Tokyo? ;)

    TagMan
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Nope!

    And these 6 Series and CL buyers were not even interested in any MB and BMW lease deals. Imagine that? ;)
  • brightness04brightness04 Member Posts: 3,148
    Jaguar quality did not improve while it was independent. The turn-around took place after Ford take-over. Both Jag and Ford can lose a ton of money in the short term, but so long as Ford has the cash flow, as I mentioned before, and willing to lend that cash flow to support Jag, to the tune of billions (dwarfing the entire revenue from the Jag brand itself), Jag quality should be fine.

    Absolutely agree that sales service is one area even the lower-volume players can really compete on level ground with the higher volume makers. If Ford is committed to Jag, a new XJ can be a very compelling choice among HELC cars.
  • brightness04brightness04 Member Posts: 3,148
    The world would be a much kinder place for MB and BMW if Niemen Marcus and Saks could sell 20,000, not 20, of those cars at those prices. Uniqueness is certainly a good selling point under certain circumstances. Some Ferrari and Lambo models are sold out for years ahead. That does not mean however either Ferrari or Lambo can maintain independence, much less making their cars reliable :-) The last sentence is a joke; do people who get Ferrari and Lambo even care reliability?
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    a new XJ can be a very compelling choice among HELC.

    I completely agree with that post. I have previously posted in great detail here as well as on the Jag forum about the merits of purchasing a Jag XJ, most particularly at that and still this point in time. History will prove this to be one of the best windows in time to acquire a Jaguar XJ.

    At the time I made those detailed posts, the XK had not quite been released yet, but I would now say that the XK appears to be a terrific purchase opportunity, although I would not say that it is quite the same as the XJ opportunity. For what you can get, and the deal that can be made, the XJ can be a steal.

    TagMan
  • 2001gs4302001gs430 Member Posts: 767
    Tag, TMC knows what it's doing to make big $ selling cars ( I could only wish that I already own a big chunk of this company ). I will be more than happy to upgrade my GS to one of the new LS460/600 vanilla in the near future. I am a strong believer that every man/woman should be able to have a minimum of 3 vehicles in his/her garage, one of them should be a luxo cruiser like the LS or the S class that offer absolute comfort to the occupants, the second one should be a sporting machine such as a Corvette or an 911 turbo, and the last choice should be a utility vehicle that can be any thing depending on your needs.
    I have commented on this subject before, that switching between these more "focused" vehicle types would make you appreciate each of them even more. IMO, life is dull if you tried to compromise and stuck with same car every day.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Sounds like my garage.

    I agree with the idea of different TYPES of vehicles. I've posted that in the past, as have others. However, that said, I highly doubt that our individual choices would be the same.

    Closest I can imagine to an all-in-one vehicle would be perhaps an X5 , Range Rover Sport, or a Cayenne.

    TagMan
  • 2001gs4302001gs430 Member Posts: 767
    I highly doubt that our individual choices would be the same.

    Yep we all have our constrains and preferences. My line up that I am currently working on is LS460/600, latest Corvette, Toyota minivan. If my annual earning were a couple hundreds big ones less, the line up would look like this: Camry, Civic Si, and a used Sienna.
    If I won the big lotery then LS460/600 and S550, latest Corvette, 911 Turbo, a Ferrari, and a big hunking SUV that gets 11 mpg. :)
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    1)Back to the future for VW? I guess we will be seeing the same kind of extensive parts sharing between Audi and VW as we have seen in the past.

    The integration of management will see the reduction of wasted investment that was supposedly allowed by former CEO, Bernd Pischetsrieder. Previously, if Audi wanted a new engine, it would develop its own unit and then if Volkswagen wanted a similar product it would build its own from scratch, with each company working autonomously. Under the restructuring plan, development programs would be integrated, which should lead to both a reduction in costs and shorter time to market figures.

    MotorAutohority

    2)Mr. Winterkorn plans to reorganize the company's brands into two groups, these people said -- a premium group made up of Audi, Bentley, Bugatti and Lamborghini, and a so-called volume group of Volkswagen, Skoda and Seat. News of the revamp was previously reported in German magazine Der Spiegel.

    The company currently groups its brands with VW, Skoda, Bentley and Bugatti in the VW group, and Audi, Seat and Lamborghini in the Audi group.


    Doesnt Mr. Winterkorn's arrangement above sound a lot like Ford's disasterous PAG arrangement? Similar to Ford sharing parts/platforms with its luxury cars, VW will increase the amount of sharing between VWs and its luxury marques.

    What I honestly have difficulty understanding is the prior arrangement before this change. How on earth could VW/Skoda be in the very same group as Bentley and Bugatti? And what is even more perplexing is how can Seat be included in the same group as Audis and Lambos? I've driven a Seat in Europe and believe me I was oblivious to any Lambo connection.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    So tell me Adam what is the Motorola of the HELC industry?
    What is the NOkia of the HELC industry?

    If I do need a laptop or phone I will remember your company's name and avoid it at all costs! :mad:
  • Karen_SKaren_S Member Posts: 5,092
    Spammer has been removed. Our apologies for the disruption!
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,327
    Excellent and informative post Brightness. Keep em coming. Most enjoyable.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • brightness04brightness04 Member Posts: 3,148
    Now we know why those "W" engines came about . . . a way of leverage a 4-cyl Skoda engine into a W-16 Bugatti :-) only wish I were joking.
  • brightness04brightness04 Member Posts: 3,148
    Thank you. Have a great weekend!
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Uhh...what kind of financially sound blue-chip automobile company based on conservative business principles gambles with a 4 year/50,000 mile warranty on its vehicles including all regular maintenance?
    No sir. BMW does it to make a statement. Quite a bold one at that. They are letting the world know that they have extreme confidence in the quality control of their vehicles.
    So far after doing this for a few years they are not only still in business, but sales of their vehicles have been going through the roof, making the company very powerful financially. They couldn't be in this position if their cars are falling apart.

    What puzzles me is given the outstanding warranty and subsidized leases (which surely BMW does not have to do), why everybody who can, isn't driving a BMW.

    Instead of making yourself look foolish with incredible, unsubstantiated claims, get yourself and your misinformed supporters to a BMW dealer forthwith, and lease one of these incomparable vehicles while the incredible bargains are still in place.
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    Brightness, your point is that BMW can’t afford to make a car as reliable as Lexus/Toyota, and I say this is unknown and insignificant even if true. BMW’s reliability or lack thereof is no liability. They are successful by means of their own formula, as is Porsche whose net income is 19 percent compared with Toyota’s 7.5 percent. Volume and big doesn’t mean squat. If it did Gallo wine would be served in good restaurants. I’m not sure if it’s even served in bad restaurants…. alright, that's a bit of a wisecrack but the analogy applies to some degree.

    ;-)
  • brightness04brightness04 Member Posts: 3,148
    BMW certainly does have a statement to make, but if you look around, what other companies have been making statements with extra warranties? Hyandai, Kia, Chrysler and GM. MB tried once, but when the bills came due they rescinded the statement. A few years is not nearly long enough a time span to test out a bold new business practice; e.g. lending to marginal borrows have been a booming business in the past few years . . . do you honest believe that's the sort of practices that can survive a full economic cycle?

    That being said, I do agree with you that leasing a BMW on one of those heavily subsidized leases is a decent deal right now, for the consumer! I have gone on record to point out that the included full maitenance of brakes and tires make the deal even sweeter . . . provided:

    (1) one does not drive too much distance, as in any lease;
    (2) small devliance from the design spec, i.e. little bugs here and there, is not a bigger issue for the leaser/driver.
  • brightness04brightness04 Member Posts: 3,148
    Designman, I think I went out my way to point out that BMW is good at maintaining its profit margin, and that, given its production/sales volume, BMW is making the right decision in pursueing a path of somewhat high human labor to robotics ratio . . . Just don't expect products made with high level of direct human participation to have the kind of tight tolerance and finish consistency of products made with high levels of automation. Variants and variation come hand-in-hand. That's all. I just don't buy the argument that BMW can achieve or even should try copying Toyota's quality control.

    Not sure how wine making relates to this. I can set up my own winery for under $10 million. It's been 70+ years since that sort of startup was possible in the auto industry. Modern carmaking takes a lot more economy of scale than most other endeavors.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    I'm saying BMW doesn't have to do it anymore. Their cars are terrific and their quality control at this time can stand with virtually any manufacturer.
    I don't expect the lease subsidies to last, now that BMW quality control has improved. Pretty soon I believe they will be doing what Lexus, Mercedes Benz and Porsche are doing: You want a BMW lease? You will pay and pay and pay!
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    what other companies have been making statements with extra warranties?

    That Range Rover I looked at comes with 4 years of included maintenance.

    Up until '06, Jaguars came with 4-years included maintenance as well.

    TagMan
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Can we find a way to put more emphasis on the cars themselves and less on all the dissections of the manufacturers' actions, reactions and non-actions?
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    Gotcha. We are a happy family here, just casually debating points of view.

    Not sure how wine making relates to this.

    Well, I happen to be swilling a glass and one thought led to another.

    ;-)

    (Oac, get off your friggin' rocking chair.)
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,327
    Well, I guess they have to do something to move these things. I can assure you that they wouldn't be doing this if they would sell on their own merit. Kind of like putting a prize in the Crackerjacks! ;)

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    If my annual earning were a couple hundreds big ones less, the line up would look like this: Camry, Civic Si, and a used Sienna.

    If my business manages to generate a few extra 100k in income I would have a 06 BMW 530xi Touring, a 07 BMW 335i and a 83 MB300D in my garage right now. Based on value there is no SUV alternative that beats the 5 Series Touring. Based on value there is no sport sedan that beats the 335i. Based on value there is no cheaper car to maintain than our MB300D.

    And "if I was a rich man La La La" (Fiddler on the Roof) and my business manages to generate a few millions extra in income my garage would resemble Blkhemi's including that Model T Ford.
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    Pat, what's with the response trail in brackets in the headlines of these posts?
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Pat, what's with the response trail in brackets in the headlines of these posts?

    Instead of closing this forum all our messages are going to be gulped up by brackets! Have you ever seen that movie called the "Brackets". Oops sorry I meant the "Blob".
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    The Blob... LOL. I was also thinking killer bees. It's like I want to whack the monitor with a fly swatter or spray it with RAID.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    For what you can get, and the deal that can be made, the XJ can be a steal.

    Indeed. An '04 XJR is cheaper than a new E350. If I could get past the interior, I probably would buy one.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    I see that sometimes and I don't know what causes it. You can do what I'm doing here - go to the end of the title line and backspace the stuff out of there when you are composing your reply.

    But... if we cannot keep to HIGH END LUXURY CARS (which we are having trouble doing), no telling what kind of bracket blob is going to annihilate all of us! :shades:
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    If I could get past the interior, I probably would buy one.

    There are faults, as with all cars, but, regardless, I love the interior, and the exterior is sensational:

    Here. Just for you:

    image

    image

    image

    image

    Gorgeous. (And on topic) :)

    TagMan
  • garyh1garyh1 Member Posts: 394
    TOKYO — Toyota Motor Corp's Lexus LS460 flagship sedan, which debuted in Japan in September as the high-end lineup of its Lexus premium brand, has won the annual Car of the Year Japan award, the executive committee of the award said Saturday. "The top-quality, comfortable driving performance of the car is one of the highest in the world," the committee said.

    http://www.japantoday.com/jp/news/390904

    A post I saw had this as the full listing if the top 10:

    1. Lexus LS460
    2. Honda Stream
    3. Mazda MPV
    4. Mitsubishi i
    5. Suzuki SX4
    6. Audi TT
    7. Citroen C6
    8. Mercedes-Benz S-Class
    9. Mercedes-Benz E320 CDI
    10. Peugeot 1007
    ">link title
  • esfesf Member Posts: 1,020
    I'm surprised the W221 was so far down the list- beaten by a Honda, a Suzuki, a Mitsubishi??? I know this has nothing to do with what types of cars they are, but frankly, I see the S-Class as a more complete package than the un-compelling, bland-looking LS460 (yes, I've seen it on the road). I guess because it's Japanese...

    '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet • '04 Lexus RX330
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Thanks Garyh1 for that very objective list.

    Unfortunately I was impatient and I bought a car that was rated "2006 World Car of the Year" by an independent panel of auto journalists across the world. If only I had waited a bit longer I could have bought a Lexus LS460 or Mazda MPV instead. Personally I prefer the MPV over the LS460 because of its better cargo and passenger space . :P

    Those thousands of S Class owners in Japan must be kicking themselves and wondering why the heck they didn't buy an LS460 or MPV instead.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Just imagine what kind of flop Casion Royale would be if Bond and his fellow agents and villians were racing around with LS460s, ES350s and Toyota Camrys?

    In movies there is a close link between the car and the character that drives the car. Some cars are driven by Steve McQueen and other cars are driven by Larry David.

    FORD RELEASE:
    FORD CO-STARS IN NEW BOND FILM

    By Daniel Wallace, FCN

    In true Bond style, 007's mode of transportation for most of the movie is an Aston Martin. The luxury automaker is showcasing its newest product, the Aston Martin DBS, a car that captures the elegance of a DB9 and the power of a DBR9 race car.

    It's a role coveted by other automakers. According to Al Uzielli, senior advisor, Ford Global Brand Entertainment, Toyota offered the Broccoli family, owners of the Bond franchise, a multi-million dollar deal to put Bond behind the wheel of Lexus' supercar.

    "The beauty of Aston Martin is that it's such a natural fit for the character," said Uzielli, grandson of Henry Ford II. There's also a long-standing family relationship since Henry Ford II brokered the deal with Albert 'Cubby' Broccoli to showcase the '64½ Ford Mustang convertible in the Goldfinger film.

    From the brand of the liquor Bond drinks to the cars he drives, filmmakers pay close attention to detail, making sure every element is consistent with the setting and is sensible for the film.

    "We're all in a business where we have to be extremely careful in where we take our brands. It just wouldn't seem right to have the consummate British agent drive a Japanese car. Regardless of what the money was, in the long run, it's 'where does that take your brand?'" Uzielli said.

    The Jaguar XJ Sport and XJR and Land Rover Range Rover Sport, also take part in the action -- driven by both Bond and villains in high-speed chase scenes. Bob Witter, manager, Ford Global Brand Entertainment, says Ford has greater room to negotiate because of the wide range of vehicles it can offer through its many brands.

    Romero says product integration gains brand exposure in a way traditional marketing cannot. "Die Another Day," he says, generated more than a billion positive impressions for the company worldwide.

    "If you integrate products into a film that, first of all, make sense with the script and, secondly, work well with the creative, you successfully get your marketing message across. I think movie-goers will find that Ford has a lot to offer," he said.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Those thousands of S Class owners in Japan must be kicking themselves and wondering why the heck they didn't buy an LS460 or MPV instead.

    Oh yeah . . . And now that the Mazda MPV is above an S-Class, we'll have no problem discussing it on this forum. ;)

    Seriously, the award was not a "people's choice award", or any representation of what the Japanese people truly think. It came only from a "committee".

    In fact, the LS460 is a very poor seller in Japan, and is noteably rejected by the Japanese people themselves. Who knows better than the Japanese themselves as to what a Lexus really is? And the vast majority of them continue to say "no thanks".

    In real Japanese life, it is a fact that the BMW and Mercedes are among their most coveted vehicles. Smart, those Japanese, very smart.

    TagMan
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    In fact, the LS460 is a very poor seller in Japan, and is noteably rejected by the Japanese people themselves. Who knows better than the Japanese themselves as to what a Lexus really is? And the vast majority of them continue to say "no thanks".

    The LS has sold in Japan for about 17 years without the Lexus logo. But that in itself should not have hindered LS sales since Toyota has sold other expensive cars in Japan without a Lexus logo.
  • garyh1garyh1 Member Posts: 394
    Thought you folks might find interesting the following highlights from an article in the LA Times 11/15/06:

    In Japan, a Lexus just doesn't have that cachet

    Despite its popularity in the U.S., the Toyota brand faces skeptical consumers at home.


    ... in Japan, most luxury car buyers have eyeballed the Lexus, kicked its tires and said, "Give me something European."

    Germany's Mercedes and BMW are still the luxury cars of choice in Japan. Mercedes, owned by DaimlerChrysler, sold more than 58,000 cars in Japan last year; BMW has delivered 38,400 in the first 10 months of 2006....

    When Lexus made its debut in Japan in September last year, Toyota executives said they expected to sell 50,000 to 60,000 vehicles in the first year. They have sold just half that after more than 14 months on the market.

    "The reality is that, ironically for Toyota, Japan is proving to be a difficult market," said Christopher Richter, an auto industry analyst at CLSA Asia Pacific in Tokyo. "Their difficulty here is that there is greater panache in owning a Mercedes or a BMW. In the U.S., the Lexus is a sensible reward for personal success.

    "But in Japan, people want something that says, 'Hey, I spent stupid money on a car.' "

    Getting that kind of reaction with a Lexus is difficult in Japan, where the name still means Toyota and doesn't generate much of a frisson. Unlike in the U.S., where Toyota established Lexus as an independent premium brand, Lexus models sold in Japan were all previously marketed as Toyotas: the Altezza, the Aristo, the Soarer and the Celsior.

    "Lexus models are just changed models of Toyota cars that didn't sell well in Japan," said Makiteru Ishikawa, an auto industry journalist and a panelist who helps select the prestigious Japan Car of the Year.

    He said Toyota's corporate culture remained too focused on high volumes, failing to understand that premium cars must be exclusive, not just expensive.

    Toyota executives acknowledge that the launch has been slower than hoped.

    "We don't know why they are a little more cautious about buying Japanese for luxury," said Paul Nolasco, a Toyota spokesman in Tokyo. The problem is not that no one knows the Lexus name, he said.

    Toyota's research surveys put Lexus brand awareness at 84% of potential car buyers, about 10 percentage points below BMW and Mercedes but still a high level of penetration.

    The problem is that Lexus is far behind Mercedes when respondents were asked whether the car represented luxury (though it polled roughly the same as BMW in that category)....

    "I know the mechanics of Japanese cars are excellent, but to me, the outside looks are similar to every other Japanese car," said Emi Bamba, 57, who has been driving a Mercedes for the last 20 years.

    She drove a Cadillac before that after she saw how easily her Japanese Mazda was crushed in a traffic accident. "Japanese cars don't make any impact on me," Bamba said.

    That failure is clearly galling to Toyota, which is accustomed to generating mostly happy corporate news. Toyota is not just the world's most profitable auto manufacturer. It is in the passing lane preparing to overtake General Motors Corp. as the world's largest seller of cars.

    With its pioneering hybrid cars, Toyota continues to swipe market share from Detroit's automakers and saw its profit soar to $3.44 billion in the last fiscal quarter alone.

    Toyota's Nolasco said the news wasn't all bad. Sales of Lexus' IS and GS sedan series have captured nearly one-third of the market against the Mercedes and BMW brands they compete against, he said. And in September, Toyota added the LS460 to the lineup, selling 12,000 of its most extravagant model so far.

    Toyota's competitors aren't about to gloat — publicly, at least.

    "A Lexus is essentially a Toyota in the minds of Japanese consumers, and Toyota focused for decades on serving a mass market, so the Japanese see Toyotas as a mass product," said Yuchiro Ito, a spokesman for BMW Japan. "But Toyota is extremely serious about developing a serious product, and once they have put the Lexus models through a full cycle of changes, the real battle will begin."...

    "The people buying Lexus now tend to be small company owners who live in small towns," said auto journalist Ishikawa, who says most Lexus drivers are over 40. "They don't want to be regarded as rich or rumored to have made money by doing something wrong. And small company presidents whose businesses deal with Toyota only buy Toyota cars, even if they have the money to buy Mercedes or BMW."

    Nolasco said Toyota could generate buzz for the Lexus with changes in design and styling. And the Lexus LS460 has features aimed at anticipating the needs of drivers and passengers, such as infrared sensors that read body temperatures and then provide each rider with individually attuned climate control.

    But critics like Ishikawa say Toyota needs to think about the driving experience. He drove the LS460 and found it flawless. "It ran fast, powerful and safe," he said. But there was a deficit in the pizazz department.

    "There is no characteristic that brings pleasure in owning it or a feeling that it is fun to drive," he said. "If cars can be said to represent the national culture, then Toyota Lexus is the car that represents Japan.

    "It is a straight-A student."


    LA Times
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    I heard there were protests against Daniel Craig as the new James Bond. One of the reasons was because he couldn't drive the stick shift Aston Martin. Imagine that, a James Bond who can't drive stick? Wussup with that, Dewey? I wonder where we'd be today if John Wayne and Clint Eastwood couldn't ride a horse.

    A stick, a stick, my kingdom for a stick!! (I'm getting a little carried away here.)

    ;-)
  • 2001gs4302001gs430 Member Posts: 767
    That is a beautiful looking vehicle, but I have to agree with LG on the look of interior.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    I heard there were protests against Daniel Craig as the new James Bond. One of the reasons was because he couldn't drive the stick shift Aston Martin. Imagine that, a James Bond who can't drive stick?

    I don't believe that for a split second. Hollywood hype is as rampant as always.

    TagMan
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    That is a beautiful looking vehicle, but I have to agree with LG on the look of interior.

    The interior is not without faults, and the S-Class interior is nicer, IMO. It is not seriously flawed, however, and that said, it is a minor weakness considering the scope of the entire vehicle The new gorgeous XK has almost the same interior layout but has essentially improved the one distinctive weakness which is the "hood" over the central navigation, audio and climate control touch-screen. Beyond that, I am quite fine with it, and I do believe that you are right on the money when you say it is a beautiful looking vehicle.

    TagMan
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    Well I heard the rumor and your disbelief motivated me to google it. As it turns out, it was indeed a rumor.
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    The Jets/Bears game just barely got started and Lexus already showed three separate LS ads. The first two promoed the parking gizmo and the third promoed the 8-speed transmission.
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